WRS Pit Stop - Chit Chat thread.

[Kent]

I didn't say anything wrong about the use of the word "luge."

On a totally different note (because I'm not going to discuss the semantics of all that here).

I've been looking around at records boards for a good while now.
It seems to me GT4 is just still far from fully discovered.

Almost every time a group like the WRS spends the time of a full race working on one lap there is a new pecking order to the car list in GT4.

The DB9 will certainly re-establish the higher ranking sports cars to some extent (atleast until the Z06 gets some use ).

I'm looking forward to seeing what we all think 2 years from now. However, would you all car to talk about this a bit?

Maybe just give me an example of where you see something similar?

Cool.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Id like to wish Holl01 a happy 21st!! 👍

Happy B-day mate 👍

Though your day is nearly over!! (11pm his time).

How was your day?, your probably out parting now! 👍

 

[holl01]

hehehe, yeah i had a great day with family and friends, thanx again mate.

 

[Kent]

21st b-day huh?

Not really the big event people make it out to be unless you're with a group of party animal friends... Then it becomes a mind-eraser of legendary status!

My 21st wasn't too special for the booze since I've worn a beard since I was about 19 or 20 (which means the USA's 21 y/o age limit on alcohol wasn't as important).

However, for most people the 21st is your first chance to really party like an adult.

I hope you enjoyed it holl01... and I mean that in a greater sense than putting down a great sub-5 minute lap at the ring!

Whatever the case was, Happy be-lated Birthday!

 

[Kolyana]

I have a GT4 Physics question:

Why, when you drop two wheels on the grass, does the vehicle have a tendency to veer sharply in the opposite direction? That is, if you drop the left wheels on the grass, the car/truck tends to swing violently to the right immediately.

I would ahve thought that the loss of traction on the left side would cause it to swing left, but it's almost like the car grabs a sudden surge of traction and loses it on the right.

What's going on here?

 

[Kent]

Well, I don't have a degree on the subject.

However, I'm always happy to throw my opinion into the mix.

Basically the way I see it...

When you set 2 wheels in the grass, those wheels lose their traction.

The wheels on the road keep their traction.

When that happens, it's the same as saying the wheels off the track have less friction working against them (since there is no grip).

When the wheels on the track still have that grip/ friction, the grip will actually pull those wheels in a direction that feels like back and in towards the track.

It's just a matter of friction and grip slowing down those tires and because of that, the off-track wheels will move forward faster and cause the car to accelerate forward at an un-even rate.

That un-even rate of acceleration causes the car to veer towards the slower side (being the on-track side).

If it helps, you might also be able to compare this to a jet with 2 engines that are side by side (like an F14 or F15).

When the left side dies, the right side will push forward and without the balance of the left engine it will cause the plane to turn towards the left.

Or another way to look at it is to think of tank treads.

When a tank turns it mearly stops moving one side of the treads forward while the other side's tread continues to push.

If the left tread stop and the right keeps pushing the tank turns to the left.

Finally, in a last attempt to get the idea across...

Think of it like there are two cords attached to the back of the car.

When one side pulls the car and the other doesn't, the car will turn towards the side where the cord is being pulled.

If none of that makes sense then I hope someone else can explain it more appropriately.

If it does make sense then I hope I've helped.

Edit:
I've just thought about this some more and realized that what you are doing with the wheels at the time of the off is also majorly important.
Using the gas or brakes, turning or headed straight... All of that is gonna come into play.

Hard for me to say what I think of the whole thing now.
Should probably delete my comments from earlier but I will leave them up so you all can look over my thought process and judge for yourselves.

Later.

 

[Kolyana]

I guess I thought that the left (off side and on grass) wheels would lose grip and therefore 'go backwards', whiel what you're saying is that they actually will shoot forwards, almost like skidding.

I guess this goes against the way my brain works, but it makes sense 👍

 

[Tyre King]

To a certain degree Kent's right, and at the same time, not so much.

