Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Talon]

Ten, lets see how far this goes!

 

[GTP_ENERGIYA]

Eleven:tup:

 

[Daniel]

Twelve 👍

I do reckon that 200 Premium is Excellent, most racing games don't even have that much fullstop!
Plus, I think we're setting the standards too, too high. The Standard cars still look awesome...


P.S.Don't just put in a number as a post, at least put a reason, or we'll all get infractions for spam

 

[Keisu]

Thirteen!👍

 

[GTP_V8SuperCars]

Twelve 👍

I do reckon that 200 Premium is Excellent, most racing games don't even have that much fullstop!
Plus, I think we're setting the standards too, too high. The Standard cars still look awesome...


P.S.Don't just put in a number as a post, at least put a reason, or we'll all get infractions for spam

Couldnt agree more with you Dan, most games hit 200 cars as max.

 

[McLaren]

Exactly the case of Forza,they throw the game(well the last one)with an add of 30-40 cars and then charge you 50 USD for 10 pack in a rate of 5 cars each pacage,while GT spect III update feature around 30 cars for free,in Forza you end up paying between 90 to 150 USD for a game that should have these cars in the first place(458 Italia,599XX,GT-R,among others)

Once again, you obviously talk about things you have no knowledge about.

It's 10 cars for $5 a pack ($2/a car if you can't do the math) & they have released 70 new cars for $35 which is exactly what I've paid for the amount of new content & is no different from my friend who likes to buy a lot of the songs released for Rock Band each week.

That's a better deal than GT5 originally only having 37 cars & costing $50. For those of us in the US who were only originally offered Spec II, that was still 71 cars for $50, so we can go ahead & attribute the other $15 to the 6 tracks.

Yea man that is a killer my friend has spent over 100 dollars for Forza3 I really hope if PD going to do DLC they let you buy any car you want instead of buying packs.

Your friend is obviously not buying just DLC. All the DLC combined only costs $65 unless he bought the game new, then it's $50. LCE knocks out the $10 VIP pack.

MS is also in charge of the pricing of DLC content & T10 is far from the first developer to offer DLC in this form. But then again, this being a GT forum, many will forget that & lie about the actual DLC packs, ex. akira.

 

[RedSuinit]

Once again, you obviously talk about things you have no knowledge about.

It's 10 cars for $5 a pack ($2/a car if you can't do the math) & they have released 70 new cars for $35 which is exactly what I've paid for the amount of new content & is no different from my friend who likes to buy a lot of the songs released for Rock Band each week.

That's a better deal than GT5 originally only having 37 cars & costing $50. For those of us in the US who were only originally offered Spec II, that was still 71 cars for $50, so we can go ahead & attribute the other $15 to the 6 tracks.

Your friend is obviously not buying just DLC. All the DLC combined only costs $65 unless he bought the game new, then it's $50. LCE knocks out the $10 VIP pack.

MS is also in charge of the pricing of DLC content & T10 is far from the first developer to offer DLC in this form. But then again, this being a GT forum, many will forget that & lie about the actual DLC packs, ex. akira.

WTF are you talking about? GT5P has ALWAYS been 39.99 USD MSRP. ALWAYS.

 

[Conquerer]

WTF are you talking about? GT5P has ALWAYS been 39.99 USD MSRP. ALWAYS.

Even in Canada it was never over $40.

 

[McLaren]

WTF are you talking about? GT5P has ALWAYS been 39.99 USD MSRP. ALWAYS.

Oh, excuse me, . Doesn't change the fact $40 originally for 37 cars & 6 tracks doesn't make it same kind of amazing deal compared to MS charging $35 for 70 cars. Even with Spec II, $5 cheaper for the same amount of cars.

In case you're not getting it yet, my argument isn't against what GT5 costs vs. it's content. It's the silly fanboys lying about T10's DLC content pricing & how GT5 is a better deal.

 

[Organ-Donor]

Fourteen:tup:I want to race all models together though, I don't want the game split into two.

 

[RedSuinit]

Oh, excuse me, . Doesn't change the fact $40 originally for 37 cars & 6 tracks doesn't make it same kind of amazing deal compared to MS charging $35 for 70 cars. Even with Spec II, $5 cheaper for the same amount of cars.

