Wikileaks

[FoolKiller]

^ Your problem is that you are assuming the government will use logic in this system of classification. We are talking about the same people that don't understand why someone may be uncomfortable with pat downs, and think that checking granny in such a way makes sense. Also the same people that said they don't need a warrant to tap your phone if you ever got a call from a questionable number in the Middle east.

These are also the same people that created classified memos and put them where someone else could get to them.

 

[WVUscion]

^ Your problem is that you are assuming the government will use logic in this system of classification. We are talking about the same people that don't understand why someone may be uncomfortable with pat downs, and think that checking granny in such a way makes sense. Also the same people that said they don't need a warrant to tap your phone if you ever got a call from a questionable number in the Middle east.

These are also the same people that created classified memos and put them where someone else could get to them.

lol very good call ^.^

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think the information that has been shared has been important enough.

So important that it's worth risking lives over?

Take, for example, a memo stating that China is losing patience with North Korea which was a part of their latest leak. The memo stated that China no longer considers North Korea to have any value as an ally, and would support moves towards reunification. Now that this memo is out in the public arena, Wikileaks has pretty much shown Pyongyang China's hand. Kim Jong-Il and his clique will now see any move from Beijing coming from a mile away, and they'll be able to formulate a strategy to counter it. China's position is weakened because they can no longer put as much pressure on the North as they would have when the memo remained secret. Wikileaks has not destroyed any chance at reunifying the Korean Peninsula, but it has done a hell of a lot of damage.

So tell me, do you still think the information they shared is important? The entire purpose of Wikileaks is not to "share the truth", but to undermine governments.

 

[Famine]

As always, I prefer the Daily Mash's take on all of this (language warning - non Brits may substitute "Sir Malcolm Rifkind" for Lawrence Eagleburger).

 

[A2K78]

What do think Wikileaks? Well economic commentator Gary North rightly predicted that establishments like wikipedia and google would play a role in the toppling of global regimes and guess what? outfits like wikileaks are doing just that and its for that I commend the work Julian Assange have been doing

Overall I like what Justin Raimondo wrote in his piece on why wikileaks is essnetial:

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/07/30/why-we-need-wikileaks

In the end the very fact that wikileaks have all of these governments on the run is amazing given the fact thier lies and dirty secrets are coming out.

 

[Ibonibo]

I just read an article that wikileaks has been attacked by "the jester" with DoS attacks.
It's now migrated to amazon.fr servers.
LOL

http://business.chip.de/news/Wikileaks-Amazon-ist-neuer-Hosting-Provider_45950421.html

 

[Mike Rotch]

What WikiLeaks is doing, at least in my mind, is a pretty important service.

There is a story doing the rounds in the papers here that he is going to 'blow the lid off a major US bank' soon in terms of their lack of ethics or some such poor business behaviour.

Whilst i am generally onside within the release of documents pulling the curtain aside on the WiA and such matters, lets for a moment consider that given that fragile state of the worlds economy, if he does blow the doors off a large US bank, causes a run on that industry again and trips GFC v2, how many fans will he still have?

 

[Berkyt]

I think, if docs for internal use "funneling", then mistake services and journalists in something you can not blame. But, docs life threatening do not publication, and secred (Country) documents too. This is a betrayal of people.
ps// if this text has mistake - comment pls, my Engleash bad >_>

 

[Joey D]

Unless they release the documents about what happened in Roswell, how the government is covering up aliens, who really shot JFK, details on how the moon landing was faked and anything remotely interesting about crazy Cold War experiments (Philadelphia Project for one) I'm not all that interested in WikiLeaks.

Oh and I do find it funny that a Lady Gaga CD is behind having the world powers get caught with their trousers around their legs.

 

[Keef]

There is a story doing the rounds in the papers here that he is going to 'blow the lid off a major US bank' soon in terms of their lack of ethics or some such poor business behaviour.

Whilst i am generally onside within the release of documents pulling the curtain aside on the WiA and such matters, lets for a moment consider that given that fragile state of the worlds economy, if he does blow the doors off a large US bank, causes a run on that industry again and trips GFC v2, how many fans will he still have?

Version 2? Have you forgotten about the Great Depression? This is version 2.