If you put both left wheels on the grass whilst braking, which let's face it is what we are doing when cutting a corner into a chicane for example, the car WILL veer to the right. This is because, as Kent says, of the lack of grip to the left wheels.

I.E. the right wheels have greater grip than the left, so the brakes will be more effective and the car veers to the right.

The same occurs if you are coasting AND turning right, more grip on the right,less on the left, car veers right.........usually into a spin as the fronts move onto the tarmac and increase the differential between front grip and rear grip. See the 130r corner at Suzuka (yes I know it's a left turn, but the principle is the same)

How many times did we lose the car as the right wheels hit the grass on the right?

If you are powering around the corner, the additional force applied to the drive wheel/s reduces the grip of that tyre even further by a proportional amount dependant upon the throttle input. (see Suzuka comment above)

The idea that the wheels are being 'slowed down' by fricton, though correct to a point (as any machine/vehicle is subject to friction between it's componants),it is not the major force involved.

It's ALL about grip/traction between the tyre and the surface it's in contact with (which, I suppose, could be described as a 'function' of friction). The wheels would not be 'slowed-down' by the tarmac more than the grass, it's the fact that the wheels on the grass have less grip therefor slide over the surface more than grip the surface when a force (either accel,brake and or turning) is applied.

Think of it more from the perspective of the ability of the tyres to apply a force to the surface it's running on, and less from the surface effecting the tyres and it will become clearer, hopefully.

The twin engined plane analogy, though correct isn't really compatable with the question in hand, sorry Kent.

If the left engine dies, then the plane would veer left as you said, but, in this case it's not a question of grip or friction, this is ALL about thrust and Newton's laws of physics, equal and opposite reactions etc.
The plane moves forward because of the opposite reaction to the hot gasses being forced out of the rear of the engine, lose one side and the plane tries to spin like a catherin wheel around the C.O.G. only the vertical control surfaces (rudders) resist the spin.



Neil

 

[Kolyana]

Byt what I'm noticing is sometimes I'm on a STRAIGHT, perhaps come out of a coner wide, or lose concentration, drop two wheels onto the grass and then suddenly and violently veer right (it being the left wheels in this instance). I can pretty much bank on it in 9 times out of 10 and 9 cars out of 10 ... I very raely (if ever) hit the brakes in these instances, so what force could the accelerator induce through wheels on grass that would cause this?

 

[Tyre King]

It's still caused by a lack of traction, remember that the diff works by allowing the driven wheels to rotate at different speeds. And even in arcade mode, there is still a diff fitted to the car( The upgraded diffs are limited slip versions that don't react to these conditions quite as badly)

Therefor if the rear right loses grip and the diff lets it spin-up, then the left rear is suddenly going to suffer a loss of power, and the car will react accordingly as if you had applied the handbrake lightly with a grip/traction differential between the two sides.

BTW Chuck, I think we all suffer this problem, slight application of counter-steer works but it is hard to judge as most of the higher powered cars will react to the counter-steer in a way that is even more difficult to handle

Point of the exercise is.......keep off the grass on the straights!

Neil

 

[Kent]

No need to be sorry about that.

However, just for the record.

I understand the difference between the way a car accelerates and the way a plane accelerates.

The comparison was not meant to use the actual means of acceleration as the base.

Rather, the comparison was relative to the idea of an object being propelled by two side-by-side objects and what occurs when one of those objects stops accelerating the object in question (enough objects in that for everyone?).

Anyway,
later.

 

[Kolyana]

It's still caused by a lack of traction, remember that the diff works by allowing the driven wheels to rotate at different speeds. And even in arcade mode, there is still a diff fitted to the car( The upgraded diffs are limited slip versions that don't react to these conditions quite as badly)

Therefor if the rear right loses grip and the diff lets it spin-up, then the left rear is suddenly going to suffer a loss of power, and the car will react accordingly as if you had applied the handbrake lightly with a grip/traction differential between the two sides.

