Windows Vista, Mac OS X Leopard, & Ubuntu "Edgy Eft"

[Casio]

Care to explain how to do this??

1. Download Daemon tools
2. Once installed you should have a little lightning bolt in the taskbar, right click on it.
3. Scroll up to Virtual CD/DVD ROM - Device 0: [E:]* - Mount Image (*It might not be E: depending on how many drives/partitions you have, but it doesn't matter)
4. Mount the Vista ISO file
5. 
6. Install Vista as normal

However, I did the install this way on another partition to dual-boot. I'm not 100% sure that this method works if you're doing a clean install.

 

[dougiemeats]

Calling All Mac Users:

So, we know a few of the features of Mac OS X "Leopard" already. Some are exciting while others were predictable. Besides the features revealed at WWDC, I'd like to hear what else you want to see in Leopard.

Of course, there's the usual call to FTFF. (If you don't know what that is, it has something to do with fixing the Finder, but with another 'F' thrown in there. ) I personally have nothing against the Finder, but it could be better.

I'm a bit undecided on the issue of UI consistency. I've been using GNOME as my desktop environment on Ubuntu for a while now, and I am starting to appreciate its user interface. The colors, buttons, skins, etc. are consistent throughout the whole system. However, I don't mind all inconsistencies in Tiger. So, it doesn't really matter to me which direction they choose to go with Leopard, as long as they don't go down the iTunes 7 route. They hit that thing with the ugly stick.

There are also other small improvements additions I want to see. I'd like for Apple to improve on Front Row. It has a lot of potential, and although I don't use it much on my iMac, I'd like to use it more in the future. Also, add more features to PhotoBooth. You might think it's stupid, but my brothers and sister love this fun little app.

So, what do you guys want to see in Leopard?

 

[CDailey]

I want to see it right in front of me.

 

[skip0110]

My XP works all day, everyday. Rarely crashes, I don't get viruses. All my programs work on it. Do I really need to change? Thoughts?

I can get the betas for free and I haven't made the slightest effort to install them, for the same reason you mentioned.

XP works fine, heck, there is hardly anything I miss when I use 2000 at work.

I don't think the Windows crowd is as loyal as the Mac crowd and willing to pony up for the next release.

 

[Burnout]

I can get the betas for free and I haven't made the slightest effort to install them, for the same reason you mentioned.

XP works fine, heck, there is hardly anything I miss when I use 2000 at work.

I don't think the Windows crowd is as loyal as the Mac crowd and willing to pony up for the next release.

Usually I would agree with you as you’ve hit the proverbial nail on the head, however I think upgrading to Vista is different. Allow me to explain:

The differences between Windows (assumed from this point forward) 2000 and XP, particularly for a power user, are few and far between. Heck, numerous people use the Classic theme, causing XP to look and feel even more like 2000. Thing is though, Vista really has some differences that I think make it a worthy upgrade.

This is where I would typically go into all of the exciting, ground-breaking new features of Vista(!), but I'm sure you've already read from countless sources all about them. Granted, off the bat, a great deal of them seem like useless, resource-intensive addons, but truthfully if you use the OS for an extended period of time, a lot of them make sense.

You really have to own a nice computer for Vista to flex its wings. I recall recently reading about some MS Rep who was saying that, while on a 512MB RAM computer, Vista would seem slower than XP, but on a system with 1GB of memory and above, it really starts to pull ahead in terms of performance - and I would agree. On top of that, it handles heavy application loads better in my opinion (smoother, if you will). Best of all, the fancy 3D features and new interface... They really don't take up many extra resources, aside from the added GPU load – But MS should’ve taken advantage of the GPU a long time ago; it essentially sits there doing nothing while you’re using XP.


I recommend giving Vista a try, but not as your only OS - It is a beta, so as you know, driver support and application support is so-so. The good news is that with the RTM release, application developers and hardware manufacturers will get a chance to really finish up the loose ends.

I'm looking forward to the release in January for sure.

 

[DuckRacer]

Of course, there's the usual call to FTFF. (If you don't know what that is, it has something to do with fixing the Finder, but with another 'F' thrown in there. ) I personally have nothing against the Finder, but it could be better.

Really, what can be improved about it? I hear from Mac people all the time that the Finder needs improved, but how?

