Will Standard Cars be in GT7?Addressed

[Johnnypenso]

As for @TayeezSA, I understand your sentiments, as with everyone who has a dislike for the Standards. But to say that GT3 A-Spec was a great game, it wasn't because of the small car and track list, it was in spite of it. I know that Forza 5 has its fans, but the gamers are voting with their wallets, and many of them are sticking with Forza 4, a game which is two to four times as large, depending on how you look at it. And I know that GT7 would be larger than Forza 5 in Premium car count, but tracks? This is where most people here backtrack a little and say that maybe those Standard tracks like Deep Forest and Trial Mountain aren't so bad, because having a handful of courses to race gets older much quicker than with cars.

You continue to mention Forza 5 in a negative sales light and I have addressed this many times. You really do love to ignore responses that don't fit with your narrow view of the sim racing world don't you? Forza5 is the 3rd largest selling game on the XBone console last time I checked a few days ago, ahead of several AAA gaming titles. Please explain how that means people are voting with their wallets and at the same time that is something negative because to anyone with an open mind it is a resounding success.

 

[Tenacious D]

Well Johnny, it is also true that a number of fans have mentioned on forums that they would love to have a Forza that's about as big as Forza 4, but since that's not F5, they're going to wait for 6, unless T10 throws out a bunch of DLC. Affordably. I'm one of them. Possibly, it depends on what GT7 and P CARS are like, because Forza 4 is still plenty of Forza for me. I also recall that in the early days of F5, T10 mentioned they couldn't use their existing Fanatec wheels, and that turned people off too. Not sure what the situation is now, but I don't recall hearing anything different. I am taking people at their word that they would happily buy an Xbone if Forza 5 hadn't been amputated so much, but you kind of have to do that.

I think rather than insisting on hypotheticals, such as most gamers would be happy with a GT7 that was as small as GT3, understand that GT3 was a one time game in the Gran Turismo legacy, wonderful selling, but likely never to be repeated. And that asking for such a gutting of a future Gran Turismo game has already caused a certain amount of backlash here. Plus, Kaz really does love just about everything automotive and wants to immortalize the whole shebang in Gran Turismo, so he will likely never do it. You might love a small Gran Turismo, but there's DriveClub and P CARS to suit that taste bud.

You guys who insist on only wanting to fondle Premium stuff, GT7 is going to suit us both. You can stock your garage with high poly glory, and I'm sure there will be plenty of exclusivists who insist on staging Premium ONLY rooms, so you shouldn't have to suffer seeing a Standard car online. Offline, you might have a problem, but I'm sure someone here will offer consolation when you do.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

And if they don't even BUY an XBone......

 

[Johnnypenso]

Well Johnny, it is also true that a number of fans have mentioned on forums that they would love to have a Forza that's about as big as Forza 4, but since that's not F5, they're going to wait for 6, unless T10 throws out a bunch of DLC. Affordably. I'm one of them. Possibly, it depends on what GT7 and P CARS are like, because Forza 4 is still plenty of Forza for me. I also recall that in the early days of F5, T10 mentioned they couldn't use their existing Fanatec wheels, and that turned people off too. Not sure what the situation is now, but I don't recall hearing anything different. I am taking people at their word that they would happily buy an Xbone if Forza 5 hadn't been amputated so much, but you kind of have to do that.

So in your little world, the word of a handful of people on a fansite determines how well a game is selling? You have no other resources other than that? Do you apply the same logic to the GT series because this fansite is chock full of people unhappy with the game? Continuing to insist that Forza isn't selling because a handful of people said early on they wouldn't buy it when the best information we have tells us it's the third best selling game on the console, is being deliberately obtuse at best or perhaps purposefully ignorant might describe it better.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

Or just simply doesn't have time or caring to look, like me.

 

[TayeezSA]

As for @TayeezSA, I understand your sentiments, as with everyone who has a dislike for the Standards. But to say that GT3 A-Spec was a great game, it wasn't because of the small car and track list, it was in spite of it. I know that Forza 5 has its fans, but the gamers are voting with their wallets, and many of them are sticking with Forza 4, a game which is two to four times as large, depending on how you look at it. And I know that GT7 would be larger than Forza 5 in Premium car count, but tracks? This is where most people here backtrack a little and say that maybe those Standard tracks like Deep Forest and Trial Mountain aren't so bad, because having a handful of courses to race gets older much quicker than with cars.

