would you prefer super hard end game races for non-purchaseable prize cars?

[Soundtrack]

Not everybody has a chance to beat a career level race?

Possibly but:

And im not talking about just 2 sec faster than gold time A.I. Im thinking like top 2% time with Super Dirty Michael Schumacher A.I.

Nonetheless, I genuinely do appreciate people who have the ambition to surpass the limits, it just looks to me some people simply overstep them. Nothing’s wrong with having higher goals in life, as long as you keep the rigorously same level of requirement regarding your ethics.

 

[JTB10000]

... Hes beating an LMP in a GT500 car...

...with a level 4 turbo and downforce and tuning adjustments...

 

[sk8er913]

...with a level 4 turbo and downforce and tuning adjustments...

Makes a little more sense now... lol

 

[HuskyGT]

No. I never got to drive the Model T in GT4...

 

[Rob192005]

I don't think any of the prize cars should be purchasable but that's just me okay maybe the sunday cup might be a Leaf with a "special" or odd paint job but you get the point,I know alot won't agree but yeah.

 

[Soundtrack]

I don't think any of the prize cars should be purchasable but that's just me okay maybe the sunday cup might be a Leaf with a "special" or odd paint job but you get the point,I know alot won't agree but yeah.

Actually, I would consider a "raz′zle-daz′zle" car paint job limited exclusive an acceptable compromise.

 

[Northstar]

I voted no as obviously not everyone is in the top 2% of times, it would be quite unfair to most people. However I would fully support having a special version of a purchasable car(chromeline, stealth etc.) as an end game prize for someone who is able to go extremely fast(so long as it doesn't count for 100%).

Anyone who doesn't want that obviously just wants to sail through the game without a challenge

Or you're like me and just suck, it has nothing to do with wanting to sail through the game(it's the opposite actually), in fact I've spent hours hot lapping and tuning, but find I'm always somewhere in the middle on the leaderboards. I'm fine with that fact and have come to terms with it, however I would still like to be able to beat the game and collect all the cars.

 

[Coenraad]

My vote goes for the 3rd. Simply becourse i would like the races to bee a bit more challenging. Like the online challenges we have now in GT5. They are considerably harder then the races in career mode.
So i would like more of those for special cars. I don't think it is a problem making people sweat a little before giving them a car.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I want hard and challenging AI (how about the original idea of varied difficulty?) but I don't like cars being withheld from me until I finish X event either.

I've seen it all before, I've got all gold on every single license test on GT1, GT2, GT3, GT4 and GT5, and really when I pick up a racing game now I just want to choose a car, tune and modify it how I please, and challenge myself in a suitable event.

I think I would rather the offline events be locked but all the cars being available. That way there is still a career 'progression' but there is less hoops to jump through to enjoy the cars you want to drive.

 

[Rob192005]

I think I would rather the offline events be locked but all the cars being available. That way there is still a career 'progression' but there is less hoops to jump through to enjoy the cars you want to drive.

This perhaps with "RM'd" or different liveried purchasable cars as prizes would be great in my opinion.

 

[hyyperactive]

In the first gt I loved the Normal Car Cup. You could not tune your car at all and the ai had some fast cars. There were some easy cars to do it and there were some more challenging ones. I'd like to see more events like that.

As for difficulty I think the game should provide the option to choose meaningful difficulty levels. Easy should be easy and hard should be hard. There is no reason just to have a super easy mode like in gt5.

More to the point I think the game should definitely have some really hard races with exceptional rewards. Rwards like cars you could not get otherwise. I think it would make the game better and deeper.

I hate this modern entitlement era where every player thinks he should just be able to stroll through the game and just win and beat everything easily to get all the reward content just because he paid for the "full game". I hate when games just throw meaningless rewards at you for simply sitting in front of your tv and mindlessly pressing buttons once in a while. "Congratulations you finished 1st out 16 in your x2010 against full field of bicycles! Here is your 50 million credits, golden medal pro gamer award and 20 prototype cars!"

