Why no one is talking about how ridiculously expensive the Jaguar XJ13 is?

[Techlet]

My take was if you read my actual words were that I get it sucks for people, it doesn’t work for them.

It's hard when your actual words keep contradicting themselves.

The economy isn’t balanced correctly vs the races to do.

Yet you've repeated said that the economy is fine because PD designed it this way.

What else can I say over and over again, yet people seem to quote me and find a scratching post to quell their complaining itch.

What I've been seeing is you repeating over and over that you're done with the topic but keep coming back to argue the indefensible.

 

[Strittan]

My take was if you read my actual words were that I get it sucks for people, it doesn’t work for them.

I didn’t make the game, just have an opinion about it.

The economy isn’t balanced correctly vs the races to do.

What else can I say over and over again, yet people seem to quote me and find a scratching post to quell their complaining itch.

If anything lobby the mods who actually speak to PD and Kaz….

You’ve constantly defended PD’s decisions, and trivialised the problem that people have with the in-game economy by basically saying “I’m fine personally, I just enjoy driving cars” and now you’re denying that you ever took this stance.

A poor choice of example regardless of sentiment.

You made a claim, and I tried to prove you wrong, and because I succeeded my example was poor?

 

[AutumnalGlow]

Not always true, as has been mentioned a number of times, MS and T10, under community backlash, removed them from Forza.

Loot boxes to be removed from Forza Motorsport 7

Developer Turn 10 has announced that it will be removing Prize Crates - Forza Motorsport 7's version of loot boxes - fr…

www.eurogamer.net

The microtransactions never even made it into Forza Motorsport 7. The lootboxes were instead bought with in-game credits, which could not be purchased with money. The lootboxes were then also replaced after release with a rotating store where you could buy all of the driver suits and mod cards that were in the lootboxes, and all cars not locked behind career progression rewards were added to the shop in another update at a fair price, with the exception of 1 or 2 unicorn cars that are unfortunately still locked away, potentially forever. The game now has infinite longevity, you can play it in 20 years. (psst, GT, maybe also think about that "race length" feature FM7 added to its career mode?)

Forza did have MTX from Forza Motorsport 4 to Forza Horizon 3, in the form of car tokens. I never liked that, but at least I never felt any pressure to buy them. I didn't even know how for a long time. The game economy wasn't so stingy, so buying car tokens never really made sense. If you wanted a car, you could reasonably get it. There were still often a couple very expensive cars (usually Ferraris), and those would still feel special and rare, but not unattainable.

 

[Techlet]

To add, the real money tokens (at least in FH3) could also be completely hidden. Not possible with GT7's currently UI.

 

[Johnnn]

Not every game company are greedy *****. The car looks good and finally I can appreciate it much more. If PD loves cars so much I wonder why we don't have Forzavista. Maybe they love money much more...

 

[AutumnalGlow]

To add, the real money tokens (at least in FH3) could also be completely hidden. Not possible with GT7's currently UI.

The MTX could be hidden in GT Sport too

 

[Johnnn]

The MTX could be hidden in GT Sport too

It looks they would rather remove normal credits and leave MTXs only. Still many HC fans would love it as a good improvement.

 

[Silver Arrows]

The microtransactions never even made it into Forza Motorsport 7. The lootboxes were instead bought with in-game credits, which could not be purchased with money. The lootboxes were then also replaced after release with a rotating store where you could buy all of the driver suits and mod cards that were in the lootboxes, and all cars not locked behind career progression rewards were added to the shop in another update at a fair price, with the exception of 1 or 2 unicorn cars that are unfortunately still locked away, potentially forever. The game now has infinite longevity, you can play it in 20 years. (psst, GT, maybe also think about that "race length" feature FM7 added to its career mode?)

Forza did have MTX from Forza Motorsport 4 to Forza Horizon 3, in the form of car tokens. I never liked that, but at least I never felt any pressure to buy them. I didn't even know how for a long time. The game economy wasn't so stingy, so buying car tokens never really made sense. If you wanted a car, you could reasonably get it. There were still often a couple very expensive cars (usually Ferraris), and those would still feel special and rare, but not unattainable.

To add, the real money tokens (at least in FH3) could also be completely hidden. Not possible with GT7's currently UI.

Thank you.