In case you're not getting it yet, my argument isn't against what GT5 costs vs. it's content. It's the silly fanboys lying about T10's DLC content pricing & how GT5 is a better deal.

Their pricing is fine, it's the fact that they will release the DLC packs with bugs is what bathers me a little bit. But hey, almost every game has bugs in one form or another.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Just found some old videos that I didn't get to watch on GTTV.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afwXoY2MH8M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB6RE8IbjuM

Ironic but if Kaz actually read this thread I actually think he would disagree with my opinions and actually agree with those who are complaining about the standard cars.

This guy is even more of a car nut than I appreciated with his main focus being on the car modelling. I love when he says "I don't sleep through the night without thinking about Gran Turismo".

Im even more certain now that we won't see much in the way of DLC on GT5. I reckon Kaz will secretly be disappointed not having 1000 premiums and will be hard at work producing GT6.

 

[Conquerer]

Oh, excuse me, . Doesn't change the fact $40 originally for 37 cars & 6 tracks doesn't make it same kind of amazing deal compared to MS charging $35 for 70 cars. Even with Spec II, $5 cheaper for the same amount of cars.

In case you're not getting it yet, my argument isn't against what GT5 costs vs. it's content. It's the silly fanboys lying about T10's DLC content pricing & how GT5 is a better deal.

You're comparing 70 cars (and a few tracks) to a fully working game with cars, tracks, music, physics, everything. It's not a straightforward thing you can compare. In order to use those 70 DLC cars you need to have FM3. You don't need anything else for Prologue.

 

[amar212]

In order to use those 70 DLC cars you need to have FM3. You don't need anything else for Prologue.

And let us not forget that in order to ACTUALLY own them in-game, you need to grind more than 100 million (one hunderd million) credits which is doable in aprox. 2 years time by playing around 12-16 hours per day.

Without that, you can "use" them only in Arcade mode which is purely limited to Quick Races vs AI because those cars are not competitive inside any Public Hopper.

And not to mention that purchase of Nurburing GP track is for online purposes only and track does not incorporate itself into single-player carrer by any instance.

And it shows in Hoppers once per decade.

Whole DLC policy and logic behind it in Forza Motorsport 3 is so broken that somebody overthere at T10 deserves a punch in the face at least.

It's the silly fanboys lying about T10's DLC content pricing & how GT5 is a better deal.

McLaren, I do not have to be a silly fanboy to bash whole FM3 DLC clustercrap because as a serious FM3 player and VIP member I'm more than angry about every-single-one decision made by both MS/T10 (I really do not care whose idea was) regarding all design-wise and implementation-wise decisions of DLC content.

It is broken, wrong and made only in order to make as much money possible without true and satisfying benefit for end-player. And if you're FM3 player and you bought DLC content than you know I'm 100% right when I say this.

I really hope that no other developer/publisher will ever do DLC policy as it was done for FM3.

 

[Tenacious D]

And, by the way, Prologue is now $29.99, and you can get it used many places for $20. If T10 ever decides to drop the prices of their packs, even those mostly useless tracks, I might actually get some.

Fourteen 👍 I want to race all models together though, I don't want the game split into two.

Same here! 👍

Oh, and uh, Mac...

It's 10 cars for $5 a pack ($2/a car if you can't do the math) & they have released 70 new cars for $35 which is exactly what I've paid for the amount of new content & is no different from my friend who likes to buy a lot of the songs released for Rock Band each week.

That's a better deal than GT5 originally only having 37 cars & costing $50.

You must either work for the gubmint, or are drinking a lot of that funny water if that's your good math.

Also, Prologue originally cost $40, and as stated, you can't actually play those car packs on their own. And how many of those cars are variations on a theme (aka Skyline clones) and oddities like the Mazda Furai?

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

And let us not forget that in order to ACTUALLY own them in-game, you need to grind more than 100 million (one hunderd million) credits which is doable in aprox. 2 years time by playing around 12-16 hours per day.

Without that, you can "use" them only in Arcade mode which is purely limited to Quick Races vs AI because those cars are not competitive inside any Public Hopper.

And not to mention that purchase of Nurburing GP track is for online purposes only and track does not incorporate itself into single-player carrer by any instance.

And it shows in Hoppers once per decade.

