Why doesn`t PD get the credit they deserve from Sony?

[obsessive rules]

@another_jakhole: last DLC pack was released at mid January, almost 5 months ago. Turn10 released 90 cars in the same period of time.

I call that bombshell marketing. You can churn out 70, oh let's say, cars a minutes like Audi do. Or, as pagani do, spend ages perfecting it to make it the ultimate car. I prefer time spent on stuff.

Other example gt86/fr-s/brZ.

 

[Mac K]

Hey guys, I brought this dead horse, want to help me beat it?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I aggree with you, but I just try to see it from PD/Sony point of view. Each GT gamer they loose to the FM series could mean one console less sold.
Actually they already have a very close relationsship with Nissan, so its more or less impossible.

I'd rather they work on providing a better game experience overall than resorting to holding marques hostage to lure potential buyers.

But let me dream on:
For example, if PD get a exclusive deal with Ferrari/Fiat (like when a new model releases, selling it as DLC with other special Ferraris, novitec rosso tuned ones etc.) which also prohibits other studios to use those cars, it would be a major deciding factor for the PS4.

...and imagine if that started a trend where all racing games started poaching exclusive deals. Where we would no longer be able to enjoy the fantastic brand availability we have now, and the marques available would be a much higher priority when deciding on a purchase. I don't see that as a good thing at all.

I know alot of people who choose Shift2 above GT5 because of the strange Porsche deal.

I know a lot people who boycotted EA games when the news first broke of them denying T10 access to Porsche for FM4. I think we all agree the EA/Porsche deal is bad for racing games as a whole: it'd be the same situation if it was, say, a PD/Ferrari deal.

I call that bombshell marketing. You can churn out 70, oh let's say, cars a minutes like Audi do. Or, as pagani do, spend ages perfecting it to make it the ultimate car. I prefer time spent on stuff.

Other example gt86/fr-s/brZ.

So which is the Pagani in this particular comparison? A pack of Touring Car versions of cars already in the game, a year after release? A pack of four, one of which was already available, though in PS2 quality form?

Outsourcing for modeling is something Sony should seriously look into for PD. I fully understand the concern about quality, but as long as the final work has to pass through PD's modellers for final QA, there shouldn't be a noticeable drop in quality. Of course, if PD is already expanding its modeling team, that's great too, as modeling seems to be the big time-suck.

 

[avens]

I call that bombshell marketing. You can churn out 70, oh let's say, cars a minutes like Audi do. Or, as pagani do, spend ages perfecting it to make it the ultimate car. I prefer time spent on stuff.

Other example gt86/fr-s/brZ.

Those 90 cars have way better sound samples than every single GT5 car, and better modelling and handling than all standards and most premiums.

What I'd call bombshell marketing is saying GT5 has 1100 cars, whereas in reality it's about 150 unique premiums.

and pagani is not the greatest example as they released 999999 versions of the zonda, a car that underperforms badly in comparison to other cars of the same price, can't be driven in the city (no idea how it is street legal) and has serious reliability issues. But I get the point.

 

[JDMKING13]

Those 90 cars have way better sound samples than every single GT5 car, and better modelling and handling than all standards and most premiums.

What I'd call bombshell marketing is saying GT5 has 1100 cars, whereas in reality it's about 150 unique premiums.

and pagani is not the greatest example as they released 999999 versions of the zonda, a car that underperforms badly in comparison to other cars of the same price, can't be driven in the city (no idea how it is street legal) and has serious reliability issues. But I get the point.

You are going way over board in my opinion. At least you could say in your opinion. The problem with many people is they want one company to do it a certain way another company does it in in the end it's not fair. Turn 10 has been doing this DLC thing for along time this is what they do. I don't want any outsourcing from the PD team take your time and do it right so we never have to go through this again.

 

[carracerptp]

Outsourcing for modeling is something Sony should seriously look into for PD. I fully understand the concern about quality, but as long as the final work has to pass through PD's modellers for final QA, there shouldn't be a noticeable drop in quality. Of course, if PD is already expanding its modeling team, that's great too, as modeling seems to be the big time-suck.

I do freelance modeling/rendering and I would say YES and NO too that.

It all depends on the accuracy need.

For a simple background object (house, people, tree, skybox, etc.), outsourcing is a great choice.

But if you're working on a hero character (in this case, it would be the cars), outsourcing becomes riskier because the company loses control.

I would think PD has already used some sort of outside help before.