Yes, it wasn't because of that. Another thing, GT3 had a small tracklist in the series but as an average racing game it had a nice amount of tracks even when you exclude the reversed tracks. Like I said before, the locations had variety instead of there being a Short Course, long course etc. There were different tracks.

GT7 obviously will have more tracks, the type of tracks however I'm unsure of. The public from this forum predominately want tracks from the older titles all refreshed and nice like Apricot Hill. However this whole "Standard Track " jazz is funny.

So I did some looking around in GT. I went to Trial Mountain Circuit and Deep Forest Raceway along with London and Cote D Azur. The only bad things about those Trial and Deep Forest were just the tree models for me and that's about it. With the others, when you look up close, you can see the building's texture isn't all that great plus some adverts are dated. The other stuff looked to be in shape. So I think the standard track issue is an argument, but it's is a weak one.

 

[Tenacious D]

So in your little world, the word of a handful of people on a fansite determines how well a game is selling? You have no other resources other than that? Do you apply the same logic to the GT series because this fansite is chock full of people unhappy with the game? Continuing to insist that Forza isn't selling because a handful of people said early on they wouldn't buy it when the best information we have tells us it's the third best selling game on the console, is being deliberately obtuse at best or perhaps purposefully ignorant might describe it better.

Well, consider me ignorant if you will, but the reason I discount the complainers on any forum as having any bearing on how well Gran Turismo does is... well, basically, GT5 and its nearly 11 million sales are standing on your feet.

Gt5 is the game that turned a lot of people here off, and the incessant complaining about it turned off a number of fans. All the claims that GT5's 7 million sales were a flash in the pan due to blind buying proved untrue. In the eight months since November 2012, GT5 sold another million copies, propelling it well over the typical 10 million mark. All the people here who were down on the game were very adamant that GT5 was a bad game, and there were quite a few. And the gaming world didn't give two cookies what they thought.

Now Forza is in an awkward position on a next gen console, and it's not like PS4 and its racers aren't in a similar fix. You have to buy the console. You most likely will have to buy a whole new wheel controller for it, a rather pricey one if you want a good racing feel, and then the game unless a bundle is available. Now, people will do that. I was insane enough to spring for a $500 360 Leet, the preposterously priced (but what choice did we have at the time?) official 360 Wheel at $200, and the VIP edition Forza 2 at around $800-plus total including tax. There is a certain "attach rate" bump of system sales with high profile games, usually by the more serious fans, but more so with flagship titles.

Now the problem Forza 5 faces isn't just all that, or the sour taste in many fan's mouths with M$'s money hatting in the game. Or even that The ONE is just not liked generally by gamers, as Forza fans have indicated on boards that they intend to get one with Forza 6, assuming it's a much bigger game. It's apparently that Forza 4 is still so darn good even as a last gen game that it's holding its own in the face of what is technically a quantum leap in all levels. Except that F4 has just about double the car and location count of F5. Add in variations, and it's about triple.

Do gamer's remarks here about skipping GT6 for 7, assuming "it's a real Gran Turismo this time," have any bearing?

We've both been coming up with theories as to why GT6 or Forza 5 aren't doing too hot. In fact, both selling at about a third their usual totals... so far. With both GT6 and Forza 5 being discounted and being bundled for free with their systems, their sales will edge up over time. But the 10 million GT fans and 4 million Forza addicts aren't rushing out en mass to get either game right now. You might insist that it's purely based on the fact that the Xbone is a new system, and dismiss any criticisms of Forza 5 being a small game, or having ruthless bots, or offering gamers the chance to spend their way through the game with real money. You could say that I'm ignoring how much gamers hate Standard cars and poor sounds in GT6. Except that you have to make the case as to why it evidently wasn't much of a bother to gamers in GT5, but all of a sudden, it is in GT6.

this whole "Standard Track " jazz is funny.

