Your faith in Gran Turismo - has it been permanently damaged?

[nightmare1993]

Not really relevant. When you buy a house (or anything) you expect to get what you paid for, it's that simple. What you do afterwards to it is up to you, but if you buy a house on the advertisement of it having all mod-cons, connected water/gas, internet connection or whatever, that is what you expect to receive.

In terms of Gran Turismo, we were promised the "most complete GT game to date". We were promised a return to the quality and quantity of the old games.

We were never once promised a work-in-progress. We were not sold a game as a service. We were not told the game would take months to finish.

Nothing wrong with PD improving the game even further beyond what was initially promised, but that's not the case here. They're just adding the rest of the game they sold us on.

Thats the best comment in the whole tread.

 

[Kazuya720]

that is what you expect to receive.

Ok look, I am going to (hopefully) build our house. I don't want to go into details, however, at the end when you make the contract with the general company who is "promising" to build your house, you get in Germany something that call a "Zielleistungsvereinbarung" meaing a "target performance agreement". In this are all accomplishments listed (floor made in that and that quality by that amount, how many doors in which quality, all points very detailed). Now here comes the catch: All kind of things which are NOT on the list, won't be done, even if they are absolutely necessary! You might say than to the generall company "Hey.. I was expecting this and that, but you didn't made it, it is half made" "Sorry Sir, I just made what I promised, not what you might expect!

Same with GT 7 I really don't want to play the attorney for PD or Kaz, but I hate this childish moaning, where facts just turned as people like to twist it for their interest, even if its not true. Are we men or boys??

In terms of Gran Turismo, we were promised the "most complete GT game to date". We were promised a return to the quality and quantity of the old games.

Yes... prove that this is NOT the case! It's like complaining to a detergent manufacturer that their detergent just doesn't get the whitest white out of your white shirts. Yes... its marketing BS talk... ok... you fell for a pure advertising promise. Sorry for you. Who in the world could you ever prove "oh yes... this is the most complete GT game to date, because... ahhh..." You can not prove it!! This is a purely subjective impression. You can count tracks and cars, but does this determine that question?? I don't think so.

We were never once promised a work-in-progress. We were not sold a game as a service. We were not told the game would take months to finish.

What is work in progress in GT7??? Ok, the economics with car-pricetags and winning money-prizes is bad, but it is something you can prove by numbers. (How long do you have to drive for a 10 mio car e.g. => is this fair?) GT7 is complete. All what comes now is a free (as long it is not a DLC) content add on. Maybe your subjective (and some other) expectations are not fullfilled, but complaining about this is just tearful. And basically.. you are free to sell it and play ... Tic-Tac-Toe instead

You may want to check how much GTS sold at retail for when it launched....

I think however the point is that for full RRP people expect a complete AAA title from a first party studio, and what we were delivered doesn't hit that mark.

Yeees... an GTS had a world map, a used dealer, a tuning section, a carrer (menues) mode, decals for helmets and all the other stuff, which was at the release NOT included!

Besides.. whar are "full RRP people" ??

 

[Silver Arrows]

No, he's right. 30fps is totally unacceptable for a driving game. It should have gotten a Pro version but it didn't so it was basically unplayable.

Gee, I wonder then how people enjoyed 90% of racing games before the last generation.

Then again, this nugget of wisdom coming from a guy who had shown to him that GT's 5 and 6 were unstable messes in the framerate department, and soundly ignored acknowledging it, I'm not surprised you're going hard to be noticed by Kaz senpai.

That wasnt meant to be an attack, its a well known fact that many kids play videogames. Those kids have certain opinions, and funnily enough those can influence adults sometimes

This is rich coming from a guy who goes into an absolute fit every time his absolutely useless, hilariously wrong points are pushed on in any way.

 

[Scaff]

Are we men or boys??

We can do without the passive aggressive insults. Not a request by the way!

