Why no one is talking about how ridiculously expensive the Jaguar XJ13 is?

[Famine]

Might be much less easy, but I'm sure some people would be interested to try the challenge instead of grinding fisherman again

Which is why there's five easy alternatives also listed in the article about the easiest ways to get money - all of which are as fast as or faster than the final championship, especially once the ease of getting the Clean Race Bonus is taken into account.

 

[Scaff]

Oh, but this game does tons of things wrong:

• None of the bad sounds were updated (looking at you, poor Audi R8 LMS and your GT6 sound)
• Pretty much everything brought over from Forza (roulette odds, invitations, timegating in general)
• The AI puts up a fight, which I like, but it doesn't care about punting you off the track
• The Café is too short and the text characters lack, well, character
• The off track assets, track textures and the NPC animations could be a little better
• Many cars don't have rollcages available without any valid reason
• Some of the new car additions are straight BS (993 Carrera RS and Subaru BRZ STI package for example)

None of which has anything to do with the topic of this thread.

However, there is a difference between enjoying the game despite its flaws, and doing what people like the guy you quoted do: you can't praise their hated game nor criticize their favorite game, or they'll stalk you until you go bananas on them and you look bad. That to me is way more toxic than the blind honeymoon praise and it has been a problem of this forum for a while now.

And as long as they don't break the AUP they are free to do so, just as you are free to debate them on it, and as long as no-one breaks the AUP that's fine.

People are allowed to be deluded in their like or dislike of a title, they are allowed to be utterly and completely biased and unable to support their position (in either direction), none of those things are AUP violations, and that may well test your patience, but please remember that how you reply to them, regardless of what you may believe is provocation, must remain within the AUP as well.

I would also counter than I do no believe that @Benny44 falls into the category you have described either, with his public apology and stepping away to refocus and regroup being evidence of that, he didn't need to do either of these things, and I can assure you that the truly rabid and toxic members rarely do either of these things, more often choosing 'death by moderator' at that point.

 

[Strittan]

My argument is primarily the in game economy. While I by no means think it's perfect, I do like that very few people will have those expensive cars. I think what we've talked about, having a way to drive these outside of career or online would give a nice middle ground for everyone.

This I don’t get. Why?

People go to racing games to live out the car and racing dreams that they aren’t fortunate enough to do in real life. I would die to drive a Porsche 917K in real life sometime, but that will never happen. By the looks of things, I will have a really hard time to get to drive it in GT7 as well, other than in a license test, and you think that’s a good thing?

And no, I don’t want all cars handed to me in a week, but all cars should be obtainable by everyone, and it shouldn’t need to take several months to do so either.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

None of which has anything to do with the topic of this thread.

The idea was to reply to Scaff while only vaguely staying on topic.

In fact all the roulettes and timegating has an impact on progression and are the major reason why the game's economy is the way it is now. Repeating events to earn credits is fun until it isn't. On the other hand, I really don't think anyone is supposed to own endgame cars this early in the game's life, especially when GT7 is a service. Playground Games seems to agree with me considering how one of their first updates to Forza Horizon 5 was to remove Jeep farming.

I prefer the GT way of doing things because these rare cars aren't prizes, they're sold. Which means I can use any source of credits I want, including MTX (which I'm against ofc but hey, it's there). But it's like choosing to die by stab or gunshot. It's bad either way.

Regarding the other person, no it wasn't Benny. I'm not even familiar with him.

 

[sejtur]

This I don’t get. Why?

People go to racing games to live out the car and racing dreams that they aren’t fortunate enough to do in real life. I would die to drive a Porsche 917K in real life sometime, but that will never happen. By the looks of things, I will have a really hard time to get to drive it in GT7 as well, other than in a license test, and you think that’s a good thing?

And no, I don’t want all cars handed to me in a week, but all cars should be obtainable by everyone, and it shouldn’t need to take several months to do so either.

It's on my bucket list to once in my life drive the Porsche 917K... in GT7.

 

[KBart]

So what would be your payouts? How long do you think it should take to buy a 20 million dollar car? Through normal gameplay. Not necessarily online, but in career. How long do you think it should take to get, say, that 12.6 million dollar Jag?

I think we can agree that the MTX are dirty. I don't like them. But they're so overpriced you'd have to be a special kind of foolish to buy them. Yeah, not a great defense of them, but a fool and his money are soon parted. If said Jag was $7.....well, I'd almost be tempted. But it is over 20 times that much. Insanity.