So I did some looking around in GT. I went to Trial Mountain Circuit and Deep Forest Raceway along with London and Cote D Azur. The only bad things about those Trial and Deep Forest were just the tree models for me and that's about it. With the others, when you look up close, you can see the building's texture isn't all that great plus some adverts are dated. The other stuff looked to be in shape. So I think the standard track issue is an argument, but it's is a weak one.

I tried briefly to find the thread in which some people posted shots of the Standard tracks from Photo Mode, and I have to admit that they did show that Trial Mountain and Deep Forest looked surprisingly bad compared to Rome and London. Of course I want the tracks and when I'm tearing around them I find them plenty good looking.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

The other question about the xbone is something I heard at a professional gaming business. The owner said that several of the power supplies had self ignited. As in almost burned down the house..... That's going to be a bit hard to convince people is safe.....

Plus, we have to factor in (on ALL sales everywhere, of everything) the fact that people are spending more just to stay alive than to blow on entertainment (in our case video games).

 

[Tornado]

It's really not difficult to see how terrible Monaco looks even when simply racing on it, what with an entire (slow) third of the lap taking place in a harbour with water textures that look like an old Wal-Mart bag and boats straight out of GTA III, so I'm quite curious what claims to the contrary are really supposed to mean.

 

[Aussie_HSV]

It's really not difficult to see how terrible Monaco looks even when simply racing on it, what with an entire (slow) third of the lap taking place in a harbour with water textures that look like an old Wal-Mart bag and boats straight out of GTA III, so I'm quite curious what claims to the contrary are really supposed to mean.

Apart from yourself, how many of the millions of GT6 players do you actually think care about the water texture in the harbour as they drive around Monaco?
You know, just a rough estimate will do.
Are we talking 90%, 50%, 10%, 0.01%, or 0.00001%?

 

[Tornado]

How many of the millions of GT6 players do you actually think care about the accurate placement of stars in the sky as they drive around night tracks?
You know, just a rough estimate will do.
Are we talking 90%, 50%, 10%, 0.01%, or 0.00001%?



How many of the millions of GT6 players do you actually think care about the representation of the graffiti as they drive around the Nurburgring?
You know, just a rough estimate will do.
Are we talking 90%, 50%, 10%, 0.01%, or 0.00001%?



How many of the millions of GT6 players do you actually think care about the geographical surface of the Apollo 15 mission trail as they drive around the Moon?
You know, just a rough estimate will do.
Are we talking 90%, 50%, 10%, 0.01%, or 0.00001%?










In fact, you just moved the goal posts so far from what TayeezSA said, I wonder if you can see them on the Moon in GT6.

 

[Aussie_HSV]

Fairly simple, straight forward question I would have thought.

Simply asking your opinion on the matter.
Condescending replies aren't necessary.

 

[Tornado]

Fairly simple, straight forward question I would have thought.

Yes. Being curious how one can claim that the obvious texture issues on a track where a third of racing surface is followed by water not too terribly far removed from those of the Driver 2 (compared to, say, the water featured in SSRX) is pretty straightforward, though I admit that I phrased it as a sentiment rather than a question.

Simply asking your opinion on the matter.

Of course you were.

Condescending replies aren't necessary.

If your original post wasn't condescending, why is mine that asks the exact same thing in the opposite context any different?

 

[Aussie_HSV]

Obviously you're avoiding the question.

I didn't raise the water textures, or any of the other stuff you mentioned.
You raised the water textures, so I simply asked you a question regarding the significance of it.

Frankly, I didn't expect a direct answer.
And clearly you didn't let me down.

 

[Tornado]

Obviously you're avoiding the question.

Because the question is meaningless. It's impossible to quantify how many people have a problem with any specific issue in the game. It's impossible to even guess in the same ballpark. You knew this from the start (at least I hope). And, most damningly, the question as you posed it is so malleable in the context you raised it that it can be used without change to argue against the opposite sentiment.