 

[disneyland5]

Those 90 cars have way better sound samples than every single GT5 car, and better modelling and handling than all standards and most premiums.

What I'd call bombshell marketing is saying GT5 has 1100 cars, whereas in reality it's about 150 unique premiums.

and pagani is not the greatest example as they released 999999 versions of the zonda, a car that underperforms badly in comparison to other cars of the same price, can't be driven in the city (no idea how it is street legal) and has serious reliability issues. But I get the point.

As much as I like GT5, I have to admit this is true. Forza 4 has all the hottest cars and lots of them with still great quality(especially the sounds). The solution I think is to hire alot more employees in PD so it can be a much better game.

 

[cuco33]

You are going way over board in my opinion. At least you could say in your opinion. The problem with many people is they want one company to do it a certain way another company does it in in the end it's not fair. Turn 10 has been doing this DLC thing for along time this is what they do. I don't want any outsourcing from the PD team take your time and do it right so we never have to go through this again.

Regarding sounds, I don't think he's going way over board, but that's your opinion. The sounds in GT5 are crap compared to FM4. Hell, I think FM2 sounded more realistic than like 99% of what I've heard in GT5. I do have a few cars that I like the sound of (pre whatever patches that changed most of them) but they don't sound like the cars. The ZR1 RM and very powerful Camaro sounded great but neither sound like the real thing would sound like.
I mean a VR6 equipped VW in Forza has the VR snarl. The VTEC sounds at high RPM. The high boost cars sound as they should. The vettes, although lacking the ear shattering and shear ballsiness bass to them still sound like vettes, even modified. But the vast majority of cars in GT5 sound like a digital blender had a baby with a digital vacuum cleaner. The crashing bumps are horrible. The tire squeals you can't make anything out of it. This isn't saying that FM4 does it dead right 100% of the time, they just do it significantly better than GT5. In FM4, I think they added more 'hollywood' effect with the crashing sounds and upped the engine volume on many of the stock cars but I'd rather want that then the same vacuum sound. I think the only thing in GT5 that I've experienced which sounds realistic is the 787B at idle, but it was rather low sounding in my book.

Regarding modeling, PD's premiums are 1 step above T10's but to be honest many of it is wasted. Like I really don't car that the back seat stitching is modeled in. Premium cockpits do look like they are modeled better, as do the overall cars. And I wouldn't mind if PD grew their team or outsourced work and still kept a high level of quality. Keeping everything in house and refusing to outsource is a mixture of arrogance and stupidity. PD's loss really in terms of sales, as is the gamers' who want more, like me.

Regarding driving is a different story... That comes down to the game's physics and the data in which is put in. Just look at the VW Beetle premium DLC which weighed heavier than the real thing.
And it doesn't stop there... PD taking their time still resulted in an Audi R8 having the wrong engine in their model, patched now but patched in well over a year post launch.

Just my 2 cents

 

[JDMKING13]

Regarding sounds, I don't think he's going way over board, but that's your opinion. The sounds in GT5 are crap compared to FM4. Hell, I think FM2 sounded more realistic than like 99% of what I've heard in GT5. I do have a few cars that I like the sound of (pre whatever patches that changed most of them) but they don't sound like the cars. The ZR1 RM and very powerful Camaro sounded great but neither sound like the real thing would sound like.
I mean a VR6 equipped VW in Forza has the VR snarl. The VTEC sounds at high RPM. The high boost cars sound as they should. The vettes, although lacking the ear shattering and shear ballsiness bass to them still sound like vettes, even modified. But the vast majority of cars in GT5 sound like a digital blender had a baby with a digital vacuum cleaner. The crashing bumps are horrible. The tire squeals you can't make anything out of it. This isn't saying that FM4 does it dead right 100% of the time, they just do it significantly better than GT5. In FM4, I think they added more 'hollywood' effect with the crashing sounds and upped the engine volume on many of the stock cars but I'd rather want that then the same vacuum sound. I think the only thing in GT5 that I've experienced which sounds realistic is the 787B at idle, but it was rather low sounding in my book.

Regarding modeling, PD's premiums are 1 step above T10's but to be honest many of it is wasted. Like I really don't car that the back seat stitching is modeled in. Premium cockpits do look like they are modeled better, as do the overall cars. And I wouldn't mind if PD grew their team or outsourced work and still kept a high level of quality. Keeping everything in house and refusing to outsource is a mixture of arrogance and stupidity. PD's loss really in terms of sales, as is the gamers' who want more, like me.

