- 87,572
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Wrong and freaky? Yes. Worth a criminal prosecution?
- Thread starter Famine
- 124 comments
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- 24,002
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
I wasn't, if that's what you have responded too, refering to a father-son relationship, i was refering to the potential offspring of the featured 'couple' having a brother that he also calls 'dad'.
FUN FACT
Incest - it's relatively enjoyable
FUN FACT
Incest - it's relatively enjoyable
- 29,371
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
You could argue that outlawing incest outright brings clarity to an otherwise gray area.Famine
- 3,547
- Melbourne
- GTPr01 (GT); TheGTAFather (GTA)
By law, since they both are related, the act committed (by the mother) is illegal and punishable by imprisonment. However, the costs and the time spent resolving this matter could be better spent. The charge(s) should be dropped in my opinion. Although it seems that this case could set an interesting precedent...
- 24,127
- Scarfolk
- Grim10
- Are you kidding?
It's by no means comprehensive, and "correct" is subjective. But by and large, the law is accepted as just that, the guidelines of moral right and wrong by general concensus. If a law is unjust, then it's not often one that sticks around for very long. Public pressure can often take away or implement laws (for example, the one following the death of Sarah Payne).
The law seperates out what should and should not be done, more often than not to protect one or more persons. Emotional damage has an arguably worse effect than physical damage.
I can accept that perhaps it wasn't intended, but it happened and that's something they'll have to live with.
- 1,572
- Famine's house.
- Milford_Cubicle
In the UK cousins are allowed to have relationships and marry, same as step brothers and sisters.
The cousin thing is a bit weird, as they are related by blood but I suppose it's far enough removed for it to be only a bit weird...
However. Nothing can excuse a mother having sex with her son. It is sick and wrong and she absolutely should be put away for it. Not sent to prison but sent to a secure mental unit as there's obviously something seriously wrong up there
The cousin thing is a bit weird, as they are related by blood but I suppose it's far enough removed for it to be only a bit weird...
However. Nothing can excuse a mother having sex with her son. It is sick and wrong and she absolutely should be put away for it. Not sent to prison but sent to a secure mental unit as there's obviously something seriously wrong up there
- 87,572
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Though it is somewhat packed with grey (shame on you!) areas itself. Defining incest would lead almost anyone to say "sexual relations" (how pithy). But how do we define relations?
UK incest laws define relatives as parents and children and people with any one common biological parent.
So why do we have incest laws? Is it to preserve "the family"?
Someone I know was adopted - with his eldest sister - into a family with one biological daughter already. This child (who we shall call "A") can quite legally have sex with his sister (who we shall call "B") but not his other sister (who we shall call "C") - and the two sisters can engage similarly (incidentally, I'm not aware of any laws against lesbian incest).
So it's not to preserve "the family", since they can still have sex with each other...
Is it to preserve the gene pool? Well... I'm not one to trip over Godwin's Law, but we all know what happened the last time someone went all legal to preserve the gene pool...
I'm left to wonder why we have incest laws at all. Children (small ones) are protected from sexual advances by parents by consent laws and from sexual advances by each other by parents (and child abuse laws). Why is it that we feel the need to have a law which says "Adult 1 may not have sex with Adult 2"?
Danachronism
I'll point you to danoff's signature at this juncture...
Milford Cubicle
But they're both such lookers...
- 1,202
Famine, I'm with your above post. It was an act between two consenting adults, and while it was illegal, I think prosecuting is a waste of time. It's wierd and taboo, but, you know what? They wanted to do it, they didn't hurt anyone except some sibling's feelings (perhaps they were jealous for being left out... incest is a game the whole family can play) and prosecuting is not going to stop consenting related adults from doing the wild thing if that's what they really want to do. I tend to think that people should be left free to do what they want without judgment, as long as they're not hurting someone else. Offending someone's morals doesn't count. We all have different standards.
What bothers me is that it was relatives that reported them in the first place! Hell, if my brother robbed banks at gunpoint, or wandered around at night slashing random people in parks or something, then I can see an argument for grassing him up. But if he was horny and fancied my mother? It would freak me out, but there's no way I'd get either of them sent to prison for it.
What bothers me is that it was relatives that reported them in the first place! Hell, if my brother robbed banks at gunpoint, or wandered around at night slashing random people in parks or something, then I can see an argument for grassing him up. But if he was horny and fancied my mother? It would freak me out, but there's no way I'd get either of them sent to prison for it.
- 29,371
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
Hence why the reasons for the illegality of incest are not (and probably should not) be based on biological/scientific arguments (and I don't think they are)... or even religious arguments. Indeed, the human race would probably not even exist had it not been for incest - the Bible even acknowledges it, and (with extreme irony) Creation Theory as held so dear by those bastions of moral behaviour, Answers In Genesis, would not even be possible without it. Go figure, Ken Ham...
You're right to suggest that 'being the law doesn't make it right' or even explain what's wrong with incest... however, I reckon the real reasons that incest is illegal between adults is a mixture of sociological reasons, including but not limited to the psychological impact it has on those directly and indirectly involved and the potential for abuse of familial power in terms of sexual coercion (in any form). Unfortunately, there is a sliding scale from 'downright wrong' to 'I don't see anything wrong with it' (i.e. a father sleeping with his mentally-retarded daughter to a long-lost half-sibling sleeping with a consenting half-sibling)... the real problem lies is that the definition of family is not black and white, however the law has to apply to the whole continuum of possibilities in order to protect the vulnerable.