Yeees... an GTS had a world map, a used dealer, a tuning section, a carrer (menues) mode, decals for helmets and all the other stuff, which was at the release NOT included!

That irrelevant to the claim you made.

Yes... prove that this is NOT the case! It's like complaining to a detergent manufacturer that their detergent just doesn't get the whitest white out of your white shirts. Yes... its marketing BS talk... ok... you fell for a pure advertising promise. Sorry for you. Who in the world could you ever prove "oh yes... this is the most complete GT game to date, because... ahhh..." You can not prove it!! This is a purely subjective impression. You can count tracks and cars, but does this determine that question?? I don't think so.

Actually German consumer law does cover the mis-selling of goods and deceptive practices used in advertising, in fact almost all European countries do, including the UK

"The goods must be defective. Goods are defective if:
The seller, the manufacturer, or their assistants make representations about the qualities of the goods, especially in advertising or sales negotiations, and the goods do not have these qualities. The advertising does not have to have taken place in Germany. It can have taken place outside of Germany as well. However, goods will only be deemed defective if the seller knew or had to have known of the representations or if the representations were capable of influencing the buyer’s decision to purchase the goods."

Deceptive marketing claims are a valid reason for complaint, the false claims at launch of being able to sell cars, along with the miss-representation of MTXs prior to launch (but during the pre-order period) are more than enough to classify GT7 as 'faulty' by the above definition.

Besides.. whar are "full RRP people" ??

RRP = Recommended Retail Price.

So if PD sell this at full price, which they certainly did, it's not odd at all for people to complain about what they received. which is exactly why GTS got the pass that it did from many people, because it wasn't a full RRP title, and as such it lowered the consumer expectation.

 

[Silver Arrows]

We can do without the passive aggressive insults. Not a request by the way!

Maybe he's just a Devo fan. /s

 

[STINGer71]

"Here's my question for the GTPlanet community, does GT7 represent the end of the road for you? If not, how badly has your faith been shaken in the franchise and do you trust PD to restore the series to its former glories?"

No, why would be? This is nothing new, I am with GT series from day one and since GT5 with all delays and waiting for patches, upgradea and new content is the same situation all this years.
I am just disappointed how after all this years and same problems with GT5 and 6 and Sport they are not learning anything and they managed to put self in this situation they're in today. FFS, I don't believe that there is no one there to tell Kaz and Sony, look, this **** is not going to work in this genre and with this type of players. This is not some football game or GTA, Gran Turismo players is different kind of animal 🤦🏻‍♂️

 

[Kazuya720]

Ok I guess we lose the focus, and discuss now commercial claims and promies for food and other goods. (Yes.. I am to blame too!) And yes, organisations in Germany like Foodwatch.de public regulary complains against companys and their products or commercial claims. Like "Enjoy this beer and feel the power of purity age-old rock-fontain-water... bla bla" 😄 C'mon guys... how naive are you?? I mean.. yes... its good that this organisations blame companys for some promises, which are irregular and against (some) laws, but at the end of the day you should be a bit less credulously ( I hade to copy paste this word , sorry isnt in my English vocabulary)

passive aggressive insults.

What is that??? 😄 My comment was neither an insult nor aggresive...just a rhetorical question. However... passive agressive?? Is that like killing someone with an evil eye? 😆 Anyway...

I guess I made my points. For me, I like GT7, I have a lot of fun (well 1-2 hours, if possible after the job, sport, and a 3-yo boy). This might be also a point. I just don't expect as much as you guys. I still have a lot of missions, license tests and menues to drive and just not tons of time per day. I haven't drove even one online race! Not yet, but will come. Cheers!

 

[Scaff]

"Here's my question for the GTPlanet community, does GT7 represent the end of the road for you? If not, how badly has your faith been shaken in the franchise and do you trust PD to restore the series to its former glories?"

