Why Trial Mountain, Grand Valley, and Deep Forest Aren't in GT Sport (Yet)

phl0w
Pretty sure they blew their licensing budget on Suzuka, which is said to be the most expensive track to get rights for. Ever wondered why there’s no Suzuka in AC or PC? ;)
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Whilst it's expensive, it doesn't mean it's the same fee for every dev. Also I seriously doubt Spa and RBR aren't in GTS because PDI are skint after ponying up for Susuka.
 
TEX36
Monza - Spa - Red Bull ......
Wonder why they are missing?
Click to expand...
Costs muchos $$$ to license each track sadly. But I agree would be great to have more real life tracks. I'd be happy seeing more daily races on the N24 though....

YukinoSuzuka
And what about Tsukuba ?
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Me too! Is the only one I would bring back.

The overall game is not lacking in any way without some of the old tracks IMO for exactly the reason that was stated: they are fictional. I would however love to see GT try and produce the ultimate fictional track with all the best corners in the world. Imagine:

Silverstone: Maggotts & Becketts
Spa: Eau Rouge
COTA: T2>6
Sepang: T5 & 6
Turkey: T7
....leading into T4 from Hockenheim (Hairpin).....
...leading onto China: Long back straight...
....followed by another hairpin. WoW! Mega overtaking opps.
Also would have to include that amazing T1, 2, 3, 4 from Magny-Cours...
 
Stu-Evo
Costs muchos $$$ to license each track sadly. But I agree would be great to have more real life tracks. I'd be happy seeing more daily races on the N24 though....



Me too! Is the only one I would bring back.

The overall game is not lacking in any way without some of the old tracks IMO for exactly the reason that was stated: they are fictional. I would however love to see GT try and produce the ultimate fictional track with all the best corners in the world. Imagine:

Silverstone: Maggotts & Becketts
Spa: Eau Rouge
COTA: T2>6
Sepang: T5 & 6
Turkey: T7
....leading into T4 from Hockenheim (Hairpin).....
...leading onto China: Long back straight...
....followed by another hairpin. WoW! Mega overtaking opps.
Also would have to include that amazing T1, 2, 3, 4 from Magny-Cours...
Click to expand...
Does it cost a lot of money?

Seriously, is that an excuse?

Man, PD is one of Sony's powerfull and largest budget companies.

I bet PD has a much bigger budget than Turn10 and Slighy Studios. And yet these two softhouses have brought more than 30 racing tracks, including the aforementioned Spa, Monza and A1 Ring.

In fact, the PD is very slow in their work.

Yesterday, in the GtPlanet article, Kaz said that STILL were working on Deep Forest. Just make sure you have an idea of how slow the company is.

The problem is not money. It's speed and planning.
 
CLowndes888
Yeah but the track didn't originally have ripple strips that big. By the sounds of things, the ripple strips were much much larger than the cars when imported into GT Sport. By more than 30 centimetres I think.

So we can expect Deep Forest to come sometime next year, right? I hope we get some others but I have a few questions about them. These were questions I had before the release of this game; before the track list was known.
-Some sections of the original circuits may not be safe according to FIA standards. Does the layout get altered in certain places to fit their regulations?
-If it doesn't fit the regulations, is it simply withheld from use within the FIA Online Championships?
-This presents a moral dilemma - do you abide by the FIA's regulations and kill the character, or do you simply remake the classic variation? Warts and all?
-Does the FIA even have the ability to prevent the inclusion of tracks if it doesn't fit their regulations?
You see, the new tracks were created specifically for the FIA Online Championships, following rules which allow it to be used in the Online Championships - there's tarmac run-off, plenty of big curbs to clobber and a safe entry into the pits. I hope the FIA doesn't make it difficult for PD to implement the classic tracks we know and love.
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While unrealistic in terms of workflow (and time), I'd imagine PD making two versions of the track: Deep Forest 90's and Deep Forest 2017, just like Fuji Speedway in GT4 (80s, 90s, 2005). One track fulfills the FIA regulations, and the other is simply a nostalgic treat.
 
BrunusCL82
Does it cost a lot of money?

Seriously, is that an excuse?

Man, PD is one of Sony's powerfull and largest budget companies.

