Finally I can see the point of a lot of people here and why are they arguing for,starting from the fact that GT5(without considering the intermediate projects TT,GTHD,prologue(more like an starters version GT5))took almost 6 years to develop,yet not concentrating in key features like cockpits or making a good balance 500-600 premiums,which is kind of problematic because a lot of us wants to see premiums,and while we don't know where all of this development went.
Cut this down so I'm not quoting the entire post, but I read it all. It's good to know you at least see the point some of us are trying to make. Thanks, akira 👍
Making a direct statement such as, "These cars look lifelike to me" isn't dancing around anything.
"These cars look likelife to me" isn't an answer to "why or how do you think these cars look lifelike". So, still none.
The answer, my good man, is probably down to psychology.
Oh, I'll agree there, though probably not how you're implying. Let's see...
You are evidently anal retentive about detail.
If that were the case I'd be overjoyed with the Premiums and trashing Prologue for being inferior to them. I'm not. I don't see the point in individual stitches modeled on the back seats of cars. I do see a need in using models that actually stand up to the standards of the genre in this generation, though.
I can easily see that the first thing you're going to do when you fire up GT5 and grab a Standard car for a race is scan over the car model for flaws. Kind of like all the images I post. You look at the ground for signs of CG blobs. You look over the car models for visible facets. If you don't see them, you look harder or enlarge, and I can easily see you blowing up images I've reduced to see messed up textures. Which yes, textures which are compressed in GT4 and compressed further in image reduction are going to look messy.
I'm sure the condescending thing works on others, but it's pretty pointless here. I've literally spent years with Photomode. I can scroll through the page and barely give your images a look and see instantly they're from GT4, not some images grabbed from a race on Speed or something. I don't need to enlarge anything. Hell, even when I first started posting Photomode pictures, I was shrinking them to half the output size to minimize the flaws. And this was before I had the understanding of image/model/texture quality I do now. They looked great back in 2005, sure, and definitely were a surprise considering they were on the PS2... but they never looked incredibly realistic to me.
Meanwhile, I take in the whole thing and see an image very much like I'd see if some racing photographer hadn't taken an 18 megapixel shot at high f stop and shutter speed. I see an image that doesn't look like it should be possible on GT4 on an archaic PS2. I see something amazing and lifelike. This is undoubtedly why some posters after my piccies like IVORBIGUN remarked that they looked amazing.
What's remotely surprising about people who will stand behind anything PD-related, unquestioning, saying the pictures are amazing?
And you go "Ew."
I can appreciate them as a feat for 2004. They are resolutely unimpressive in 2010. Well, they're impressive that they can still look presentable considering the leaps and bounds the Premiums have over them; throwing GT2's models into GT3, for example, wouldn't have worked as well visually. But from a technical standpoint, no, they're not impressive at all in this generation. To say otherwise is fanboyism, really.
And I think this is the basis for our differences in reaction to everything concerning GT5. You'll be analyzing the game, in fact probably analyzing
two separate games, and I'll be enjoying the game, one game. You may not want to take a single Standard photo, while I'll be taking pics by the thousands. And maybe not Photoshopping them after all. It depends on what we get and my reaction. After all, I enjoy looking at the untouched GT4 pics I take, in fact, I love them, while apparently they give you the shakes.
I might take some pictures of Standards. I just realize they're going to have to be scaled down to roughly the size GT4 is giving us images. I want my images to look realistic; giant pixelized lines in place of proper panel gaps kind of throws that off. I've never denied the difference between the tiers will be less noticeable during actual racing, though... well, unless you count trying to drive inside the car. Or hit a wall. Or want actual illumination from your headlights...
This my angle too. I really do want all those Standard cars, because so many cars I'm going to want to collect and race and mod and shoot can't be in a small Premium list. Some people mock this and say things like "quantity over quality," but that's being simplistic, and missing the point. It's actually "You can own and drive this car looking really good, not even to PS3 levels but really good regardless, or not have it at all." Obviously I want it.
Fixed that for you.
Besides, the point of Gran Turismo is that these are
your cars to do with as you see fit. This is the first and most important point.
Second is sneering at everyone who puts a nose splitter and tail wing on their car to race, and maybe even a racing number and some decals. You know, this is
actually what people do to cars to make them more competitive.
THESE ARE NOT RICERS:
*snip*
I'm still hopeful that there will be race modding of Standard cars, but we'll see in a couple of months, by TGS at the latest.
Well, we are in agreeance here; why do people deem any deviation from stock, in the name of performance no less, as "ricer"? So often in GT4 I would avoid using a road car with a wing to race actual race cars because it always just felt and looked wrong. The (R) mods were an incredibly cool part of the PS1 games for giving you the chance to turn your humdrum old MA70 into a de facto race car. It effectively doubled the car list, and your car didn't look so out of place on a grid of actual race cars.
It'd be nice to have them back, and honestly, if we got some surprise announcement about them for all Standards, I would instantly look past the two-tier system. Seriously. As it stands though, I'm sticking to my prediction Standards will have roughly the same customization levels as they had in GT4... and that we
might see something similar to (R) Mods for the Premiums as hinted by the Concepts in Prologue, and (hopefully) a livery editor. 👍
That's a poor and irrelevant comparison and you ( as a musician ) should know that.
That's pretty much like saying the latest computer software to create images makes anything Rembrandt or Michelangelo created obsolete purely on the techniques they used.
I know that creating games demands artistry and creativity as well but it also relies heavily on state of the art technology to be relevant unlike any other artform.
Worded far better than I could've 👍
Somehow this argument keeps coming up when discussing cockpit view.
Which is odd as Prologue also introduced online to GT, I wonder what the reaction would be if GT5 only offered online for Premium cars?
I'm sure someone, somewhere, on here would spin that as a positive thing. PD should just pick up new PR people directly through this board!
Fun fact: if development time for the cars were directly determined by polygon count, using 200k models instead of 500k models would lift the premium share to over 50 % - so, more than 500 cars.
Except, this is total bull:censored: and actually means nothing. I had fun though, didn't you guys?
You misunderstood, though I guess I should've been more clear. Limit the modelers to a 3 month period for each car, instead of allowing them 6. That's all I meant about that. I recognize the quality wouldn't be where it is now... but it'd still be much better than GT4.
If you think about it, it makes more sense to model at this higher level and use a "scaled down" version for the game. In fact, this procedure is used in all modern games - even GT4 did. It takes the same amount of time, maybe less because you're not obsessing over where to make the efficiency savings. Any modelers here who can vouch for this?
Hmmm, I have touched on that somewhere in this thread though... while I'm bothered by the sheer time involved in each Premium and their (to me) unnecessary detail level, it will pay for itself over the years in the sense of being "future-proof". I can promise that when ever we see a new GT on the next PlayStation, I won't be complaining if the current Premiums become the new Standards... though that'll probably be a decade from now, so who knows
and triple the amount of most other racing games.... and they're all in glorious HD. I doubt the 800 Standard cars will look that bad, you won't really notice the lower detail when on the track. I think of the 200 premium's as the main GT5 cars and the 800 standards as being extra cars added in for old time's sake. It's very likely that GT6 will have at least 600 premium cars, considering how they have now got most of the 'base' of the game complete.
) and pretty much all of the extra development time is accounted for.