Regarding driving is a different story... That comes down to the game's physics and the data in which is put in. Just look at the VW Beetle premium DLC which weighed heavier than the real thing.
And it doesn't stop there... PD taking their time still resulted in an Audi R8 having the wrong engine in their model, patched now but patched in well over a year post launch.

Just my 2 cents

Everything you said was cool, but in the end it's your opinion. You said you don't care for back seats but I do makes me feel as If in a a real car. Also In Forza every driver has red belts that are stitched on his racing suit while in GT5 their are real seats belts something else I like a lot. You love FM sound that's cool, but as a whole I will like GT5 sound overall In the end it's all down to one taste. What I see is PD having to start from scratch and I think they did a great job with GT5 regarding that. I mean weather night to day transition track creator Exhaust visuals for all premiums etc. Many people think PD is behind right now, but in my opinion they took the hit with GT5 and everything is going to be uphill from now on. They have the foundation, now they just have to keep building I expect GT6 to be on another level.

 

[another_jakhole]

That's just not right. Get out of my head ^^^

 

[JDMKING13]

That's just not right. Get out of my head ^^^

👍 I can't wait dude!

 

[1241Penguin]

You are going way over board in my opinion. At least you could say in your opinion. The problem with many people is they want one company to do it a certain way another company does it in in the end it's not fair. Turn 10 has been doing this DLC thing for along time this is what they do. I don't want any outsourcing from the PD team take your time and do it right so we never have to go through this again.

I don't see what's wrong with outsourcing? In the end, as long as it meets the level of PD's "own" Premiums, then I'm fine with that.

 

[DGXR]

Sony does not market Gran Turismo to consumers for the same reason Chevrolet/GM does not market the Corvette to consumers... it sells itself and there is no need. QED

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I call that bombshell marketing. You can churn out 70, oh let's say, cars a minutes like Audi do. Or, as pagani do, spend ages perfecting it to make it the ultimate car. I prefer time spent on stuff.

Other example gt86/fr-s/brZ.

Pagani don't do it because of the reason you give, also Audi make quallity cars that realistically are brilliant for the purpose. To compare a hypercar company to a big manufacture, and thus use it to make a point is that much worse.

You can make excuses all you want, but at the end of the day it works.

Also Mac why not contribute instead of just nit picking and quickly casting stones.

You are going way over board in my opinion. At least you could say in your opinion. The problem with many people is they want one company to do it a certain way another company does it in in the end it's not fair. Turn 10 has been doing this DLC thing for along time this is what they do. I don't want any outsourcing from the PD team take your time and do it right so we never have to go through this again.

That's wrong though, the fact is T10 actually use the true car sound and does use a digitalized model with frequency tweaks. Hence why cars in GT end up sounding the same and not all too unique, this has been documented by people in this thread on similar threads.

Go through what? It's due to being stubborn that PD had this issue in the first place, not outsourcing. Also they clearly don't have the time to do this, if it took nearly 5 years to do 200 premium plus the DLC, then the 800-900 cars that are standard would take another 20 years at that rate.

 

[Samus]

I call that bombshell marketing. You can churn out 70, oh let's say, cars a minutes like Audi do. Or, as pagani do, spend ages perfecting it to make it the ultimate car. I prefer time spent on stuff.

Other example gt86/fr-s/brZ.

That as usual makes no sense. Audi are a huge vehicle manufacturer that aim to create cars for several different markets. Pagani are a niche manufacturer that makes one type of car for a tiny part of the market. Except for the fact they both make cars they are not an equal whatsoever. Audi can't afford to spend years modelling one car and Pagani can't afford to make 6 entirely different models a year.

PD and T10 on the other hand, when it comes to modelling virtual cars are equal they've got the same goal.

 

[sikbeta]

I always asked this myself.

The Gran Turismo franchise is the by far best selling playstation franchise out there. Just few stats:

Gran Turismo 5 (7.43 million) (Best Selling PS3 game)
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (5.34 million) (2nd best selling PS3 game)
Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec (14.89 million) (2nd best selling PS2 game, IIRC the PS2 sales went up alot when this game released, like a second launch)
Gran Turismo 4 (11.44 million) (3rd best selling PS2 game)
Gran Turismo (10.85 million shipped) (Best selling PS1 game)
Gran Turismo 2 (9.37 million shipped) (3rd best selling PS1 game)

Each game has been a huge success, but why is it that Sony doesn`t advertise GT as much as games like Uncharted or God of War or doesn`t supports PD the way they deserve, with more ressources so they can keep up with T10 which have way more people working on the Forza games. Also, I can`t stand how much praise they give to Quantic Dream whichs only little success was Heavy Rain (A story driven game full of plotholes), while PD doesn`t even get mentioned at the E3.