But about the new Finder, a member on the MacNN forums (who called out new features in Tiger months before anyone... and was right) said that there would be a new Finder, but then supposedly had to take down his post because of Apple's complaints, so we'll see.

However, I don't mind all inconsistencies in Tiger.

Could you name a few?

So, it doesn't really matter to me which direction they choose to go with Leopard, as long as they don't go down the iTunes 7 route. They hit that thing with the ugly stick.

Really? I like it.

There are also other small improvements additions I want to see. I'd like for Apple to improve on Front Row. It has a lot of potential, and although I don't use it much on my iMac, I'd like to use it more in the future. Also, add more features to PhotoBooth. You might think it's stupid, but my brothers and sister love this fun little app.

Yeah, Front Row improvements would be great. Could care less about Photo Booth though since I don't have a webcam.

So, what do you guys want to see in Leopard?

Well, the option to customize the toolbar in TextEdit would be nice, so I wouldn't have to use key combos to bold stuff (yes, I use a simple text editor for a MS Word replacement, kinda sad).

Having more themes to choose from would be good too.

Having a widget sidebar like in Vista would be more convenient than the dashboard. I know you can have widgets on the desktop with certain hacks, but I'd prefer to have a more organized widget area.

I don't know if this is possible, but an improved Rosetta would be great too, so when you're launching PPC programs, it wouldn't take as much time to start it up.

Other than that, I really can't think of anything else. After seeing that Safari will have dragable tabs and an inline Find function, Firefox style, I'm pretty much sold on Leopard.

 

[skip0110]

Burnout -

Even if Vista was, say 10% faster, it's unlikely that I would install it on this computer, at least, because I have a really nice setup that I'd not like to invest the time to recreate.

Of the features that it includes, I though that the start menu find would be the most useful, but then I found Lanchy which frankly seems to be an even better idea.

When I look at the set of OS features that I use, it is pretty limited...Alt-Tab, task manager, IIS control panel, and Explorer. All of which I am very comfortable with and don't see any need for change in. Especially Explorer--any changes that take me away from the direct file system interface I'm sure I will resent. Virtual folders? No thanks. I'd like to know where my files actually are, thank you. Metadata? Not if I have to enter it manually. Rankings? I could do that via various MP3 players and never once found it useful. Transparency? I can get transparency in XP and I find it useful in only very limited situations.

EDIT - Oh yeah and I also use the command prompt. I haven't heard of any improvements in that.

And if Microsoft thinks that a RTM release a few months before January is enough time to get driver and application compatibility ironed out I want some of whatever they are on. Not gonna happen.

I probably will end up using Vista for testing software but I think it's going to be a while before the killer app shows up and only runs on Vista that convinces me to move over.

 

[Burnout]

Burnout -

Even if Vista was, say 10% faster, it's unlikely that I would install it on this computer, at least, because I have a really nice setup that I'd not like to invest the time to recreate.

Of the features that it includes, I though that the start menu find would be the most useful, but then I found Lanchy which frankly seems to be an even better idea.

When I look at the set of OS features that I use, it is pretty limited...Alt-Tab, task manager, IIS control panel, and Explorer. All of which I am very comfortable with and don't see any need for change in. Especially Explorer--any changes that take me away from the direct file system interface I'm sure I will resent. Virtual folders? No thanks. I'd like to know where my files actually are, thank you. Metadata? Not if I have to enter it manually. Rankings? I could do that via various MP3 players and never once found it useful. Transparency? I can get transparency in XP and I find it useful in only very limited situations.

EDIT - Oh yeah and I also use the command prompt. I haven't heard of any improvements in that.

And if Microsoft thinks that a RTM release a few months before January is enough time to get driver and application compatibility ironed out I want some of whatever they are on. Not gonna happen.

I probably will end up using Vista for testing software but I think it's going to be a while before the killer app shows up and only runs on Vista that convinces me to move over.

Understandably - and obviously you are a power user, using applications such as the IIS CP and command prompt.

I still hold to my original opinion, though: If you take some time and really try to use it, I think you'll find the improvements, both graphical and otherwise, quite worth the investment in time and money.

By the way, Alt-tab, Explorer, and the task manager are all improved, and as a hardcore computer user myself, the changes are welcomed.

