Will elevation and ambient temp affect cars in GT6

[Brainhulk]

I think it would add to the realism if these factors were incorporated. Then one would have to monitor oil temps, egt's, maybe afr for boosted cars so you don't overheat. Tires will take longer to get up to temp. Cars will lose power as they go up a mountain...

 

[ShiftingGears]

I think it would add to the realism if these factors were incorporated. Then one would have to monitor oil temps, egt's, maybe afr for boosted cars. Cars will lose power as they go up a mountain...

You would've known about it already if it did.

 

[Gejabo]

It would be great if it did, but don't count on it.

 

[Spagetti69]

Not a chance IMHO.

 

[Inferno251]

I could imagine this being something they would experiment with in GT7

I recall a quote from Kaz about ambient temperature effects, but only visually:

“I don’t know if anybody remembers, but when the PS2 first came out, the first thing I did on that was a demo for the announcement. I showed a demo of GT3 that showed the Seattle course at sunset with the heat rising off the ground and shimmering. You can’t re-create that heat haze effect on the PS3 because the read-modify-write just isn’t as fast as when we were using the PS2. There are things like that. Another reason is because of the transition to full HD.”

Of course, that was back with GT3 on the PS2. If the hardware on the PS4 is less complex than the PS3, then we might experience more realistic features.

 

[sparkytooth]

The current course temperature appears alongside the course time and the weather in GT6.

It might factor in, who knows? They added that in for some reason.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The current course temperature appears alongside the course time and the weather in GT6.

It might factor in, who knows? They added that in for some reason.

I noticed the same thing. Could be there for a reason, or just to make the screen look cooler. Like almost everything else in GT6, have to wait and see.

 

[Griffith500]

I think track surface temperature is variable to some extent in some modes of play in GT5 already. This applies to time change tracks - there is noticeably less grip at night; with fast time transitions, the grip can drop off suddenly.

As for the air density affecting engine performance, that's a bit tricky, as it doesn't scale linearly with real engines, and varies according to the state of tune - you'd need some kind of engine simulation with lots of data for that.
Aero, not so much (I think), so we could have potentially have less downforce at altitude.

 

[acidreach]

"Simulating Wet Conditions with Weather Changes
Some of the tracks will dynamically simulate the status of the weather based on factors like temperature, pressure and humidity, all in real time"

source: http://eu.gran-turismo.com/gb/products/gt5/vfx/

This is said of GT5. But notice it is in the "Visual Effects" category.

It would be great if this was extended to effect the engine etc in GT6.

 

[Crispy]

I could imagine this being something they would experiment with in GT7 I recall a quote from Kaz about ambient temperature effects, but only visually: Of course, that was back with GT3 on the PS2. If the hardware on the PS4 is less complex than the PS3, then we might experience more realistic features.

That's visual, not in the physics engine.

 

[Inferno251]

That's visual, not in the physics engine.

Um...

I recall a quote from Kaz about ambient temperature effects, but only visually:

 

[Badasp5.0]

Cars will lose power as they go up a mountain...

Oh please god no I deal with it enough in real life

 

[Crispy]

Um...

That's what I get for posting early in the morning...

 

[IceMan PJN]

I think track surface temperature is variable to some extent in some modes of play in GT5 already. This applies to time change tracks - there is noticeably less grip at night; with fast time transitions, the grip can drop off suddenly.

As for the air density affecting engine performance, that's a bit tricky, as it doesn't scale linearly with real engines, and varies according to the state of tune - you'd need some kind of engine simulation with lots of data for that.
Aero, not so much (I think), so we could have potentially have less downforce at altitude.

Air density doesn't just change with altitude but also with temperature. Aerodynamic drag and downforce increase as temperature decreases.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I think track surface temperature is variable to some extent in some modes of play in GT5 already. This applies to time change tracks - there is noticeably less grip at night; with fast time transitions, the grip can drop off suddenly.

As for the air density affecting engine performance, that's a bit tricky, as it doesn't scale linearly with real engines, and varies according to the state of tune - you'd need some kind of engine simulation with lots of data for that.
Aero, not so much (I think), so we could have potentially have less downforce at altitude.

I don't think it needs to be that complicated. Most things in GT work on a multiplier, hp and grip certainly do, and downforce is a linear scale. All you would need is a basic algorithm and when certain thresholds are met it triggers a change in the multiplier for grip, HP and aero. If as you say it's already happening with day/night transition, it should be simple enough to simulate aero and HP as well.

 

[Griffith500]

Air density doesn't just change with altitude but also with temperature. Aerodynamic drag and downforce increase as temperature decreases.

Drag and downforce (of some object in different fluids) are determined by density and velocity, primarily, which is indeed affected by both temperature and pressure. However, air density decreases continually with altitude, because all of the atmosphere is "connected" and there is less of it above progressively higher points, resulting in a lower pressure (fluid continuity, ignoring the small-scale fluctuations we like to call "weather").