No, why would be? This is nothing new, I am with GT series from day one and since GT5 with all delays and waiting for patches, upgradea and new content is the same situation all this years.
I am just disappointed how after all this years and same problems with GT5 and 6 and Sport they are not learning anything and they managed to put self in this situation they're in today. FFS, I don't believe that there is no one there to tell Kaz and Sony, look, this **** is not going to work in this genre and with this type of players. This is not some football game or GTA, Gran Turismo players is different kind of animal 🤦🏻‍♂️

Speaking only for myself, my expectations from PD have been low since GT5, the standard cars mess with that was PD being deceptive until the last moment, and the series has been in decline for me since. GTS frustrated the hell out of me as I attended the Copper Box and the physics in that build were a solid step in the right direction, only to be undone at GTS' release.

I was actually hoping, with quite low expectations, to a Pre-GT5 return to form for the series, and even against my low expectations PD managed to swing and miss spectacularly.

Ok I guess we lose the focus, and discuss now commercial claims and promies for food and other goods. (Yes.. I am to blame too!) And yes, organisations in Germany like Foodwatch.de public regulary complains against companys and their products or commercial claims. Like "Enjoy this beer and feel the power of purity age-old rock-fontain-water... bla bla" 😄 C'mon guys... how naive are you?? I mean.. yes... its good that this organisations blame companys for some promises, which are irregular and against (some) laws, but at the end of the day you should be a bit less credulously ( I hade to copy paste this word , sorry isnt in my English vocabulary)

This isn't about naivety at all, PD advertised that you would be able to sell cars, a tradition in the series, and it wasn't in the launch build. PD also deliberately held back on the scale and scope of MTXs from the review builds, introducing them at launch and then reducing pay-outs for events after launch.

That's not consumer naivety, it's deliberately misleading advertising practices.

What is that??? 😄 My comment was neither an insult nor aggresive...just a rhetorical question. However... passive agressive?? Anyway...

To repeat what I said to another member who used the exactly same approach, it doesn't all apply to your comment, but enough certainly does.

"Then it was very, very poorly worded on your part, as such I would strongly suggest it's an approach you avoid using in future.

Those raising valid concerns about GT7, it's launch state, and PD/Sony's behaviour as a result are not just kids, they are not acting childishly in complaining, and are not crying. Those are all terms you have aimed at members here at GT Planet, regardless of their actual age, if you can't see how that can come across as insulting, and as an attempt to undermine and belittle the position and view they hold, then I would suggest you re-evaluate the manner in which you approach this topic of conversation before you next post on it."

It's also not open for debate, please don't post in this manner again.

I guess I made my points. For me, I like GT7, I have a lot of fun (well 1-2 hours, if possible after the job, sport, and a 3-yo boy). This might be also a point. I just don't expect as much as you guys. I still have a lot of missions, license tests and menues to drive and just not tons of time per day. I haven't drove even one online race! Not yet, but will come. Cheers!

By any measure the content is GT7 is staggeringly light for a full series entry, how quickly each person gets through it doesn't change that reality. That's the crux of it not being the 'Most complete GT experience to date', by any metric you pick it fails to meet that claim made by PD, and contrary to your previous claim, yes that can be quantified.

 

[Ray52]

I bought GT7 mostly for the Daytona Road course, with a secondary desire to try the 2018 Ford GT Race Car. The car isn't that great in GT7. Looks good. Drives like (expletive omitted). The Daytona track is great. I'm wearing it out in custom races. I have the American V8 race cars that make those V8 sounds and have very little interest in collecting other cars, so the big difference between race rewards and car prices doesn't bother me. I can understand why it disgusts those who want a lot of cars. Me, I'm going to dump most of the dozens of crap boxes the game has given me if that capability in ever included in the game. They are just so much clutter in my garage.

If they had simply added Daytona to GTSport, I would have had all I really wanted. I like the simplicity of GTS. GT7 is just too slow, time-consuming, and complicated when moving from one part of the game to another, and the tuning stuff is irritatingly complicated. I don't want to play at being a crew chief, engineer, etc. I just want to race. I'm a driver, not a mechanic. Besides, the tuning isn't that realistic anyhow. Oval tracks in the game and you can't put positive camber in the left side, for one glaring example. And for all-out race cars you gotta have a choice between a spool and an open differential. The LSD in the game doesn't make enough difference from one extreme setting to another.