This really bugs me and after GT5, which was released unfinished, I fear that PD will loose many customers if Sony doesn`t invest alot into the marketing and development of GT6.

GT is big enough, well known, proved franchise, hence, advertising Uncharted more than GT5, and Sony was pretty much useless when it comes to advertising this gen anyway

Every Dev Studio work as a different entity from their "sister" studios, but also share information and tech based on their game engines, PD and Kaz are organized by themselves, IF they want more people, they hire, they closed themselves and didn't receive help from other first party studios, Kaz explained that and said it's not going to happen again

All Devs Teams respond to the President of SCEWWS, who is the one that greenlight projects, appoves games or make them release at soon as possible, the one who approved Vanilla GT5 released in 2010 that everyone complained so much

Most of SCE Studios are "tiny" in comparison to other development studios, it said that currently 600 employees at Capcom are working on Resident Evil 6 (just 1 game ), Uncharted Series is made by a groupp of 90 people and that's the last number known after their expansion, now they have 2 teams, PD is about less than 150, but I'm sure that IF they wanted more, they could ask founds to expand themselves, they sure know how to handle their budget 👍

 

[obsessive rules]

Yknow what. Goodbye.

 

[Tenacious D]

Outsourcing for modeling is something Sony should seriously look into for PD.

This seriously, seriously depends.

When I was still playing Forza 4 in 2010, I ran into the same old modeling glitches when trying to paint liveries on cars. EVERY Forza game has issues with a number of cars and vinyls not working right on some of the surfaces.

Sure, if modeling houses produced superb models which worked perfectly in every game, I'd give it a thumbs up to at least try for a certain run of cars and tracks. But my experience with the whole Forza series leaves me pretty much down on the outsourcing thing. The game engines T10 builds for Forza are technically involved and evidently quite finicky things. The game engine PD built for GT5 is being pushed so hard that particle effects cause ugly artifacts on object edges. Since I'm hoping that GT6 has a livery editor, and perhaps one gets patched into GT5 at some point, this outsourcing idea is a point of worry for me.

I'd much rather Kaz get SONY to fund double the modeling staff, where models can be built with the software guys right there to work together on problems. If PD ends up outsourcing... well, okay, we'll see what comes of it. But I don't see outsourcing as being a great or even good solution in games like GT and Forza.

 

[Samus]

This seriously, seriously depends.

When I was still playing Forza 4 in 2010, I ran into the same old modeling glitches when trying to paint liveries on cars. EVERY Forza game has issues with a number of cars and vinyls not working right on some of the surfaces.

Sure, if modeling houses produced superb models which worked perfectly in every game, I'd give it a thumbs up to at least try for a certain run of cars and tracks. But my experience with the whole Forza series leaves me pretty much down on the outsourcing thing. The game engines T10 builds for Forza are technically involved and evidently quite finicky things. The game engine PD built for GT5 is being pushed so hard that particle effects cause ugly artifacts on object edges. Since I'm hoping that GT6 has a livery editor, and perhaps one gets patched into GT5 at some point, this outsourcing idea is a point of worry for me.

I'd much rather Kaz get SONY to fund double the modeling staff, where models can be built with the software guys right there to work together on problems. If PD ends up outsourcing... well, okay, we'll see what comes of it. But I don't see outsourcing as being a great or even good solution in games like GT and Forza.

No matter who models a car you're always going to get quirks like that though. Everyone is human whether you work at T10 or the smaller outsourcing company so as long as those bugs are fixed I've no issue with outsourcing as long as the quality remains equal. None of the Forza cars look as good as GT5 premiums but they all look the same. If you showed me two cars and told me one was in house and the other outsourced I doubt I could tell which is which.

Also this is something you can easily run a trial of, so to speak. PD could find a company and say "right, we can make x amount of cars in 1 working month to this quality, show us what you can do in the same time". If they like the results great, if they don't they can either work to see what the issues are or forget it. Either way, nothing is lost but plenty to be potentially gained. I just get the feeling PD are stubborn in their ways, Kaz in particular.