Whole DLC policy and logic behind it in Forza Motorsport 3 is so broken that somebody overthere at T10 deserves a punch in the face at least.

The above is so true.

I was stupid enough to purchase DLC on FM3 and yet hardly own any of the cars. Considering I purchased these with MS points then I should be entitled to own them. The problem for me is unlike FM2 there is little point in re-running single player events. On FM2 this wasn't the case due to the career leaderboards. Also due to the credit glitch the economy on FM3 is a joke and this was the case on FM2.

As for the Nurburgring track this is just a strain on your eyes. The green Fuzzy felt which is supposed to resemble grass is simply shocking.

Some have a problem in admitting that FM3 was a complete cock up in every respect.

I will add that numerous dodgy times remain on the leaderboards which Turn 10 were supposed to remove. This seems to be forgotton because either the problem was too widespread or Turn 10 preferred to make as much money as possible instead of fixing the glitches. Apparently its still possible to purchase a glitched tune. Makes me laugh because this was a problem on FM2 also. I spot a pattern here!

 

[JDMKING13]

And let us not forget that in order to ACTUALLY own them in-game, you need to grind more than 100 million (one hunderd million) credits which is doable in aprox. 2 years time by playing around 12-16 hours per day.

Without that, you can "use" them only in Arcade mode which is purely limited to Quick Races vs AI because those cars are not competitive inside any Public Hopper.

And not to mention that purchase of Nurburing GP track is for online purposes only and track does not incorporate itself into single-player carrer by any instance.

And it shows in Hoppers once per decade.

Whole DLC policy and logic behind it in Forza Motorsport 3 is so broken that somebody overthere at T10 deserves a punch in the face at least.



McLaren, I do not have to be a silly fanboy to bash whole FM3 DLC clustercrap because as a serious FM3 player and VIP member I'm more than angry about every-single-one decision made by both MS/T10 (I really do not care whose idea was) regarding all design-wise and implementation-wise decisions of DLC content.

It is broken, wrong and made only in order to make as much money possible without true and satisfying benefit for end-player. And if you're FM3 player and you bought DLC content than you know I'm 100% right when I say this.

I really hope that no other developer/publisher will ever do DLC policy as it was done for FM3.

This is what Im talking about ^^^ Its just sad anytime you dont agree with Mclaren beloved FM3 you have to be a fanboy What makes me laugh is I like the Forza series i just don't agree with the DLC

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

This is what Im talking about ^^^ Its just sad anytime you dont agree with Mclaren beloved FM3 you have to be a fanboy What makes me laugh is I like the Forza series i just don't agree with the DLC

Yes its a shame we're accused of being fanboys. I've even stated that in my opinion Turn 10 took the crown from PD when they released FM1/2. However they gave this back to PD when they released FM3 without GT5 even having to be released.

Now apparently FM3 sold 2.8 million copies. Mark my words FM4 will struggle to sell 1 million and this is due to many already playing GT5 and the distrust the Forza community has for future Forza projects.

I popped back on FM3 the other day after having a 4 week break from the game. Within 20mins I set a laptime around Old Le Mans in C class in 12th position. Whats this tell you? Answer nobody is really hotlapping anymore because otherwise it wouldn't of been that easy.

 

[Tenacious D]

I was stupid enough to purchase DLC on FM3 and yet hardly own any of the cars. Considering I purchased these with MS points then I should be entitled to own them.

I keep forgetting this. I'm really not interested in grinding for cars I'd be paying actual money for - MS points cost $$ after all. Then again, I haven't even fired up F3 for the entire year except briefly. I guess I'm too much of a GT fanboy to keep from loving all those bugs and issues like the DLC packs.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

...another page of just Forza talk. Hooray.

Say what you want about how GT5P was some value purchase, but I can compare it to every single other GT and see that it wasn't. It was the most expensive demo available on PS3.

TD - Those images don't prove much, though. The Camaro at Seattle does look decent (although GT's lighting is drab almost to the point of depression), but it's not incredibly difficult to accomplish that distance away from the camera. That FM3 shot with the Astra is pretty horrible though, no question. Why would you compare FM2 though? I fail to see the purpose there. The whole issue is that these GT4 models are being recycled and used wholesale in a game that's coming out on the tail-end of 2010. You are being an apologist if you're going to compare them to anything other than the newest competition, because that's what they're actually going to be compared to.