The AI cars have not improved much over previous editions, but I can juggle things in custom races to make contests that find me battling in traffic and having a very hard time winning at Daytona. That's 60 bucks worth right there.

For me, online racing stinks. No fault of Polyphony Digital. It is just human nature. When we can't get hurt and don't have to work all week to put a car back together, people just drive differently than they do in real life.

I still have faith that GT7 will only get better. It's a fabulous game and the issues with it are all fixable via updates.

What can't be fixed is the disappointment that all these issues happened in the first place.

Well of course it will get better; it's lying in a slumped heap in a shallow grave at this point. There's no where to go but up (unless they just bury bloated corpse and call it a day)

It has more tracks than any GT game to date.

False. GT6 had 100, GT7 has 90

 

[TheCracker]

I think a lot people on this thread are either new to the series or have short (or rose-tinted) memories.

I've been playing since the original game and been on this site for almost 18 years and i've never experienced any GT game release that hasn't had its fair share of criticism.

To be fair i've not played GT7, but i can see what elements people are unhappy about and perhaps that criticism is quite justified, but the fact is so few of the issues can't be quickly reversed with future updates and i fully expect they will be, sooner or later. By the time GT8 is released, and no doubt unperfect at launch, GT7 will be considered well balanced and looked back upon fondly. There'll be some folk with short attention spans who'll have gotten fed up with GT7 after a month and not venture back to it, but i'm pretty sure they'll still be chomping at the bit on the eve of GT8 being released.

Are there many big-title games that get released these days are are perfect out of the box?

 

[Grimm6Jack]

If they release GT8 towards the end of the PS5 life cycle though, they will be right back where they were in 2013 developing GT6 for the PS3. PD should just make this the sole PS5 version of GT, and when they get the development kits (or whatever they're called) for the PS6, begin making GT8 for that system so that it launches solely for that system within the first 2-3 years of system launch. IMO that's the only way we can get out of this current situation we're in, where PD is caught between 2 generations and not really delivering a game that brings us all together.

You hit the nail on the right spot my friend.
That's exactly what they should've done with GT6.

They really should just stick with GT7 for the rest of the console. We already know how slow and incompetent PD has been since the start of the HD era. If they start working on GT8 right now, they will just be running full circle.

Stick to GT7, improve on it, add multiple cars and tracks, and alongside those 2 main ingredients, add more Missions, more Races, more Championships, more Time Trials, so that people can stay occupied and not get bored of it.
GT7 doesn't need to expand on it's graphics because they are already at a point where there is little improvement to make. The only thing it can be done is to allow the players to be able to use the actual 4k HDR Ray Tracing graphics during gameplay and not only just during replays.

GT6 was probably the most pointless GT released so far. All of it's content could've just been released on GT5. That's how little to no improvement it had.

If they'd taken the GT4 career mode and translated it into GT7 (so fill out the races to a full GT7 field and swap tracks/cars where needed for what's available) it seems like that would be a big step up. And that's just copy/pasting from a 2004 game - presumably if they'd wanted they could have taken the last 18 years of game development learnings to create a career that was really engaging.

My dude, this should've been almost exactly what they should've done with the game.

A "career mode" racing game doesn't get much better than what GT4 pulled. It was all so incredibly well laid out.

GT7 could've been exactly like GT4 with the add ons being the much improved photo mode, much improved AI, the livery editor and multiple GT Auto custom parts, the Online mode, and other gimmicks... That would be it.

The License Tests don't need much changing, they are fine the way they are.