The issue I have with what you're saying is that you don't like the game's economy (not including MTX). I like that it's special to own one of those cars. And that you'll have to play for a couple hundred hours to reasonably get that legends trophy. So basically everyone on here (again, MTX aside) is whining because they can't have everything in the game in a week. Which is simply impatient.

Where is this "cant get stuff in 1 week" coming from.
The time needed excceds this so much!!

Lets assume you need 2 min for Fishermans Bay and always get a clean race. (It takes longer btw)
That would be 97500 = 2 min
Equals to 2.925.000 per hour.

Thats roughly 7 hour of pure grind for 1 Highend-car.
80 legendary cars would mean 560 hours of grinding.
And that is without tuning, loading, and a shorter time calculated than realistic.

That is not reasonable at all.

Even in a grindy game - 200 hours should be enough for at least 90 % of content.

In GT7 you wont even have half the cars after 300 hours.
How can people defend this obvious scam?

 

[wheelhp]

Playground Games seems to agree with me considering how one of their first updates to Forza Horizon 5 was to remove Jeep farming.

This could be simply to ensure people aren't ignoring micro transactions and that they use them to buy stuff? I don't see how your immediate conclusion is that.

Also I still think Everything in GT7 is a tad expensive. I don't see how some things are priced the way they are.

 

[Gt79]

This could be simply to ensure people aren't ignoring micro transactions and that they use them to buy stuff? I don't see how your immediate conclusion is that.

I never bothered with that exploit, still got most cars that I'd possibly want to drive including old relics that everyone seems to be found of and still had fun playing it, never had to grind for anything, while races paid crap, you get enough from wheelspins and auctions, overall when it comes to enjoyiment forza delivered

 

[wheelhp]

I never bothered with that exploit, still got most cars that I'd possibly want to drive including old relics that everyone seems to be found of and still had fun playing it, never had to grind for anything, while races paid crap, you get enough from wheelspins and auctions, overall when it comes to enjoyiment forza delivered

It's funny how forza delivers but people still want more. Whereas GT is losing it now with all these microtransactions implemented carelessly and the ridiculousness of the grinding, with lack of worthwhile events, and yet GT cannot be criticized by some.

Yeah Honestly if a game isn't going to force me to grind like GT7, then I'll not feel the need to search out for money making hacks etc. I can just enjoy the game instead. I won't need to care about IF I get a car, I know I'll just enjoy the ride till i get it. THat's what good game design should do

 

[Gt79]

It's funny how forza delivers but people still want more. Whereas GT is losing it now with all these microtransactions implemented carelessly and the ridiculousness of the grinding, with lack of worthwhile events, and yet GT cannot be criticized by some.

Yeah Honestly if a game isn't going to force me to grind like GT7, then I'll not feel the need to search out for money making hacks etc. I can just enjoy the game instead. I won't need to care about IF I get a car, I know I'll just enjoy the ride till i get it. THat's what good game design should do

That's the thing if playground games or Microsoft had even a slight hint about Mtx in a forza game it would be 5/10 at best, it would be lynched like fm7 which ironically didn't even had Mtx, it's just had lootboxes that were irrelevant, this however gets 9/10 and a big pass, haven't heard anyone who got paid for reviews even mention about this let alone a critic, how times change, who knows maybe fm8 will have Mtx as well seeing how sony gets a pass lol

 

[Scaff]

let alone a critic

IGN mentioned it front and centre in it's review as a potential concern, despite the fact, and this is key, that MTX were not fully enabled and reviewers had no idea exactly how they would work or what the cost would be at the time the review embargo lifted. IGN then went back and updated it's review to say, and I quote:

"Since the publishing of Gran Turismo 7’s reviews Sony has flicked the switch on its microtransactions and the news is as we suspected – and, in some ways, much worse."

Gran Turismo 7 Review - IGN

Mixing the original GT’s trendsetting format with GT Sport’s stern but very successful focus on competitive online racing, Gran Turismo 7 makes a few errors but is a potent podium performance from developer Polyphony Digital.

www.ign.com

It's really very difficult to for reviewers to comment on something that wasn't released with prices until after the reviews landed.

 

[Gt79]

Ign, clowns that give everything 10/10, who takes them seriously these days

 

[wheelhp]

Ign, clowns that give everything 10/10, who takes them seriously these days

It's surprising i know, but IGN's been clowns for so long that it seems they might actually start to get their act together.

