Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"
- Thread starter LP670-4 SV
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- trk29
Been playing GT5P tonight and I never noticed it but I was changing around from car to car in the garage and I picked the Ford GT and then when I picked the Mustang it said premium, and I went back to the GT and several other cars and none of them said premium.
I don't see any difference in the cars in the garage or on the track but I wonder why PD calls this car premium and why no one has really mentioned this before unless I missed the post. Or unless nobody really noticed it.
I don't see any difference in the cars in the garage or on the track but I wonder why PD calls this car premium and why no one has really mentioned this before unless I missed the post. Or unless nobody really noticed it.
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This is for people who said that outsourcing would bring the quality down. These are good 3d models, wont you trade the standard ones for this? GT5 could had 800 o more great models instead 200 (and probably in less development time).
Kaz really made a mistake without hiring more 3d modellers or outsourcing the hardcore work and do polishing inside Polyphony.
Kaz really made a mistake without hiring more 3d modellers or outsourcing the hardcore work and do polishing inside Polyphony.
To be honest, the more I think about it, the more I wish PD had simply given us 200 + premium cars and left it at that, rather than shoving in 800 half-arsed inferior quality models from GT4 for the sake of saying "We got double the cars of Forza". So what if they had less than FM3?
At least they would have been of a very high quality and this standard vs premium thing wouldn't have spoiled it. I mean, 80% of cars not having a cockpit view? That's just half-arsed imo and not something I would expect from PD.
At least they would have been of a very high quality and this standard vs premium thing wouldn't have spoiled it. I mean, 80% of cars not having a cockpit view? That's just half-arsed imo and not something I would expect from PD.
- 8,725
I'm not denying that it's a "legitimate" term, I just question its usefulness in the real world, other than rallying enthusiasm for the next batch of games. "Why should I get this game? Oh it's second generation? Golly, gee whizz!" [etc.]
Also, you're absolutely wrong: there is no fuzzy line with hardware generations, especially since we're talking about consoles.
Why are you quoting stuff from the media? You know where those guys get their info
No, I was talking about evaluating a game, too (we call them reviews in the real world) - the fact that games are found in multiple genres should give you some idea of what I was talking about.
No idea where you got this from! I think you're making stuff up to suit your own needs now!
I was questioning your evaluation of PGR4 on its own merits - I had no idea that the standard cars were part of the subtext of that post you made. I must say, it makes a whole lot more sense now! You were just crying about the Standards not jumping high enough and bringing the bar down with them, landing all awkward on their left ankles and having to retire from irrecoverable damage (I know how analogy works too!! Me so clever!)See, that's the benefit of plain English - no chasing round the houses looking for hidden subtext or encrypted bull****.
Are you a child?
Strittan
Premium
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- Strittan
Couldn't have said it better myself. I think 200 is well enough, and I'd feel even better if the standards weren't in.
This is Kaz and his PD in a nutshell though isn't it? They've never been very smart the way they do announcements. A couple of good examples are drag racing, which they've mentioned since GT2 but has never really made it to the game, and the online mode they promised in GT4 long before it was released but then was scrapped.
And this time around we was told there will be 1000 cars in GT5, then it turns out there were only 200+.
Why not keep everything a secret and then "BAM!", out of nothing: "Gran Turismo 5 will be released world wide the next month. 200 cars detailed down down to the wheel nuts, more than 20 tracks, damage, weather, day/night transition, up to 16 players online, NASCAR, WRC, Super GT, Karting, skid marks, reverse lights, high/low beams and car customization and tuning".
I don't know about you, but if I had no clue about there being a GT5 being worked on and then PD makes an announcement like that, it would get my heart pumping for sure.
- 6,804
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The more I think about it, the more I arrive at a similar conclusion too.
I prefer quality and consistency overall, we went though a lower car count in GT3 over GT2 too and GT3 proved to be a good game despite that.
Seems like they lacked the courage to go for purely quality only, instead giving in to being able to show off big numbers or bigger numbers than the opposition could manage.
Increasing scale or quantity to impress is to me always a sign of weakness.
I can understand it from a marketing perspective in a sense but I bet the lack of interior view and damage, etc. on the vast majority of cars will bring more harm long term than a short term sales pitch accentuating car count.
