Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"
- Thread starter LP670-4 SV
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You already got that game. It was called GT5 Prologue.
And I can tell you right now that I would never have bought a PS3 had they done that. Nevermind that many of the more major features have only been implemented in the past two years, but you think it is better to rush the game out to shelves with half the content (but the same price) and then back charge for the other half afterwards? What has this generation done to people?
How absurd. You aren't "owed" anything. PD could make an announcement tomorrow that they are canceling the game for all the difference it makes to what you are "owed." Sony is a business making a product. If the product takes to long or runs over budget, you have the option of not buying it. But they don't have to apologize to you because you weren't able to buy it from them at your leisure.
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Exactly the case of Forza,they throw the game(well the last one)with an add of 30-40 cars and then charge you 50 USD for 10 pack in a rate of 5 cars each pacage,while GT spect III update feature around 30 cars for free,in Forza you end up paying between 90 to 150 USD for a game that should have these cars in the first place(458 Italia,599XX,GT-R,among others)
I will hate to have a GT game that follows those lines, I like more GT5p demo and don't make me pay more for cars that must be in the initial release.then have a full version of the game with the latest cars.
- 11,343
- Chicago, iLL
- GTP_Nismo
You already said it does.
How do I know it's the final product? Because PD had 5 years to polish up GT4 models and make them look as good as possible. After 5 years they finally showed them to us, and 5 months before release, they wouldn't drop that bomb unless the cars were as good looking as possible.
It doesn't bother me. I just like pointing out things that are odd to me.
- 8,017
- GTP_Royalton
Fine and dandy, but when they start losing support and people start flocking to Forza, iRacing and other alternatives they have no one but themselves to blame.
Tornado
Then that's your loss and my and I'm sure many other's gain.
Tornado
What major features? Damage? Damage should have been implemented 10 years ago. Online? Most racing games have robust online modes and they didn't need to be delayed 2 years for it.
Tornado
Who said Rush? I said give us what was or should I say SHOULD have been finished by the fall of '08 with proper modes etc instead of the expanded demo/trial that is Prologue. Prologue was $40 btw and for the amount of content it offers compared to $60 GT5 its a total rip off. Does that bother you? Or would you have wanted GT5P to be a proper "GT5" with full features but lighter on the cars and tracks compared to previous GT titles?
And you make "half the content" sound so bad. There's nothing bad about 100+ cars and 15 tracks. In fact that's as much or more then 95% of racing games offer. And they're not being sold for $30 but rather $60.
Tornado
Look, Kaz messed up. He's admitted it. There is no reason for there to be a 4 year gap between sequels, unless the previous game had super longevity and expandability via DLC which GT4 didn't.
- 13,916
- Adelaide
- Neomone
I love when people use this argument. It completely ignores that GT5P specI was possibly the worst value for money game in the entire universe. 37 cars and 5 tracks (6 if you count the Daytona variations as unique, they're pretty different), for $50 US? Please.
- 2,796
- São Paulo
- Dravonic
- 1,156
So im assuming you have played GT5 online then. Tell me whats it like as im dying to know!
On a serious note, how do you know what online features GT5 will have. From the screenshots we have seen this is hardly your typical online racing game on a console.
What we have on this thread is a bunch of know it alls who for some reason are making wild assumptions about GT5 and yet haven't driven a single lap. Who are we to question what PD have been doing these past 5yrs because the full content of GT5 will not be known until we actually play it. Until then the only opinion I shall take any notice of is those who have actually played GT5. Now according to recent magazines I have purchased they both say that once you play GT5 you realise why its taken 5 yrs to develop.
Still remains one of my favourite racing games and in my opinion a bargain for £20. I have paid £40 for some atrocious racing games.
- 1,629
- RedSuinit
This whole thread is now pointless PD hatred. It is also pointless defending of PD. They made the decisions they made. If they end up going under, they go under. All of this yelling, screaming, and hair pulling by BOTH sides of the argument is only helping to degrade the reputation of this site. I am only ashamed that I helped in keeping this thread alive for as long as it has stayed alive.
- 63
- SSJNeBiRoS
I repeat that since GT4 PD have released Tourist Trophy and Gran Turismo PSP, maybe they aren't interesting for you, but they are for at least 2 million of people, it isn't like if they have been doing GT5 only since GT4, although both the TT and the GT PSP are more or less recycled from GT4, development takes time, maybe if instead of TT and GT PSP they focused only on the GT5 it could have been done 2 years ago or so, though I doubt it would have had everything that will have in November.