I don't see a problem at all with the idea that if you are not good enough or not willing to put in the time and effort you should not be given the rewards. I never finished the vettel challenge in gt5 and I don't expect the game just give the reward to me just because I think it is "unfair" others got something I do not have...

I'm not saying games should be difficult. I don't say that at all. But games should offer challenge in two ways. First offer the kind of experience the player wants. Does he want to finish first every race on the first time with the ai letting him win on purpose or does that player want a challenge with ai and opposition that really makes him work to outsmart and outskill the game? Or something between those two options. Allow players play the game the way they want.

Secondly offer meaningful game content that rewards skill, dedication and passion. Give meaningful challenges and rewards to those who are good at playing your game. Make those extremely hard competitions available. I don't mind giving special cars as rewards. I think giving rare concept models for example would be awesome. For example have a difficult ford themed race series and give the winner of that series the gt90 concept car as reward. And if that player wins all the series races give him a special livery for that car as well.

 

[snowgt]

I would like tough races (and not only in the end, but all the way through), but not to be rewarded with additional game content that you can't access otherwise. That's exactly why there's trophies. You can brag about having beaten the toughest challenges, but the average gamer should also have a reasonable chance to access the whole game, not just parts of it. They paid for it just like everyone else, so why should they be denied? Also, why should someone have to jump through hoops so they get a car they just want to use for online races? After all, there will be more and more people that actually don't buy a GT-game for the offline mode.

 

[Johnnypenso]

In the first gt I loved the Normal Car Cup. You could not tune your car at all and the ai had some fast cars. There were some easy cars to do it and there were some more challenging ones. I'd like to see more events like that.

As for difficulty I think the game should provide the option to choose meaningful difficulty levels. Easy should be easy and hard should be hard. There is no reason just to have a super easy mode like in gt5.

More to the point I think the game should definitely have some really hard races with exceptional rewards. Rwards like cars you could not get otherwise. I think it would make the game better and deeper.

I hate this modern entitlement era where every player thinks he should just be able to stroll through the game and just win and beat everything easily to get all the reward content just because he paid for the "full game". I hate when games just throw meaningless rewards at you for simply sitting in front of your tv and mindlessly pressing buttons once in a while. "Congratulations you finished 1st out 16 in your x2010 against full field of bicycles! Here is your 50 million credits, golden medal pro gamer award and 20 prototype cars!"

I don't see a problem at all with the idea that if you are not good enough or not willing to put in the time and effort you should not be given the rewards. I never finished the vettel challenge in gt5 and I don't expect the game just give the reward to me just because I think it is "unfair" others got something I do not have...

I'm not saying games should be difficult. I don't say that at all. But games should offer challenge in two ways. First offer the kind of experience the player wants. Does he want to finish first every race on the first time with the ai letting him win on purpose or does that player want a challenge with ai and opposition that really makes him work to outsmart and outskill the game? Or something between those two options. Allow players play the game the way they want.

Secondly offer meaningful game content that rewards skill, dedication and passion. Give meaningful challenges and rewards to those who are good at playing your game. Make those extremely hard competitions available. I don't mind giving special cars as rewards. I think giving rare concept models for example would be awesome. For example have a difficult ford themed race series and give the winner of that series the gt90 concept car as reward. And if that player wins all the series races give him a special livery for that car as well.

Don't get me started on our entitlement world, I'm sure we're in full agreement there, but I don't think that analogy belongs in video games. This game has to appeal to every skill level, from little Johnny to Grandma and everyone in between. Little Johnny may not whine to have his Dad buy GT7 if he sees Slightly Bigger Simon driving cars in his living room that Little Johnny can't unlock because he isn't good/fast enough.