And yes, we probably won't ever see eye to eye on this subject. I feel like the Standards are... acceptable, in motion, in the general image. They will fall apart under even relatively close scrutiny, because they are not built to the standards of the current generation. We can't get proper physical damage in them, they so far haven't shown proper headlights (notice how the WRC Subaru actually illuminates its surroundings, the Standard video Bentley just has the same texture floating a few inches in front of the car), we can't get proper body modifications unless the modelers plan on new models for each variation. It's amazing how often the people shouting "it's not all about the graphics" forget all this.

People can argue "well 200 cars is more than most of the competition"... well, except for the one people most usually target. How convenient. GT's lineup of actual, current-generation car models is less than half of FM3's, and whether or not 200 is a decent number, the vast majority of the models in the game are still last-gen models. The only way I can still look at GT and agree with the claim that it sets the bar for quality in car modeling is to ignore those 800 cars, because while they may use their 4000k polys and current textures to great effect considering how much more sheer firepower other models these days have, the fact is that entire Bentley body is likely composed of less polygons than the wheels suspending a 458 Italia, and that makeup seriously limits it's actual features in the game.

(EDIT) One benefit I'm looking forward to after nights of Prologue online racing with groups of ~10, is that Standards will (hopefully) limit the frame rate issues I'm getting. Seriously, I can reproduce them fairly easily, this has me worried. Also, I've been getting a strange glitch every once in a while (averaging about twice a night) where for a split second my interior view flashes. I'm not entirely sure if it's a lighting issue or otherwise (too quick to tell)... but it's very strange.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

In order to use those 70 DLC cars you need to have FM3. You don't need anything else for Prologue.

And let us not forget that in order to ACTUALLY own them in-game, you need to grind more than 100 million (one hunderd million) credits which is doable in aprox. 2 years time by playing around 12-16 hours per day.

Without that, you can "use" them only in Arcade mode which is purely limited to Quick Races vs AI because those cars are not competitive inside any Public Hopper.

And not to mention that purchase of Nurburing GP track is for online purposes only and track does not incorporate itself into single-player carrer by any instance.

And it shows in Hoppers once per decade.

Whole DLC policy and logic behind it in Forza Motorsport 3 is so broken that somebody overthere at T10 deserves a punch in the face at least.



McLaren, I do not have to be a silly fanboy to bash whole FM3 DLC clustercrap because as a serious FM3 player and VIP member I'm more than angry about every-single-one decision made by both MS/T10 (I really do not care whose idea was) regarding all design-wise and implementation-wise decisions of DLC content.

It is broken, wrong and made only in order to make as much money possible without true and satisfying benefit for end-player. And if you're FM3 player and you bought DLC content than you know I'm 100% right when I say this.

I really hope that no other developer/publisher will ever do DLC policy as it was done for FM3.

Wow, I was considering getting a 360 and FM3 once I had the money, but that just sounds like a terrible deal. Glad I found this out ahead of time.

 

[witham]

Wow, I was considering getting a 360 and FM3 once I had the money, but that just sounds like a terrible deal. Glad I found this out ahead of time.

Me too I found out about this from a friend, Its such a rip off

 

[Griffith500]

Why are there so many GT apologists?

Kaz and co screwed up. That's it. He aimed too high and admitted it.

He should have released a fully functioning GT5 2 years ago (Fall '08) with 100+ premium cars and 10-15 tracks with full online and full features. Then he should have released DLC packs of cars and tracks along the way. If you don't have online then you can buy these packs in bundles at the store for around $20 to install to your HDD.

Nobody wants to wait 4 years for a new game. Even Flight Simulator games come out bi-yearly. And they have to model the entire world not just a few cars.

I understand it takes longer to create games with this gen's level of detail, but expecting your fans to wait 4+ years for the next game is wrong. We are owed an apology.

Are you calling me an apologist? I'm one of the first in line to give criticism where I feel it is due; I don't care if you're the Pope or some scumbag civil servant (I jest) - this is the internet, and I will criticise. Although I prefer to inject (a hopefully new) perspective instead.
I just hate it when people are blinded by their own self-importance (irony-shield: activated) that they can't see that this is just a game, made by human beings, who make mistakes. When was the last time you publicly apologised for a mistake you made, where other people expected to rely upon your judgment? More to the point, do you rely upon a game? I don't.