And for the GT5 with 100 premiums, 15 tracks and online in 2008... The GT5P have 70+ premiums, 5 tracks with variants and online mode, just saying.
- 2,796
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- Dravonic
His whole argument is that 50$ for mere 37 cars is too much to pay. Thus when they added 30+ cars for free all they did was give you what you already paid for.
Basically they overpriced their product, then added free content. However what you paid for the product more than justify the free content you got latter. In fact you gained nothing. Much like notorious TV stores that claim you get an incredible amount of free things if you buy the product from them. But they sell it at a much higher price. For example they sell a product for 1000$ and give you a lot of other products for free. However that same product costs 800$ in other stores and those products you got for free cost 200$.
- 5,700
- Edison NJ
- jdmking13
- Lucid killer 58
Well when i got the game it had all the cars except a few with the new update so Im not complaining.
Yea man that is a killer my friend has spent over 100 dollars for Forza3 I really hope if PD going to do DLC they let you buy any car you want instead of buying packs.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Prologue's a lot of fun, but I'm glad I got it for free in a bundle with my PS3 because I don't really think I would've bought it otherwise. Is it a good deal for the $30 I would've spent? Yes and no. I finished it in a day, but obviously I still have yet to drive every car, have yet to buy some (the F2007 and Citroen), and haven't tired of online racing. The racing itself provides what I'm looking for, and the graphics are fantastic, but the online is limited, there's very little of the classic GT features (dumbed-down tuning, no GT mode), no photomode, etc etc.
It's preferable to some other racing games on the console that cost as much or more, so in that sense it's a deal. However, it's half the price I'll be charged for a standard copy of GT5, and features far, far less than half of what that will offer. So in that sense... no, it's a terrible deal.
This doesn't have much to do with the topic at hand, but something tells me this thread won't really ever get back to solely being about that. At least not until GamesCom.
I'm sure I'll hear more and more comments about how I'm wrong in being remotely disappointed about the Standard cars because "the whole package", but this thread isn't asking my thoughts on the whole package. It's about what I feel about the tier system, and while I'm giving a hesistant "yes, I'll enjoy it" about the whole game (depending on how well all of these new features like weather and time of day are integrated not just together, but across the board, evenly), I'm going to remain bitter about the Standards for the simple fact that while they may not have outright lied to us... over the years PD has been incredibly choosy and misleading about their claims for this game. Banishing any hint of GT4 carryover models for years and showing nothing but the Premiums, only to re-introduce the recycled last-gens a few months before the release (we read about the two tiers, but up until E3 didn't know concretely what it entailed) is definitely a misleading move.
Plus all this talk of "expect perfection", or GT5 being a "revolution", or the hilarity which is "PS4 levels"... it's hard to take seriously when a huge, huge portion of the stars of the game (the cars) are simply picked up from the last iteration in the series, off a last-gen system from six years ago, and dropped wholesale into the new engine. Maybe Kaz is right, maybe we're getting a revolution; maybe all the other developers will just start plundering their PS2 titles for assets instead. What a precedent to set...
You don't remember them suggesting that years ago? Micro-transactions? It was almost universally panned by the community. There's no one "right" way to do DLC without having at least one displeased party, whether it's PD, Sony, or us.
It's preferable to some other racing games on the console that cost as much or more, so in that sense it's a deal. However, it's half the price I'll be charged for a standard copy of GT5, and features far, far less than half of what that will offer. So in that sense... no, it's a terrible deal.
This doesn't have much to do with the topic at hand, but something tells me this thread won't really ever get back to solely being about that. At least not until GamesCom.
I'm sure I'll hear more and more comments about how I'm wrong in being remotely disappointed about the Standard cars because "the whole package", but this thread isn't asking my thoughts on the whole package. It's about what I feel about the tier system, and while I'm giving a hesistant "yes, I'll enjoy it" about the whole game (depending on how well all of these new features like weather and time of day are integrated not just together, but across the board, evenly), I'm going to remain bitter about the Standards for the simple fact that while they may not have outright lied to us... over the years PD has been incredibly choosy and misleading about their claims for this game. Banishing any hint of GT4 carryover models for years and showing nothing but the Premiums, only to re-introduce the recycled last-gens a few months before the release (we read about the two tiers, but up until E3 didn't know concretely what it entailed) is definitely a misleading move.