 

[GT4_Rule]

I'm in the Vista camp, for mostly the same reasons as Burnout. Unfortunately I didn't have the option of using Vista for many applications, but from what I've done with my beta install, I'm impressed. I just hope that Microsoft will fix the driver support issue.

 

[dougiemeats]

There seems to be two good discussions going, and I'd like to give my opinion on both. I'll start with Duck's reply:

Really, what can be improved about it? I hear from Mac people all the time that the Finder needs improved, but how?

Like I said, I have no problem with it, but I'm sure Steve Jobs can slap a few heads at Cupertino and make it better.

Could you name a few [Tiger inconsistencies]?

I'm not in front of a Mac at the moment, but iTunes, GarageBand, and iCal all have different skins. Also, the buttons for Mail are different from the rest. iTunes 7 is also inconsistent with the rest of the UI, which brings me to my next point...

Really? I like it.

Where's aqua? Why are LIBRARY, STORE, PLAYLISTS, etc. capitalized!? The little things annoy me. I found out how to change these, but I haven't bothered (mainly because I only use it when I go home).

Well, the option to customize the toolbar in TextEdit would be nice, so I wouldn't have to use key combos to bold stuff (yes, I use a simple text editor for a MS Word replacement, kinda sad).

TextEdit is great. I have NeoOffice installed, but I prefer the simplicity of TextEdit. Besides, NeoOffice is so slow (well, for PPC anyways). I also wouldn't mind a few improvements.

Having a widget sidebar like in Vista would be more convenient than the dashboard. I know you can have widgets on the desktop with certain hacks, but I'd prefer to have a more organized widget area.

I really like the idea of Vista's Sidebar, but my desktop is cluttered enough with windows (yay for the new Spaces feature!), so sometimes I appreciate the fact that the widgets are on a different layer. Especially when it's only one middle-click away to launch Dashboard. It all depends on the user I suppose.

I don't know if this is possible, but an improved Rosetta would be great too, so when you're launching PPC programs, it wouldn't take as much time to start it up.

It's certainly possible, and I think Rosetta performance has improved in the early builds of Leopard.

Other than that, I really can't think of anything else. After seeing that Safari will have dragable tabs and an inline Find function, Firefox style, I'm pretty much sold on Leopard.

I said this about Vista; it's the little things that make it worth the upgrade. The new Safari's inline find is a welcomed feature from me. It's hard to live without it after using Firefox.

 

[dougiemeats]

I hope the mods don't mind this double-post, since it would only make sense that I split these two up.

skip and Casio, you guys bring up a very good point. If you are productive with Windows XP, and it reliably does everything you need it to do, then you have good reason to stick with it (as long as Microsoft still supports it with updates).

However, I have come across people saying that when they purchase a PC with Vista, they will install XP instead. I'm sure they have their reasons, valid or not, but this won't be the case for me. I will probably never buy the retail version of Vista, but I'm certainly not afraid to purchase a Vista PC.

Unlike a lot of people, I do think it's a huge improvement over XP. The improved Start menu, the new search function, "Home folder" (instead of My Documents), cookie-crumb address bar, and the overall beauty of the Aero interface; there is much to like. Of course, some things still don't make sense to me, such as a few UI inconsistencies, the strange menu interface, and Flip-3D, but hopefully they can get these things right in the next version.

People have made such a big deal about Vista's "heavy requirements." The PCs that people buy in the next few years will be more than capable of Vista. For those not buying a new PC in the next few years, then go ahead and stick with Windows XP. It will be supported for quite some time. But I must ask: Why is everyone afraid of change? Technology improves at a rapid rate, and I'm glad modern operating systems are taking advantage of these improvements.

In the end, I think everyone can agree that XP needed a successor. I mean, it's been what, five or six years now? I hope people weren't thinking that XP, single-core processors, and 256-512MB RAM would be the standard forever. Vista might not be as good as it should be, but it's certainly good enough to be considered an upgrade.

 

[Burnout]

*snip*...and Flip-3D, but hopefully they can get these things right in the next version.

It's funny really how useless Flip 3D really is. Honestly, if you have more than two windows open, there is absolutely no point in using it. The new alt-tab with live thumbnails is pretty nice though.