By the way, the Microsoft Flight Simulator series has been going for nigh on three decades; the vast majority of the data can be re-used (in one form or other; the world hasn't really gone anywhere in the last thirty years) and any changes can be applied as required. So the two years' work (content-wise, excluding aircraft) is based solely on small changes, not necessarily ground-up work - and the gap between versions has not been consistent at all - and, at any rate, they've never represented the whole world; not even close (unless you count "The World" as "The USA" or "Selected cities in Europe" - or rather, just their airports and selected scenery ). Perhaps you meant a different game?


Incidentally, if I'm a proponent of PD; surely that makes you an opponent?

Kaz has admitted his mistake; will you admit yours, that is, of having too high an expectation of this game?

----

GT5 Prologue was not a demonstration; it was a prologue. Clue's in the name, I suppose. A public demo is usually of a near-final version; GT5 was an entirely different concept to a GT game proper (although later updates brought it marginally closer.) The Time-Trial demo was just that; a demo. Two cars, one track, limited features - no cost. A demo.

It might well have been "cheeky" of Sony / PD; but, in the end, who went out and bought it? Prologue (both games) would be up there as an example of the most content I've ever seen in a "demo"; except it wasn't free so it doesn't count - no matter how much "glory" one tries to attribute to it.


Oh, and, fifteen!

 

[Piotrov]

Me too I found out about this from a friend, Its such a rip off

I as well was thinking of picking up the 360 just for FM3 however from what I have heard and seen (not just here but all over the net) Im not too impressed.

Altho I must say that even Gran Turismo will have its problems no doubt.. Question is how will they be handled, if at all....

 

[Spagetti69]

100 million earned by doing 12 hrs a day for 2 years.
Wow that's some lifespan in that forza game.

Playing the how you look at it card, quite often played on these forums.

 

[yellowclone]

You already said it does.
How do I know it's the final product? Because PD had 5 years to polish up GT4 models and make them look as good as possible. After 5 years they finally showed them to us, and 5 months before release, they wouldn't drop that bomb unless the cars were as good looking as possible.

It doesn't bother me. I just like pointing out things that are odd to me.

Once again, speculation is being passed as fact on this forum . Face the FACT, you don't know for sure that it is.

Anyway, it is obvious that we will never agree on this subject, so I am done with this discussion. Excuse me, I am going to play with the standard cars now (GT4), and enjoy it.

 

[kingcars]

Now frankly, though the Forza cars have more polygons and a deeper color pallette, they don't look real. To me, the GT4 images do have an uncanny resemblance to real life. I could have pulled some truly ugly looking Forza 2 images, as evidently it does almost nothing to images to shine them up, but F3 is the acid test, a game which is the very pinnacle of non-Gran Turismo graphics, and FAR more advanced than GT4, and the 360 than the PS2.

Forza 3's lighting engine is total junk, which is what causes the cars to not look "real." The actual car models are vastly superior. 👍

 

[Captain Roh]

moderator!! Come quick!!!

 

[Exorcet]

IMO, Forza's DLC is not ideal, I usually get DLC for 1-2 cars out of the pack (but on occasion, 75+% are good). But on needing to earn credits to buy them in game, I don't blame the DLC itself but the outdated notion of making career mode the center of a game. Online should be all cars all upgrades (espcially by nature of Forza's terrible race options, the only way to make good races in Forza is a private lobby) from day one. This should be standard for all games, I hope KY agrees with me.

On another note though, I must admit that the only reason I spend on Forza is because I won a huge amount of MS points from a tournament, all of Forza's DLC didn't deplete half of my winnings yet. I don't think I would have purchased anything if I actually had to pay.

But basically, GT5 shouldn't have pay-for DLC after 5 years. Releasing it two years ago with free DLC would have been a good idea.

On the photos on the previous page, lighting (so Forza) seems to overshadow the model completely IMO.

 

[eSZee]

Just found some old videos that I didn't get to watch on GTTV.

WHy didn't you get to watch them?
Got rid of the game?