But yes IGN is indeed a poor source

 

[Silver Arrows]

It's really very difficult to for reviewers to comment on something that wasn't released with prices until after the reviews landed.

And speaking strictly within this site, it would be incredibly valuable if GTPlanet's writing staff could use their editorial power and condemn the micro-transactions, and the way the game's economy is set up and that it is part of a pattern now that was set with GT6.

 

[Gt79]

It's surprising i know, but IGN's been clowns for so long that it seems they might actually start to get their act together.

But yes IGN is indeed a poor source

Every time they review a racing game they find the worst driver on their team who couldn't drive himself out of the driveway

 

[wheelhp]

Every time they review a racing game they find the worst driver on their team who couldn't drive himself out of the driveway

That used to be the case till they got Luke Riley for the IGN youtube reviews

 

[Gt79]

And speaking strictly within this site, it would be incredibly valuable if GTPlanet's writing staff could use their editorial power and condemn the micro-transactions, and the way the game's economy is set up and that it is part of a pattern now that was set with GT6.

Problem is the sheer cult following wouldn't care, they happily grind themselves into oblivion

 

[Scaff]

Ign, clowns that give everything 10/10, who takes them seriously these days

Every time they review a racing game they find the worst driver on their team who couldn't drive himself out of the driveway

Checks notes for the score IGN gave GT7....

...not a 10/10...

....checks scores IGN gave GT5, GT6 and GTS...

...all also not 10/10. In fact the total number of GT titles that have received a 10/10 from IGN is exactly zero.

However what you claimed was no reviewer brought GT 7 to task over MTX's, not only did IGN do just that before launch, but updated the review to be damning of them in regard to MTX's. as you quite clearly cried foul and then didn;t both reading the actual link provided, allow me to illustrate how wrong you are with your claim.

The original concern the raised before launch:
"Original, March 2, 2022: Gran Turismo 7 features the shady ability to top-up your in-game credit balance with real money via the PlayStation Store. At the time of publish the link to do so directly from the various purchase screens in-game is not functioning, so we're unable to see how much credits cost. It would seem that this is a different approach to the microtransactions added to GT Sport in 2018 (which was around a year after it was reported it would not feature microtransactions). The microtransactions added to GT Sport allowed cars to be directly purchased a la carte for real money; GT7 appears to be a cash-for-credits scheme. Either way, GT7's microtransactions have me feeling a bit cynical overall, especially considering how hard GT7 leans into making some of its coolest cars artificially scarce. Some rare cars will only pop up occasionally to buy before they're "sold out", and others require peculiar, time-limited, in-game invitations to actually purchase. It's easy to see how the fear of missing out may coax some players who are light on credits to shell out real cash to grab certain cars before they disappear again."


The updated evisceration of the way PD and Sony have implemented MTX's
"Since the publishing of Gran Turismo 7’s reviews Sony has flicked the switch on its microtransactions and the news is as we suspected – and, in some ways, much worse. There are several glaring problems associated with this new approach to microtransactions. At a basic level, the limited set of tiers means there’ll regularly be no way for a player to purchase exactly the amount of credits they may want for a particular car. Just want 1 million credits? Well, you’ll have to spend US$15 on packs of 750,000 credits and 250,000 credits, or US$20 on twice as many credits as you wanted. It’s a pretty gross approach considering all these cars are on the disc already and very much part of your initial purchase.

At a fundamental level, though, these credit prices are simply out of control. For example, if you wanted to fast-track your way behind the wheel of a 2014 Lamborghini Veneno in GT Sport, you could pay US$5 and purchase this car direct from the PS Store. But in GT7 this process is now rendered hideously more expensive. To purchase the Veneno in GT7, which costs 3,640,000 credits in-game, you’d need to hand over US$40 (£32/AU$60) for 4 million GT bucks – a 700% increase! These aren’t microtransactions anymore; they’re maxitransactions. Again, these aren’t even DLC add-ons, either; these are vehicles that are in the game already.