What excites me far more than Flip 3D and the default Aero theme is that it's they're running on an all new, completely 3D-based enviroment. Think of the ever-popular uxtheme.dll patch - Imagine what people will be able to do with the new system, once they've learned how to customize it.

 

[dougiemeats]

It's funny really how useless Flip 3D really is. Honestly, if you have more than two windows open, there is absolutely no point in using it. The new alt-tab with live thumbnails is pretty nice though.

It's probably one of those features that they implemented simply because they could. It looks cool, but where's the functionality? Does it make me more productive? I would have preferred some sort of Exposé-style feature. That would make more sense to me.

Oh man, if Vista had some sort of Exposé and a good virtual desktop manager (unlike XP's pathetic one)... How about adding these two features next time. Does that sound good to you, Microsoft?

Edit: Well, one problem is solved:



Now I wait for a decent virtual desktop manager...

What excites me far more than Flip 3D and the default Aero theme is that it's they're running on an all new, completely 3D-based enviroment. Think of the ever-popular uxtheme.dll patch - Imagine what people will be able to do with the new system, once they've learned how to customize it.

The potential is there. Now it's up to the creative minds to give us something amazing. I can't wait.

 

[Casio]

To me the only difference I found using Vista was a flash new UI and the renamed some of the folders. But even I found some of the new features annoying, like that awful start menu.

I'm just hoping that people don't think because XP crashes and is unreliable for them that an upgrade to Vista will be a magic fix. XP is only as unreliable as you make it, more then likely, if you go around installing all kinds of **** from the internet Vista will end up as slow and virus prone as your XP machine.

I run a pretty average machine by todays standards. (3500+, 512MB RAM), but I still run XP flawlessly, open up folders/files almost instantaneously. Using Vista, I was still able to run Aero, and maintain a pretty similar speed. So I will say that Vista is not as process hogging as it can be made out to be.

 

[dougiemeats]

My first complaint has been resolved. See the screenshot above.

But even I found some of the new features annoying, like that awful start menu.

Really? I thought Vista's Start menu was an improvement over XP's. I'm assuming you're talking about the new tree-view for the list of programs. But with the new search, I don't think I ever had to click on "Show All Programs."

BTW, I also set it the 'recent applications' list to small icons, so more would fit. Again, this eliminated the need to "Show All Programs."

 

[DuckRacer]

Like I said, I have no problem with it, but I'm sure Steve Jobs can slap a few heads at Cupertino and make it better.

Well, if you don't have a problem with the Finder, then why do you want it fixed? What thing(s) do you want to be implemented/removed/tweaked?

I'm not in front of a Mac at the moment, but iTunes, GarageBand, and iCal all have different skins. Also, the buttons for Mail are different from the rest. iTunes 7 is also inconsistent with the rest of the UI, which brings me to my next point...

Where's aqua? Why are LIBRARY, STORE, PLAYLISTS, etc. capitalized!? The little things annoy me. I found out how to change these, but I haven't bothered (mainly because I only use it when I go home).

Could you send me the link to change the capitalization?

TextEdit is great. I have NeoOffice installed, but I prefer the simplicity of TextEdit. Besides, NeoOffice is so slow (well, for PPC anyways). I also wouldn't mind a few improvements.

NeoOffice is straight up unusable. Besides, it looks like it got ripped off Windows.

I really like the idea of Vista's Sidebar, but my desktop is cluttered enough with windows (yay for the new Spaces feature!), so sometimes I appreciate the fact that the widgets are on a different layer. Especially when it's only one middle-click away to launch Dashboard. It all depends on the user I suppose.

I think if it was just an option, that'd be great.

It's certainly possible, and I think Rosetta performance has improved in the early builds of Leopard.

Cool.

 

[dougiemeats]

Well, if you don't have a problem with the Finder, then why do you want it fixed? What thing(s) do you want to be implemented/removed/tweaked?

I don't think it needs "fixing" necessarily, but I am a big fan of the 'cookie-crumb' method when going from on directory to another. Using Vista's Windows Explorer and [Ubuntu] GNOME's Nautilus, I can easily go back and forth from one directory to another by simply clicking on the directory's name on the address bar.