It's always frustrating to see people on this board parroting that FM7 had loot boxes and as such makes the series the devil incarnate until the heat death of the universe, when the actual reality was anything but, and while still relatively bad, in comparison to other games, and in comparison to GT7 in particular, was about as much of a non-issue as it could be. Microsoft and T10 learned their lesson, and they haven't slipped back since. Yet people still (in my opinion, knowingly) paint Forza with the same brush they did back in 2018 because this sub-forum still believes that Forza is the American ogre trying to pillage their beloved series.

This is what enrages me more then anything else, that people still hold Forza 7, and the Forza series in general, to false pretenses that stopped being the case literally years ago. Yet when Polyphony adds in micro-transactions to GT Sport months after launch and in a way that's about as scummy as one can put them in without telling the fanbase to either accept it or shove it, there's little complaints and instead spinning the issue back towards Forza's implementation towards them. When GT7 is literally built their in game economy around a two pronged approach of grinding and specifically micro-transactions, and in a way that's without question one of the worst on the market, not only is there people trying to say it isn't a big deal, but there's people out there basically trying to victim blame the people who participate in the system because of FOMO, and don't seem to care too much about Polyphony preying upon lesser parts of the population with predatory tactics in applying those micro-transactions with a two tiered system for credits in game. All because of some bat**** view that Kaz and Polyphony deserve to be defended, all because it doesn't effect them and the way they play the game (until it invariably does, because everything in this game eventually goes back to the in game economy and micro-transactions) and all because of some misguided need to continue with the pathetic defense of a company and indeed, man who doesn't care about them in the slightest.

People bag on Forza's (specifically, Horizon's) in game economy and how it devalues most cars considering they can be won in wheelspins, everything is handed to you on a silver platter, that the offering of Forzathon cars and the like is time gated behind weekly objectives, and they're right to an extent. But considering the other side of the fence, where cars rotate out simply because Kaz wanted to show off that He Knows People in the automotive industry, that he wanted more money in his coffers in about the worst way possible even when his series is more or less a guaranteed 10 million copy seller by virtue of the publisher on the front of the box, and the game is designed around devaluing your time even more and the game is cut to the bone with content in order to further that point, why the hell wouldn't I simply just play Forzathon challenges in a week's time to get the cars I want? Why wouldn't I want to have everything handed to me on a silver platter if this is going to be the alternative?

 

[Johnnn]

Forza is currently the best series and MC shows it. I don't like Motorsport too much but Horizons with bit tuned physics are amazing. Funny are user reviews on MC for GT7. I hope PD fails badly.

 

[Scaff]

Actually I never said they gave gt7 10,

You said, and I quote...

Ign, clowns that give everything 10/10, who takes them seriously these days

Everything would include GT7, and well, everything.

i said that's what they do or did usually,

No, you clearly didn't., that would be saying something like 'IGN throw around 10/10 score like it's Christmass', but no, you clearly said IGN "give everything 10/10".

Quite why you would try and shift the goalposts, when what you said is clearly on view for everyone to see is a bit absurd.

If you don't want to get called out for ******** statements, then don't make them!

Anyway like I said, I stopped taking ign or any other highly paid reviewers in consideration years ago

This is utterly irrelevant, you complained that no reviewer called out MXT's, which was incorrect, and when provided with a source (which you seem to have not even bothered to read) it, for some reason, triggered an inaccurate outburst about IGN review scores, and reviewers that can't drive.

The more appropriate response would have been to simply acknowledge that you weren't aware of this, not to strawman an equally incorrect tirade about IGN, review scores, and reviewers driving ability, be wrong about those, and then continue to double-down on them.

 

[Gt79]

You said, and I quote...



Everything would include GT7, and well, everything.


No, you clearly didn't., that would be saying something like 'IGN throw around 10/10 score like it's Christmass', but no, you clearly said IGN "give everything 10/10".

Quite why you would try and shift the goalposts, when what you said is clearly on view for everyone to see is a bit absurd.

If you don't want to get called out for ******** statements, then don't make them!



This is utterly irrelevant, you complained that no reviewer called out MXT's, which was incorrect, and when provided with a source (which you seem to have not even bothered to read) it, for some reason, triggered an inaccurate outburst about IGN review scores, and reviewers that can't drive.