It's especially dismaying that the full scope of this new cash-for-credits scheme was only revealed after the review process was completed. Yes, it is an optional shortcut, but considering credits build fairly slowly via racing, you can’t sell cars from your garage, and a number of GT7’s coolest cars have been made artificially scarce, at what point do we call it predatory? With rare cars in the legendary dealer rotating in availability before they’re “sold out” (and unobtainable to you in your single-player game), and others that require peculiar, time-limited, in-game invitations to actually purchase, it’s definitely easy to see how some players who know they won’t have the time to build a large amount of credits by racing may be compelled to part with real cash to snag certain cars before they’re gone."

Emphasis mine, but it's clear that yes they did more than address this.

It's also rather hypocritical to condemn others for a myopic approach to something and then do exactly the same thing!

It's surprising i know, but IGN's been clowns for so long that it seems they might actually start to get their act together.

But yes IGN is indeed a poor source

Normally I would agree, but for GT they have, since Luke Reilly has been reviewing them been generally fair and objective, with the following scores awarded.

GT5 - 8.5/10
GT6 - 8/10
GTS - 7.5/10
GT 7 - 9/10

In pretty much every case the areas that needed calling out he has done, and the only score I feel has been over generous with is GT 7, however he (and IGN) have called out the MXTs in GT 7 very forcefully.

 

[///M3]

Problem is the sheer cult following wouldn't care, they happily grind themselves into oblivion

Who would have imagined that on a GT Forum?

I do agree the grind is real and the in game finance balancing isn’t good.

 

[Strittan]

Who would have imagined that on a GT Forum?

I do agree the grind is real and the in game finance balancing isn’t good.

That's the first time I think I've seen you acknowledge this. Good for you!

 

[wheelhp]

It's funny how no matter if people nor critics bash the publishers with the precision of a scalpel for micro-transactions .. Nothing gets done about it
Guess we have to hope some gambling laws come into play to drop the hammer sooner rather than later.

 

[Scaff]

It's funny how no matter if people nor critics bash the publishers with the precision of a scalpel for micro-transactions .. Nothing gets done about it
Guess we have to hope some gambling laws come into play to drop the hammer sooner rather than later.

Not always true, as has been mentioned a number of times, MS and T10, under community backlash, removed them from Forza.

Loot boxes to be removed from Forza Motorsport 7

Developer Turn 10 has announced that it will be removing Prize Crates - Forza Motorsport 7's version of loot boxes - fr…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[wheelhp]

Not always true, as has been mentioned a number of times, MS and T10, under community backlash, removed them from Forza.

Loot boxes to be removed from Forza Motorsport 7

Developer Turn 10 has announced that it will be removing Prize Crates - Forza Motorsport 7's version of loot boxes - fr…

www.eurogamer.net

Ahh guess I don't follow all the news, but seems that this is a bit of a rarity yes? I'd love to be wrong but I don't see how backlash from gamers can still have such control in future. Though I haven't the slightest how boycotts actually work and find it funny that in this case, the gamer's concerns were actually listened to? You'd think gamers have no voice on anything when money is at stake. I do recall something with Battlefront 2, Battlefield V and No man's sky but that's about it. My details are hazy too

 

[///M3]

That's the first time I think I've seen you acknowledge this. Good for you!

I’ve said it isn’t great all along, just that it doesn’t bother me personally.

PD made the choices they made for whatever reasons although cynically money is probably involved.

 

[Strittan]

Not always true, as has been mentioned a number of times, MS and T10, under community backlash, removed them from Forza.

Loot boxes to be removed from Forza Motorsport 7

Developer Turn 10 has announced that it will be removing Prize Crates - Forza Motorsport 7's version of loot boxes - fr…

www.eurogamer.net

Let's keep at it then!

This is why I get so annoyed by those who defend this ******** as well, because if everyone could just see that there's something obviously wrong, PD would have to do something eventually. It's religious behavior, really.

I’ve said it isn’t great all along, just that it doesn’t bother me personally.

PD made the choices they made for whatever reasons although cynically money is probably involved.

Aaaand we're back to square one. Probably, eh?

• 20,000,000 cr cap
• All relatively high paying races are the most boring ones
• You can't sell cars
• Desirable cars are available for a very limited time

How is it not obvious that money is definitely involved?

 

[Samus]

Ahh guess I don't follow all the news, but seems that this is a bit of a rarity yes? I'd love to be wrong but I don't see how backlash from gamers can still have such control in future. Though I haven't the slightest how boycotts actually work and find it funny that in this case, the gamer's concerns were actually listened to? You'd think gamers have no voice on anything when money is at stake. I do recall something with Battlefront 2, Battlefield V and No man's sky but that's about it. My details are hazy too

Large numbers of games started removing microtransactions in the last few years. Devs saw the ire from fans, and probably saw a drop in game sales as well. Some even grew a conscious!

https://gamerant.com/warframe-microtransaction-kubrow/

Have all games removed them? No, not even close, but they're definitely far less common than they were even 5 years ago.