It's PD's solution to that the I would take issue with. Easy as pie for everyone, one-size-fits-all ASpec and gigantic unrealistic payouts in Seasonal Events. ASpec is easy to fix, just add difficulty levels and choose the difficulty level you want to play at, that challenges you. Done. Problem solved forever. The high Seasonal payouts become necessary if you want players to have reasonable access to those extremely high priced cars without having to grind for 100 hours to get them. While doing so they devalue the lower priced cars because you can buy 50 average priced cars just by sitting down for 10 minutes in Seasonal. If you brought the prices of the rarer cars down to something more flexible like $2,000,000 then you could have Seasonal Payouts like $200,000 which would make much more sense in the economy of the game.

 

[MasterFocus]

Adapting difficulty would be great

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I have to vote no as well, I would like to be able to get any car once I have enough credits to buy it without having to run a specific race that may be locked until all the other races are done

 

[DVNTST8]

Mission 34 hard? No thank you.

 

[Roflwaffle]

(so long as it doesn't count for 100%).
Or you're like me and just suck, it has nothing to do with wanting to sail through the game(it's the opposite actually), in fact I've spent hours hot lapping and tuning, but find I'm always somewhere in the middle on the leaderboards. I'm fine with that fact and have come to terms with it, however I would still like to be able to beat the game and collect all the cars.

I don't want the career to have super hard difficulty only, I want there to be multiple difficulty choices instead of just one, which in GT5 was super easy because PD have to make it super easy for people who are beginners, but I don't want to be bored to death playing the game because its so easy, just because PD has to tailor the game for the beginners leaving the experienced players really disappointed that the game is so easy and boring.

 

[Cosbuster]

Mission 34 hard? No thank you.

These driving missions are the prime example of how you don't make something difficult. But somehow, PD thought it was so good that every seasonal in GT5 had to be this way.

 

[glassjaw]

It's PD's solution to that the I would take issue with. Easy as pie for everyone, one-size-fits-all ASpec and gigantic unrealistic payouts in Seasonal Events. ASpec is easy to fix, just add difficulty levels and choose the difficulty level you want to play at, that challenges you. Done. Problem solved forever. The high Seasonal payouts become necessary if you want players to have reasonable access to those extremely high priced cars without having to grind for 100 hours to get them. While doing so they devalue the lower priced cars because you can buy 50 average priced cars just by sitting down for 10 minutes in Seasonal. If you brought the prices of the rarer cars down to something more flexible like $2,000,000 then you could have Seasonal Payouts like $200,000 which would make much more sense in the economy of the game.

The seasonal events - as I view them anyway - were a last minute band-aid by PD to fix the broken leveling and reward system in GT5. In past GT's, A-spec events would pay out a higher amount than they did in GT5, and there were also much more of them. Earning prize money was less a matter of grinding the same races repeatedly, but rather natural progression through the game. Also, many of GT5's A-spec events required wildly expensive cars that were inaccessible early on, again because payout was low and the level system prevented you from buying certain cars and entering certain races. With seasonal events, PD blew these restrictions wide open. There was so much money and experience to go around that none of those gateways to progress existed anymore. As much as I prefer having to earn what I drive, it was the right decision because at launch, GT5 was just far too restrictive and slow to progress in.

However, that doesn't mean in general that locked content and typical, old-school career modes are a bad thing. GT5's was just terribly designed. If PD returned to GT1-4's system, I would be perfectly happy.

These driving missions are the prime example of how you don't make something difficult. But somehow, PD thought it was so good that every seasonal in GT5 had to be this way.

Seasonal events can be challenging, but they're certainly winnable. To this day, I have not completed mission 23 (Skylines at the Test Course) let alone mission 34, and certainly not from a lack of trying. I would like to see harder races, but never that hard.

 

[g0ld]

The seasonal events - as I view them anyway - were a last minute band-aid by PD to fix the broken leveling and reward system in GT5. In past GT's, A-spec events would pay out a higher amount than they did in GT5, and there were also much more of them. Earning prize money was less a matter of grinding the same races repeatedly, but rather natural progression through the game. Also, many of GT5's A-spec events required wildly expensive cars that were inaccessible early on, again because payout was low and the level system prevented you from buying certain cars and entering certain races. With seasonal events, PD blew these restrictions wide open. There was so much money and experience to go around that none of those gateways to progress existed anymore. As much as I prefer having to earn what I drive, it was the right decision because at launch, GT5 was just far too restrictive and slow to progress in.

