will you continue to play/buy/support ?

[Foxiol]

As an owner of pCARS since October 2011 (day one kind off...) I can say that I´m not even playing it at the moment (just trying builds every day for some minutes) because it has some serious problems in the simulation aspect as of now carried since the start. I´m hoping they can solve this in the RC (Release Candidate) build later this year...If that doesn´t happen I probably won´t be playing it as much as I played any Gran Turismo because that game is not a "substitute" to me in comparison. (amount of cars/tracks/features, physics aside)

Since pCARS is "focused" in the "pure simulator" range at the moment, I prefer Assetto Corsa over it (which also has serious problems in the physics department but is too early to judge) and mostly rFactor 2 as the top one.

With that said, I think that we should wait and see if PD is able to do a game that can stand out as the old ones did at their time because as of now the game is just good but with tons of flaws that should be eradicated from the series for ever. (engine sounds, repetitive car models, not making use of actual real life rules/regulations, etc...to name some)

I won´t change one game for another...I prefer to have them all and judge for myself...there is no perfect game...one always has what the other doesn´t and so on.

 

[eSZee]

Unacceptable... I don't know. That seems to be a completely individual thing. Some of us here are done with the series because of it. Some of us are ecstatic at the prospect. Would millions of fans be angry? That remains to be seen.

Individual thing? I think the only individuals who would be fine with GT6 being abandoned this very moment would be you and those like you.

So in response to Alss, no, the world in general isn't getting sick of PD and the game in general.

Based on...?

 

[HBK]

As much as it pains me to say so, as someone who was blown away by the original Gran Turismo when it came out on that shiny little grey box in 97 (well technically the box was matte but whatever), as someone who played quite extensively all the previous games in the series, I'm not sure if I'll play any of the following games anymore.

When GT5 came out, and was a mess, there was still the hope that the next one would fixes a number of issues (as per PD's MO), and that hope was rekindled by the impressive post-launch support PD provided with extensive patches (granted the game desperately NEEDED them, but still, they delivered on that end at least).

But now GT6 is there, and quite frankly is nothing but a joke. The game is a mess. As a game, it's absurd. As a sim, it's still lacking in way too much areas. Granted, they made some very nice progress in a number of areas such as UI, but there's so much not to like in this game it's insane.

Griefing AI, horrendous framerates, boring GT mode, broken sim elements, if you can name it, GT6 has it !

No, seriously, I think it's time for me to move on, and it unfortunately has nothing to do with PCARS or any other game. Right now the game is in such a mess of a state that I just don't see how PD could fix it in the next iterations. Even by porting it on PS4 (which would help fix the graphics and performance issues at least, even if on that end I'm not sure anymore, based on the choices they made on the current games and their absurd numbers race).

So long, Gran Turismo, it was a damn good ride.

 

[JLG_GT]

I would have thought this poll would be the opposite based on everything that is so "horrible" about GT6.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

GT6 will be the last GT game I buy at this rate. PD has a lot to prove on the PS4.

 

[MoLiEG]

GT6 will be the last GT game I buy at this rate. PD has a lot to prove on the PS4.

If they couldn't nail it on the PS3, I doubt they will do better on the PS4.

 

[eSZee]

I would have thought this poll would be the opposite based on everything that is so "horrible" about GT6.

This is a site for GT fanatics.

 

[JLG_GT]

This is a site for GT fanatics.

It is?

Couldnt tell...

 

[eSZee]

Couldnt tell...

That's fairly obvious.

 

[Alss]

I would have thought this poll would be the opposite based on everything that is so "horrible" about GT6.

I thought considering this Is a fan site the poll would of been even more in GT's favour , im surprised so many on GT planet have voted the way they have it certainly doesn't say much for the game.

 

[JLG_GT]

I thought considering this Is a fan site the poll would of been even more in GT's favour , im surprised so many on GT planet have voted the way they have it certainly doesn't say much for the game.

No, I know the game is terrible. I will stay out of it...useless and a waste of time debating.

In my head, Herm keeps telling me, "Don't press send!" And thats what I will do...have at me/it.


Edit:
The poll question is loaded anyway so its not surprising to me...

 

[Tenacious D]

Seriously, at what level would sales have to be for you to even be concerned there may be trouble with the franchise.