How many people truly care about a third of one track looking exactly like the 2001 art asset with very minor changes that it is? The answer to that is probably similar to the amount of people who truly care that they can circumnavigate the globe by looking up in the sky while racing in the dark at Le Sarthe. Yet that makes the inconsistency in care on PD's part all the more apparent; and the question itself doesn't mean anything to begin with for the discussion started when someone claimed that there wasn't much in a specific track that looks poor compared to other tracks.

I didn't raise the water textures, or any of the other stuff you mentioned.
You raised the water textures, so I simply asked you a question regarding the significance of it.

Or, more accurately, you attempted to dismiss a point about a track's quality in a discussion already under way about track quality in a thread about asset quality in general, under the guise of most people not caring about it even when it is obviously deficient.

Frankly, I didn't expect a direct answer.

That was obvious from the way you phrased it, so I'd be surprised if you did expect an actual answer. See here for further reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question



If you're done trying to show how clever you can be, that would be great. 👍

 

[Aussie_HSV]

Over-opinionated people are exactly that.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

Yeah... that was WAY overblown. Honestly, this entire question-cars, tracks, sounds, etc. boils down to how much attention each person ACTUALLY wants to pay to them.

And I have yet to slow down long enough (once a race starts) to pay attention to any more than the obvious problems. (The cardboard people that I hit and stop instantly on when I miss a corner.... )

 

[Daduce1947]

There are too many good standard cars to go to waste. While I don't expect standards to be in GTPS4, I hope we're getting the so called semi-premiums, such as the Vision GTs and such. I don't mind sacrificing interior modeling for the ability to drive more cars!

Keep them all! I and I venture a great many others drive 3rd person so an interior, even tho they're cool!! is of no value to us. Standard and Premium,, we like the option of choice. Press on PD!! We're buying the GT7 and PS4 just because we've been an avid GT fan since the first game was brought to we driving sim fans and will remain a fan of PD.

[QUOTE ="TRLWNC7396, post: 9690391, member: 246657"]One phrase: DLC....

I hope that ALL the cars get put in. And, except for the ones that no longer exist (though I'm sure they can patch in SOME kind of a picture...?) I hope that they work on upgrading them all.[/QUOTE]

Ditto!! 👍👍 They're already done and we like 'em,, keep them and the gamer can choose.

 

[Harsk100]

What standard cars that you do not want to drive?

 

[TRLWNC7396]

Hmmm.... The one that isn't in the game.

But, even then, I would take anything they gave me and overcome the challenge!

 

[Tenacious D]

What standard cars that you do not want to drive?

Trucks, vans and SUVs. But I know truck racing has its fans, so I'm not asking for them to be removed. In fact, I'm not sure there are any Premium trucks in GT5 or 6, are there? I haven't been bothered about them enough to check, but I can imagine that most of them, if not all, are Standards.

Most of the race cars are Standards. Most of the street cars are Standards.

And those cars have owners. It's always great when you can drive "your car" or your parent's car in a game this detailed. And I know this subject has been beaten to a bloody pulp, but as much as we want all the cars to be Premiums, that takes a lot of time. I'd still rather have a car than not have a car.

People keep posting that poor Suzuki Works Alto as the poster car for how bad "all" the Standards look. Well, not only do most of them look much better than that, but I bought one and hopped it up, and it is a BLAST! Not only that, but in replays - you know, when the car is in motion and you can't stare at every single pixel, it looks pretty darn okay to me. Your okay may vary.

 

[Johnnypenso]

What standard cars that you do not want to drive?

Wrong question IMO. It's not about what cars I don't want to drive, it's about what I want as a gaming experience on a next generation console. I don't tend to look backwards at games, I look forward. If I plop down a minimum of $900 for a next gen system, wheel and game, I expect the entire game, from top to bottom, to be from 2014 or whatever year it's released, not rehashed from 2003.

 

[TayeezSA]

Wrong question IMO. It's not about what cars I don't want to drive, it's about what I want as a gaming experience on a next generation console. I don't tend to look backwards at games, I look forward. If I plop down a minimum of $900 for a next gen system, wheel and game, I expect the entire game, from top to bottom, to be from 2014 or whatever year it's released, not rehashed from 2003.

Exactly, I'm not paying Premium money for for sub-standard content