However, that doesn't mean in general that locked content and typical, old-school career modes are a bad thing. GT5's was just terribly designed. If PD returned to GT1-4's system, I would be perfectly happy.



Seasonal events can be challenging, but they're certainly winnable. To this day, I have not completed mission 23 (Skylines at the Test Course) let alone mission 34, and certainly not from a lack of trying. I would like to see harder races, but never that hard.

Mission 34 difficulty (at least in PAL version) is pretty acceptable difficulty for something end-game. I beat it in my second try while replaying GT4 and I'm no driving expert (but I did gold all licenses twice).

 

[Roflwaffle]

Couldn't be bothered with the driving missions in GT4, they just seemed like a waste of time to me.

 

[Roflwaffle]

.
I think I would rather the offline events be locked but all the cars being available. That way there is still a career 'progression' but there is less hoops to jump through to enjoy the cars you want to drive.

That's what its going to be like in GT6 looking at the screenshots. You progress through the game and earn new events by earning stars from doing events, which I think is a terrible idea.

 

[glassjaw]

Mission 34 difficulty (at least in PAL version) is pretty acceptable difficulty for something end-game. I beat it in my second try while replaying GT4 and I'm no driving expert (but I did gold all licenses twice).

The fact that you consider it acceptable and I don't is exactly why there should be multiple difficulty options, as johnny said.

 

[SavageEvil]

Thanks Dr. Freud For some people the fun is the endless challenge and difficulty, and they don't get frustrated just because they can't have everything in the game they want as quickly as possible. The game needs to accomodate everyone, but it shouldn't do so by reducing it to the lowest common denominator the way that ASpec has been dumbed down for example.

You do realize that GT5 was the first GT game to actually lock cars away right? You had access to every car if you could find them and or win them, but they were all accessible at one point or another especially true in GT4. The hardest thing in GT games were and should always be the license tests as they should as they lay the foundation for what is about to come once you start really playing the game. GT4 did have a near impossible feat in mission 34 which you would win by luck sometimes as the AI sometimes screwed up, that sort of ridiculousness has no place in a game. If you polled GT gamers you would be surprised by the amount who prefers a fair game it can be hard but not mindbendingly so.

Until PD writes some AI that can drive the cars to their limits without having to overpower them in stats then we can be assured that you can beat the AI, without acquiring the skills of Aryton Senna. Don't be fooled, no game will accomodate everyone, take the good with the bad or just leave it alone. Fact of life nothing will be as you want it. Sooner you accept that, the better you will feel.

That "some people" you are referring to that like endless challenge will vary greatly even in the small number that exist. What is interesting is you find things like mission 34 hard but this isn't a realistic challenge. Want some real challenges, PD should make every race in GT6 at least 6 laps long with full damage on. Now that is a challenge which is focus and patience along with pacing. Can't really do that since some people don't have time for that. PD can easily just have a difficulty setting that includes AI that doesn't give you easy passes and always drives cars that are equal to your own and multiple lap races with full damage on. These are real challenges, not that silly one lap catch a car nonsense with invincible cars, that's not a challenge that's a lesson in failings of simulation since the only the only thing simulated is physics but everything else is off.

I love challenges but I prefer them to make sense and not be something ridiculous. Challenges that actually challenge you to focus, deal with anomalous happenings, make good judgement calls and drive prudently in order to secure the win....that is a challenge. PD adds that to the game then I'd be one happy camper since I can't tell you the last time I had a good race in GT5 unless it was arcade mode with sim on and wear on with weather random on street tires. Totally different game from that invincible GT Mode, unless it's endurance nothing of significance happens during the race, there is barely anything to think about aside from how many more laps until the finish. With GT6 having aerodynamics coming into play, this should make for even more of a challenge, now with full damage on you have no choice but to be prudent in over taking and being aware of other cars. No more bumper cars and no more slamming the AI for easy passes an all that crap. This stuff would make the game much more difficult for the common gamer, but it should be optional and not forced onto you. Forcing things does one of two things those who don't mind will continue, others will be turned off and not bother. Just hope PD just loses the stupid invincible car chase races and just uses the in game engine to make challenges. 10 lap race with full damage on with tenacious AI that would be more than enough challenge, and for those who want more up the laps or increase the AI tenacity.

