Why is the popular opinion that TCS is cheating?

[ruggermole]

I think the issue that some egos come up against is when it comes to comparison, and when you have someone who uses TCS or other aids against someone who isn't. There isn't really a fair comparison in most cases because it's like a mesh of different game difficulties all one one track at the same time. You can have someone with all assists on next to Mr. no aids and whoever wins is the "fastest", but I'm one of those that would argue "no".

If you're using driving aids then you aren't fully learning how to control the cars in game. That is simply a fact. You may be faster with aids on, but you're not better at the game, or sim driving. It is up to everyone to use the crutches they feel helps them enjoy the game the most, but in direct competition you can't lump the driving aid players in with the no-aids player because the footing isn't equal, and there is clearly more skill required for not using any. I've seen a couple of tutorial videos on YT where creators are telling others how to beat gold while all of the driver aids are busy flashing away on the screen, and to me, that makes little sense.

If you watch a speed-run of a game, difficulty matters. Its a fact that in games legendary is harder than easy, veteran than recruit, insane vs casual, and this is true for pretty much any game worth playing. In the case of driving games, the guys who play on "easy" (aids on) sometime compare themselves directly to those who play on "hard". That isn't a fair comparison at all, and easily bruises the fragile egos of some of us "sim-racers". But when it comes to comparison of driving skills like lap times, missions, license testing etc., a person not using aids is objectively better at the game than someone who is.

I personally use ABS on weak, and that's it, because I want to know how to control the car full stop, and have a long life of real driving experience to use. Though at times its frustrating, the ability and reward that comes from it wouldn't exist for me if anything else was on. That doesn't work for everyone.

WITH ALL THAT SAID. Please do what you feel is the best, and most fun! Those of us in either camp need to watch our egos, and try to not step on the toes of those that play different from us.

This is why I wish games would automatically have the assists set to the cars factory settings. Someone who doesn’t use traction control in a car with traction control is kind of doing the same thing as someone using it in an f1 car.

I do feel this whole thread is the strawiest of strawmen as I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone say this.

I personally don’t use traction control cause it makes you slower 90% of the time. If I play ACC I’ll have it in a low setting.

CSA is another story cause it isn’t even a real thing.

 

[wheelhp]

TCS is cheating because SIM RACERS are REAL MEN. REAL MEN DRIVE STONES WITH NO TCS

 

[m76]

I play the game for my own entertainment. Couldn't care less what some dude on the internet thinks.

I switch traction control on and off depending on the car. Some cars are just undriveable without it, while with others it only slows you down.

 

[Green Book]

I try to keep TCS at either 1 or zero because it slows you down exiting corners. Depends on the car. Like fast road cars on sports tires will break traction too easily so I'll have it on. Gr 4 or 3 cars on racing tires usually have plenty of grip and it's not nessecary. But I see it as a tool to be used.

Heck in my real car even when I turn it off it doesn't really shut down, it just allows a bit more wheel spin. But the stability system and abs stay on no matter what.

 

[robisme]

Hi, Don't know why this topic even gets space on the forum, IF TCS was cheating, it would not even be included in the game, There is just a certain few people who like to be able to say "I use no TCS ever" well that's life, but we don't all have to do things their way, because they think they are in a special group or something. The tools are there for all to use as they choose, its a game you buy, to play the way you enjoy doing, not as other try to dictate. I've played this since the first one a long time ago, I do as I choose always.

​

 

[Keef]

I've used TCS on single-player modes but I won't use it online, especially in BoP races. I take the super-supreme-sit-on-a-throne-sim-racer-high-ground of using 0 during Gr4, Gr3 etc BoP races, out of fairness. We race on skill, not on technology. But that's also based on real life - these racings series don't allow TCS anymore either. And I'm only a B/A rated gamepad driver so it's quite tricky. Besides that, I try to note whether or not a road car actually offers TCS in real life before using it in-game. For example, Ferrari's manettino dial and sport vs. race modes on various other cars.

I also don't use VGT cars in online races because I have a conscience. I try to stick to whatever the realistic and manageable community standard tends to be which has been pretty stable for years now. That's despite GT7's much more difficult throttle control requirements.

 

[RacingFan1]

Many cars in this game by default are so throttle sensitive you're almost forced to use TC

 

[wheelhp]

In GT7 it's debateable since the physics will get updated to fix the oversteer issues at present. Do whatever works for you, it's how you learn. In GT Sport I'd recommend many try to race without TCS unless of course it's an endurance race or the conditions aren't dry, then even I would use TCS in some capacity if I'm doing many races back to back for example or I'm feeling low on energy to keep the tyres from gettting worn out. If you play ACC however then by all means use TCS since those cars in that sim demand it regardless of your driving experience. I'd much rather have a grid of people who can keep a racing line than seeing all these drivers knock into each other because they all decided to turn off TCS when they're not ready for it.

