Why no one is talking about how ridiculously expensive the Jaguar XJ13 is?

[Silver Arrows]

Even if they do change something, they'll just write some robotic patch notes and that's that.

"Adjusted credit payout of some races"
"Online Daily Races now have BoP limitations"
"The penalty system has been adjusted"

No why, no apology, no justification for the changes, no discussion of limitations they faced, no mention of what feedback they received to prompt the changes, nothing.

To give a point of comparison, Treyarch's final patch notes for Black Ops Cold War, especially in regards to Vanguard integration with unlocks; and the full glossary of Raven's patch notes for Warzone in the first season of Vanguard integration.

Note for the second one the in-depth stats for weapon balancing changes, and maybe most importantly, Raven's reasoning as to why they're balancing the weapons:

We would like to take a moment to discuss some of our upcoming plans as well as how our Weapon balance philosophy will be changing in Caldera. We will be looking to take on a more incremental approach to Weapon nerfs. We understand it can be frustrating to commit a great deal of time to a Weapon to have its viability completely stripped in an unexpected balance patch. We would like to reiterate that our north star is Weapon diversity. With that being said, we feel it is appropriate to announce that in the near future we will be making some adjustments to the Light Machine Gun Charlie (VG) and the Submachine Gun Charlie (VG) - with the intent of closing the gap between these two Weapons and their competitors. In addition, we will be toning down what is often referred to as ‘Visual Recoil’ on Vanguard Assault Rifles. We feel this will help promote a healthier, more diverse pool of mid to long-range Weapons.

The Akimbo Double Barrel (VG) was able to consistently achieve lethality at extreme ranges. While we agree that Shotguns should be the most lethal option within close quarters, once that range begins to encroach on Submachine Gun territory, we must intervene. It may seem peculiar that we are removing the Damage Range downside from the Attachment given previous statements, however a more significant reduction to its overall Damage will make the Akimbo Double Barrel (VG) feel less oppressive at extreme ranges while maintaining its effectiveness in close quarters.

What do we get from PD? Robotic patch notes more often then not, that don't even outline all of what has been changed, and silhouette teasers for any and all new content. And practical radio silence 95% of the time.

 

[Johnnn]

This thread makes me happy because even hardcore fans see the biggest flaw of GT7. There is still some hope they remove that ***** and fix the economy.

And old games from 97 are not even relevant today at all. Different times, different audience.

 

[Silver Arrows]

This thread makes me happy because even hardcore fans see the biggest flaw of GT7. There is still some hope they remove that ***** and fix the economy.

And old games from 97 are not even relevant today at all. Different times, different audience.

There are people who weren't even alive when GT was originally released. By this point, it's clear that the 'modern' beginning of the GT series starts at GT4, since that's been the northern star that Polyphony have based 95% of their games on since then, both in terms of ideals, and for a good chunk of them, actual content wise!

 

[QI_HG]

From all the pre-launch hype, it felt like this would be a return to greatness for GT, with all the classic features we loved from previous games (2-3-4)... with better visuals. All we got was the better visuals, it feels like.

I'm in the too old to find grinding 20 hours for a single car acceptable camp. There's no proper career mode when you're done with the Cafe Menus. There's nothing to build toward. There's no way to use the cars you have purposefully. No way to earn the 375 cars I don't have without repeatedly doing the same thing (mindless grinding).

That is not an amazing simulation experience. They forgot to connect playing and collecting cars. Well, they didn't, now did they? You have to pay for the cars.

I don't see how that is justified when I've already paid full price for the game (I even got the premium edition...). I paid for the content, but there's no realistic way for me to ever use the cars in the game.

And it's hilarious that people keep saying you can earn 97,500 in the Fisherman's 1 lap race. I can't. I always finish second, so it's 50,000 or so credits. I'm not awesome at this game (or any game for that matter). But it shouldn't matter. I should be able to race a bunch of cars on a bunch of tracks, join various championships, and earn enough credits to get a great new car every hour. That would still require 375 hours of playing to get all the cars. More if you count all the credits you have to spend to upgrade the cars, but new engines because the car won't let you revert changes...

All that to say, they've ****ed up Gran Turismo even more. They've made it pointless for the average gamer. Which is to say almost everyone who will buy the game.

Will they fix it some how? Maybe. But that's unlikely to happen for many, many months. They'll want to hold the line and see if people will en up caving and buying the credits they need to own the cars they want to play with. I expect most people will do like I will and just stop playing and call it a loss. Wait for some other game to offer the type of experience we're looking for, or just go play Forza. Maybe someone will hack the game and make it 1 - playable offline, 2 - unlock all the cars and make all the upgrades free. I just want to be able to play with all the cars. Clearly, Polyphony Digital doesn't want that, which makes me sad.