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shirakawaa
Premium
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- GTP_shirakawaa
Anyway, actually I think there might be significantly more than 200 Premium cars if we include doubles. I can't believe/accept for example that each single NASCAR car in the list will be part of the count. In my view there are 4 (slightly) different bodies from the respective carmakers (we still haven't seen them all in the game) for the 2010 season, then all the (possibly 43) different paintjobs.
SuperCobraJet
(Banned)
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- SuperCobraJet1
The more you view what there is to view at this stage, the more apparent the discrepancy becomes.
This is also, apparently the reason why PD has not shown the Premiums and Standards racing together.
However, as far as the finished game, I don't see how with the diversity of Premium models and numerical differences, it would be logically possible to keep them seperated.
Dravonic's corvette example tells me they are working on the Standards to try and narrow the gap to the greatest extent possible, with the what time is left.
I hope at TGS more will be revealed, and there will be something positive about this.
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- Croatia
Idea of GT5 being forced to have more cars than FM3 - and that PD was forced upon something else - have to be the most ridicoluos idea in past time.
I really will spit some beans here because this discussion is really getting ridiciluos, and tell that whole thing about Standard/Premium was already known internally even before 2009, when PSP game was being finished and when decision was made to made cars interchangable for those who are fans of the series and have invested their time in Gtpsp. Also, PD wanted to have strong Used Cars section in GT4 because of history of the series and wish to continue the whole Used Cars philisophy of older models.
I made a statement about that in my Wind thread, clearly stating that many cars wil come in form from GT4.
In GT5 you will have no need to use one single Standard car for any gameplay purposes, all licenses and Special races (Missions, Event Tests, Manufactorers tests, etc..) will be run with Premiums and Premiums are the foundatiin cars of GT5.
Standard models are bonus, they will be almost exclusively represented through Used Car section and you can play the game without any know of their existance.
But all above also does not change that GT5 will have 1000 cars on disposal for those intrested. However, it has nothing to do with any other game, PD being forced to do anything or any similar nonsense. It is a deliberate decision, executed in order to enhance gameplay and series heritage and to allow wider scope of the game.
If all of you really think that is bad or wrong or gamebreaking from perspective of the actual scope and diversity of the overall content and reach of the game, than I really do not know what to tell.
I really will spit some beans here because this discussion is really getting ridiciluos, and tell that whole thing about Standard/Premium was already known internally even before 2009, when PSP game was being finished and when decision was made to made cars interchangable for those who are fans of the series and have invested their time in Gtpsp. Also, PD wanted to have strong Used Cars section in GT4 because of history of the series and wish to continue the whole Used Cars philisophy of older models.
I made a statement about that in my Wind thread, clearly stating that many cars wil come in form from GT4.
In GT5 you will have no need to use one single Standard car for any gameplay purposes, all licenses and Special races (Missions, Event Tests, Manufactorers tests, etc..) will be run with Premiums and Premiums are the foundatiin cars of GT5.
Standard models are bonus, they will be almost exclusively represented through Used Car section and you can play the game without any know of their existance.
But all above also does not change that GT5 will have 1000 cars on disposal for those intrested. However, it has nothing to do with any other game, PD being forced to do anything or any similar nonsense. It is a deliberate decision, executed in order to enhance gameplay and series heritage and to allow wider scope of the game.
If all of you really think that is bad or wrong or gamebreaking from perspective of the actual scope and diversity of the overall content and reach of the game, than I really do not know what to tell.
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- Spazza
Wow you've played the game already? How did you get it so early?!!
Reims, we know that 80% of cars don't have cockpit view. It was confirmed by Kaz himself. We also know that the standards won't look anywhere near as good as the premiums, confirmed by Kaz and also judging from the very few clips we've seen. Is what I have said false?
Exactly. This is one of those cases where quality has been sacrificed for quantity. I mean, 200 + cars is PLENTY. More cars doesn't always mean BETTER. Now that these 800 are in, I suppose I'll use them but I won't be all that keen on doing so. More out of necessity than anything else.
BTW, have these 800 cars had their physics, performance stats, etc updated or simply just transferred as seen from GT4?
BTW, that announcement would make me very happy. This 800 standard cars is just BS imo.
