WRC 2011 Season

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Speedster502
On a final note, WRC has been a massive disappointment to me this year. I'm sure the battles have been close, and that it's been an improvement over previous years (from the brief glimpses I've seen). But it's been impossible to follow properly, the coverage has been utterly shocking.

For a so-called 'World Championship' you hardly hear anything of it. I really hope they get a better TV deal in the UK next year otherwise I can't see it getting anymore popular!
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Agreed. It's been an improvement on previous years from the bits I've seen, but I still think WRC needs a massive shake-up and the UK TV coverage needs to be drastically better.

I think it was about ten years ago that Digital Spectator was launched and ITV was covering every rally with an hour program each night after a day's rallying. With the mix of in-depth web-based coverage and the fantastic TV coverage I don't think it's been matched from a media coverage perspective. Unfortunately that didn't last long at all and it got shunted down the schedules, and today there's only token coverage after the rally is done on a few channels.
 
Greycap
The sad thing is that he's still had all of those paving his way, necessary or not. Ever since the Xsara WRC was introduced the Citroën has been nothing but the best car out there (making opponents weak), his team mates have been mostly tarmac specialists (making them weak) and whomever has been ahead of him in a Citroën with the title fight still open has been called to back off with very few exceptions.

It's all very Schumacher-esque, even though he's very good the achievements are tarnished by everybody seeing how they're really done. Without team orders he might have one or two titles less but those remaining titles would be far more credible.
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For the most part that is true, but we did have some reasonable comparisons when he was against Sainz, McRae, Gronholm, Solberg and Burns.

I think the lack of fight in the WRC the past few years has diluted Loeb's championships more than anything else. There are so many things wrong with the WRC right now, it could be so much better than it is. It needs to be making more TV deals like the UK Dave one which at least show some short highlights to build the interest and there needs to be some more convincing advances in bringing more competitive drivers and teams in. Mini and now VW are in too but I'm not sure the WRC as a whole looks particularly bright just yet.
 
Congrats to Sebastien:tup:! It's just unbelievable that he won his eighth consecutive title ! (I heard or read somewhere that this is a world record.)
 
Citroen have a press conference scheduled for tomorrow, its expected they will announce Ogier leaving (he's likely on his way to Ford) with Hirvonen joining Citroen.
 
I can't imagine that Hirvonen would want to go to Citroen, given that they wouldn't let Ogier fight Loeb for the title. If Ogier leaves, then I think the team would want someone they can develop over the next year or two, and then step up when Loeb finally retires. Maybe Ott Tanak or Mads Ostberg. Or even Dennis Kuipers.
 
prisonermonkeys
I can't imagine that Hirvonen would want to go to Citroen, given that they wouldn't let Ogier fight Loeb for the title. If Ogier leaves, then I think the team would want someone they can develop over the next year or two, and then step up when Loeb finally retires. Maybe Ott Tanak or Mads Ostberg. Or even Dennis Kuipers.
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I don't think Citroen have many options other than Hirvonen if Ogier and Loeb can't get on in the same team, Hirvonen won't be quick enough to take the number 1 from Loeb yet he has the consistancy to get the points for the team. The other options are unlikely; Tanak is talented but has some form of contract with M-Sport, Ostberg is talented and has no manufacture links but could do with another year in a team like Stobart, he hasn't done a full WRC season yet so needs experience and to show the Sweden and Wales performances over the season like Ogier did last year. I think Kuipers is back with FERM again next year (according to the wording of this), I'm not really sure he's a Citroen quality too, he's done a solid job on some rallies but Citroen need someone who is at least getting podiums if they're going to beat Ford (and maybe Mini) to the teams title.

Edit - Confirmed by Citroen on twitter https://twitter.com/#!/citroenracing/status/136812185342062593
 
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I can only speculate as to why Hirvonen moved to Citroen:

1) Citroen lost face when they kept blocking Ogier's title bid despite his ability to keep up with Loeb. Combined with the termination of Ogier's contract after only one year, this would have put them in a weakened position when it came time to pick up someone else. Hirvonen may have been able to get more power within the team - Citroen would support both equally until a certain point in the season (probably after halfway), in which case they will concentrate on one driver on the basis of his results.