 

[Techlet]

The absolute most I can squeeze out of custom races is 218,317 Cr* for an hour of racing. That's nearly 200 hours to hit the credit cap.

At 2 hours per day, doing this exact setup, you would only get 1,746,538 Cr in 4 days.

For reference, the important bits of the setup are these:
Nordschleife. 60 minute endurance race. 20 cars, player starting in 20th. Opponent Selection set to Select by Car Class, Car Class set to Gr.1. Opponent Difficulty set to Professional.

*Fishermans Ranch can still pass that much money in about 13 minutes, assuming no clean race bonus.

Edit: The reason I limit the race to one hour is that credits per time is linear up to an hour, and then drops drastically after that point. If you want money, it is worse to do any custom race over an hour.

This is so much worse than I thought. When $20mil cars start showing up in the Hagerty shop, you could literally play custom races nonstop for 4 days straight and wouldn't even come close. So the only options end up going right back to:

1. Fisherman's
2. Bust out the wallet

Utter insanity.

 

[Gt79]

This is so much worse than I thought. When $20mil cars start showing up in the Hagerty shop, you could literally play custom races nonstop for 4 days straight and wouldn't even come close. So the only options end up going right back to:

1. Fisherman's
2. Bust out the wallet

Utter insanity.

But you not supposed to get it right away, wait a month, a year or two, you want everything handed to you over just like that? Then sell your kidney or something... Oh wait you already did to buy scalped ps5? No worries there are other ways to make cash, heck fr waiting for you, just another 1000 times more 🤣

Checks notes for the score IGN gave GT7....

...not a 10/10...

....checks scores IGN gave GT5, GT6 and GTS...

...all also not 10/10. In fact the total number of GT titles that have received a 10/10 from IGN is exactly zero.

However what you claimed was no reviewer brought GT 7 to task over MTX's, not only did IGN do just that before launch, but updated the review to be damning of them in regard to MTX's. as you quite clearly cried foul and then didn;t both reading the actual link provided, allow me to illustrate how wrong you are with your claim.

The original concern the raised before launch:
"Original, March 2, 2022: Gran Turismo 7 features the shady ability to top-up your in-game credit balance with real money via the PlayStation Store. At the time of publish the link to do so directly from the various purchase screens in-game is not functioning, so we're unable to see how much credits cost. It would seem that this is a different approach to the microtransactions added to GT Sport in 2018 (which was around a year after it was reported it would not feature microtransactions). The microtransactions added to GT Sport allowed cars to be directly purchased a la carte for real money; GT7 appears to be a cash-for-credits scheme. Either way, GT7's microtransactions have me feeling a bit cynical overall, especially considering how hard GT7 leans into making some of its coolest cars artificially scarce. Some rare cars will only pop up occasionally to buy before they're "sold out", and others require peculiar, time-limited, in-game invitations to actually purchase. It's easy to see how the fear of missing out may coax some players who are light on credits to shell out real cash to grab certain cars before they disappear again."


The updated evisceration of the way PD and Sony have implemented MTX's
"Since the publishing of Gran Turismo 7’s reviews Sony has flicked the switch on its microtransactions and the news is as we suspected – and, in some ways, much worse. There are several glaring problems associated with this new approach to microtransactions. At a basic level, the limited set of tiers means there’ll regularly be no way for a player to purchase exactly the amount of credits they may want for a particular car. Just want 1 million credits? Well, you’ll have to spend US$15 on packs of 750,000 credits and 250,000 credits, or US$20 on twice as many credits as you wanted. It’s a pretty gross approach considering all these cars are on the disc already and very much part of your initial purchase.

At a fundamental level, though, these credit prices are simply out of control. For example, if you wanted to fast-track your way behind the wheel of a 2014 Lamborghini Veneno in GT Sport, you could pay US$5 and purchase this car direct from the PS Store. But in GT7 this process is now rendered hideously more expensive. To purchase the Veneno in GT7, which costs 3,640,000 credits in-game, you’d need to hand over US$40 (£32/AU$60) for 4 million GT bucks – a 700% increase! These aren’t microtransactions anymore; they’re maxitransactions. Again, these aren’t even DLC add-ons, either; these are vehicles that are in the game already.

It's especially dismaying that the full scope of this new cash-for-credits scheme was only revealed after the review process was completed. Yes, it is an optional shortcut, but considering credits build fairly slowly via racing, you can’t sell cars from your garage, and a number of GT7’s coolest cars have been made artificially scarce, at what point do we call it predatory? With rare cars in the legendary dealer rotating in availability before they’re “sold out” (and unobtainable to you in your single-player game), and others that require peculiar, time-limited, in-game invitations to actually purchase, it’s definitely easy to see how some players who know they won’t have the time to build a large amount of credits by racing may be compelled to part with real cash to snag certain cars before they’re gone."

Emphasis mine, but it's clear that yes they did more than address this.