 

[NickGuy]

TCS1 chad reporting in

 

[Montreal_Mike]

I don't think TCS is cheating because I think (for most cars) its actually slower than no TCS. Yesterday's Manu race was a good example. I was at least 8 tenths faster without TCS than with TCS1. You almost need a TCS level of 0.5 to make it of any use.

That said, some of the rain licenses or some of the super cars on comfort tires really need TCS1.

 

[mwoodski]

I've used TCS on single-player modes but I won't use it online, especially in BoP races. I take the super-supreme-sit-on-a-throne-sim-racer-high-ground of using 0 during Gr4, Gr3 etc BoP races, out of fairness. We race on skill, not on technology. But that's also based on real life - these racings series don't allow TCS anymore either. And I'm only a B/A rated gamepad driver so it's quite tricky. Besides that, I try to note whether or not a road car actually offers TCS in real life before using it in-game. For example, Ferrari's manettino dial and sport vs. race modes on various other cars.

I also don't use VGT cars in online races because I have a conscience. I try to stick to whatever the realistic and manageable community standard tends to be which has been pretty stable for years now. That's despite GT7's much more difficult throttle control requirements.

GT3 cars 100% have traction control and ABS as they're designed to be raced by both pros and rich dentists.

 

[Keef]

GT3 cars 100% have traction control and ABS as they're designed to be raced by both pros and rich dentists.

This is news to me. Did they introduce TCS in recent years?

 

[Peter.]

In my experience with GT games, TC is frowned upon for reasons that don't always make perfect sense. It's always been slower in GT, for as long as I can remember. Certain aspects of GT's physics engine, and the way it implements TC, have made it slower. GT's TCS, even at 1, is very shackling on its limit.

So the skill thing I can kinda understand, if you're choosing to be more in tune with your car, you want to be rewarded with faster lap times, so you'd be upset if someone is as fast as you while having a very easy time. The thing is, though, you're mostly going to be slower with it, and GT's physics engine (before GT7) was pretty forgiving anyway.

Driving/sim communities are not always very inclusive of lower skilled drivers, or less equipped ones, and there's some semblance of that going on here, too. Many people welcome GT7 becoming artificially difficult (see Physics thread), even if it isn't realistic at all, just to wear their ability to navigate the physics engine as a badge of honor. Also related to GT, for quite a while you couldn't go online without seeing multiple lobbies saying no TC (despite being documented as being slower). So it must be some combination of car culture/hypermasculinity/pride involved.

GT has done something good here (to me) as far as inclusion goes. Traction control is faster in many other games, and these days, in real life, too. But it's slower in GT. It's also included and adjustable on every car, old and new (why not let someone who isn't skilled be able to drive a Cobra if they want?) and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. You can just turn it off for your own realism pursuit, you'll probably be faster anyway.

 

[wheelhp]

This is news to me. Did they introduce TCS in recent years?

I was actually going to point this out myself. The GT3 cars of today are completely different beasts, the entire setup of the car works optimally with TCS not against it. It's debatable on why this is but it's the way it is and has been for years now.

Since this is just facts now, the idea that "only real men" race without TCS seems of a moot point in the competitive scene. Egotistical at best. I get that the driving is more raw and hence rewarding to master without TCS in many cars. Like breaking in a horse, the challenge and feedback is what makes it fun, the back and forth. The TCS in GT3 cars is very good at allowing the cars to consistently race on the limit of grip and different from the heavy-handed stuff you find in many family sedans.

 

[mwoodski]

This is news to me. Did they introduce TCS in recent years?

No. Basically since the inception of the class a little over fifteen years ago they've had it. GTE/GTLM cars have TCS as well, they just don't have ABS.

 

[Christian_C]

Unless the rules specifically prohibit it, any modern racecar is going to use TC regardless of if it’s a pro or an amateur driver in the car.

The idea that leveraging TC or ABS is somehow a ‘bad thing’ is complete nonsense.

The drivers who are fast with TC/ABS will still be fast without it if they’re forced to drive cars without it. But the reality is that both TC and ABS in a real world sense improve driver consistency, reduce fatigue and improve tyre life at the minimum. It’s an absolute no brainer to leverage it in the real world.

If anything, the GT3 cars in GT7 frustrate me to drive with the TC turned on because it excessively reduces performance in a way that a real system would not (too much torque cut with intervention).

I used to be part of the whole “no assists crowd” but now... I can appreciate a really well sorted TC/ABS setup. There’s a lot of investment in these systems and it’s for good reason!