Pako
Staff Emeritus
- 16,453
- NW Montana
- GTP-Pako
- GTP Pako
He was her child though. Maybe the reporters should have asked what movie they were watching that would cause a panic attack, or better yet, that would lead cuddles to puddles.
Personally I think it's sick and wrong. She took advantage of the situation and as a mother of this child, should have stopped any advances made by her son (if they were originated from him). If laws are in place to keep people from doing sick and wrong things, they so be it....jail time.
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Pako
Staff Emeritus
- 16,453
- NW Montana
- GTP-Pako
- GTP Pako
Famine,
If you're going to starting flooding the forums with all these duplicate threads, we'll have to put the smack down on ya. Please be sure to use the 'Search' feature built into this site before you post. In all likelihood, it's already been posted before.
- 24,002
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
And he started the original thread too 
- linking the story to the same Sun article. He is either really interested in incest or senility is setting in now he's reached 30.
- linking the story to the same Sun article. He is either really interested in incest or senility is setting in now he's reached 30.
- 1,572
- Famine's house.
- Milford_Cubicle
I'd go with the senility idea, i'm trying to get him an appointment to have his grey matter checked
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
18 isn't the only issue here.
First comes the issue of true consent... Fact is, a Son sleeping with his Mum might not be capable of consent due to the extreme nature of the relationship (similar to say, a mentally handicapped person becoming involved with a person of average IQ). (although the situation isn't quite that)
None the less, it is very possible that this new adult may not be capable of making reasonable decisions when in the midst of a panic attack he is sexually propositioned by his mother.
Further, the law probably plays a role in this as well. I'm guessing (although I'm pretty much sure) that laws against incest existed long before these two decided to attempt having a mutant offspring.
Fact is, if there were any laws in place that these two broke, the case is pretty cut and dry.
You just can't have incestual relations.
Good, bad, or otherwise, that's the law.
Also, I say shame on this Mum for taking advantage of her child while he was in the midst of a panic attack.
What a horribly perverse world we live in.
First comes the issue of true consent... Fact is, a Son sleeping with his Mum might not be capable of consent due to the extreme nature of the relationship (similar to say, a mentally handicapped person becoming involved with a person of average IQ). (although the situation isn't quite that)
None the less, it is very possible that this new adult may not be capable of making reasonable decisions when in the midst of a panic attack he is sexually propositioned by his mother.
Further, the law probably plays a role in this as well. I'm guessing (although I'm pretty much sure) that laws against incest existed long before these two decided to attempt having a mutant offspring.
Fact is, if there were any laws in place that these two broke, the case is pretty cut and dry.
You just can't have incestual relations.
Good, bad, or otherwise, that's the law.
Also, I say shame on this Mum for taking advantage of her child while he was in the midst of a panic attack.
What a horribly perverse world we live in.
Danoff
Premium
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- Mile High City
Kent
Ok, that's really not what this is about. This is about discussing the situation and figuring out whether the law is messed up - not simply interpreting the law and closing the book. If we wanted that, we'd ask a lawyer or go to the findlaw website. The law is not always right, and that's part of the reason we have these discussions.
Danachronism
Your family members have no right to not be affected by your actions.
As Famine said, please see my signature.
Danachronism
The question is "why" do you think the law should be as it is? Who has been hurt and how?
These two people were consenting adults and should be treated as such. I see no reason to prevent any two consenting adults from engaging in consensual sex. Their children/siblings have no rights over their sex life.
- 5,077
- Panama City, FL
If it's illegal under the law as currently understood, then it should be prosecuted. If the law is wrong, there are processes to correct that, but this doesn't fall under civil disobedience, I don't think.
So if they're both adults, and it was consentual (although illegal) why is it just the mom being prosecuted?
So if they're both adults, and it was consentual (although illegal) why is it just the mom being prosecuted?
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
So are you saying the law is wrong to prohibit sexual relations between Mother and Child? (or for that matter, most incestuous relations)
If that's what you're saying then I disagree.
See, although you only quoted two lines of text, there is a post surrounding that which lays out my opinion that incest is wrong for both biological and psycological reasons.
When I reffered to the "mutant offspring" it was a casual way of saying that incest does not yeild healthy children as commonly as "normal" relations.
Also, when I stress how this mother ended up having sex with her son after caring for him in the midst of a panic attack it was a way of saying the son might not be as mentally fit as he normally could be (especially when dealing with a subject as perverse as incest with his mother).
Basically, I believe they both need to be censured by the courts and both need to be treated by some sort of certified doctor of mental health.
I believe the only value to the son's being 18 is that his mother will not be charged with the sexual abuse of a minor.
Also, I just want to mention...
What happens when the shoe is on the other foot?
Would this sort of thing be tolerated if it was a father molesting his 18y/o daughter? I'm sure you guys wouldn't change your opinions too much at all but in the real world I'm sure the reaction of the general public would be to string him up by the you know whats.
Last thing...
Do you all think this was the first time this occured between the mother and son or do you think this is just the first time they were caught?
Personally, I can't imagine this being the first time but who knows, maybe it was!?
Btw, I think Famine has an excellent point about the position of trust... Heck, ethically speaking it isn't acceptable for a psychologist to have relations with a patient, wouldn't this be much worse than that? (although that is not legal, it is a good starting place when considering the manipulation and mental state of the 18y/o involved).
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