The more appropriate response would have been to simply acknowledge that you weren't aware of this, not to strawman an equally incorrect tirade about IGN, review scores, and reviewers driving ability, be wrong about those, and then continue to double-down on them.

well everything except gt7, now happy?
anyway they gave 9 and criticized it, isn't it a tad weird? shouldn't they change the score based on that alone or it's written in stone or something, like i said i don't care about ign nor their scores and reviews, at this point with amounts of bugs and content available I'd give fare 6/10, maybe things will change in a year or two, when it's at the eol
i also like the fact that how even admin or mod came down from his heaven and pictured me a bad guy and brought his minions along lol

Not every game company are greedy *****. The car looks good and finally I can appreciate it much more. If PD loves cars so much I wonder why we don't have Forzavista. Maybe they love money much more...

lol that car is like 3 bucks in Forza, here it's 200,unless you want to play fr for another 30+ times, frankly I'd just pay 3$ and i never bought any dlcs unless it's a complete package

 

[Johnnn]

lol that car is like 3 bucks in Forza, here it's 200,unless you want to play fr for another 30+ times, frankly I'd just pay 3$ and i never bought any dlcs unless it's a complete package

In fact, it's a part of ultimate edition. I bought complete GT and all Forzas. To me, I got it into my garage directly in Forza but not in GT. It's so absurd to check GT7 with a competition. Last month I thought how Horizon went down the road but after GT7 it's almost perfect game.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

Last month I thought how Horizon went down the road but after GT7 it's almost perfect game.

I'd planned on quitting FH5 to play GT7 instead but... nevermind that, I want to actually drive a variety of cars. FH5 has plenty of problems and a "known issues" list longer than Route X but at least I can still afford any car I want, eventually.

FH5 isn't even as generous with money and cars as FH4, so there's still some element of picking the cars I want over the others, rather than quickly filling my whole garage. Still faster than I expect GT to be, but that's okay because FH5 is a sandbox.

I really wish I didn't need to choose between a very broken game and a less broken but far more predatory game. Oh, modern gaming...

 

[Gt79]

I'd planned on quitting FH5 to play GT7 instead but... nevermind that, I want to actually drive a variety of cars. FH5 has plenty of problems and a "known issues" list longer than Route X but at least I can still afford any car I want, eventually.

FH5 isn't even as generous with money and cars as FH4, so there's still some element of picking the cars I want over the others, rather than quickly filling my whole garage. Still faster than I expect GT to be, but that's okay because FH5 is a sandbox.

I really wish I didn't need to choose between a very broken game and a less broken but far more predatory game. Oh, modern gaming...

that was actually my plan, but i guess I'll be back for that gtr 2020,considering all new cars except for vision ones in gt7 are from 2017
ign 11/10 goty

 

[Johnnn]

I'd planned on quitting FH5 to play GT7 instead but... nevermind that, I want to actually drive a variety of cars. FH5 has plenty of problems and a "known issues" list longer than Route X but at least I can still afford any car I want, eventually.

FH5 isn't even as generous with money and cars as FH4, so there's still some element of picking the cars I want over the others, rather than quickly filling my whole garage. Still faster than I expect GT to be, but that's okay because FH5 is a sandbox.

I really wish I didn't need to choose between a very broken game and a less broken but far more predatory game. Oh, modern gaming...

Exactly, I played since day -4 and know about everything. I was shocked but overall game always worked and got all cars first owner (no AH which is not in GT) about first month of gameplay which is OK to me for the amount. And everybody could use many glitches. I didn't because I thought it's better. It was not, glitches are always good idea. The game is about cars and if you can have it all, it's better.

Currently Horizon 5 looks amazing and GT7 as broken *****. Damage is done and it will never be the same as when I saw GT7 intro and thought that must be 10/10 game.

 

[Scaff]

well everything except gt7, now happy?

No, because it's still a wildly inaccurate claim, and one that seems to have been born out of a sulk around being wrong about reviewers not commenting on MTX.

anyway they gave 9 and criticized it, isn't it a tad weird? shouldn't they change the score based on that alone or it's written in stone or something, like i said i don't care about ign nor their scores and reviews, at this point with amounts of bugs and content available I'd give fare 6/10, maybe things will change in a year or two, when it's at the eol

Which is a totally different point.

I've no idea why you keep doubling down on this, why is it so hard to just go "yeah they did point out the MTX's in GT 7 are crap"?

i also like the fact that how even admin or mod came down from his heaven and pictured me a bad guy and brought his minions along lol

All I've done is point out that IGN did comment (twice) on the MTXs, it's you that opened the rest of the mess with wildly inaccurate claims you are unable to support because they are wildly inaccurate.