It's also rather hypocritical to condemn others for a myopic approach to something and then do exactly the same thing!

Normally I would agree, but for GT they have, since Luke Reilly has been reviewing them been generally fair and objective, with the following scores awarded.

GT5 - 8.5/10
GT6 - 8/10
GTS - 7.5/10
GT 7 - 9/10

In pretty much every case the areas that needed calling out he has done, and the only score I feel has been over generous with is GT 7, however he (and IGN) have called out the MXTs in GT 7 very forcefully.

Actually I never said they gave gt7 10,i said that's what they do or did usually, no game deserves 10,especially in our time when everything is early access, gt7 is a good example, they broke more things than they fixed with last patch
Anyway like I said, I stopped taking ign or any other highly paid reviewers in consideration years ago

 

[///M3]

Actually I never said they gave gt7 10,i said that's what they do or did usually, no game deserves 10,especially in our time when everything is early access, gt7 is a good example, they broke more things than they fixed with last patch
Anyway like I said, I stopped taking ign or any other highly paid reviewers in consideration years ago

You are a very cynical but passionate person I’ll give you that.

 

[Samus]

But you not supposed to get it right away, wait a month, a year or two, you want everything handed to you over just like that? Then sell your kidney or something... Oh wait you already did to buy scalped ps5? No worries there are other ways to make cash, heck fr waiting for you, just another 1000 times more 🤣

Why is it on sale now then? Why don't PD wait a year or two to start offering these cars for sale? I know very much the reason, do you?

Oh and by the way even a year or two down the line the most you can have in your "free" credits is 20M. So whether you gain that 20M in a week or a year is irrelevant. You've still only got 20M at any one point in time. So if one of these cars comes available in two years, and you buy it, then another one comes along a week later you're back in the same position. Not enough money and not enough time to grind out enough credits. So then what? Wait another 2 years for that second car?

Is this meant to be us when we've completed our collection?

 

[Johnnn]

But you not supposed to get it right away, wait a month, a year or two, you want everything handed to you over just like that? Then sell your kidney or something... Oh wait you already did to buy scalped ps5? No worries there are other ways to make cash, heck fr waiting for you, just another 1000 times more 🤣

I paid full price week ago so I want it now. Maybe we will all die next month, there is no reason to wait. My game, my cars, easy.

 

[Techlet]

But you not supposed to get it right away, wait a month, a year or two, you want everything handed to you over just like that? Then sell your kidney or something... Oh wait you already did to buy scalped ps5? No worries there are other ways to make cash, heck fr waiting for you, just another 1000 times more 🤣

If PD keeps things as they are, the only thing that'll change in "a month, a year or two" will be that I'd have lost any motivation to continue playing.

It takes 200 hours to get $20mil if you're not doing Fisherman's. How do you squeeze 200 hours of game time in 4 days?

 

[Gt79]

So this game having game breaking bugs, people can't progress, broken events is not considered as an early access? I'm being cynical or an actual realist?
And ign being a sell out is widely known or you want them publicly to admit that, yeah wait for that

 

[Techlet]

I’m not sure what else to do other than drive cars.

But right now the only reasonable way to get more time-gated cars to drive is by grinding Fisherman's. Which leaves you very little time to drive the actual cars you wanted to get.

 

[///M3]

But right now the only reasonable way to get more time-gated cars to drive is by grinding Fisherman's. Which leaves you very little time to drive the actual cars you wanted to get.

If you care about them. I mean there are literally hundreds of real car clubs dedicated to cheaper stuff in the game.

As I said, I lust a few of the halo cars but mostly they disappoint you and also I like to drive stuff I don’t have but could own.

Each to their own. The legendary cars aren’t the reason I bought the game.

I’ll keep saying it, I understand why people are disappointed. I didn’t make the game, and clearly enjoy it differently to some people.

Horses for courses.

 

[Gt79]

I paid full price week ago so I want it now. Maybe we will all die next month, there is no reason to wait. My game, my cars, easy.

Pffft now you just being cynical and narcissistic 😂

 

[BirdDog72]

If you did decide to save up for the Jag, is there an event in the game where you can actually race it?

 

[Techlet]

If you care about them. I mean there are literally hundreds of real car clubs dedicated to cheaper stuff in the game.

Each to their own. The legendary cars aren’t the reason I bought the game.

A more balanced Cr payout across the board will mean those who want the legendary cars will be able to get them without going insane on Fisherman's, and those who want to drive cheap cars will still be able to drive them as they do now.

Being able to buy legendary cars in a reasonable manner doesn't mean the cheaper cars will suddenly be unavailable.

Other people being able to drive the cars they want to drive doesn't affect your enjoyment of the game but it will absolutely affect theirs.

