Why conspiracies?

[McLaren]

Why? Why do the people of the US and the world continue to think events like 9/11 are conspiracys? Are these people just government haters, and use these as a way to backlash against the Gov.? They've been proven wrong on so many issues, yet why do they continue to fight?

Look at Moore. He's made the most ridiculous movies, such as the one Bowling for Columbine. How? How can these people think events in which people die are just planned? I always ask these when people bring these up. They like to reply, "Because we need oil!" or "Because it's the Gov. man!" So, this is all fake just so we can get oil even though oil recently went down? Why can't these conspiracies link sources?

And here's one to think about:
Why? What can you possibly get out of proving the Government plans events? And how? How can you even think of such a thing? How could you even think people dieing of major events like Columbine are planned? Shouldn't these be times of mourning and finding out why they were killed, not trying to prove the government did it or video games did it?

Why even suggest these? What gives the info? And why do you continue to fight the battle when your info is disproven? Why bull**** us with stupid theories you know can be disproven.

I know, I know, a bunch of questions, but think about them.

NOTE: Do not state conspiracies of 9/11 or the such. This is not about disproving or proving them.

 

[wfooshee]

It's gullibility. People hear something quasi-plausible, they buy into it. Ignorance (lack of education, not stupidity) helps the purveyor of theory here. How about that May 25th comet guy? Or my personal favorite, the folks that think contrails are chemical sprays? I was introduced to that by a neighbor across the street. I thought he was joking, but he convinced me he was serious. No amount of explaining could convince him that aside from CO and CO2, a major part of the exhaust's chemical makeup was water vapor. Condenses and makes a little cloud right behind the heat source. NOPE! It's poison spray!

I myself am slightly guilty of spreading a falsehood about a government operation, taking advantage of the gullibility of the unlearned. Back in high school while working at a tourist processor on the local beach, kids would ask us about the Navy helicopters flying low along the beach. I noticed that the jet exhaust was visibly being blown down by the rotorwash, so I said they were spraying for sharks. Kids get big eyes, go running to mom and dad, spreading the story. What the choppers were actually doing was testing a tow sled designed for minesweeping operations, requiring slow, low-altitude flight.

 

[guska]

Well, while I would call myself a conspiracy theorist, I do however lend a certain amount of belief in a few, but not all, or even most, of the conspiracy theories out there. Do I think that the us government planned the attack on the trade towers? no i don't, do I believe that the us governmnent attacked the pentagon, yes I do, the evidence is too strong, and the frames released show nothing. i do however believe that the us government ALLOWED the attacks on the twin towers.

Anyway, this is getting off topic.

IMHO, While ignorance does have a bearing on some of the more 'outlandish' claims, I think that it is the opposite for the deeper, and semi-proven claims, in that people are OVER-educated about it, whether by the government, or by people who pass their theories off as fact. The simple fact is, people are going to be suspicious, it is human nature, and when the government is so secretive about an event, then that suspicion is going to be directed in their direction.

Having said that, I must comment that the united states government has not done a great deal to try to disprove the main theories out there surrounding 9/11 and the war on Iraq.



The gOoSe is out there...

 

[McLaren]

Well, while I would call myself a conspiracy theorist, I do however lend a certain amount of belief in a few, but not all, or even most, of the conspiracy theories out there. Do I think that the us government planned the attack on the trade towers? no i don't, do I believe that the us governmnent attacked the pentagon, yes I do, the evidence is too strong, and the frames released show nothing. i do however believe that the us government ALLOWED the attacks on the twin towers.

Anyway, this is getting off topic.

IMHO, While ignorance does have a bearing on some of the more 'outlandish' claims, I think that it is the opposite for the deeper, and semi-proven claims, in that people are OVER-educated about it, whether by the government, or by people who pass their theories off as fact. The simple fact is, people are going to be suspicious, it is human nature, and when the government is so secretive about an event, then that suspicion is going to be directed in their direction.

Having said that, I must comment that the united states government has not done a great deal to try to disprove the main theories out there surrounding 9/11 and the war on Iraq.



The gOoSe is out there...

True, the government hasn't, but the people have.

 

[guska]

True, the government hasn't, but the people have.

True, but until the government takes some positive action to disprove these theories, the people that disprove them aren't going to be listened to in the right light. The government hasn't even come out in support of the dis-provers, which to me speaks volumes.

 

[McLaren]

They have, but not in the way that people want. The government only denies certain things, and that's all they need to do. There have been people who have done so much research that they pretty much answer the questions.

 

[YSSMAN]

1) People are stupid
2) Often times, stupid people hate the government, business, etc
3) Stupid people often don't have jobs, like to get drunk, and with nothing better to do, come up with stupid ideas about stupid stuff...