 

[sdf]

Most of SCE Studios are "tiny" in comparison to other development studios, it said that currently 600 employees at Capcom are working on Resident Evil 6 (just 1 game ), Uncharted Series is made by a groupp of 90 people and that's the last number known after their expansion, now they have 2 teams, PD is about less than 150, but I'm sure that IF they wanted more, they could ask founds to expand themselves, they sure know how to handle their budget 👍

You know that this example isnt right?
To say that capcom has 600 people behind RE6 equals to Sony have all studios (santa monica/naughty dog/Polyphony etc) behind (lets say) The Last of us.
Cause.....As far as we know RE6 is the only game at the moment that capcom is "actually" developing.
DmC/DMC5 is developed by Ninja theory and Lost Planet 3 by Spark Unlimited.

It is normal that Capcom have put all this effort behind RE6 cause things havent been well for them in the recent past.
They have abandoned some successful franchises (e.x. onimusha) and they released flop games like Bionic commando and Dark void.

In reality the fan base (cause the games werent something special) of Devil May Cry and Resident Evil saved their a** in this gen of consoles.
+Plus the 1000 year old titles Street fighter and Marvel Vs Capcom.

.....and their future isnt that bright,
DmC/DMC5 looks like s**t and have alienate many fans and Lost Planet, doesnt really have a fun base.

Resident Evil 6 is their last bet thats why they have all their resources behind it.
They should have a billion people dev'ing RE6 cause if they cock this up too they will end up releasing dungeon & dragons in HD collection.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Uh how could you possibly play FM4 back in 2010 when it was a 2011 release...? This makes me feel that once again from you, you're just saying things to cast a greater light on GT5.

 

[avens]

Everything you said was cool, but in the end it's your opinion. You said you don't care for back seats but I do makes me feel as If in a a real car. Also In Forza every driver has red belts that are stitched on his racing suit while in GT5 their are real seats belts something else I like a lot. You love FM sound that's cool, but as a whole I will like GT5 sound overall In the end it's all down to one taste. What I see is PD having to start from scratch and I think they did a great job with GT5 regarding that. I mean weather night to day transition track creator Exhaust visuals for all premiums etc. Many people think PD is behind right now, but in my opinion they took the hit with GT5 and everything is going to be uphill from now on. They have the foundation, now they just have to keep building I expect GT6 to be on another level.

such a fanboy. Good thing is your arguments were destroyed by other people already, so I don't have to do it myself.

But just to say something, PD isn't the best in any aspect of the racing genre, including modelling, handling, weather and real life stats, all which fanboys praise.

In the end it's the same conclusion as usual. PD desperately needs more man power, as post 2004 content is only ~25% of GT5 and now there's competition.

 

[Tornado]

Am I a bad enough dude to ignore the entire thread and respond to the OP (since I don't really want to bother with JDM doing his typical thing again when everyone else has been tying it up nicely)?



Duh.

Each game has been a huge success, but why is it that Sony doesn`t advertise GT as much as games like Uncharted or God of War

Gran Turismo sponsors racing cars. Gran Turismo sponsors entire racing series (and for that matter, GT Academy). It has a continued presence at major international auto shows. And when PD actually gets crap together and releases a game, they put up massive advertising campaigns that air for weeks after release when most big name titles only have ads up to launch.


So how are they not advertising?

or doesn`t supports PD the way they deserve, with more ressources so they can keep up with T10 which have way more people working on the Forza games.

$80 million (ish). 5 years of development time. How PD spends that money may be limited by Sony, but how does that mean the same thing as Sony not supporting them financially?

Also, I can`t stand how much praise they give to Quantic Dream whichs only little success was Heavy Rain (A story driven game full of plotholes), while PD doesn`t even get mentioned at the E3.

Probably because PD didn't have anything to show at E3. Or maybe someone at PD finally figured out that they should keep their mouth's shut unless they have something of value to present to prevent another GT PSP/Vision Gran Turismo-style disaster.








Really, where are you getting the idea that Sony doesn't support PD?

 

[Santos i7]

such a fanboy. Good thing is your arguments were destroyed by other people already, so I don't have to do it myself.

But just to say something, PD isn't the best in any aspect of the racing genre, including modelling, handling, weather and real life stats, all which fanboys praise.

In the end it's the same conclusion as usual. PD desperately needs more man power, as post 2004 content is only ~25% of GT5 and now there's competition.

Making valid points does not make someone a fanboy. That term is tossed around way too much. You're on GTPlanet. What did you expect to happen?