 

[Com Fox]

But you not supposed to get it right away, wait a month, a year or two, you want everything handed to you over just like that? Then sell your kidney or something... Oh wait you already did to buy scalped ps5? No worries there are other ways to make cash, heck fr waiting for you, just another 1000 times more

No we don't want everything handed to us but we want effort and skills to be rewarded, not patience.

If something took a month to unlock because I wasn't that skilled to win the high price races, that's on me not being good at the game and the game wanting me to get better.

If something took a month to unlock because it was available until then, then that's on the game. No matter how skilled I am, it can't come any faster

 

[JDMKING13]

If you care about them. I mean there are literally hundreds of real car clubs dedicated to cheaper stuff in the game.

As I said, I lust a few of the halo cars but mostly they disappoint you and also I like to drive stuff I don’t have but could own.

Each to their own. The legendary cars aren’t the reason I bought the game.

I’ll keep saying it, I understand why people are disappointed. I didn’t make the game, and clearly enjoy it differently to some people.

Horses for courses.

Between all my cars and the events, I’m using every car for each event and it’s pretty cool to see their strengths and weakness. The sensation you get from each car makes the driving fun! I already have enough for the GT1 Porsche and the F40… my invitation ends Friday so I’m trying to see if I can snag this FXXK… After that I’m going to chill and build up this UCD Garage!

 

[Gt79]

Seems like you need to put #sarcasm this days, because people never read past first sentence smh

 

[///M3]

A more balanced Cr payout across the board will mean those who want the legendary cars will be able to get them without going insane on Fisherman's, and those who want to drive cheap cars will still be able to drive them as they do now.

Being able to buy legendary cars in a reasonable manner doesn't mean the cheaper cars will suddenly be unavailable.

Other people being able to drive the cars they want to drive doesn't affect your enjoyment of the game but it will absolutely affect theirs.

Absolutely, and every discussion needs two sides.

I think the reality is that we all play for different things and want different things. That’s cool. And like I said I understand why it doesn’t work for people atm, it’s also not something I am personally worried about.

 

[Gt79]

If you did decide to save up for the Jag, is there an event in the game where you can actually race it?

Yes, trials, custom races, nothing that will get you actual income, because this game just became a second job for some
Not a sarcasm

 

[Johnnn]

Seems like you need to put #sarcasm this days, because people never read past first sentence smh

Some people don't understand sarcasm. Some are not native speakers and don't understand it either. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Strittan]

Absolutely, and every discussion needs two sides.

Really? If I say Adolf Hitler was a bad person, someone needs to disagree?

 

[///M3]

Really? If I say Adolf Hitler was a bad person, someone needs to disagree?

what the actual **** are you on about.

I literally said several times I understand the economy in the game doesn’t work for some people and for others it’s not something that matters to them.

It is ok for people to disagree about a computer game they choose to to buy or want the best from.

I’m not sure I can relate that to genocide or what is now modern day genocide happening in the Ukraine.

But yeah…hitler argument's. The actual planet are you on.

 

[Techlet]

Absolutely, and every discussion needs two sides.

I think the reality is that we all play for different things and want different things. That’s cool. And like I said I understand why it doesn’t work for people atm, it’s also not something I am personally worried about.

Then why bother arguing on PD's behalf with what amounts to "I think it's fine because it only affects other people?"

 

[Com Fox]

But it’s ok to be compared to hitler.

I want to delete my account but apparently you can’t actually do that.

And they were fully censored expletives and go through my post history from 2006 to now and you won’t see swearing.

This place is toxic and like hotel California.

Really? If I say Adolf Hitler was a bad person, someone needs to disagree?

That doesn't sound you were compared to Hitler. That was just an extreme example on why statements don't always have a point to disagree on.

 

[///M3]

That doesn't sound you were compared to Hitler. That was just an extreme example on why statements don't always have a point to disagree on.

A poor choice of example regardless of sentiment.

 

[Techlet]

Because I’m arguing on my behalf. Novel concept I guess when everyone else is altruistic in their reasons?

But your take on this is effectively "PD wanted other players to feel disappointment so it's fine. I know other player don't like it but it doesn't affect me and shouldn't be changed because PD designed it this way."

 

[///M3]

But your take on this is effectively "PD wanted other players to feel disappointment so it's fine. I know other player don't like it but it doesn't affect me and shouldn't be changed because PD designed it this way."

My take was if you read my actual words were that I get it sucks for people, it doesn’t work for them.

I didn’t make the game, just have an opinion about it.

The economy isn’t balanced correctly vs the races to do.

What else can I say over and over again, yet people seem to quote me and find a scratching post to quell their complaining itch.

If anything lobby the mods who actually speak to PD and Kaz….

 

[Tired Tyres]

It would take me about 10-12 hours on Blue Moon Bay in GTS to buy this car. It would take me about 8 hours on Fisherman's Ranch.

None of which add up to quality game time. That's the problem.