Oh and I brought no one with me, what I will say is that you do need to cut the attitude, as right now your signal-to-noise ratio is pure noise.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

The microtransactions never even made it into Forza Motorsport 7. The lootboxes were instead bought with in-game credits, which could not be purchased with money. The lootboxes were then also replaced after release with a rotating store where you could buy all of the driver suits and mod cards that were in the lootboxes, and all cars not locked behind career progression rewards were added to the shop in another update at a fair price, with the exception of 1 or 2 unicorn cars that are unfortunately still locked away, potentially forever. The game now has infinite longevity, you can play it in 20 years. (psst, GT, maybe also think about that "race length" feature FM7 added to its career mode?)

Forza did have MTX from Forza Motorsport 4 to Forza Horizon 3, in the form of car tokens. I never liked that, but at least I never felt any pressure to buy them. I didn't even know how for a long time. The game economy wasn't so stingy, so buying car tokens never really made sense. If you wanted a car, you could reasonably get it. There were still often a couple very expensive cars (usually Ferraris), and those would still feel special and rare, but not unattainable.

They never did, yes... But Alan Hartman was gonna add them to the game and the only reason he was not able to was because the VIP bonus was a pathetic, 5-time limited use card, and the community forced T10 not to.

I don't know if this is true, but reportedly the lootbox code was so entrenched within FM7 that it took months for Esaki and co. to remove it. There was a very clear intention to monetize this stuff, but the backlash stopped them cold.

I don't feel any pressure to buy MTX in GT7 either, especially when credit income is similar to Sport. I used Blue Moon Bay there, I use Fisherman's now.

Honestly, I used to enjoy FM7, but anyone who thinks that cluster**** of a game deserves any praise for doing anything right really needs a reality check. FM7 could have killed Gran Turismo dead, instead it almost killed Forza Motorsport itself.

Currently Horizon 5 looks amazing and GT7 as broken *****. Damage is done and it will never be the same as when I saw GT7 intro and thought that must be 10/10 game.

lol

Most of GT7's shortcomings are due to them copying all of Forza Horizon's bad stuff.

 

[Johnnn]

lol

Most of GT7's shortcomings are due to them copying all of Forza Horizon's bad stuff.

So why Forza and mostly Horizons and the best rated games?

GT7 is bad mostly because it's still old GT without any improvements. They focus on useless details instead of gameplay.

 

[Scaff]

They never did, yes... But Alan Hartman was gonna add them to the game and the only reason he was not able to was because the VIP bonus was a pathetic, 5-time limited use card, and the community forced T10 not to.

I don't know if this is true, but reportedly the lootbox code was so entrenched within FM7 that it took months for Esaki and co. to remove it. There was a very clear intention to monetize this stuff, but the backlash stopped them cold.

I don't feel any pressure to buy MTX in GT7 either, especially when credit income is similar to Sport. I used Blue Moon Bay there, I use Fisherman's now.

Honestly, I used to enjoy FM7, but anyone who thinks that cluster**** of a game deserves any praise for doing anything right really needs a reality check. FM7 could have killed Gran Turismo dead, instead it almost killed Forza Motorsport itself.

Which utterly misses the key point.

The studio and the dev listen to the community and removed them, what do you think the odd of that happening are for GT7?

 

[AutumnalGlow]

that was actually my plan, but i guess I'll be back for that gtr 2020,considering all new cars except for vision ones in gt7 are from 2017
ign 11/10 goty

Tbf FH5 doesn't exactly have many new cars over FH4, a common complaint is that a lot of the "new cars" they keep bringing in through the Playlist are just the same exact cars that we saw in FH4 or earlier.

They never did, yes... But Alan Hartman was gonna add them to the game and the only reason he was not able to was because the VIP bonus was a pathetic, 5-time limited use card, and the community forced T10 not to.

I don't know if this is true, but reportedly the lootbox code was so entrenched within FM7 that it took months for Esaki and co. to remove it. There was a very clear intention to monetize this stuff, but the backlash stopped them cold.

I genuinely do not doubt any of this, and I'm aware of the awful VIP bonus on release. Turn 10 isn't innocent either, only less predatory in their MTX than Gran Turismo 7.

I have a long list of problems with Forza, but I've kept those complaints to the official Forza forums, because that's where those devs might look. I keep my Gran Turismo complaints to GTPlanet, because the same is true for here.

The only thing that is making me want to return to Forza right now is the fact that it isn't so predatory. I had fully planned on abandoning FH5 if GT7 was good enough, and it wasn't.