The more Wikileaks embarrasses governments around the world by exposing their shenanigans, the closer we are to getting those governments to stop the shenanigans, and the closer we are to no having these man-made financial catastrophes.

 

[Niels]

Look, there's stuff going to be released wich the United States find relevant to keep track of and to save under the title classified.

It's about the stuff that they do that is always going to be the real eye candy.
Let's see what the United States hides from us.

If so, and if these documents get leaked and facts get unvealed about torturement and very serious other criminal acts then that's good.
They can argue "we think that is necesarry to protect our nations general safety".
Well, if that's the case then find another way. If you don't know how to do it by your own rules.

This is just a display of wanting to controll.
And that's just dumb.

That's out of being scared things don't go well if you don't controll them.

 

[YSSMAN]

So important that it's worth risking lives over?

[Chinese, DPRK relations]

So tell me, do you still think the information they shared is important? The entire purpose of Wikileaks is not to "share the truth", but to undermine governments.

The overwhelming majority of these cables were accessible to low-level intelligence officers, and absolutely none of it contained information that would put anyone's life at risk. The fact that we managed to put some kind of classified status on personal assessments of global leaders goes to show how backwards our intelligence community has become. Lives are not at risk because of these leaks, it is taking things to a pretty great extreme to say that they are.

WikiLeaks is doing what our emasculated Media is entirely incapable of doing. Instead of doing their damn jobs, turning over rocks and looking for the things that we clearly shouldn't be doing - but are - We are left to internet pirates and vigilantes to uncover the embarrassing activities that our government is taking part in. It isn't to undermine the United States and it's allies, it's to put a check on our leadership by saying "You're not going to get away with it, we will find out about it, and we will tell people, and people will be pissed." The simple fact that they are so fearful of those who are exposing these secrets has to say something.

If we're going to start taking leaks seriously, we should probably take a look at the folks who exposed Valerie Plame as a CIA operative. Just sayin'.

 

[Danoff]

The President being poisoned wasn't the corn flakes' fault, it was the security around the preparation of the food. Therefore your first example doesn't apply because the breakfast option itself wouldn't become classified. They would simply make the location of the white house corn flakes boxes, along with the suppliers of the white house corn flakes classified. Oh wait, it already is . We would still know our Presidents breakfast choices, while safeguarding against his assasination.

Walmart's earnings have no direct effect on stock brokers. While they do make their living around the buying and selling of stock (potentially walmart's) you would be hard pressed to find a broker who put every single penny of his companies assets into walmart stock. Even if our unfortunately dense stock broker did make such an ill informed decision and ended his life we would have to analyze the exact reasons why he did such a thing. Many stock brokers deal with other peoples money, and not their own. Therefore if he caused the entire investment firm to go bankrupt because of his decision his worst punishment would be needing to find a job as an insurance salesman or a security guard for president obama's corn flakes. If he decides that other professions aren't for him and he was ment to be a stock broker, and subsequently ended his life, then his death would be the result of his poor decision making and not the earnings of walmart.

The histories of US Senators example would not apply for similar reasons to the Obama example. I know the name of my senator (Joe Manchin), and with little searching could find out everything there is to know about him. Where he grew up, where he went to school, his previous jobs before becoming a politician, and since he was previously the governor of West Virginia I would even have his address . However these details mean nothing. His life isn't in danger nor is his family's. He has security details that protect him and keep him safe. If someone were to assasinate him it would not be the fault of knowing his name or his hometown, but would belong to those who were charged with protecting him.

How does this apply? It means that everything would not be classified. Only the things that are necessary in order to protect the lives of people in the public eye. Sure enough, thats how it is now. Or was anyway, before Wikileaks decided that we should all know everything.

You missed the point. The point is that essentially all information can be construed as putting someone at risk given a dense enough government. The location of a manhole cover can put people at risk if someone decides to put a bomb on that manhole cover. If the threshold for classifying information is that it could be used to harm someone, then all information must be classified. I'm sure the fact that I used to watch Voltron could be used in some way to increase risk to my health.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The overwhelming majority of these cables were accessible to low-level intelligence officers, and absolutely none of it contained information that would put anyone's life at risk. The fact that we managed to put some kind of classified status on personal assessments of global leaders goes to show how backwards our intelligence community has become. Lives are not at risk because of these leaks, it is taking things to a pretty great extreme to say that they are.