2) Hirvonen may feel that the Citroen DS3 is more competitive than the Fiesta RS (it did, after all, win ten of the thirteen rallies this year), and feels that playing second fiddle to Loeb is an acceptable compromise for a more-competitive car.

3) Some of Malcolm Wilson's comments about Hirvonen's defection suggest that Ford is reevaluating its involvement in the WRC, and that Wilson will have to convince them that a factory team is worthwhile. If Ford pulls factory support in 2012 and the only Fiesta teams are privateer entires, Hirvonen may be moving early to secure a factory seat.

4) Some of Wilson's comments after Rally GB also suggest that Jari-Matti Latvala is ready for a World Championship bid. Hirvonen has been with the Ford factory team since 2006, and while he has come close to winning the title, he's never quite done it - he's had three second places, two thirds and a sixth. Wilson might think that the best way to beat Citroen is to play like Citroen and back one driver, and since Hirvonen has had his shot without delivering, maybe it's time for Latvala to have a chance. In this case, Hirvonen might feel like his position in the team is being marginalised, and defected to Citroen to make a statement.

I'm curious as to where Ogier is going to wind up in all of this. Ford is the obvious choice, but the John Cooper Works Mini has been very competitive in its development year, even with two inexperienced drivers. Ogier is the kind of driver that Mini might try and snare. I know that I'd certainly make him an offer if I was Dave Richards.
 
I have been following WRC closely this year but haven't posted in here about it, I was shocked to learn out about Ogier leaving Citroen and Hirvonen moving in, shocked but then not all that surprised after I thought about it.

It was clear to me Ogier wasn't all that happy all year when it was decided he had to play second fiddle to Loeb after Loeb was in the championship lead. Loeb had to road sweep all year, Ogier played Tactics the best he could and done very well but not quite a position to push agains't Loeb int he latter year and it was clear that Ogier hated that.

On the other hand Jari-Matti Latvala in a very sportmanship way did for Hirvonen with a smile on his face even when he was extremely stong in the second half of the season while Hirvonen was faultering. It was also clear Ford was very pleased with him and dissapointed with Hirvonen especially after the Wales event and I am not surprised that Jari got the no.1 position for next year (to my knowledge), assuming Ford doesn't pull out which I personally don't think so. I think Ott Tanak could slide in nicely behind Jari assuming his current contract allows that as a option.

The question is where will Ogier go? My bet is a new comer like Mini or VW, Mini has shown impressive pace straight from the get go and I think with a hot shot driver they can compete for the championship assuming the niggles of the car are ironed out now (engine mount issue, throttle issue etc). Ogier is just what they need.
 
I think Tanak will do at least one full season with M-Sport before getting a factory drive. If Ogier doesn't go to Ford, then I think Ford will probably take Petter Solberg.

As for road-sweeping; yes, it's a problem - but I'm pretty sure 2012 will see a solution. Shakedown will be treated as a "qualifying" event. The top ten drivers will be deicded by their times on the shakedown stage. The fastest driver will get to decide his road position, then the second and the third, all the way down to tenth, who gets whatever position is left over.
 
I just found out about this thread. Having watched and listening to all the highlight shows this year. The whole 2012 season is going to be great if the coverage is there. I know that I had to go to youtube to watch any of the review shows. The US hasnt had any meaningful coverage since before FOX bought Speedvision.

Here are my predictions on drivers for next year.
Citroen: loeb will be no.1 and mikko will play a consistent no.2. I think Loeb will be done rallying after 2012 and Citroen know it. Which would open the door for Tanak in 2013.
Ford: Jari-Matti and Ogier will probably be equals. Although, Latvala will be preceived as team leader.
Mini will probably have the same drivers and the best thing VW could do is sign Petter for 2012 to develop the team. VW would also be good to give Ostberg or even Matt Wilson a factory chance. The problem is that there are so many up and coming drivers that are really good and few seats for them to move to.
 