I bet PD has a much bigger budget than Turn10 and Slighy Studios. And yet these two softhouses have brought more than 30 racing tracks, including the aforementioned Spa, Monza and A1 Ring.

In fact, the PD is very slow in their work.

Yesterday, in the GtPlanet article, Kaz said that STILL were working on Deep Forest. Just make sure you have an idea of how slow the company is.

The problem is not money. It's speed and planning.
Click to expand...


The situation here is complicated, PD belongs to SIE, that means that their income does not remain them, and the director of SIE Yoshida had said that very few internal games really generated profits, most likely the income of GT reinvested in other games ...

Now, PD has the FIA with them, are not they supposed to give them facilities with the circuits? This is mere speculation xD The reality is that PD management from PS3 has been bad enough, but in his defense I have to say that only 110 workers work, so the comparisons are bad, they even get worse because PD has a lot artistic direction, and that takes work, I do not even want to mention the task of making fictitious circuits, that alone should take a lot of time! And with the quality it has even more!
 
F2X M3CSL
I have read the whole thread and several people seem to think alike. Obviously Kaz also stumbled across the idea that the classic fictional tracks need to be reworked in order to make them look authentic. Long before GT Sport was released I also thought that they need an overhaul because it was just odd for me to see e.g. GT500 race on circuits with natural barriers and zero run-off areas.

So back in 2015 I have started working on a modernized version of Trial Mountain. Because I really suck at drawing I used SketchUp to visualize my ideas.

As you can see I didn't alter the layout. I tried to replicate the circuits elevation changes as close as possible because the combination of them and the actual layout is what makes it special.

View attachment 702465

The game version of turn 1 doesn't have any run-off at all although it is a pretty fast and demanding corner. Therefore I added a small strip of asphalt after the grass in order to allow the driver to catch the vehicle before it slips into the gravel trap. The pit exit has also been altered because cars leaving the pit in the game version are going straight into the driving line for turn 1.

View attachment 702466

The Tunnel in turn 4 has been ditched by me because you arrive at pretty high speed after the fast left-hand kink which is turn 3 and subsequently run-off is needed which is impossible/totally unrealistic if you have a tunnel.

View attachment 702467

I have also revised the pit entry and the final chicane to make the pit more spacious and to provide a more safe final turn. I haven't touched the montaneous part of the circuit yet.

View attachment 702463

View attachment 702462

View attachment 702464

Edit: Maybe we need a seperate thread to discuss needed changes for this and other original circuits and to make side by side comparisons.
Click to expand...
Awesome work, but I mean, you still can leave the tunnel.
9511623.jpg
 
05XR8
Awesome work, but I mean, you still can leave the tunnel.
Click to expand...

I don't have problems with tunnels in general and I think the long tunnel on the back straight of Trial Mountain is fine. But the first one is ridiculous in my oppinion. Because it is more less a hair pin with a heavy braking zone in front of it. That's also the difference to the tunnel at Monaco. Monaco's tunnel is fast, yes. But you approach it from a tight right hander and than you just accelerate through it.
 
It would be radical if next-gen GT classic courses gave real-world settings to their original track identity. Sort of like how Dragon Trail's setting is suggested by amazing backdrops in Croatia. There was a suggestion that Cape Ring was set in Mt. Aso in Japan after users here identified the lookout view from the helix turn to match a view in Kyushu island. Apricot Hill had stars in the night sky that pointed its location to be in an equatorial position suggesting somewhere in South America. I'd love to see this, perhaps people can identify the old courses even greater with a real-world setting given to them.
 
Ameer67
Here's hoping the original tracks don't lose much of their personality if they do get redesigns. I trust PD on this one though, as I'd say GT6's versions of Apricot Hill and Midfield turned out quite nice.

Meanwhile on Dragon Trail...

View attachment 702261
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That was the exact thing that came to my mind and i know he is fooling us again about that ''need time to redesing'' thing.
 
BrunusCL82
Oh, man.

I'm not happy with promises.

I calm down with concrete actions.

After five years of GT6, GTS appears as a skinny and malnourished game in relation to content.

We can not rest easy in the face of these concrete facts.

If Yamauchi-san told me that in 2018 he will bring more than 20 tracks and 200 cars, i would be happy and calm.

But I doubt very much about the history of PD. It's too slow. Too much. A lot.