You consistently ignore some distinct factors.

• Almost no advertising outside of internet banners and magazine listings
• A Gran Turismo released AFTER the launch of Playstation's next gen successor
• A sector of the fanbase that was either so sure that the next Gran Turismo would be on PS4 that they sold their PS3s, or were so disappointed that it wasn't that they stuck with GT5

Heck, when I went to buy my copy at GameStop, the clerks weren't even aware that the game had launched. I get the impression they were thinking it was coming out in a year or so on PS4 themselves.

I know you want me to be worried, but the biggest factors in this situation is that Gran Turismo is SONY's flagship, and it's solidly logged in the consciousness of the gaming universe. Not to mention the automotive world now. It's not going away.

in response to Alss, no, the world in general isn't getting sick of PD and the game in general.

Based on...?

Participation here, net buzz elsewhere, these polls.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You consistently ignore some distinct factors.

• Almost no advertising outside of internet banners and magazine listings
• A Gran Turismo released AFTER the launch of Playstation's next gen successor
• A sector of the fanbase that was either so sure that the next Gran Turismo would be on PS4 that they sold their PS3s, or were so disappointed that it wasn't that they stuck with GT5

Heck, when I went to buy my copy at GameStop, the clerks weren't even aware that the game had launched. I get the impression they were thinking it was coming out in a year or so on PS4 themselves.

I know you want me to be worried, but the biggest factors in this situation is that Gran Turismo is SONY's flagship, and it's solidly logged in the consciousness of the gaming universe. Not to mention the automotive world now. It's not going away.

Participation here, net buzz elsewhere, these polls.

Thanks for answering my very direct question...errrr not...

 

[Tenacious D]

Yeah, what I said has nothing to do with Obama's failed presidency.

Anyhow, keep wasting time on these boards. I need to do some remotely constructive stuff and have some fun. Maybe even with that awful Gran Turismo.

 

[eSZee]

Participation here, net buzz elsewhere, these polls.

So based on the most biased data that agrees with your point of view.
"net buzz elsewhere" googling "gran turismo 6" and hitting the news tab shows 20 "news stories" about GRAN TURISMO 5 being discontinued.

Looking at the official playstation forums almost mirrors GTP in terms of disappointment and whining.

How deeply into the internets do I have to go in order to find this buzz? Do I need to join some secret google groups?

 

[ralph89]

If it's Pcar vs GT6, obviously the physics alone on Pcar beats it. Plus the fact that the engine they're using is next gen. If Pcar did good on sale, it'll probably lit up PD's butt to improve on a lot of aspect of GT, especially sound. IMO I think PD is holding back on what their capable of when it comes to realism, either it's lack of manpower (?) or Sony breathing down their neck to make it not realistic. Heck even Kunos Simulazioni with small amount of (11?) people can do so much. Everyone knows that Kaz has a ton of experience on track, and I'm sure he can apply all of those in his game. I hope he goes all out on GT7 and really make "The Real Driving Simulator". So I hope Pcar do good, especially on sale. PD needs to remember that their consumer/fan base from GT 1, 2, 3, and 4 of 10+ million are not 10-15 years old anymore. Some are already 20-50 years old already and we know what it's like to drive a car and how realistic or fake the game/sim is.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yeah, what I said has nothing to do with Obama's failed presidency.

Anyhow, keep wasting time on these boards. I need to do some remotely constructive stuff and have some fun. Maybe even with that awful Gran Turismo.

Obama? Thanks again for not answering:tup:

 

[Alss]

Shortly after GT5 hit, the net was full of fans saying don't worry GT6 will be the top dog , bearing in mind GT5 took what 5/6 years to make and yet it was still a disappointment .

Now GT6 has hit those same fans are saying the same all over again " oh just wait for GT7 " when are you people going to realise the GT series are never going to be the games you hype yourselfs up to believe.

Five plus years to make GT5 and still it was heavily flawed & riddled with problems , if PD/kaz can not get it right be now they never will and guess what GT6 comes along and the same starts all over again but now instead of saying GT6 will be great youve moved on to saying GT7 will be the one, and so it will go on until there are so few buyers/fans left that the series will just fade out along with its fanbase.