However, who decided to put Race Events split up across each track instead of just making a Menu of 5 races of said event like they did in GT4. Why overcomplicate this?
In GT4, if I wanted to participate in an event I would just click on it (example, the Clubman Cup) and have all 5 races of said event there. Instead I have to manually go to each World Circuit Area and track to find the event. Just why?
Worst of all? I complete all of these races from said events (like the 800pp races) and I don't even get a car rewarded to me like in pretty much all other main Gran Turismo titles.

Why are there no manufacturer races? Where's the Impreza championship? Or the GT-R Skyline championship? The Mercedes Silver Arrow one-make races? Or other similar events to allow us to not just be occupied and entertained, but to expand on the cars we would be using in our GT career?

The only thing they did right in this aspect, was the Missions layout, which are propperly laid out and you actually (aside from the 10.000 credits for a Gold in a 30 minute race) receive prize cars for completing the set.

How about allowing us to reset a championship progress so that we could do it again and try to win a prize car?



I could literally do a list of things that would make this game way better than what it is... The problem would just be if the team would be competent to actually do them.
Since... yeah... 9 years to deliver an unfinished game on release and yet still charging 80€ for it... That seems to be the main problem here.

 

[Gerarghini]

A month later and still no Single Player updates.

You'd think they'd have like a day-one patch that they'd have been working on since the game went gold, but all they've managed to do so far was make the game worse for people who can actually play through the cafe to begin with.

 

[Magog]

A month later and still no Single Player updates.

You'd think they'd have like a day-one patch that they'd have been working on since the game went gold, but all they've managed to do so far was make the game worse for people who can actually play through the cafe to begin with.

You say that like they haven't already announced a single player update for early April. 😒

 

[Silver Arrows]

You say that like they haven't already announced a single player update for early April.

They never said anything about single player updates being specifically in April. Only that they were coming at a later date. And people like you desperately tried to conflate it to early April. But considering you and your boundless optimism bordering on pathology, I guess I shouldn't be surprised you got that wrong too.

 

[Got ink]

Not a chance while I love too drive and awesome replays. Sure it's not the GT game I expected, but changes will come.

I deleted it from my ps.
Maybe this summer I'll relaod it.
Right now was of time.
Aggravating. Bop settings.

 

[NICKname]

You say that like they haven't already announced a single player update for early April. 😒

Doesn't change the fact that the updates for March have been absolutely awful. Those "April" updates might also just be more of the same nonsense with a few unsubstantial improvements to appease the fans.

 

[chromatic9]

I see Driveclub brought up quite a bit

What Sony should've done is kept Evolution on, had them transport their wonderful wet weather tech and had them help with updating old GT track environments and let them develop a Forza Horizon style game using Gran Turismo name cars physics etc. Horizon is a hugely popular title that excels is graphic technology like Driveclub and both studios are from UK.

Would've been the perfect answer to Forza Horizon using the Motorstorm/Driveclub devs for a spinoff title.

 

[Got ink]

Doesn't change the fact that the updates for March have been absolutely awful. Those "April" updates might also just be more of the same nonsense with a few unsubstantial improvements to appease the fans.

They kind of destroyed the game the handling of the cars now makes them pretty much undrivable under the games default settings all due in my opinion to the ridiculous rear toe settings that they've given the cars nothing is competitive anymore all you do is sit there and watch cars drive away from you in the single player games and they give you these bizarre tire wear and fuel ratings that make it that all you're doing is running in power level 6 trying to conserve fuel in a car that already wasn't competing

 

[Gt350500]

Absolutely not, the game is for me and many others already a fantastic experience which is also continuously expected to be even better 🙂

 

[m76]

Beyond repair. From now on every title in the franchise if there ever will be another will get the wait and see approach instead of pre-ordering without a second thought.

And it's not necessarily because of the economy of the game, that's fixable. However I don't think there is an easy fix for the atrocious physics and force feedback.

Some people will try to convince you that it is more realistic. But is it really? Or is it just sunken cost fallacy at work, desperately needing to cling to a misplaced faith that it is better, because admitting failure on such a scale is unbearable.