See for yourself! Kaz just admitted that they are only now reworking in Deep Forest!

What? What have they done in the last five years?

So, by the way, if there are 5 circuits in 2018, it will be a herculean victory.
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karelpipa
Why would FIA do this?
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It's a way of ensuring there's a fair playing field with no possibility of cheating which would of course tarnish their reputation. It is however, not technically impossible to verify offline saves with the proper methods as is already currently done on other titles so it's just a bit of paranoia on their part.
 
silverman_GT
While unrealistic in terms of workflow (and time), I'd imagine PD making two versions of the track: Deep Forest 90's and Deep Forest 2017, just like Fuji Speedway in GT4 (80s, 90s, 2005). One track fulfills the FIA regulations, and the other is simply a nostalgic treat.
Click to expand...
That's definitely an idea, but they're better off just including the one variation to save time.
05XR8
Awesome work, but I mean, you still can leave the tunnel.
9511623.jpg
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You can't leave out the tunnel, it's an integral part of the circuit!
 
BrunusCL82
Deep Forest is 3.6km. Could increase to 4.6km. It would increase some straight lines and curves.

Even to help behave twenty cars in online mode. It will spin very tight and with several stragglers.

Or rather, it could create variations. New and alternative tracks variations, just as it was done in Kyoto.
Click to expand...

silverman_GT
While unrealistic in terms of workflow (and time), I'd imagine PD making two versions of the track: Deep Forest 90's and Deep Forest 2017, just like Fuji Speedway in GT4 (80s, 90s, 2005). One track fulfills the FIA regulations, and the other is simply a nostalgic treat.
Click to expand...

I had a quick race on Deep Mountain on GT6 this evening and was surprised how undetailed it felt after playing Sport. It was always a favourite of mine, but now it feels like it needs more detail to judge braking points etc. It is also pretty short, but because it's just in a forest, I reckon it would be simple enough to add an extra loop as a second layout rather than scaling the existing shape.
 
Chris___75
Imagine gt sport with seattle, red rock valley, complex string, deep forest, trial mountain, Laguna seca, and hell even the test track. Ahh a pipe dream.
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I don't understand why this isn't possible.

All the ******** VGT cars that no-one wants and none of the classic tracks. It's weird.

Clearly the game is aimed at someone else. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy what's there but if you've played previous GTs then what's there is limited.
 
250Cal
I don't understand why this isn't possible.

All the ******** VGT cars that no-one wants and none of the classic tracks. It's weird.

Clearly the game is aimed at someone else. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy what's there but if you've played previous GTs then what's there is limited.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think there are a lot of people scratching their heads about that one.

Part of the FIA requirement would have been a GT3 and GT4 car available from as many manufacturers as possible, hence the stupid VWs and cars forced into categories where they obviously don't belong.

The level of detail in the circuits we have is certainly impressive, but they've had a really long time - if there's too much work, hire some more people!
 
The lack of tracks is nuts when you look at what has gone before. The original game on the what is now archaic PS1:

Gran Turismo 1

Original Circuits

Autumn Ring
Autumn Ring Mini
Deep Forest Raceway
Grand Valley Speedway
Grand Valley East
High Speed Ring
Test Course
Trial Mountain Circuit

City Circuits
Clubman Stage Route 5
Special Stage Route 5
Special Stage Route 11

Look at GT5, for a true understanding:

Gran Turismo 5

Fuji Speedway
Fuji Speedway　F
Fuji Speedway GT

Suzuka Circuit
Suzuka CircuitWeather
Suzuka Circuit East Course

Daytona International Speedway
Superspeedway - Daytona
Road Course - Daytona

Tsukuba Circuit

Circuit de la Sarthe 2009Time / Weather
Circuit de la Sarthe 2009 No Chicane
Circuit de la Sarthe 2005
Circuit de la Sarthe 2005 No Chicane

Nürburgring
Nürburgring NordschleifeTime
Nürburgring GP/F
Nürburgring 24hTime / Weather
Nürburgring GP/D
Nürburgring typeV

Indianapolis Motorspeedway
Superspeedway - Indy
Road Course - Indy

Autodromo Nazionale Monza
Autodromo Nazionale MonzaWeather
Autodromo Nazionale Monza No Chicane