Everyone thinks highly of Tanak. I cant really think of anyone coming up through that Citroen would have a stake in. There is IRC, but Wilks isnt ready, I dont think. Neuville looks really good, but he really doesnt know any of the WRC stages. I have a feeling that Citroen might go after Haydon Paddon. He has no ties yet and has the potential of a World Rally Champion. Im sure that Citroen has someone in the French Rally Championship, but I dont follow national champioships.
 
prisonermonkeys
As for road-sweeping; yes, it's a problem - but I'm pretty sure 2012 will see a solution. Shakedown will be treated as a "qualifying" event. The top ten drivers will be deicded by their times on the shakedown stage. The fastest driver will get to decide his road position, then the second and the third, all the way down to tenth, who gets whatever position is left over.
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Yeah it should be good, just in time for Loeb as Jari and Ogier is hot on his heels when it comes to pace.

lilcat89
Here are my predictions on drivers for next year.
Citroen: loeb will be no.1 and mikko will play a consistent no.2. I think Loeb will be done rallying after 2012 and Citroen know it. Which would open the door for Tanak in 2013.
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Loeb recently signed a 2 year contract with Citroen so I am sure he will still be in it until the end of the 2013 season.

As for Citroen I think they are a but shocked by what happened with Ogier this season, I think they probably felt Ogier will continue from Loeb and his early season pace shows that could have been the case now as their new star is ready (after 6 years or so of development with Citroen), they lost him. They will be looking for a new future driver I am sure.
 
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lilcat, Ford got Tanak into a Stobart M-Sport for Wales, and he was running in the SWRC in a Fiesta S2000 prepared by Markko Martin, who has a close relationship with Ford despite having walked out on them. Mads Ostberg ran the Fiesta 2000 in 2010 and got promoted to the M-Sport squad for 2011, so I expect Tanak will follow the same path.

The problem is that there might be a limit on the number of cars a team can run. They had, at most, four cars this year, but not every driver ran in every event. I'm pretty sure Stobart's line-up next year will be Henning Solberg, Tanak, Ostberg and Matthew Wilson.

If Ford have any sense, they'd expand the Munchi's, FERM and Abu Dhabi teams to two-car operations. Run Solberg and Wilson in Stobart, Villagra and Tanak in Munchi's (with support from D-MACK), Kuipers and Ostberg in FERM, and Novikov and al-Qassimi in Abu Dhabi. That way, they can hang on to each of the promising drivers, and spread their resources out to run as many cars as possible. Most of these teams are already running cars prepared by Stobart M-Sport. It would also force Citroen to respond, because they only have five cars across four teams - Loeb/Hirvonen in the Total WRT, with Petter Solberg, Peter van Merksteijn and Kimi Raikkonen in private entries (and even then, they might be losing Raikkonen).
 
Jay
Loeb recently signed a 2 year contract with Citroen so I am sure he will still be in it until the end of the 2013 season.
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I am willing to bet that Loeb will opt out after 2012. He hates the smaller cars, and he is probably really bored. He wants to do Le Mans and sportscars. I just dont see him in WRC after 2012. Willing to bet also that a Peugeot factory sportscar drive was written into the contract also, seeing as Quesnel runs both programs.
 
The question for Ford is who they want most? Ogier or Tanak, they've been looking at Tanak as their next driver presumably in place of Hirvonen who was nothing special but consistant, now they've been given the chance to sign Ogier who is clearly ready to win races for Ford. That means Tanak could go to Team Abu Dhabi has a third works driver for Ford, Abu Dhabi would pay to have their team near the top of the pile and it gives Tanak a year of WRC experience before VW come in and take their picks.

Another Ford team that could expand is Monster Ford if Block can get the funding (for himself and another car), if they do get 2 the second will be driven by either Chris Atkinson, a friend of Ken's (Block was going to expand to 2 cars a few years ago for Atkinson to have a drive) or Hayden Paddon, another friend who helped Block this year in recce for one rally.