 

[NA]

.......... until there are so few buyers/fans left that the series will just fade out along with its fanbase.

Many deaths I've seen involved stagnation of the given game's design/sales growth, followed by a radical change in game design (to capture that "larger casual market"), and resulting with some kind of last version, twisted monstrosity of the original (designed largely around the premise that all potential customers are too stupid to handle anything with more complexity than "The World's Easiest Game".).

Of course, that just ends up pissing off the fanbase, who then scream bloody murder for the next six months, while the supposed "larger market" of casuals never really develops. And when I say scream, I don't mean like what goes on here, where there are two sides, and people debate, fight, whatever. I mean near unanimous rage.

Then the devs throw in some DLC and let simmer for has long has sales trickle in, or there is is still any hope of a turn around. When things don't get better, game developer then announces that the series is no longer profitable, that the market for same no longer exists, or some other excuse that doesn't involve admitting that treating your customers like easily led cattle/morons, who will buy what they're told to buy, probably doesn't do a very good job at opening wallets.

Series canceled.

Is the GT series entering into such a phase?

I have no idea. I hope not. I'm not confident enough to declare it so, but I definitely feel the stagnation on a certain level.

And if this is the scenario, what happens next?

Depends on who has more power. The bean counters, or the fanbase. If the next game comes out "dumbed down" and seemingly oblivious to the things that have kept the fans around this long, few or none of the demands met, then I don't think we'll have to worry about fading out. Good chance that it'll be a "third strike and we're out" quickie ending.

I'm not has sure has some that Sony will be willing to keep funding going over the long term if there isn't a visible turn in course. Regardless of excuses, bean counters always want more, and they're not always long term thinkers, or even logical. I think it'll become sink or swim at some not too distant point in the future, and that may very well be it.

That worries me more than a slow fade. A slow fade over a number of versions is much easier to come back from than a single apocalyptic self destruction release. But to do it does indeed mean defining your market correctly, and producing a complete, high quality product, that excites them into forking out the cash, and like it or not on their part, despite any vision, includes some of the stuff that the community demands, but PD has yet to deliver.

A come back is still possible though.

 

[Johnnypenso]

"The World's Easiest Game"

Depends on who has more power. The bean counters, or the fanbase. If the next game comes out "dumbed down" and seemingly oblivious to the things that have kept the fans around this long, few or none of the demands met, then I don't think we'll have to worry about fading out.

That guy narrating the link was pretty funny

I'm not sure how much more dumbed down GT could get. It's absurd to even call the career mode a career. To dumb it down you'd have to force on RS tires and SRF, and it wouldn't surprise me if they did that

 

[Tenacious D]

Obama? Thanks again for not answering:tup:

Okay smart alec. I'm not worried. Are you so sure that GT6 will never sell another copy as of today? Sure, in that case, two-plus million sales is pretty bad.

Checked the polls here lately?

Do you think Kaz should retire from GT?

1. 
   Yes.
   76 vote(s)
   27.0%
2. *
   No.
   205 vote(s)
   73.0%

Will you still continue with a GT title if project cars turns out to be the game your hoping for ?

1. *
   Yes
   111 vote(s)
   60.0%
2. 
   No
   74 vote(s)
   40.0%

This is the demanding group of fans. Casuals have evidently barely noticed that there are Standard Cars and Tracks in GT5 and 6.

I would add, you guys insisting that P CARS, rFactor 2, Race Room or Assetto Corsa will make any impact on Gran Turismo sales are out to lunch. You act like PC sims have just been invented. The one game that really should make an impact, a veritable clone of Gran Turismo, and prophesied for almost a decade to seriously injure GT's place in the gamingverse, has failed to do so.

Should Kaz and the team be inspired by all these games? Kinda sorta. I would prefer that he not be, because when he is, we get nonsense like Forza's ill fitting XP system. And believe it or not, Turn 10 didn't invent race car liveries or car modifications. I'd much rather Kaz stick to being inspired by the real world of cars and motorsports, weather forecasting and astronomy.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I would add, you guys insisting that P CARS, rFactor 2, Race Room or Assetto Corsa will make any impact on Gran Turismo sales are out to lunch. You act like PC sims have just been invented. The one game that really should make an impact, a veritable clone of Gran Turismo, and prophesied for almost a decade to seriously injure GT's place in the gamingverse, has failed to do so.