 

[SkyHigh]

Beyond repair. From now on every title in the franchise if there ever will be another will get the wait and see approach instead of pre-ordering without a second thought.

And it's not necessarily because of the economy of the game, that's fixable. However I don't think there is an easy fix for the atrocious physics and force feedback.

Some people will try to convince you that it is more realistic. But is it really? Or is it just sunken cost fallacy at work, desperately needing to cling to a misplaced faith that it is better, because admitting failure on such a scale is unbearable.

atrocious? you were saying GTS had better physics somewhere... seems like one can't believe in your opinions. GT7 has the oversteer problem, GTS has no feeling at all.

 

[FPV MIC]

They never said anything about single player updates being specifically in April. Only that they were coming at a later date. And people like you desperately tried to conflate it to early April. But considering you and your boundless optimism bordering on pathology, I guess I shouldn't be surprised you got that wrong too.

Actually they did (below). What they didn't say was they were adding to the menu books in April.

While not much, it's something.

 

[champagnepowe]

I will never buy another GT game on release. It's disappointing that after eight years they released a game so riddle with bugs and broken cars. I do like the graphics, driving physics, and customization of cars but it has left a lot to be desired. Just some blatant middle fingers to the dedicated fan base.

The track selection is actually quite poor when you think of the time they had to develop. They just usd tracks they had figured out from previous games. Not that many real world tracks. Oh, here is Monza! ONE race for this classic track is a joke. The lack of diversity in the types of races is also disappointing. It seems that most cars have no application in the game as they don't have races set up for them.

The economy is set up for a grind and I'm fine with that if there is enough content in the game to keep you engaged. 24 minutes at le mans mission payout was 10k. Another big FU to the customers. Not being able to sell cars is ridiculous. The attempt of forcing microtransactions is quite noticeable and disgusting. Wondering how many payouts i got screwed on before they fixed some of them. I deliberately didn't do the Monza GT3 race because 1st place paid 5k.

Sport mode isn't nearly as good as it was in GTsport. People are hacking and making records irrelevant.

I played the game hard right after release and have gold in everything but some circuit experiences. Now I just don't find the game engaging and even if the increase payouts the events themselves are boring.

 

[Brego]

"Permanently" damaged? At first I was going to say no, but I realize that I'm probably never going to buy on day 1 ever again. CERTAINLY will never buy a new console to accomodate the new GT8 or 9, whatever it happens to be. So I would say yes, permanently damaged my outlook and expectations. I used to be a big fan, almost fanboy w/e: I have 100% complete on every previoius version, and 100% all gold licenses, and usually every car available purchased on every version.

But this GT7 is damaged goods, along with my expectations.

Making a misstep is one thing, but actually working backwards is not something I can be sympathetic with. Like uhm, RAIN.
Listen, I drive an actual car with actual tires on actual roads with actual rain. And I noticed something peculiar. When I turn the steering wheel in the rain, the car ACTUALLY turns. Gran Turismo 7, not so much. I think they took the snow handling from GT5 and slapped a "RAIN" sticker on it, and shoved into the GT7 box. Because along with driving in the rain, guess what else I've done IRL? I have driven on snow and ice too. And let me tell you right now, under 40mph/65kmh the handling of rain in GT7 is almost exactly like a mix of hard pack snow and white ice. Anything faster and the handling is almost exactly like black ice.

No car, I don't care what the configuration, is going to lose traction because of the rain at 20mph and slide for 80 feet. That is ice and snow my friends, its not rain. Does PD hire devs that have never driven a car? I don't get it, and I'm not sympathetic.

The talking heads situation is not tolerable. The menu has been stuck on Vangelis - Chariots of Fire for a week now. You could add Chariots of Fire to my permanently damaged list too. If I never hear that song again it will be too soon. On the bright side, I learned where the mute button on my remote is, finally. I also check the upper right corner now to see if its safe to turn the sound on again.