The Top Gear Test Track

Laguna Seca Raceway

Original

High Speed Ring
High Speed RingWeather
High Speed Ring Reverse

Cape Ring
Cape Ring
Cape Ring Inside
Cape Ring North
Cape Ring Outside
Cape Ring South

Autumn Ring
Autumn Ring
Autumn Ring / Reverse
Autumn Ring Mini
Autumn Ring Mini / Reverse

Deep Forest Raceway
Deep Forest Raceway
Deep Forest Raceway / Reverse

Grand Valley Speedway
Grand Valley Speedway
Grand Valley Speedway / Reverse
Grand Valley East Section
Grand Valley East Section / Reverse

Eiger Nordwand Track
Eiger Nordwand Track Short TrackWeather
Eiger Nordwand Track Short Track / Reverse

Trial Mountain Circuit
Trial Mountain Circuit
Trial Mountain Circuit / Reverse

City

London
London
London / Reverse

Rome
Rome
Rome / Reverse

Circuito de Madrid
Circuito de Madrid
Circuito de Madrid / Reverse
Circuito de Madrid Mini
Circuito de Madrid Mini/ Reverse

Tokyo R246
Tokyo R246
Tokyo R246 / Reverse

Côte d'Azur
Côte d'Azur

Special Stage Route 5
Special Stage Route 5 / Night
Special Stage Route 5 / Reverse / Night
Clubman Stage Route 5 / Night
Clubman Stage Route 5 / Reverse/ Night

Special Stage Route 7
Special Stage Route 7 / NightWeather

Dirt and Snow

Eiger Nordwand Track
Eiger Nordwand Track K Trail
Eiger Nordwand Track K Trail / Reverse
Eiger Nordwand Track G Trail
Eiger Nordwand Track G Trail / Reverse
Eiger Nordwand Track W Trail
Eiger Nordwand Track W Trail / Reverse

Toscana
ToscanaTime
Toscana / ReverseTime

Chamonix
Chamonix MainWeather
Chamonix EastWeather
Chamonix WestWeather
Chamonix MiniWeather

For reference:
https://www.gran-turismo.com/gb/products
 
Last edited:
Tekku
I'm glad if they bring Deep Forest to GTS. It's also my favorite GT track. :)
Click to expand...

Hi guys.:cheers:I am 52 yrs old and have had all the PS consols; from the PS 1/2/3 and now the PS4 PRO.On the other hand, it's my first time joining a dedicated forum for PS and especially GT series.Very glad to see how many PS lovers/ players are out there and that is something that makes me really happy.:D
Deep Forest is also my favorite (or one of the favorites...) Hope they'll bring it back to GT Sport as soon as possible along with some other circuits.:bowdown:

Regarding the famous Dragon circuit allegedly located in Croatia.Well I am from Croatia and the only race circuit in my country is named Grobnik and it has not any resemblance to the Dragon circuit whatsoever.Below is the link to the official website of the Grobnik circuit which is located near the Adriatic coast but still some 15 km. inland and there is no chance to see the sea from it.The mountain near the circuit is about 900 meters high and not 1600 as officially stated.->link below,

http://www.grobnik.hr/pista/Dobrodoshli.hr.html

As you can see on the top of the page on the left side there is a layout of the Grobnik circuit->compare it to the Dragon circuit and you'll see that they are completely different.

It's not the difference between the tracks that bothers me, it s the fact that Kaz said that it's a real existing circuit but it's not true.:banghead:

We had more than a few laughs here in Croatia when we first saw this phantom circuit....

Anyways, all the best in the new 2018 to all GT aficionados :cheers:

Cheers from Croatia. :gtplanet:
 
silverman_GT
While unrealistic in terms of workflow (and time), I'd imagine PD making two versions of the track: Deep Forest 90's and Deep Forest 2018, just like Fuji Speedway in GT4 (80s, 90s, 2005). One track fulfills the FIA regulations, and the other is simply a nostalgic treat.
Click to expand...
Fixed^
 
250Cal
The lack of tracks is nuts when you look at what has gone before. The original game on the what is now archaic PS1:

Gran Turismo 1

Original Circuits

Autumn Ring
Autumn Ring Mini
Deep Forest Raceway
Grand Valley Speedway
Grand Valley East
High Speed Ring
Test Course
Trial Mountain Circuit