That's just one thing I'd like added. I'm sure there are many more things that can be done to make it better, but I'm just the end-user who likes to complain about small GUI things. So I'll let the creative minds on Leopard team come up their own improvements.

Could you send me the link to change the capitalization?

Here you go. 👍 Remember to repair permissions afterwards.

NeoOffice is straight up unusable. Besides, it looks like it got ripped off Windows.

Didn't they finally add aqua? Still slow, but at least it's now pretty to look at.

 

[gregc]

Well the comments about the finder in OSX got me looking around to see what the fuss is about, and I found this article which does a pretty good job of outlining what some people dislike about it. Personally I haven't actually used a Mac since about 1986 so I have no real opinion either way

Regarding Vista, having tried both the last beta and RC1 I see nothing there that would make me buy it - not to mention that for me Ubuntu+Beryl is better anyway. The search bit in the Start menu is pretty well implemented, and Aero does look good, but for me all the really useful features (WinFS, the improved commandline, other things I can't remember right now) are the ones that got removed.

Bottom line - if at some point I buy a PC and Vista is preinstalled it has nothing that would make me even think before wiping it and installing Ubuntu. I am of course aware that this puts me firmly in the minority

 

[Seanman]

Actually, now that I've paid attention to it, I think Apple changed the capitalization of iTunes back to the old way in update 7.02, with Library, Playlists, etc...

 

[DuckRacer]

Actually, now that I've paid attention to it, I think Apple changed the capitalization of iTunes back to the old way in update 7.02, with Library, Playlists, etc...

Really? iTunes 7.0.2 is (or was, thanks dougiemeats!) capitalized for me.

 

[Burnout]

This is not confirmed, but there are rumors of an additional theme shipping with Vista Ultimate.

Check it out. I dig it, particularly the Flip 3d variant.

 

[Midnight Runner]

A bit about Vista EULA that just get me PO'ed.


This gives me creeps.

 

[Burnout]

A bit about Vista EULA that just get me PO'ed.


This gives me creeps.

It PO'ed a lot of people, so they revised it.

Note the date on the articles, or even read the EULA for yourself. When I first found about the update to the transfer agreement, I was certainly happy. 👍

 

[gregc]

It PO'ed a lot of people, so they revised it.

Which is good news - however there is still quite a lot that I'm personally not happy with in the agreement - I'll avoid an OS that could potentially stop itself working because some server at MS has a glitch...

 

[Midnight Runner]

Which is good news - however there is still quite a lot that I'm personally not happy with in the agreement - I'll avoid an OS that could potentially stop itself working because some server at MS has a glitch...

now that is what I meant,when i said what gets me PO'ed by Vista.

I think I'll follow gregc and avoid vista,for a loooooooong time. atleast until XP isn't supported.

 

[F1GTR]

My first complaint has been resolved. See the screenshot above.

Sadly it doesn't seem to work for me

 

[zoxxy]

Okay everyone, I know I'm faaar behind, but I'm downloading Ubuntu 6.06.1 right now. Anyone who can tell me if I'm doing the right thing, switching from XP?

Specs:
CPU: P4 1.8Ghz
512 mb RAM
GPU: Nvidia 6200GT
Windows XP Home Edition SP2

Thanks for the help!

 

[gregc]

Okay everyone, I know I'm faaar behind, but I'm downloading Ubuntu 6.06.1 right now. Anyone who can tell me if I'm doing the right thing, switching from XP?

Specs:
CPU: P4 1.8Ghz
512 mb RAM
GPU: Nvidia 6200GT
Windows XP Home Edition SP2

Thanks for the help!

Well, I'd say you're definitely doing the right thing - but I'm biased

Your system shouldn't have a problem running it, try it off the liveCD first and see how you get on with it. Much as I hate to say it, you'll probably want to keep Windows around for a bit in case you need it.

You'll find plenty of other info in the Linux Transition Thread, and you're probably better posting any detailed questions there - you should get all the answers you need.

Good Luck!

 

[standard235]

Ran great on my computer. Same specs except I have integrated graphics and excruciatingly slow RAM.

 

[CDailey]

Well, I'm downloading Boot Camp right now. I have a hankering to play Half Life 2 and FEAR and since my PC has been turned into a file server, I'm gonna have to install Windows on my MBP. Wish me luck!