Plus all this talk of "expect perfection", or GT5 being a "revolution", or the hilarity which is "PS4 levels"... it's hard to take seriously when a huge, huge portion of the stars of the game (the cars) are simply picked up from the last iteration in the series, off a last-gen system from six years ago, and dropped wholesale into the new engine. Maybe Kaz is right, maybe we're getting a revolution; maybe all the other developers will just start plundering their PS2 titles for assets instead. What a precedent to set...
You don't remember them suggesting that years ago? Micro-transactions? It was almost universally panned by the community. There's no one "right" way to do DLC without having at least one displeased party, whether it's PD, Sony, or us.
I guess this thread just shows, this will be the biggest thorn in the side of GT5. Looking at some of the posts, there is a lot of disappointment due to the 800 standard cars.
The crazy thing is that NFS:SHIFT had less that 200 premium cars, tracks, and didn't play, look or drive as good as GT5 probably will. Yet throwing the 1000 cars number about for the last 5 years by Polyphony means GT5 looks more like a let-down, or false advertising to most fans. Had we been told that GT5 will only have 200 cars from day one we might see things differently now.
Then again, NFS:SHIFT did not take 5 years to make and I suppose 70 out of those 200 cars we have already paid for when we bought GT5P. Ugh, what a mess.
Perhaps the game should just have been the 200 premium cars and the other 800 could have been an add-on pack or something, like GT Classic or, I don't know...
The crazy thing is that NFS:SHIFT had less that 200 premium cars, tracks, and didn't play, look or drive as good as GT5 probably will. Yet throwing the 1000 cars number about for the last 5 years by Polyphony means GT5 looks more like a let-down, or false advertising to most fans. Had we been told that GT5 will only have 200 cars from day one we might see things differently now.
Then again, NFS:SHIFT did not take 5 years to make and I suppose 70 out of those 200 cars we have already paid for when we bought GT5P. Ugh, what a mess.
Perhaps the game should just have been the 200 premium cars and the other 800 could have been an add-on pack or something, like GT Classic or, I don't know...
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
I guess this thread just shows that this will be the biggest thorn in the side of GT5. Looking at some of the posts, there is a lot of disappointment due to the 800 standard cars.
The crazy thing is that NFS:SHIFT had less that 200 premium cars, tracks, and didn't play, look or drive as good as GT5 probably will. Yet throwing the 1000 cars number about for the last 5 years by Polyphony means GT5 looks more like a let-down, or false advertising to most fans. Had we been told that GT5 will only have 200 cars from day one we might see things differently now.
Then again NFS:SHIFT did not take 5 years to make and I suppose 70 out of those 200 cars we have already paid for when we bought GT5P. Ugh, what a mess.
Perhaps the game should just have been the 200 premium cars and the other 800 could have been an add-on pack or something, like GT Classic or, I don't know...
Honestly, it's amazing what some PR work can do. Imagine the Standards had been one giant secret from the beginning. We never got a hint about a huge car list, it always hovered around 200 or so. Then the day of release, we pop the disc into the PS3 to find the 800 Standards. That would actually constitute a "bonus".
I'd still say they're not up to par with the current generation graphically, because, well, it's true
.But it would be surpassing expectations, not failing to meet them, in regards to the car count. It's all about managing expectations, and between this and the likely lack of cockpits, PD has given a pretty solid lesson to every other company out there about exactly how important this expectation management can be in this line of work.
- 1,156
I don't agree about false advertising because GT5 will still consist of a 1000 cars.I guess this thread just shows, this will be the biggest thorn in the side of GT5. Looking at some of the posts, there is a lot of disappointment due to the 800 standard cars.
The crazy thing is that NFS:SHIFT had less that 200 premium cars, tracks, and didn't play, look or drive as good as GT5 probably will. Yet throwing the 1000 cars number about for the last 5 years by Polyphony means GT5 looks more like a let-down, or false advertising to most fans. Had we been told that GT5 will only have 200 cars from day one we might see things differently now.
Then again, NFS:SHIFT did not take 5 years to make and I suppose 70 out of those 200 cars we have already paid for when we bought GT5P. Ugh, what a mess.
Perhaps the game should just have been the 200 premium cars and the other 800 could have been an add-on pack or something, like GT Classic or, I don't know...
As for NFS Shift it didn't take 5yrs to develop which is why we had beach balls as front tyres. Anyone who played this game will know exactly what I mean.
Finally I don't see the point of having only premium cars. If some people don't like standard cars then don't use them.
Honestly, it's amazing what some PR work can do. Imagine the Standards had been one giant secret from the beginning. We never got a hint about a huge car list, it always hovered around 200 or so. Then the day of release, we pop the disc into the PS3 to find the 800 Standards. That would actually constitute a "bonus".