City Circuits
Clubman Stage Route 5
Special Stage Route 5
Special Stage Route 11

Look at GT5, for a true understanding:

Gran Turismo 5

Fuji Speedway
Fuji Speedway　F
Fuji Speedway GT

Suzuka Circuit
Suzuka CircuitWeather
Suzuka Circuit East Course

Daytona International Speedway
Superspeedway - Daytona
Road Course - Daytona

Tsukuba Circuit

Circuit de la Sarthe 2009Time / Weather
Circuit de la Sarthe 2009 No Chicane
Circuit de la Sarthe 2005
Circuit de la Sarthe 2005 No Chicane

Nürburgring
Nürburgring NordschleifeTime
Nürburgring GP/F
Nürburgring 24hTime / Weather
Nürburgring GP/D
Nürburgring typeV

Indianapolis Motorspeedway
Superspeedway - Indy
Road Course - Indy

Autodromo Nazionale Monza
Autodromo Nazionale MonzaWeather
Autodromo Nazionale Monza No Chicane

The Top Gear Test Track

Laguna Seca Raceway

Original

High Speed Ring
High Speed RingWeather
High Speed Ring Reverse

Cape Ring
Cape Ring
Cape Ring Inside
Cape Ring North
Cape Ring Outside
Cape Ring South

Autumn Ring
Autumn Ring
Autumn Ring / Reverse
Autumn Ring Mini
Autumn Ring Mini / Reverse

Deep Forest Raceway
Deep Forest Raceway
Deep Forest Raceway / Reverse

Grand Valley Speedway
Grand Valley Speedway
Grand Valley Speedway / Reverse
Grand Valley East Section
Grand Valley East Section / Reverse

Eiger Nordwand Track
Eiger Nordwand Track Short TrackWeather
Eiger Nordwand Track Short Track / Reverse

Trial Mountain Circuit
Trial Mountain Circuit
Trial Mountain Circuit / Reverse

City

London
London
London / Reverse

Rome
Rome
Rome / Reverse

Circuito de Madrid
Circuito de Madrid
Circuito de Madrid / Reverse
Circuito de Madrid Mini
Circuito de Madrid Mini/ Reverse

Tokyo R246
Tokyo R246
Tokyo R246 / Reverse

Côte d'Azur
Côte d'Azur

Special Stage Route 5
Special Stage Route 5 / Night
Special Stage Route 5 / Reverse / Night
Clubman Stage Route 5 / Night
Clubman Stage Route 5 / Reverse/ Night

Special Stage Route 7
Special Stage Route 7 / NightWeather

Dirt and Snow

Eiger Nordwand Track
Eiger Nordwand Track K Trail
Eiger Nordwand Track K Trail / Reverse
Eiger Nordwand Track G Trail
Eiger Nordwand Track G Trail / Reverse
Eiger Nordwand Track W Trail
Eiger Nordwand Track W Trail / Reverse

Toscana
ToscanaTime
Toscana / ReverseTime

Chamonix
Chamonix MainWeather
Chamonix EastWeather
Chamonix WestWeather
Chamonix MiniWeather

For reference:
https://www.gran-turismo.com/gb/products
Click to expand...

Oh man that list of tracks......................... for all the things I'm unhappy with in GTS I'd forgive EVERYTHING if it had that track list right there my goodness.
 
gambino
It's not the difference between the tracks that bothers me, it s the fact that Kaz said that it's a real existing circuit but it's not true.:banghead:
Click to expand...
He didn't say it's a real existing circuit. He said the location is real. In fact, if you read the full quote he says "there is a spot of land where it looks like a circuit would fit".

The location is Baska Voda, in case you're interested.
 
It was interesting how they made Eiger Nordwand so plausible, because in reality there was only a small section where a trail didn't exist that they had to embellish.
 
Famine
He didn't say it's a real existing circuit. He said the location is real. In fact, if you read the full quote he says "there is a spot of land where it looks like a circuit would fit".

The location is Baska Voda, in case you're interested.
Click to expand...

Well, I am glad I read wrong, all the better.It would be a fantastic place for a real circuit because it's one of the most beautiful places in Croatia with Mount St.George (1762 mt. elevation) towering on the north and the Adriatic Sea on the south of that spot....happy new year Famine :cheers:
 

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