People find satisfaction in knowing that the government is corrupt and looking to hurt their own citizens, but the reasoning is well beyond my comprehension. It often happens because the people don't agree with what is going on with the government, or are too high to completely comprehend what is going on...

My economics professor used to suggest quite often that 9/11 was purposely done as a secret pact between the Bush Administration and the Bin-Laden family so that both could make millions through millitary contracts for the war.

...But he is off his rocker, and an insane Socialist Liberal...

 

[Keef]

Good one YSSMAN. That's all I got. I've heard you talk about your professor before too. That's funny. Anyhow, I don't think anyone except these comspirators who wrote boks and stuff made any money off the war, or any war for that matter. Yes, I know, we made a pact and we made millions collabrating with Bin Laden. That explains why we lost billions investng in this war. What? That made no sense. I guess it's impossible to think like a conspirator when you aren't one.

 

[s0nny80y]

it's a matter of national security for the government to keep certain things/events secret. although i wouldn't want to believe any conspiracies to be true, it's hard to believe that the gov't doesn't have any (secrets).

 

[Famine]

Blaming someone else, who is also invisible and Gestalt, for all problems absolves you from having to take any responsibility for yourself. You're not unemployed/poor/ill (note: I'm not talking about ALL unemployed/poor/ill people, but the conspiracy theorist ones) because you're useless, but because "The Man" wants to keep you down. And you're fightin' against The Man, which gives you a cause as well.

 

[guska]

That explains why we lost billions investng in this war. What? That made no sense.

And what about the billions that the US stand to gain from the oil reserves?

 

[the Interceptor]

There is a general problem with conspiracy theories - there are only two main partys:

1) the ones that see a conspiracy under every rock and think that the whole world is run by 5 people that meet in a secret room every week

2) the ones that say it's all a load of c**p, and that the people that see a conspiracy everywhere are plain stupid and have no job

There's pretty much nothing inbetween. However, I'm with gOoSeTeR on this one, so I ask a simple question: The US government has footage of the plane that crashed into the pentagon on 9/11. Why don't they release it? The investigation was finished a long time ago, and we all know the plane crashed into the building. With releasing those tapes, they could silence all the 9/11 conspiracy guys with one blow. But they don't, and I just don't get that.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[a6m5]

Wow. I'm little bit shocked. I don't belive the 9/11 to be a some kind of conspiracy, I don't know much about it. But I have no doubt in my mind there's been countless conspiracies in our history.

2 of the biggest, most controversial conspiracies I believe in are the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and the JFK assassination. On the Pearl Harbor, I believe that there were so many obvious signs pointing to the attack, there was no way that the U.S. didn't know it was coming. On JFK, Oswald had ties with the Soviets, U.S. intelligence. And the witnesses and evidences at the crime scene suggests that it is unlikely Oswald carried this assassination alone, if at all.

P.S. On the subject of oil, I think there is a reason why the U.S. is investing so much in Israel and Middle East. This is not as simple as U.S. goes to Iraq to take oil. I look at it more like securing the source. I've always said, I wish U.S. showed this kind of enthusiasm and effort in Africa, where much bigger tragedy is. If Africa started pumping out more oil than Mid East today, do you think the U.S. will show slightly more interest in dealing with the warlords there?.

Edit:
Also, there seems to be a lot of American civilian contractors working in Iraq as well. Construction is the oldest way to rip people off(in modern history ). I wonder how much American companies are making from the "rebuilding" efforts in Iraq. I'm guessing in billions.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

And what about the billions that the US stand to gain from the oil reserves?

well, they certainly can't do it publicly. And with all eyes on them, it'll be very difficult to keep a secret. this is one theory I've outright mocked from the beginning.

I believe some of these conspiracy theorys, just not many. most I think are some of the stupidest concoctions of CRAP ever cooked up, by stoners, usually, stoners that think they're incredibly smart. weed=brain=no. (not that I never touch it)

Gooseter this is in no way an attack on you, as I have no idea if you believe in that theory, and the second half is just my seperate opinion on the subject at hand

 

[guska]

well, they certainly can't do it publicly. And with all eyes on them, it'll be very difficult to keep a secret. this is one theory I've outright mocked from the beginning.

I believe some of these conspiracy theorys, just not many. most I think are some of the stupidest concoctions of CRAP ever cooked up, by stoners, usually, stoners that think they're incredibly smart. weed=brain=no. (not that I never touch it)

Gooseter this is in no way an attack on you, as I have no idea if you believe in that theory, and the second half is just my seperate opinion on the subject at hand

I wasn't saying that the only reason for the invasion of Iraq was oil, certainly Saddam did need to be removed, I am under no illusions as to the reasons for the invasion. However I can also see that the US economy, not the government as I wrongly stated in my previous post, will take a boost from the action. Companies that make armaments, oil companies in the long run, as as previously stated, construction firms, among others stand to make huge profits in the aftermath of the war. While not exactly a conspiracy in the true meaning, but still something that the US government, and all governments involved (including the UK and Australia) for that matter, must have taken into account when planning the attacks.