Absolutely this. Again.

 

[Supermoney47]

I would add, you guys insisting that P CARS, rFactor 2, Race Room or Assetto Corsa will make any impact on Gran Turismo sales are out to lunch. You act like PC sims have just been invented. The one game that really should make an impact, a veritable clone of Gran Turismo, and prophesied for almost a decade to seriously injure GT's place in the gamingverse, has failed to do so.

I don't think anyone here is saying that there will be a mass exodus from GT. But GT die hards are slowly hitting the hills, 1 by 1. You may think that has no net effect, but you need to open up your mind a little bit. I say that respectfully.

The people on this site have no real financial commitment to Gt, but I would argue we collectively have the most personal interest in the series' success, aside from PD. Malcolm Gladwell would call us connectors. Each of us can influence and 'connect' say 5 people to buy the game who influence 4 more etc etc etc.

If 40% of the GT fanatics out there are willing to jump ship for another product, that's a scary thought. When your business' connectors stop connecting, bad things happen. Hence, unexpected message from site admin about a bmw vgt.

This is something you can currently take note of with AAPL's phone segment(a company struggling to innovate in a changing marketplace), as some of their most early iphone connectors are/have jumped ship to android devices and its fattening Samsung's pockets.

I'm sorry if I come off callous and attacking of GT: I am only trying to stress that things are going awry and other companies can clearly see the opportunity. Sure, other companies fought for the same market space as GT and failed to overtake in the past 10 years. But tbh PD is no longer that well oiled machine it once was in today's rapidly changing marketplace.

PS: As for the GT casuals, well you can gauge their actions easily by reviews. The GT series has been declining since the PS3(9.5, 9.5, 9.8, 9.5, 8.5, 8.0)... well oiled machine losing steam

 

[Tenacious D]

I don't think anyone here is saying that there will be a mass exodus from GT. But GT die hards are slowly hitting the hills, 1 by 1. You may think that has no net effect, but you need to open up your mind a little bit. I say that respectfully.

I think you need to take into account that a number of us are resisting a flood of cranks who have invaded and have little or nothing good to say about Gran Turismo or us. Turn a number of threads into war zones because we DARE to like this series.

I know it seems like we constantly crank out excuses for the series, Polyphony Digital, and Kaz, especially in regard to GT6. But the game, and the company, and Kaz, were stuck in a bad situation.

This is the first time in my memory that a first party flagship game was released AFTER the successor system hit the market. This itself caused a small scale civil war within the fanbase. Many of us wanted the game on PS4, me included. Many of us were right that the game would have most of the same issues as before. Some of us had our minds changed and warmed up to it, such as me. Others stormed off in a huff and haven't bought the game yet, or did grudgingly as they lament YT vids of Forza 5 in all its splendor.

It's pretty clear that SONY insisted on a GT6 released before Christmas this year, and NO DELAYS. This is the first undelayed Gran Turismo ever! But because of this, stuff wasn't ready, so PD put together what they could and made it into a game for us. Then in a completely brain dead move, SONY didn't market the game at ALL. I didn't think it would make that much difference, except that even in this wired age, there are still gamers out there who don't know GT6 is out. My GameStop clerks didn't know when I went to pick it up!

And now, SONY in all its monday morning quarterbacking glory has seen sales dip below expectations, and has apparently told Kaz to work on GT7 full steam ahead. It's like Obama managed the whole thing. This is just nuts. So now, everyone's getting grumpy because the malcontents are making sure everyone is as upset as they are. GT6 is the victim of some very strange circumstances, and we got taken along for the ride.

The game isn't over yet. PD is still working on stuff for it... I assume. GT7, even if a Prologue, won't be ready for months, so it only makes sense that PD will make some further goodies for GT6, though that may mean better sounds and all the promised online features won't be part of it. Since I like it as it is, I'll be happy. Others may resemble zombies more than humans around here.

What's ultimately going to happen, I don't know. Maybe GT7 is two years off, and we'll get most of those GT6 updates after all. Maybe Prologue is coming by my birthday in August, which means all bets are off. Whatever happens, it's going to be interesting.

 

[Tornado]

Some of us had our minds changed and warmed up to it, such as me.