Okay, I'm getting into a rant now so I won't go into my list. I love the graphics and the game in general, but the implementation is just unacceptable. The good times don't outweigh the bad at this point. OCD is the only reason I will complete this game as it stands.

 

[FPV MIC]

People are hacking and making records irrelevant.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim? I know people are exploiting the PP system with tuning but that's not hacking.

 

[ThatGuy405]

This is a weird forum.

 

[Coquico]

Not for me. I understand your point if view, but i think the game will have a long life, an it will change a lot. I pray for qualifying and not chasing the rabbit races

 

[m76]

atrocious? you were saying GTS had better physics somewhere... seems like one can't believe in your opinions. GT7 has the oversteer problem, GTS has no feeling at all.

Just because something is extremely hard and frustrating doesn't make it better. Although Elden Ring / Dark Souls players like to believe that. Let them have their delusions.

I just played GT League in GTS today, and each time I start that game I'm blown away by how much better it is than GT7. Especially the force feedback. It is actually feedback on what the car does, you can feel understeer, you can feel the shifting of the center of gravity. Cars behave exactly as you'd expect based on the equipped tyre and their configuration, ie.: A high powered FF car will torque steer, and prone to understeering under power.

Is GTS the most realistic thing ever? Hardly. Physics wise my favorite sim is still live for speed. But Gran Turismo is not supposed to be ultra realistic. It is a fun simarcade game, always has been. Those who want it to be a hardcore sim are barking up the wrong tree.

I have a thousand times more fun playing the single player portion of GTS right now compared to GT7. I wish I had known sooner that they added so much SP content to GTS since release, I could have enjoyed it sooner.

 

[ApexGun]

They lost my trust and respect with GT5, it was meant to be a launch title for PS3, Sony was marketing it like that. And every 6 months they kept saying in 6 months, in 6 months. It was delivered exactly 4 years after the PS3 dropped. And to make it worse it wasn't very good either.

These guys pretty much have carte blanche to do wtf they want with as much money as it takes and this is the rubbish they produce. Imagine if Kunos had the resources PD do, we would have a new game every year that is better in every way possible.

Instead Kaz spends his time taking the team to go Lazer scan the brake lights on the AE86 so it has the correct IRL molded lettering on the plastic but then doesn't laser scan tracks which is much more useful, instead Kaz gets orchestra composed music, but then doesn't employ a competent audio guy on the engine sounds and so on it goes through the whole game. He is just lost at this point, I think he doesn't really give a **** anymore and just loves the dollars and parading around like a car culture god at pebble beach.

The sad thing is the next GT game will be equally rubbish but it will still sell tens of millions of units. Meanwhile actual modern racing Sims like ACC sell a few thousand units.
For some reason everyone just goes out and buys GT even if it reviews poorly or average

 

[SkyHigh]

Just because something is extremely hard and frustrating doesn't make it better. Although Elden Ring / Dark Souls players like to believe that. Let them have their delusions.

I just played GT League in GTS today, and each time I start that game I'm blown away by how much better it is than GT7. Especially the force feedback. It is actually feedback on what the car does, you can feel understeer, you can feel the shifting of the center of gravity. Cars behave exactly as you'd expect based on the equipped tyre and their configuration, ie.: A high powered FF car will torque steer, and prone to understeering under power.

Is GTS the most realistic thing ever? Hardly. Physics wise my favorite sim is still live for speed. But Gran Turismo is not supposed to be ultra realistic. It is a fun simarcade game, always has been. Those who want it to be a hardcore sim are barking up the wrong tree.

I have a thousand times more fun playing the single player portion of GTS right now compared to GT7. I wish I had known sooner that they added so much SP content to GTS since release, I could have enjoyed it sooner.

I would believe Force Feedback is bugged on GT7, but in relation to car physics, I think GT7 is better, if only for the snap oversteer bug/mistake. GTS is just too dull after GT7, but the FFB is certainly better, even if it's not great either