So it should be okay because they're all low-grade reports? There are seventy thousand documents released in one go, but all it will take is one high-level file that somehow gets into the mix that jeopardises the entire thing. That one document, mixed in with tens of thousands of innocuous reports, could have serious consequences.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

Very interesting thread, was thinking about this as well.

On this forum where a lot of the US citizens are very much protecting "Freedom of speech" I seem to hear a more cautious approach here.

So it should be okay because they're all low-grade reports?

e.g.:
telex = a systems from before the fax sometimes still used in relationships with Africa, used since it is robust.
telex operators = low-grade, allowed to see any message going through

So low grade does not always = low risk. Not that interludes stated something else.

=============================================

On the revelations last week:
1) e.g.: That there are US atomic weapons in Belgium, strange we had politicians that once went to protest on that site against atomic weapons. So no real revelation, just a confirmation.
2) That people see some weaknesses in Sarkozy, Berlusconi, .... A bit sad that these kind of official papers will not help our path towards a diplomacy on world problems.


==============================================

In conclusion:
* We generally aim for transparency, there wikileaks is good. They do not invent things and should restrain from interpreting. Publishing = transparency.
* We are still humans and not all we do or think is correct. There wikileaks is weak, it shows everything to everyone and might draw the attention from the essential to the spectacular.

So there are some responsibilities:
1) The persons writing should be careful and protect "secrets" better. If wikileaks can see it, other certainly did too.
2) The persons reading should be careful and focus on the essential.
3) Wikileaks should not spy, break in, etc... but might have a correct function in showing where the protection of data is weak and exposed.

 

[Dotini]

Weeks prior to any of these document dumps, wikilieaks released the data in advance to the Administration so that it could be reviewed, vetted and redacted in the case of valid security issues. Rather than play ball, the government chose to ignore the opportunity and let the chips fall as they may.

As YSSMAN more or less noted, it is the proper function of the press to afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted. It is a gross fail and a great shame. Assange is now in a league with Daniel Ellsberg and Seymour Hersch.

 

[Omnis]

Here's an interesting segment on Freedom Watch about it:

 

[Dotini]

Here's an interesting segment on Freedom Watch about it:

Great report that covered a lot of ground. Our government's inability to defend against cyberattack from internal hackers or Chinese is truly alarming. Assange is like a loose cannon rolling around on a tossing deck of gunpowder and burning fuses. There are some extremely angry and powerful men all over the world who would love nothing better than seeing him either dead or slammed into solitary confinement.

 

[LizMcQueen]

There are some extremely angry and powerful men all over the world who would love nothing better than seeing him either dead or slammed into solitary confinement.

Tom Flanagan said it clearly.

There are much people/governments very angry with Julian Assange, but he's just showing things that many people suspected, all governments have something to hide and someone has to show the truth.

After this latest news in Spain we know that three ministers were lying and obstructing justice.

I hope Assange continue with this difficult and dangerous work and be cautious of "accidents".

 

[orimarc]

After this latest news in Spain we know that three ministers were lying and obstructing justice.

All I can say is that:

1) I'm a Spaniard
2) That sucks a large amount of ass.

For non-existant-god's sake, a camera died and they tried to stop the juridical process!

 

[Touring Mars]

Wikileaks continue to reveal shocking new information that the world simply didn't know already. Berlusconi is crooked? Whodathunkit?

 

[C6R GT2]

I would love to hear the "Wikileaks is a terrorist organization" argument from someone in the U.S. Government. This I say after reviewing the definition of Terrorist Organization, Terrorism and Terrorist Activity as defined in the Immigration and Naturalization Act.

 

[blaaah]

It's going to be difficult for me to do as i am a good customer but i will be trying to phase out and close down my Amazon and Paypal and Ebay accounts, and then avoid all American owned or controlled businesses. The latest developments from America have even made me want to donate money to Wikileaks via the options they have left open to them.
I agree with the article i have just read in the Independent newspaper, the USA may not have been that damaged by the classified information that has been leaked out, but they have been ruined by their bullying and controlling reaction to it.