The pressure is more or less fixed from the altitude, and the temperature variations offer only relatively small changes (a few degrees K vs. several tens of Pa) - therefore, the pressure drop dominates and the density decreases.

I don't think it needs to be that complicated. Most things in GT work on a multiplier, hp and grip certainly do, and downforce is a linear scale. All you would need is a basic algorithm and when certain thresholds are met it triggers a change in the multiplier for grip, HP and aero. If as you say it's already happening with day/night transition, it should be simple enough to simulate aero and HP as well.

Oh no, no, no, no... do not threshold it. Yikes, if you're going to hack it, at least use continuous functions!

I was talking more for the engine performance, anyway, which you can't apply a blanket hp reduction for all engines, because that's not what happens - besides, what would be the point if it affected every car equally?
I guess if you know a car really well, that reduction in top speed might open up some gear ratio tweaks or aero balance etc., but I'm never really interested in that micro stuff anyway.

It's also fixed, more or less, for the entire race; track temperature etc. is not, which is why it's more interesting, I think.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Oh no, no, no, no... do not threshold it. Yikes, if you're going to hack it, at least use continuous functions!

I was talking more for the engine performance, anyway, which you can't apply a blanket hp reduction for all engines, because that's not what happens - besides, what would be the point if it affected every car equally?
I guess if you know a car really well, that reduction in top speed might open up some gear ratio tweaks or aero balance etc., but I'm never really interested in that micro stuff anyway.

It's also fixed, more or less, for the entire race; track temperature etc. is not, which is why it's more interesting, I think.

However it's done it should be relatively easy to do and you're already of the opinion that it's already being done. When I saw the temperatures in the previews I assumed this was something they were working on and it wasn't just cosmetic. Stupid me eh. If I were PD I'd just start off with a blanket equation and work from there, maybe updating by grouping engines into categories (4, 6, 8, 10, 12 cylinder street, 4,6,8 race car for eg.) I'd be fine with that and I think most people would, for now. All cars affected equally puts everyone on the same footing but at the same time, each of us has to adapt individually to more or less grip, hp and aero as the race progresses, time of day changes etc.

 

[Griffith500]

However it's done it should be relatively easy to do and you're already of the opinion that it's already being done. When I saw the temperatures in the previews I assumed this was something they were working on and it wasn't just cosmetic. Stupid me eh. If I were PD I'd just start off with a blanket equation and work from there, maybe updating by grouping engines into categories (4, 6, 8, 10, 12 cylinder street, 4,6,8 race car for eg.) I'd be fine with that and I think most people would, for now. All cars affected equally puts everyone on the same footing but at the same time, each of us has to adapt individually to more or less grip, hp and aero as the race progresses, time of day changes etc.

As I said, I wasn't talking about the track temperature so much as the engines. The track temperature should just feed into the tyre model, assuming it's being done "right"...

Grouping engines according to cylinder numbers isn't that useful (although it would have a very minor effect), but I get the idea. It's more about things like cam timing and compression ratio etc., which are both continuous scales themselves and only abstractly represented in the game, if at all. I think the fundamental problem is actually fueling (affected by everything), which I will admit to not knowing enough about to comment, but that's not represented, either. Swapping jets and things out in carbs etc. to suit higher altitudes may be "fun", though.

The only reliable way to get a realistic model is to test every engine, because I doubt even modeling will work very well (reliably, consistently) on that type of thing, but I could be wrong.
At that point, anything less is just being done for its own sake, despite it being entirely arbitrary and devoid of meaningful impact (on the "mechanics", not necessarily the "experience", I'll admit). It's also a bugger to balance, because surely turbo cars shouldn't be affected the same way...?
Do it for the right reasons, and do it right.


Tracks are already unique and the weather as-is should offer enough variety. This extra subtlety, which I'm fully in favour of if done properly, probably wouldn't be missed and may only be frustrating to many, since the goal posts would be constantly moving (tuning). I don't think people are quite ready for a GT Roguelike (slight exaggeration), although it's exactly what I want.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Tracks are already unique and the weather as-is should offer enough variety. This extra subtlety, which I'm fully in favour of if done properly, probably wouldn't be missed and may only be frustrating to many, since the goal posts would be constantly moving (tuning). I don't think people are quite ready for a GT Roguelike (slight exaggeration), although it's exactly what I want.

Easy problem to solve, just provide a toggle switch to turn it on and off. It's essentially what most people do now anyway online on RS tires, they turn off all subtlety and overgrip everything to make it easy, this would just be something else along those lines.

 

[Griffith500]

Easy problem to solve, just provide a toggle switch to turn it on and off. It's essentially what most people do now anyway online on RS tires, they turn off all subtlety and overgrip everything to make it easy, this would just be something else along those lines.

That's true, but you first have to put the subtlety there to turn off. Blanket anything isn't exactly subtle. If they can do it properly, I'll take it gladly, obviously.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Delete..

 

[Inferno251]

That's what I get for posting early in the morning...

That's fine, I can't get out of bed in the morning sometimes either