It's nice to know that you've come around to accept the things you've argued so strongly in defense of for the past 4 years now, carried over in many cases identically into GT6. With any luck, and perhaps a little time, you'll even come to accept Standard Cars, AI and the sounds.

Unacceptable... I don't know. That seems to be a completely individual thing. Some of us here are done with the series because of it. Some of us are ecstatic at the prospect. Would millions of fans be angry? That remains to be seen.

This is, by a wide margin, the most transparently pandering thing you've said in quite some time. Sony could get sued over doing the thing that you claim "some of us are ecstatic" over. And if some consumers had the presence of mind to stumble across the ambulance chaser who saw the dollar signs, they would lose, if not in actual monetary value than in irreparable damage to the series' popular perception; because their is no way for Sony to come out the good guys in the headlines that will inevitably come up. You spent half your time in this thread pretending a chance exists that GT6 is meeting the same sales targets that GT5 has been because of incomplete data. You don't get to suddenly entertain the idea that the writing could be on the wall; and you certainly don't get to spin that as something that people could look forward to.
This is a developer who already is used as a punchline for jokes about release dates, showing how good their credibility is. Have been for a decade now. You want to see the GT series destroyed in one full swoop? Not withering away in sales and relevance as it falls behind in features, ideas and effort as claimed by so many; but destroyed? Trot Kaz out on stage at an expo of some sort and have him announce that the GT6 features which made up the bulk of PD's advertising for the game have been cancelled, and instead you'll be able to get those and a promise of "even more" in GT7 "which is coming to PS4 in Fall 2014". People wouldn't even have to make the connection to pushing new sales instead of supporting existing ones themselves. Forget all of the posts in that stupid "why Kaz should go" thread. It wouldn't be an issue, because PD would have to stop existing as a name on the game boxes to get people to have any trust in the series again. Sega in 1995 didn't do so good of a job killing consumer interest by backstabbing them; and no amount of "The GT Series is Sony's flagship that makes other games irrelevant" or "not all GT players are like you forum grumps" non-arguments you throw at it would change that people who were even mildly aware of GT6 news would not believe anything PD said anymore.

 

[brycepunk1]

I sold back my copy. I still enjoy reading the forum, though. I can't support this mockery of a game/company. It amazes me they are still in business. I can't imagine any other gaming company that can release two half-finshed games, offer little support or updates, have zero communications with fans, seem to not care a lick at all what people who bought the game are saying... and still survive. It's like they are trying to fail.

 

[Tenacious D]

It's nice to know that you've come around to accept the things you've argued so strongly in defense of for the past 4 years now, carried over in many cases identically into GT6. With any luck, and perhaps a little time, you'll even come to accept Standard Cars, AI and the sounds.

Err... if this is an attempt at sarcasm, you so fail.

What GT6 is going to do in the market hasn't been written yet, so excuse me if I don't act like it has, or jump on board a hate train for a game that I do care for, and enjoy. I know it boggles your mind that some of us still like GT6, and the Standard cars, and don't mind the sounds, because they aren't brussel sprouts to everyone. And GT5 was supposedly such dog poo that it wouldn't sell, but it sold about as much as the much loved GT4, so what do we know? If GT6 sells at Prologue levels? Oh well. Are you going to throw a party?

And look, I don't care what you think. About the only thing you do here is criticize people and their posts, which is really a mind boggling way to spend time on a board devoted to a game you don't have much affinity for. I'd think that being a member of a community, the idea would be to contribute to it and further discussion and make things more fun somehow. Some of us try to do that very thing. Just seems that being positive in more enjoyable and a little less toxic to me, go figure.

By the way, SONY getting sued over GT6? Sure, whatever... have fun being a zombie.

 

[Tornado]

Err... if this is an attempt at sarcasm, you so fail.

That you can't even see the irony when pointed out of you claiming to be grouped with people who "warmed up" to problems you've never had an issue with simply adds to how clueless your posts come off now that you don't have other people to make the crux of your arguments for you.

Well, most of the time.



With the new GTP, it's not particularly difficult to pull up post histories. Shall we compare how much you've "warmed up" to your already-held-since-2010 viewpoints? I can distinctly remember some notable examples in the year preceding GT6's release we can start with.