BTW Chuck, I think we all suffer this problem, slight application of counter-steer works but it is hard to judge as most of the higher powered cars will react to the counter-steer in a way that is even more difficult to handle

Point of the exercise is.......keep off the grass on the straights!

Neil

Ah, that makes sense and would also explain why some cars do it and others less so or not at all ... my Camaro Z28 in the Muscle Car Competition was really bad for it ... *after* I fitted an LSD.

Okay, yeah, I can picture that now 👍

 

[Tyre King]

Rather, the comparison was relative to the idea of an object being propelled by two side-by-side objects and what occurs when one of those objects stops accelerating the object in question (enough objects in that for everyone?).

Anyway,
later.

The object of this is to say quite objectively, yes!



Neil

 

[MinorShunt]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY CYRIL!!!!!!!

Best wishes! I hope you had a GREAT day!

 

[bleurabbit7]

Oh Crap!!!!!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY CYRIL!!!!

I'm sorry, I forgot that you said your birthday was a day before mine.

 

[fasj6418]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY CYRIL!!!!!!!

Best wishes! I hope you had a GREAT day!

yes, happy birthday and also congrats for making such a top job here in WRS...

so week 35 will be a gift for you? 💡

anyway, enjoy 👍

 

[fasj6418]

Oh Crap!!!!!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY CYRIL!!!!

I'm sorry, I forgot that you said your birthday was a day before mine.

happy birthday for bleurabbit7 too!

lots of b-days here in WRS...

i think i know what cyril can give you as a present... 💡

promotion maybe?

 

[Small_Fryz]

Happy Birthday Cyril 👍

Have a great one mate

 

[KLR142]

This week's race is SOOOOOO AWESOME! If you have an hour, I highly suggest sitting down and doing it. You should already have at least the R32, and it is competitive, as well as the TT and the A3, so hop in it and have a few laps!

If you don't, you better either have a REALLY good excuse, or you SUCK!

(just trying to get some more people in there... lol, hopefully no hard feelings I just feel wierd sitting at the top after one session when I know there's more in it that other people should be easily able to get)

It's not like it's a hard track either... And it's SO SHORT that you can just keep looping around it. No need to restart. GO AT IT! Please?

 

[Casio]

Ok everyone, I'm very excited today. Someone of you guys may of seen that I'm in the market for a new car. Well, I get it today!

I'll post some pictures when I gone and got it. I love his car....I don't think I'll ever sell it...

 

[MisterWeary]

Ok everyone, I'm very excited today. Someone of you guys may of seen that I'm in the market for a new car. Well, I get it today!

I'll post some pictures when I gone and got it. I love his car....I don't think I'll ever sell it...

What ya gettin?

 

[GTrackd02]

you dont need a new car, come to the U.S. and buy mine

 

[Casio]

you dont need a new car, come to the U.S. and buy mine

If your car is a '02 Mustang, I somehow doubt my parents will give any more money!

What ya gettin?

It's a 1996 Seat Cordoba (Seriously!), one of the reasons that I got it was because I wanted an unusual car, and you don't see many Seats on Australian roads!. Aparently it's pretty much a VW Golf (It has got a VW badged engine). The only thing wrong with it is that the sunroof doesn't open, but the rest of the electrics work, so I'm thinking it might just be a fuse.

But what did confuse me was the radio controls, they are all must be in Spanish or German or something! It took me ages to work out how to change from AM to FM, because I wasn't pushing the button with the big 'W' on it. So if anybody knows how to translate my radio...

 

[Tedehur]

Seat is a spanish maker that was bought by VW, and which has a 'sport' image here in Europe. So it's basically a VW, like Skodas and Audis are.