Of course these profits will be well hidden, and wouldn't be direct profit, but in the end, as with any action of this kind, the invading country will come out of it better off, otherwise what is the point of going in? Sure, the people of Iraq were in dire need of help, but as has been said in this thread, so do the people of africa, and quite a few regions of europe and south america. Why aren't the larger nations of the world helping them? Simple, no profit!

These are simply my opinions, and are not intended to offend anyone here, I am simply stating the facts AS I SEE THEM, and I am open to others' opinions.

gOoSe

 

[Speedy Samurai]

Where there is smoke, sometimes there is fire.

 

[Duke]

Where there is smoke, sometimes there is fire.

But most times, there is just a belligerent misanthrope with a chip on his shoulder, blowing a lot of smoke.

Having said that, I must comment that the united states government has not done a great deal to try to disprove the main theories out there surrounding 9/11 and the war on Iraq.

What do you mean, "not a great deal"...? What about publishing the telephone-book-sized 9/11 Commission Report? That pretty much spelled out the disproof, chapter and verse. Of course, the Conspiracy Crowd simply dismissed it as government propoganda. So you hand someone a huge, detailed report stating how it was orchestrated by a terrorist network, how the buildings collapsed, and what happened on the fourth airplane... and they completely blow it off in favor or a 5-second sound bite of Silverstein saying "let's pull it", a vague idea about stealing oil, and someone who knows someone who says he saw a cruise missle hit the Pentagon.

Please explain how 'the government' is going to prove anything to these people.

Why do people conspiracize? For a lot of reasons.

They do it because it gives them a reason to feel disenfrachised. It also gives them an excuse to feel superior to all the 'sheep' who blindly follow the shepherd. Automatically rebelling against the status quo gives one an instant identity that is separate from the mainstream, without having to actually generate it yourself. It's an easy, off-the-rack method of making you stand out from the crowd.

Plus, it frees you from the necessity of succeeding on your own lights. You never have to blame yourself. If the rich and powerful are keeping you poor and weak, what's a downtrodden prole to do? Or, conversely, what's an over-educated intellectual with no marketable life skills to do?

So it becomes easy to believe - and to evangelize - that the Government or the Military-Industrial Complex or Big Oil or Big Tobacco or even just Big Fat Rich White Guys are stealing the world blind and getting away with murder, literally.

 

[guska]

What do you mean, "not a great deal"...? What about publishing the telephone-book-sized 9/11 Commission Report? That pretty much spelled out the disproof, chapter and verse.

I have not read said "9/11 Commission Report", is it available for the general public to read? Honestly, I would like to read it, no bull****.

As for the cruise missile part, that could be disproven by simply releasing the video footage, the still frames certainly don't show a passenger jet, and what they DO show is something that LOOKS like the nose of a missile, although it COULD be a radar antenna on the front of the jet. All this could be explained by releasing the entire videos, as videos, and not a few still shots.

As for stealing oil, that was never really brought up, all I was saying is that there is the POTENTIAL for huge profits to be made from the oil reserves in Iraq.

Lastly, As I have already said, I have no doubt that the planes flying into the buildings were an act of an organised terrorist organisation. However what I fail to understand, although am open to suggestions, is what the small explosions further down the towers were caused by. I know that the official word is that it was gas bottles in the kitchens, however it has also been revealed that the kitchens weren't gas (as far as I understand).

Another thing, at what point does a group of p*ssed off rebels turn into terrorists? What are the criteria for becoming a terrorist? Are there any prerequisites?

gOoSe

 

[Duke]

I have not read said "9/11 Commission Report", is it available for the general public to read? Honestly, I would like to read it, no bull****.

I believe it is, though I'm not sure where. It was released publically AFAIK.

the still frames certainly don't show a passenger jet, and what they DO show is something that LOOKS like the nose of a missile, although it COULD be a radar antenna on the front of the jet.

This is actually taken from a semi-conspriacy site, but they stole the image itself from a debunking site.

As for stealing oil, that was never really brought up, all I was saying is that there is the POTENTIAL for huge profits to be made from the oil reserves in Iraq.

I'm not specifically saying you mentioned stealing oil; that's just a typical Conspiracy party line.

However what I fail to understand, although am open to suggestions, is what the small explosions further down the towers were caused by. I know that the official word is that it was gas bottles in the kitchens, however it has also been revealed that the kitchens weren't gas (as far as I understand).