What GT6 is going to do in the market hasn't been written yet, so excuse me if I don't act like it has, or jump on board a hate train for a game that I do care for, and enjoy.

You're excused. Just don't treat absence of evidence as evidence of absence (in this case, that we don't have GT6's final sales data 3 years out as proof it could still sell as well as GT5), and this hopefully won't happen again.

I know it boggles your mind that some of us still like GT6, and the Standard cars, and don't mind the sounds, because they aren't brussel sprouts to everyone.

Not at all. I certainly like some pretty piss poor games despite how many problems I know they have. I'm probably the only one in the world who enjoyed NFS Pro Street (once I got a wheel), and played it for far more time than I ever did GT6 despite it being far worse.



It does boggle my mind that people defend them as if the problems don't exist, because I simply cannot grasp how they can be so deluded to think that they can sway others into thinking the same.

And look, I don't care what you think.

Shocker.

About the only thing you do here is criticize people and their posts, which is really a mind boggling way to spend time on a board devoted to a game you don't have much affinity for. I'd think that being a member of a community, the idea would be to contribute to it and further discussion and make things more fun somehow. Some of us try to do that very thing. Just seems that being positive in more enjoyable and a little less toxic to me, go figure.

Oh look. Tenacious D attacking someone's reason for membership rather than actually defending a point he brought up.

I can't wait until you try to describe a member's posting behavior/personality by their avatars again. Maybe we will even be beholden to another financial lesson about Sony. And an appearance of the political stylings of how Obama is at fault for everything, perhaps? Always a ride.


I better PM Wardez and have him take me off the official GTP podcast, though. My "toxic" viewpoints simply have no place in something that is supposed to further discussion.

have fun being a zombie.

Oh look. Tenacious D applying a trite label to people who disagree with them to try to dismiss what they are saying rather than debate what they are saying.

I wonder what the next term will be. Have to say that "forum grumps" and "whiners" were more inspired than implying that people complaining are just following the current board momentum.

By the way, SONY getting sued over GT6? Sure, whatever...

You want to tell me what else would come from any announcement to the effect of GT6 post development being cancelled in it's current state to focus on GT7 instead? Because here's a hint: It's not people jumping for joy to be able to buy GT7. It might not even need to take the form of a lawsuit. Videogame companies have been nailed by government bodies for advertising SNAFUs over far more innocuous things than what you're claiming Sony would be able to do and have some people want to see.


Perhaps you can further explain how Sony would come out as the victor in a lawsuit that would spread through gaming sites like wildfire as many variations of "Sony sued over cancelling promised GT6 features for GT7 development;" even if they did win the suit (which I admit they almost certainly would).

 

[Whitestar]

Back on topic...

I almost forgot that I will have to buy a PS4 in order to play GT7.

So since I already have a powerful PC then I'll be getting Project CARS first.
Assuming GT7 is going to be as good as or better than GT6 in the physics/FFB/"car-to-road" department, then I will most likely be making the PS3 to PS4 shift, because that's where the fun in GT6 lies for me.

With both Assetto Corsa and Project CARS coming, this year looks promising indeed. And some competition on the PS4 in the form of PCars can only do the GT series good.

 

[Pete05]

A quick google gave me no official sales numbers, but let's say those are accurate. Is the lack of any real updates this month a possible indication that PD has shifted work onto GT7 in earnest? Could be. Does this mean that a GT7 Prologue by fall is all but guaranteed? Could be. Would that be a bad thing to you? I've been excited at the prospect of a GT7P since the blurb came out, but what about you guys?

GT7P!!! Too bad for those of us that bought GT6 on day 1 AND paid full price for it huh?
I've been loyal to Kaz, PD & GT1-6 but I'll be 🤬 If I'm gunna spend another cent on anything to do with GT7 without having a very thorough look at exactly what's on offer on Day 1. Not listening to empty promises & marketing blurb. Put the cards on the table Kaz & co. There had better be a massive improvement in offline content too. How many of us have sub standard internet connection? How many don't have it at all? Too bad for them huh? We've got your money now so we don't give a toss attitude written all over PD now

I expect a passionate reply from you Tenacious D. Your sounding more & more like a fanboy with each post 👎. How do you manage to type with both hands on your hips?