 

[JDMKING13]

Making valid points does not make someone a fanboy. That term is tossed around way too much. You're on GTPlanet. What did you expect to happen?

I don't pay any attention to it. Just as you said I made my point and I agreed with him only saying that what he said was his opinion. I have both games and enjoy them for what they are special for. It's all good

@ AVENS please destroy my arguments if you may.

 

[avens]

Making valid points does not make someone a fanboy. That term is tossed around way too much. You're on GTPlanet. What did you expect to happen?

his "valid points" are just his opinions, as he stated. For example he thinks GT5's sound is good (#69) and that outsourcing means doing work wrongly (#65).

I don't pay any attention to it. Just as you said I made my point and I agreed with him only saying that what he said was his opinion. I have both games and enjoy them for what they are special for. It's all good

@ AVENS please destroy my arguments if you may.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7186927#post7186927
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7186933#post7186933
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7187509#post7187509
+ game reviews, and this whole subforum really.

You are just discussing known facts such as sounds, handling and content; all areas in which forza4 destroys gt5.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Like many other threads around here, "fanboy" will be considered name-calling and an attack. If you can't argue someone's points without resorting to the sort of tactics usually found on a school yard, it's recommended you don't bother posting in the thread.

Or, do, and end up with an infraction or time-out. Your call.

D - while I appreciate you've awoken from your slumber to talk of your vast few... weeks' experience (apparently during time travel too), after spending a solid 8 months playing both games, there is a very small gap in quality these days (the Austin-Healey being a shining example). PD still leads the way on consoles with lighting though, which some people have trouble separating. But as I fear I'm going further and further off-topic, to tie this back to the topic at hand: outsourcing can work, though as mentioned by carracerptp, it depends on the fidelity demanded. As long as standards were laid down before work began, and solid QA was practiced, it could work well for PD. Furthermore, since Sony does obviously still support PD quite generously, it's not outside the realm of possibility. Though I can't argue with PD's recent hiring spree, since they are admittedly very good at what they do. I think we all agree that content creation speed is what needs to be improved, and I don't mind either approach if it means that gets addressed.

Anyways, considering all the exposure GT enjoys, I still can't wrap my head around the idea of people thinking its under-appreciated!

 

[JDMKING13]

his "valid points" are just his opinions, as he stated. For example he thinks GT5's sound is good (#69) and that outsourcing means doing work wrongly (#65).




https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7186927#post7186927
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7186933#post7186933
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7187509#post7187509
+ game reviews, and this whole subforum really.

You are just discussing known facts such as sounds, handling and content; all areas in which forza4 destroys gt5.

As you did with all all your point's, however I guess because magaizine and members share your opinion you are right. I am sorry I don't like the fact that all the cars in stock fashion already sound like they are tuned, or the fact replays sounds are not that much different from driving in cockpit view. Again in the end it's a damn forum (GT) with thousands of opinion. You like what you like and I like what I like. Also where did I say outsourcing was wrong? I said for the PD team to take their time and do it right.

You are just discussing known facts such as sounds, handling and content; all areas in which forza4 destroys gt5.

Those 90 cars have way better sound samples than every single GT5 car, and better modelling and handling than all standards and most premiums

SO you are calling me a fan boy which in the end who cares because it's quite silly, and even though I may like GT5 more I play FM also. I got all the DLC and support the game just as much as I do GT. It might have it's short comings but I don't go on the FM sites and rave about how much I love GT what It does better and call people out for enjoying their game.

 

[1241Penguin]

Also where did I say outsourcing was wrong? I said for the PD team to take their time and do it right.

Your saying that you don't want it implies that:

You are going way over board in my opinion. At least you could say in your opinion. The problem with many people is they want one company to do it a certain way another company does it in in the end it's not fair. Turn 10 has been doing this DLC thing for along time this is what they do. I don't want any outsourcing from the PD team take your time and do it right so we never have to go through this again.

 

[JDMKING13]

Your saying that you don't want it implies that:

You are going way over board in my opinion. At least you could say in your opinion. The problem with many people is they want one company to do it a certain way another company does it in in the end it's not fair. Turn 10 has been doing this DLC thing for along time this is what they do. I don't want any outsourcing from the PD team take your time and do it right so we never have to go through this again.

Dude can you at least bold the whole part? Please tell me how that implies out sourcing is wrong? Again There is no need for outsourcing, expand within the team and get the job done right so you never have to go back and re do it. Keep trying. 👍