I'd still say they're not up to par with the current generation graphically, because, well, it's true
But it would be surpassing expectations, not failing to meet them, in regards to the car count. It's all about managing expectations, and between this and the likely lack of cockpits, PD has given a pretty solid lesson to every other company out there about exactly how important this expectation management can be in this line of work.
Couldn't agree more, but the funny things is, no matter what they do now, apart from the impossible, another 800 premium cars, they can't fix it.
Unless they had a time travel machine. But then if they did, I'm sure there's plenty of other things they'd like to change. Like taking back the wasted time spent on GT5Mobile, and gimmick cars like the Citroen. Give me an extra classic sports car as premium instead of that monstrosity any day.
- 706
If at all PD will release DLC packs they should be free, to compensate for the mistake they made.
Come on, I didn't say it was false advertising, I just said that's how it looks to a lot of people. To me it's an over ambitious vision that didn't quite make it, but I still believe it will be the best driving game on PS3.
I just meant as an add-on so GT fans would think they get more in 800 standard cars not less as in only 200 premium cars. SlipZtrEm covered it beautifully, I couldn't have done it better myself.
And yes I played the demo of NFS:S**T, sorry , I mean SHIFT, it was bad, handling was shocking, but it was the first title that came to mind when I posted. Mind you, I heard that when upgrades are applied to cars one can see the racing seats, extra gauges, stripped out cockpits, different exhausts and even the tyre brand names on tyres, oh and the tyre smoke effects are fantastic. Shame about the rest.
This standard cars business is disappointing but not a big problem for me, 200 is a lot of cars, what worries me is whether that amazing NASCAR damage being described by the reviewers will apply to all the other 200 premium models and how it will interact with the standard cars. I guess we all have our issues... (Off-Topic)
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- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
So now I'm an unquestioning apologist? Since we're playing extremes of the spectrum, does that make you a troll? I keed, I keed.
Anyway, to the heart of the matter...
Well, then I guess I'm a fanboy, and I guess I do admit as much. But, let's do some basic math and compare the Forza 3 pics I posted and my GT4 pics previously.
Actually, let me say that for the purpose of this post, and most likely for the future, I'll just forget about presenting anything to you in this regard. We apparently will never see this issue remotely the same way, and nothing from GT4 will ever satisfy you. So the remainder of this post is directed to the rest of the folk here.
The Forza 3 pics are very fine, high quality, and the polygons of these cars are treated so well that I either can't find any, or they're so small as to not matter. Textures are a little fuzzy, due to Microsofts heavy handed compression handling when you send the images to their site, but everything is equally futzed up, so at least the effect is on every aspect. When you apply some color correction, they look pretty decent.
The GT4 images are kind of a mixed bag in comparison. Looking closely, you'll see polygon facets, and if you keep looking, you'll see more. Even so, if you compare the models to contemporary racing games, i.e. not the very latest games released just a few months ago, they actually compare surprisingly well. Texture details are actually fairly similar, which is amazing when you consider this is being rendered on a pretty much outdated antique among computing devices.
But then, I compare them, and not against the much more advanced Forza 2, but the very latest game, the recently released Forza 3:
Now frankly, though the Forza cars have more polygons and a deeper color pallette, they don't look real. To me, the GT4 images do have an uncanny resemblance to real life. I could have pulled some truly ugly looking Forza 2 images, as evidently it does almost nothing to images to shine them up, but F3 is the acid test, a game which is the very pinnacle of non-Gran Turismo graphics, and FAR more advanced than GT4, and the 360 than the PS2.
I think this says a ton for what we can expect even from Standard cars in GT5. You may disagree, but I find these GT4 images speak rather loudly in their favor.
You must be a busy man, because this is a very strange planet.
By the way...
For those saying Prologue launched at $50, it originally sold for $39.95, in America at least. I imported it too, and it cost $48 from Play-Asia.
You and me both, and I have a feeling we'll have a few million for company.No disappointment here, and nothing to fix either. 200 premium cars is better than most games (i would even say all console games) plus another 800 standard cars?
But i guess I'm just easy to please.
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- 5,767
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- TPC_Raccooon23
- CRaccoon23
You and me both, and I have a feeling we'll have a few million for company.
Make that three. I am still very excited about having 1000 cars despite them being split into two different categories. 👍
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- Insomniac_driver
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- Montreal
- Orbit-360
Eight!
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- V8SuperCars GTP_V8SuperCars
nine, bring it!