Volkswagen have a great choice of drivers available to them, they have their own talents like Juho Hanninen and Andreas Mikkelsen as well as a huge pot of money to poach anybody they want, which could be Latvala is Ford don't get their act together soon. Petter Solberg could do with a works drive but I'm not sure any of those teams would take him on, he hasn't exactly set the world on fire in the DS3 and without sponsorship he won't be around much longer, he could barely afford to finish this season.
 
GOTMAXPOWER
The question for Ford is who they want most? Ogier or Tanak, they've been looking at Tanak as their next driver presumably in place of Hirvonen who was nothing special but consistant, now they've been given the chance to sign Ogier who is clearly ready to win races for Ford. That means Tanak could go to Team Abu Dhabi has a third works driver for Ford, Abu Dhabi would pay to have their team near the top of the pile and it gives Tanak a year of WRC experience before VW come in and take their picks.
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They'll go with Ogier, if he's interested. Tanak hasn't had a full season in WRC-spec machinery - just one rally. Nor will they put him in Team Abu Dhabi; although it shares a livery with the Ford factory team, it is not a third works drive. It's for Khalid al-Qassimi. No, Ford will put Tanak in another satellite team, probably Stobart M-Sport. I'm guessing Stobart will run three cars next season, for Wilson, Ostberg and Tanak. I'd say Henning Solberg will wind up with his brother, and Petter Solberg WRT will become the secondary Citroen team. They'll be works-suuported, but not a full works team.
 
prisonermonkeys
They'll go with Ogier, if he's interested. Tanak hasn't had a full season in WRC-spec machinery - just one rally. Nor will they put him in Team Abu Dhabi; although it shares a livery with the Ford factory team, it is not a third works drive. It's for Khalid al-Qassimi. No, Ford will put Tanak in another satellite team, probably Stobart M-Sport. I'm guessing Stobart will run three cars next season, for Wilson, Ostberg and Tanak. I'd say Henning Solberg will wind up with his brother, and Petter Solberg WRT will become the secondary Citroen team. They'll be works-suuported, but not a full works team.
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When Novikov got to drive Al-Quassimi's car they were reffering to it as a 3rd factory ford, they were the same team as the main Ford team last year but broke of for team points, I still think they're closer than the other satelite teams. Henning will stay with Stobart I guess, it seems they'll run anyone who can afford it and he has some sponsors paying his way, however he has drove for PSWRT before, in last years Monte Carlo they ran his 207. Hopefully Ostberg can find the money to stay in Stobart next year, it was touch and go towards the end of the season.
 
GOTMAXPOWER
When Novikov got to drive Al-Quassimi's car they were reffering to it as a 3rd factory ford, they were the same team as the main Ford team last year but broke of for team points, I still think they're closer than the other satelite teams.
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They run cars prepared by M-Sport, and they are registered as a separate entry to the Ford World Rally Team. At most, they are probably a link between M-Sport and the Ford WRT, but they are certainly not a factory entry - factory teams can only run two cars.
 
I'm sure I heard somewhere that VW were interested in Ogier and wanted to move him to S-WRC for next year (whilst they develop the car) and then bring him back to WRC for 2013 in the VW. I can't remember where I read this though, so I can't provide a source unfortunately.

Certainly would be interesting if it is true. But I'm not sure how keen Ogier would be to essentially back out of WRC for a year.
 
Maybe he can go back to being a ski instructor (according to VW's press release, that's his job). He'll no doubt spend most of 2012 developing the car, probably with a few national-level trial events. So he won't be sitting on his backside for a year.
 
Speedster502
I'm sure I heard somewhere that VW were interested in Ogier and wanted to move him to S-WRC for next year (whilst they develop the car) and then bring him back to WRC for 2013 in the VW. I can't remember where I read this though, so I can't provide a source unfortunately.

Certainly would be interesting if it is true. But I'm not sure how keen Ogier would be to essentially back out of WRC for a year.
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prisonermonkeys
The plot thickens - Ogier joins Volkswagen:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96401
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Like I suggested. :)
 

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