I don't feel any pressure to buy MTX in GT7 either, especially when credit income is similar to Sport. I used Blue Moon Bay there, I use Fisherman's now.

Very very few people will find either of these grinds fun, and they're worse than previous GT games. Sport worse than previous, and 7 worse than Sport. Overall, we earn less money and cars cost more. People are only doing these grinds because it's what the game pushes them into through FOMO and poor payouts elsewhere. You cannot convince me you wanted to race Fishermans over and over; there is no way you wouldn't rather be doing something else. And if the game is pushing you away from activities you want to do to prioritize grinding stuff you don't want to do because it's the only reasonable alternative to MTX... that's you affected by MTX, from a distance. A ripple effect, if you will.

 

[McLaren]

Honestly, I used to enjoy FM7, but anyone who thinks that cluster**** of a game deserves any praise for doing anything right really needs a reality check. FM7 could have killed Gran Turismo dead, instead it almost killed Forza Motorsport itself.

And now Gran Turismo could be in a position to kill itself because PD may or may not learn from Forza's own mistakes when it came to greed....

 

[cottag3ch33s3]

as a person coming back to racing games (not videogames in general) i very much dislike the way PD set up the economy.

i have no problem with grinding for certain things in games, but when there is no variation and mtx are blatantly on display i really don't feel the developers have the customer in mind first.

i have seen this in the (recent) past from many other developers in other genres which, even if i may have enjoyed the honeymoon phase, have let me to ultimately drop not only the game but oftentimes the developer completely.

i'm not even the person who jumps from one to another game, but rather someone who would like to play at least one title longterm (putting 100s of hours in). unfortunately very few developers in todays videogame market value the customer as highly as they should.

 

[Birch]

I don't really see a problem.

I see a car I like, I grind for credits, I buy the car. I did that in previous titles and I shall do it in this one. Nothing has changed for me.

Will I buy credits through MTX? Absolutely not. I bought the XJ13 and I can't wait to see the threads when the Shelby Daytona is up for sale for 20m lol.

 

[mwoodski]

Why are people comparing Horizon and GT7? They're two totally different kinds of games with the only shared component being that they feature cars.

Also, I haven't actually noticed anywhere in GT7 where the microtransactions are "on full display."

 

[icenl]

They are always on your homescreen when starting the game, in game you don't have a change car menu option but you can go to the blue circle next to your credit balance and top up your credits. Also when buying anything the top op button is there.

I hope they fix the payouts of the races, or add more vehicles to arcade mode. Right now i wouldn't recommend the game to someone who only plays a game casually a couple of hours a week.

I finished the licenses, missions and menu book, so the only thing left to do is collect the rest of the cars. But that is also kind of pointless if there are no events to run the cars.

 

[Scaff]

Why are people comparing Horizon and GT7? They're two totally different kinds of games with the only shared component being that they feature cars.

Because it relevant to the discussion on MTXs

Also, I haven't actually noticed anywhere in GT7 where the microtransactions are "on full display."

So you don't have a button on the menu of your main screen with some coins on that will allow you to check you credit balance and top-up with MTXs, and every time you get awarded any money or buy a car the screen does have an option to 'Top-Up' using MTX's?

Because everybody else's copy does.

 

[mwoodski]

Because it relevant to the discussion on MTXs


So you don't have a button on the menu of your main screen with some coins on that will allow you to check you credit balance and top-up with MTXs, and every time you get awarded any money or buy a car the screen does have an option to 'Top-Up' using MTX's?

Because everybody else's copy does.

I honestly haven't ever actually read anything with that, just hammer down on the X button to get to the next thing.

 

[Gt79]

I see them in addons section before you start the game

 

[Johnnn]

Why are people comparing Horizon and GT7? They're two totally different kinds of games with the only shared component being that they feature cars.

GTS was very arcadey and Horizon 4 was similar. If you like cars, you need to play both and they are rather similar. Far from sim but not arcades. Car unlocking is almost the same but only in one game works.

 

[mwoodski]

GTS was very arcadey and Horizon 4 was similar. If you like cars, you need to play both and they are rather similar. Far from sim but not arcades. Car unlocking is almost the same but only in one game works.

I have both of them and play both of them and they're entirely different games that are focused on different aspects of car culture.

Like I said, the ONLY thing they share is that cars are the focal point. Everything else about both games is so wildly different that they shouldn't be compared.