Absolutely. To me it is a sign of weakness and uncertainty, too. It's almost like they thought "Fudge, how are we going to compete with FM3 line-up of 500 cars including new DLC stuff, Porsche, new Astons......I know! We'll thrown in 800 GT4 models! They'll look pants in comparison to the premiums, won't have any interior views but so what? GT is GT!"
Because as far as the 200 + line-up goes, it was pretty weak in comparison to Forza's imo and I think that's why they decided to add these other cars.
However, I would have still been happy enough with those 200 +, even though the list may be weaker than Forza's imho.
It's one thing to have faith. It's another to put your fingers in both ears and sing "Lalalalala, just wait for it's release. Kaz is just playing with us, all cars will have cockpit views, I just know it, lalalala"
Particularly because it has been confirmed that they won't. No ifs or buts, they won't. Simple as that. To me, it looks incomplete. Now, if on release day we get 1,000 cars with cockpit views, I will personally come on here and profess my complete moronity in front of everyone and how next time I should keep my stupid mouth shut. However, I don't think that will be the case.
SuperCobraJet
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- SuperCobraJet1
I have to agree, I don't believe this is relevant at all.
As to the rest of this, I think you would have to admit this concept is a radical departure from previous GTs, and presents some unique questions and concerns.
If I understand your comments, you are implying that you can proceed through the whole game with premium cars, in an unintegrated fashion if desired.
Does that mean you will not be in any "mixed" races with the Standards?
I do find it difficult to believe 800 cars are just a "bonus".
Universally, I think the biggest area of concern here is the percieved inherent negative effect of the contrast between Premiums and Standards when mixed together.
This would indicate another radical departure, since a used car has always been the starting point previously, unless a car is obtained through license tests.
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- 8,725
Thank you for sharing your insight. I actually remember now reading about the split in one of your winds, and that's probably why I was so skeptical of the 1000 car figure in the first place (regarding cockpit view etc.) I keep forgetting about the link with GT
SP, too...Good, so PD are at least aware that the Standards might look a bit out of place, and are taking actions to avoid a potential clash of "style" in the final game đź‘Ť
For the record, I've always thought of the Standards as "GT Classic", as per the original GT:HD specification, so I still consider them a bonus.
Strittan
Premium
- 4,130
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- Strittan
I'd like to think they're even less than a bonus. Just something to keep the car count up.
I really hope for the game's sake that the standard cars will not be represented in career mode. It would just look funny to mix two types of cars in a race, of which the level of detail are lightyears apart.
It was possible to make a career mode in GT3, which had less than 200 cars if I recall correctly, so why not in GT5?
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- The Netherlands
If you aren't aware of any inside knowledge or all the ins and outs of whether offering Standard cars was intentional and planned from the start deliberately ( and I believe you they were, although one source is no source in journalism ) it isn't actually that ridiculous or nonsensical to assume this might be the case.
In fact it's no shame wanting to outdo the competition by whatever means, forced or not, although if this Standard/Premium was deliberate and planned totally unrelated to any pressure what so ever my reservation about offering these cars which do make the game as a whole inconsistent in my opinion still stands whether I should regard them as a bonus or not or use them or not.
If they were clear themselves about what the differences would imply early on I would have more readily accepted them for what they are, since the full extend was only made clear very recently after years of silence ( and it's too easy to claim I told you so, since not too long ago if you dared to ask whether Standard cars would have interior view for example you were the subject of mockery as interior view was related to damage as opposed to cockpit view, how times have changed ).
The fact they always talked about 950 to a 1000 cars did suggest to most here ( let alone the casual observer ) the differences weren't that large to be completely categorised into a different type of modelling ( by upgrading old assets ).
So even if the choice to do it could be defended and appreciated, the way they explained it by keeping schtum is misleading in my view.
They weren't lying ofcourse but they were very economical with the truth.
It depends on how you define "weak". I'm not sure how many cars are in F3 (I have a few of the DLC packs, but not all of them), but it sure as hell doesn't seem like 500.
Realistically speaking, most players will only ever use Premium cars. Not because they're Premium, but just because those are the cars that best fit the required racing. There won't really be a need to drive any of the others except for nostalgia or just wanting to drive a particular car. Look at the car list.. it's not like we're lacking in selection amongst the Premium cars. I'm perfectly fine having "only" 200 cars, because those will end up being the cars I actually want to drive.