No idea what PD will do, but I'm betting on the usual formula to be in order for GT6. At least I know that I can create my own online challenges and rules to make things good. Perhaps Arcade mode will have similar settings so I can once again do that, but for the main game I highly doubt PD will make it harder nor add ridiculous things like locked cars unlocked after completing some inane feat.

 

[niky]

Its not about proving your skill, its about proving that you invest time and effort and therefore are rewarded with things people who don't invest time and effort into the game will never have.

Couldn't be bothered with the driving missions in GT4, they just seemed like a waste of time to me.

See, this is a contradiction.

I personally invested "wasted" a hell of a lot of time finishing the missions in GT4. Because a good challenge should be its own reward.

But I don't want cars locked away behind a wall that I have to spend weeks or months chipping away through, just to get at them (or cars so damn expensive I have to spend weeks grinding races over and over just to buy them)... I want to be able to race series every weekend with a fair amount of difficulty, and I want to be able to purchase cars in-game for a reasonable amount of money.

Because a game is not an investment. A game is an expense. It's recreation. Achievements in a virtual-reality offline game are just that... virtual. They don't improve your life or contribute to your livelihood... not unless you're a GT Academy winner or a Cybergames level player. Whenever I see "investment" used to describe video games, I simply shake my head. Video games should not be so serious.

I'd agree to special livery being unlocked for finishing challenges. Special livery or cosmetic enhancements you can show off online. I will gladly congratulate people who achieve that.

But locking cars away from those of us who no longer have the time to grind away at a game twenty-four/seven as we did when we didn't have families, jobs and other hobbies? That's just cruel.

Gran Turismo, according to its creator, is meant to be an Encyclopædia of cars. It's a very poor Encyclopædia that requires you to solve increasingly difficult cryptograms every time you want to read a new page. Some of us play games to relax, and some of our marriages will not survive another grindcore experience like GT5's endurance race and price structure.

 

[Roflwaffle]

See, this is a contradiction.

I personally invested "wasted" a hell of a lot of time finishing the missions in GT4. Because a good challenge should be its own reward.

But I don't want cars locked away behind a wall that I have to spend weeks or months chipping away through, just to get at them (or cars so damn expensive I have to spend weeks grinding races over and over just to buy them)... I want to be able to race series every weekend with a fair amount of difficulty, and I want to be able to purchase cars in-game for a reasonable amount of money.

Because a game is not an investment. A game is an expense. It's recreation. Achievements in a virtual-reality offline game are just that... virtual. They don't improve your life or contribute to your livelihood... not unless you're a GT Academy winner or a Cybergames level player. Whenever I see "investment" used to describe video games, I simply shake my head. Video games should not be so serious.

I'd agree to special livery being unlocked for finishing challenges. Special livery or cosmetic enhancements you can show off online. I will gladly congratulate people who achieve that.

But locking cars away from those of us who no longer have the time to grind away at a game twenty-four/seven as we did when we didn't have families, jobs and other hobbies? That's just cruel.

Gran Turismo, according to its creator, is meant to be an Encyclopædia of cars. It's a very poor Encyclopædia that requires you to solve increasingly difficult cryptograms every time you want to read a new page. Some of us play games to relax, and some of our marriages will not survive another grindcore experience like GT5's endurance race and price structure.