As for the radios, post the things you would like translated here, we're people from all around the world here so someone will be able to translate. (Or someone might even have the same Seat radio as yours )

 

[GTrackd02]

SO , I need to get my replay up.... will this work?
Max drive....
I searched and dont have time to look through all 500 milion results...
http://us.codejunkies.com/shop/product.asp?c=US&cr=USD&cs=$&r=0&l=1&ProdID=282

 

[Casio]

As for the radios, post the things you would like translated here, we're people from all around the world here so someone will be able to translate. (Or someone might even have the same Seat radio as yours )

Ok here it is fellas.

ML - Seems to make the Band change between multiple AM Bands, or something. But I can only pick up signal on one of the two MLs. As the other seems to make the frequency go down to 213.

U - Changes from FM to AM and back. 👍
AS - Changes from Mono to Stereo 👍
DX - I think is the channel search?
RDS - The screen says 'Searching' and the radio goes off, but it stays on searching, doing nothing and I have to press DX followed by U to get the radio back on...wth...
TP - Seems to do nothing, I keep pressing it, nothing. It's annoying me, because it looks like it could do something really cool

I looked in the Manual that I found in the 'Seat Servicio' and they have completely left out anything to do with the radio, all it says is how to replace the stereo...

So if anyone knows what those letters mean, or what those mystery buttons do. I'd be forever in your debt.

Just a few more pics...I swear it was blue when I brought it....


EDIT: Just found another book, in Spanish, which as far as I could tell, lists every single Car Dealer in the whole of Europe, and it's got a road map of Europe in the back, that's sure to come in handy down under!

 

[Smallhorses]

Do SEAT (Should be in capitals since it's an acronym) sell a lot of cars in Australia, or is that a right hand drive import from UK?

You'll find some info on RDS here, and TP is related. See the Glossary of Terms in the Forum. I'm not sure if this system is unique to Britain (which is why I thought your SEAT may be from UK), or is spread throughout Europe too. I'm not sure it'll work in Australia though.

The rest of the buttons are a mystery to me, but so are most radio buttons!
Find one of the Spanish guys around the forums and see what they can come up with.

My best advice, is not to listen to the radio! In all the cars I've ever owned, I make sure there's either a CD player installed when I buy it or I install one a.s.a.p.! I love music while I drive, but I hate the radio
I've even been known to take back rental cars that don't have a CD player before now, and demand one with CD player installed! I think my AVIS and HERTZ profiles now specify not to give me a vehicle without a CD player!

 

[VTRacing]

RDS is not very prevalent here in Australia. Very few broadcasters use it. The only two that I know of (at least here in Brisbane) are Triple J and Nova.

So if you have an RDS capable radio, and you tune in to Triple J you'll see TRIPLE J shown on the display. Generally I disable RDS when I'm trying to listen to those stations because as you get further away from the transmitters (there's a lot of open space in Australia) the radio tends to go haywire.

 

[Casio]

Do SEAT (Should be in capitals since it's an acronym) sell a lot of cars in Australia, or is that a right hand drive import from UK?

They actually arn't here anymore. They were only here from 95-99 so seeing a SEAT driving around is pretty rare.

So pretty much, since I'm not in Europe, all that RDS and TP stuff is useless?

I do actually have a Sony CD-Head unit laying around here somewhere, I just have to get around to finding someone to install it.

 

[Tedehur]

SO , I need to get my replay up.... will this work?
Max drive....
I searched and dont have time to look through all 500 milion results...
http://us.codejunkies.com/shop/product.asp?c=US&cr=USD&cs=$&r=0&l=1&ProdID=282

That's the best one as far as performance/price is concerned.
You plug the stick, insert the included CD in the PS2, and choose the replays/gamesaves to transfer.
Then you plug the stick on your PC, cut and paster the .max file (and rename it) and then upload it in your post.
The only tough part is to know which replay you need to transfer.

This kind of device is worth anyway since you can save anything (I have about 30Mb of gamesaves on my PC)
Keep me informed if you order it and your time won't be 'unofficialized' next week.