 

[blaaah]

Great report that covered a lot of ground. Our government's inability to defend against cyberattack from internal hackers or Chinese is truly alarming. Assange is like a loose cannon rolling around on a tossing deck of gunpowder and burning fuses. There are some extremely angry and powerful men all over the world who would love nothing better than seeing him either dead or slammed into solitary confinement.

It is almost amusing if it wasn't scary this anger over Assanage. It's almost as if people think he is responsible in some way, he is just a person. If he goes the leaks still carry on no matter what. It's is misplaced anger too as he/wikileaks has done nothing illegal, it is lawful to publish leaked information even if it is classified or whatever.

 

[Dotini]

Ron Paul, the libertarian beloved to many GTP fans, has come out in favor of WikiLeaks.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/ron-paul-what-wikileaks/
“In a free society we're supposed to know the truth,” Paul insisted. “In a society where truth becomes treason, then we're in big trouble. And now, people who are revealing the truth are getting into trouble for it."

He is right. The hypocrisy, corruption and denial in our civilization has built up to almost ridiculous levels. It is both funny and sad. We could almost as easily be having this conversation in the "Human Thirst for Knowledge - Blessing or Curse?" thread. It is as if our technologies are leading us by the nose into uncharted territory and unanticipated consequences. At some point we will have to decide between positive human values or a continued descent into conflict and exploitation.

 

[Joey D]

You know what has amazed me? We've almost tracked down and probably will catch Julian Assange, but yet Osama bin Ladin still remains uncaptured. I feel like we got our priorities mixed up, one man orchestrated several attacks that have killed numerous people, the other published information that was stolen via a Lady GaGa CD.

 

[Anes]

Is there a list somewhere that lists the most damaging reports? I only watch about an hour of TV a week but this saga interests me a lot yet I know almost nothing about it.

 

[Omnis]

You know what has amazed me? We've almost tracked down and probably will catch Julian Assange, but yet Osama bin Ladin still remains uncaptured. I feel like we got our priorities mixed up, one man orchestrated several attacks that have killed numerous people, the other published information that was stolen via a Lady GaGa CD.

Good point. Makes you wonder if they would've demonized any other media outlet, especially if it was an MSM source that published the leaks.

 

[blaaah]

Is there a list somewhere that lists the most damaging reports? I only watch about an hour of TV a week but this saga interests me a lot yet I know almost nothing about it.

Try here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/wikileaks
As i have said the most damaging reports are the news reports of what America is doing to control and influence all infrastructure that freely publishes legal news.

 

[GT5_komp]

I have not made a lot of posts yet and I hope this early post is not going to cause me any grief.

I have massive concerns over the publicity of wikileaks across the MSM and more, it is really getting into the publics eye. This leads me to believe something more sinister is involved. Why are the MSM not exposing the agenda constantly?

I know he will not talk about 9/11 even though more conspiracy readers think it is the #1 inside job. Does that mean he cannot expose it as being the false flag as his boss will not allow it? Or was it actually an attack.

Did he work for the Economist and the NY Times once? From that to this?

I cannot confirm this but I am sure I read he had done a deal with the CIA regarding hacking, maybe this is part of the deal.

Get the public to know this and how bad it is for the security of the world blah blah and use it as a way to shut down the internet as we know it to then revive it under a locked down fence for us all!

I just dont buy into this, now the "he is a sex pest" routine.... soon it will be the "heart attack" nothing changes. JFK was taken down not long after his not so well known speech about secret societies etc etc (on youtube). So basically if someone wanted to catch assange or catch bin laden they could. Dont forget CNN found Bin Laden and interviewed him when the "CIA" could not find him with all those billions of $$$.

Like I say I dont buy into this wikileaks thing right now, it is all too obvious and a hidden agenda awaits I am sure.

If he really has something that will save lives then he should be letting the world know, not releasing info that could start world wars, maybe thats what the agenda is overall. Overpopluated and need to change it. RE : Georgia Guide Stones!

PS: I am not a conspiracy nut.. I am a gamer.