Firstly its about whether you want to do it to get the prize for completing it. With championships where you unlock cars that aren't purchasable that adds an extra incentive to want to actually do it so you can earn a prize that you otherwise wouldn't get. With driving missions I viewed them as a waste of time because it seemed like a lot of effort for such a little reward and I didn't really care whether I had that reward or not unlike the championships. Also I tried a few of the driving missions and I didn't find them fun, I just found them tedious and frustrating so there was no reward of it being fun either. Also they don't take "weeks or months" to complete, just a few hours to complete. It worked with GT3 so it should work with GT6.

 

[niky]

If the challenge is not "Felipe Massa" level, then it will be tedious and frustrating for everyone but the aliens who make the finals of GT Academy.

It takes weeks. For people who cannot commit more than an hour a day (two is pushing it), high-level championships with thirty minute races take a week. Enduros take weeks. One hour of the Nurburgring each day means three weeks to finish the 24-hour enduro.

And let's not get started on GT5's silly "A-Spec" level and price structure, which meant hours of grinding to gain enough "experience" and "money" to buy certain levels of cars.

I tried to take it slow with GT5, but in the end, it took too much of my time because of event length, and I had to decide whether I wanted to keep my (two... three...) job(s) and continue speaking to my family or if I really needed to finish the game. I might still try, someday.

The Seasonals were a good break. Races you could challenge and finish within an hour, with a nice challenge (Schwimwagen, anyone?). But even if all "unlockings" were like that, still... no.

 

[Roflwaffle]

If the challenge is not "Felipe Massa" level, then it will be tedious and frustrating for everyone but the aliens who make the finals of GT Academy.

It takes weeks. For people who cannot commit more than an hour a day (two is pushing it), high-level championships with thirty minute races take a week. Enduros take weeks. One hour of the Nurburgring each day means three weeks to finish the 24-hour enduro.

And let's not get started on GT5's silly "A-Spec" level and price structure, which meant hours of grinding to gain enough "experience" and "money" to buy certain levels of cars.

I took my time with GT5, but in the end, it took too much of my time because of event length.

The Seasonals were a good break. Races you could challenge and finish within an hour, with a nice challenge (Schwimwagen, anyone?). But even if all "unlockings" were like that, still... no.

I'm not talking about the difficulty levels anyway I explained what I think they should do in a previous post. Also I never mentioned anything about endurance races.

 

[glassjaw]

Because a game is not an investment. A game is an expense. It's recreation. Achievements in a virtual-reality offline game are just that... virtual. They don't improve your life or contribute to your livelihood... not unless you're a GT Academy winner or a Cybergames level player. Whenever I see "investment" used to describe video games, I simply shake my head. Video games should not be so serious.

I'd agree to special livery being unlocked for finishing challenges. Special livery or cosmetic enhancements you can show off online. I will gladly congratulate people who achieve that.

But locking cars away from those of us who no longer have the time to grind away at a game twenty-four/seven as we did when we didn't have families, jobs and other hobbies? That's just cruel.

Who is to say what a video game should be? Don't mean to derail this thread, but at the end of the day it's the creators discretion how they want you to interact with their world. They can present a challenge, or not. They can dangle a car in front of you as a reward, or not. Some developers want their players to earn their way, others take a hands-off approach. We're all entitled to our opinions regarding the type of games we want to play, but it's a unfair to call it a grave injustice when a developer makes you give a little to get a little. They made the rules, and the challenge is persevering despite them. If you don't have the time or the energy to see that through, then maybe it just isn't for you.

And that last part isn't a personal dig, I don't mean it in a negative way. For example, a while back I had a year's subscription to iRacing. Between school and work I didn't have the time or motivation to devote hours nonstop to practice, qualifying, and racing every other day to work my way up the ranks. Obviously, for many people it's no trouble at all. Lots of them have the same obligations I do and are still able to practice on a regular basis and become very fast. But I couldn't make those compromises, or I didn't want to. I can't turn around and be angry, can I? So I stopped playing iRacing because the rules didn't work for me, and I found an alternative.

 

[jflomario]

Metal Gear on Extreme hard(not european version though), but certainly not Ninja Gaiden or Shinobi hard.