 

[Ramosis]

Besides Gran Turismo is my favorite series since 1998, besides I'm really enjoying GT7, I must agree that the economy in GT7 is broken, worse than GT Sport.

 

[Strittan]

Large numbers of games started removing microtransactions in the last few years. Devs saw the ire from fans, and probably saw a drop in game sales as well. Some even grew a conscious!

https://gamerant.com/warframe-microtransaction-kubrow/

Have all games removed them? No, not even close, but they're definitely far less common than they were even 5 years ago.

And PD just decided to go all in on them. Hilarious and sad at the same time.

Silly, I know, but I actually almost teared up the other day when I was grinding Fishermans Ranch. What the hell am I doing, I thought, and what the hell has happened to my beloved Gran Turismo series, which I've loved since I was 9 or 10? Then I shut the game off.

I'm 32 now, and shouldn't care as much as I do, but I wanted GT7 to be the best game in the series, and I really thought it was gonna be up there, or at the very least a return to form compared to GT5, 6 and Sport, but it's the worst, despite the things I love about it. And it's solely because of micro transactions.

 

[Samus]

And PD just decided to go all in on them. Hilarious and sad at the same time.

Silly, I know, but I actually almost teared up the other day when I was grinding Fishermans Ranch. What the hell am I doing, I thought, and what the hell has happened to my beloved Gran Turismo series, which I've loved since I was 9 or 10? Then I shut the game off.

I'm 32 now, and shouldn't care as much as I do, but I wanted GT7 to be the best game in the series, and I really thought it was gonna be up there, or at the very least a return to form compared to GT5, 6 and Sport, but it's the worst, despite the things I love about it. And it's solely because of micro transactions.

One frustrating part is PD's silence. Not just on this, but any perceived issue with the game. They should be out in the ether discussing their new game with their customers, explaining their choices, why they did them, what they're planning to change in future. That's what most companies do in this modern age.

Do PD think they got this wrong, are they going to fix it, or is this their true vision for Gran Turismo? Do they actually expect people to play this game every day for 4 years solid? We don't know, and we'll probably never know.

Same with the current online multiplayer status, are they on their site explaining their rationale for the choices? Are they explaining why X Feature isn't present?

Even if they do change something, they'll just write some robotic patch notes and that's that.

"Adjusted credit payout of some races"
"Online Daily Races now have BoP limitations"
"The penalty system has been adjusted"

No why, no apology, no justification for the changes, no discussion of limitations they faced, no mention of what feedback they received to prompt the changes, nothing.

This site, and others, really need to be contacting Sony constantly requesting an interview with someone. We want to know what PD are doing with this game. Patch notes and a barebones, undetailed "We're gonna update these things sometime" post doesn't cut it in 2022.

It won't make a difference to the casual millions but if they want to keep ahold of their biggest fans, they need to be way more open.

This is your only product for the next few years PD, talk to us about it! Tell us why we should keep interested!

 

[///M3]

Let's keep at it then!

This is why I get so annoyed by those who defend this ******** as well, because if everyone could just see that there's something obviously wrong, PD would have to do something eventually. It's religious behavior, really.

Aaaand we're back to square one. Probably, eh?

• 20,000,000 cr cap
• All relatively high paying races are the most boring ones
• You can't sell cars
• Desirable cars are available for a very limited time

How is it not obvious that money is definitely involved?

Probably, was deliberate as there are other balancing things that have to go on besides monetising it post launch.

I personally just play the game. I also prefer the option to ignore the MTX because the other monetisation options are worse, like season passes….

At least we don’t have to pay for content we don’t even know what that content will be.

I do empathise, I do dislike the way the game is currently structured for virtual finance and augmenting that with pay options isn’t good, what I do find weird is that the MTX just aren’t good value which defeats the purpose somewhat but hey ho, a bean counter somewhere did the maths.

All said and done, it’s a driving game for me, and I get to drive interesting stuff which is becoming harder and harder to do so for ME the credits are a secondary thing. For others they want different things from the game and I get that also.