There aren't any small explosions farther down until the building begins to progressively pancake its floors. And those are caused by the air pressure spike of each floor as it is squashed by the floor above. But really, this is not supposed to be discussed in this thread: look up any of the 'Loose Change' threads to read my explanations.

Another thing, at what point does a group of p*ssed off rebels turn into terrorists? What are the criteria for becoming a terrorist? Are there any prerequisites?

As soon as they specifically target civillians because they are civillians, they become terrorists.

 

[Danoff]

Here's my answer:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2212763&postcount=105

 

[guska]

I believe it is, though I'm not sure where. It was released publically AFAIK.

Here is the link for anyone who is interested

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html

This is actually taken from a semi-conspriacy site, but they stole the image itself from a debunking site.

Personally I don't see how this proves or disproves anything, it is a computer edited image, that could have been edited to support either side.

There aren't any small explosions farther down until the building begins to progressively pancake its floors. And those are caused by the air pressure spike of each floor as it is squashed by the floor above. But really, this is not supposed to be discussed in this thread: look up any of the 'Loose Change' threads to read my explanations.

I have re-watched the footage, since reading this, and the Interceptor's PMs, and I must agree, that it certainly does look like debris being blown out due to air pressure, as there is no flash of an explosion.

As soon as they specifically target civillians because they are civillians, they become terrorists.

Fair enough, I see where you are coming from with that.

Anyway, back on topic, the Conspiracy theorists grasp these ideas, through misunderstanding, and lack of information (as I have shown quite clearly in this thread), however, since the full truth may never be known (bear with me), and as long as the main instigators of these theories and the 'official word' disagree, then there will always be conpiracy theories.

Seriously, you can't blame people for being sceptical about what their governments tell them, as there are plenty of precidents set for governments betraying it's people.

gOoSe

 

[YSSMAN]

I have not read said "9/11 Commission Report", is it available for the general public to read? Honestly, I would like to read it, no bull****.

Check out Amazon.com for the book, as it can be purchased at any bookstore that carries it worldwide...

As for the cruise missile part, that could be disproven by simply releasing the video footage, the still frames certainly don't show a passenger jet, and what they DO show is something that LOOKS like the nose of a missile, although it COULD be a radar antenna on the front of the jet. All this could be explained by releasing the entire videos, as videos, and not a few still shots.

The Pentagon released the footage like what, two months ago? It only appears to be in stills because the camera (a camera for the parking lot) runs every couple of frames, not at the regular 24 fps. So baisically, we never see the entire plane in the frame, only the nose and then the explosion.

 

[guska]

The Pentagon released the footage like what, two months ago? It only appears to be in stills because the camera (a camera for the parking lot) runs every couple of frames, not at the regular 24 fps. So baisically, we never see the entire plane in the frame, only the nose and then the explosion.

I relise that the footage was released 2 months ago, that wasn't the issue. There are a number of cameras that show the area, as well as amature footage, surely there is a shot of the entire craft, whatever it may be.

 

[the Interceptor]

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html

About the Pentagon footage: as far as I know, there should be several videos from other buildings around. Or was that a misinformation as well?

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[guska]

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html

About the Pentagon footage: as far as I know, there should be several videos from other buildings around. Or was that a misinformation as well?

Regards
the Interceptor

Ones I can think of off hand that have been mentioned

- A highway monitoring camera that has a view of the area in question

- the Pentagon security cameras themselves

- I have heard reports of amature videos being siezed by government officials shortly after the impact

 

[McLaren]

But the thing is you don't need a video. Why have an unclear video when there are photographs of the plane's parts? The wheels, the engine, and what not? I'm not trying to start a debate to debunk everything, I'm just asking why settle for a video when you can have photos? As they say, "Take a picture, it'll last longer."

EDIT: Anyways, I see Duke nailed it exactly, as well as gOoSeTeR on them trying to seem smart.
the Interceptor, thank you for the link. I'm sure it'll come in handy with some of the local rebels here.

 

[guska]

But the thing is you don't need a video. Why have an unclear video when there are photographs of the plane's parts? The wheels, the engine, and what not?

Then how come a boeing official has publicly come forward and stated beyond a shadow of a doubt that that engine is not from any boeing plane?

 

[Duke]

Then how come a boeing official has publicly come forward and stated beyond a shadow of a doubt that that engine is not from any boeing plane?

Please show us where this was issued. BUT:

Please do it in one of the LOOSE CHANGE threads, not here. The topic here is not the specifics of a 9/11 conspiracy; it is about the idea of conspiracy in general.

 

[McLaren]

EDITED. Duke is correct. I didn't want any proving or disproving and I almost started to do it.

 

[guska]

Sorry, I got a little off topic.

I think I have said all there is for me to say about conspiracies.