Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[RedSuinit]

Where exactly did he say that he thinks it does? He said it doesn't look bad.

Was wondering the same.

Would you believe about as fast as I can talk?

Wait... you probably would

Clocked at 120 wpm last time I tested but that was with quite a few errors.



That's a very forgiving picture, small, dark, slightly blurry...

Here's a fairer look

Dang dude. I knew you must move like lightning with a keyboard, because if I tried to type out the same posts that you do (in almost all of your posts I might add) I wouldn't have time for anything else. I think I can type at ~60 WPM.

I still think it looks good.

 

[JDMKING13]

I saw that too, and that's one of those times when I think reasonable implication says that if a large dichotomy in visual quality was going to exist, it would be mentioned more specifically or else you really aren't "telling". I mean look at what we have now and there are still those that hold out that the cars will be somehow upped to Gt5p quality by release. It's pretty obvious (especially to a company like PD who have been through this game a few times) that THAT line at GC isn't really telling us what it turns out to be.

I think the part that says "read: cars we have seen in GT4 before" was not in the official statement but rather a paraphrase to sort of clarify why it was there and suggest that THAT is why it's mentioned, NOT anything about visual quality.

In hindsite it's easy to put the pieces together and see through the wool, just like in hindsite it's easy to see what amars winds were saying, but again, what I was saying is, in reality, within reason, PD didn't act sufficiently to set expectationts.

Basically, now we see it and say "yeah they said it right there" but be honest with yourself, back then when you saw that, considering what PD had showed up until then and how conspicuosly absent any detailed info on this rather huge news was present, wouldn't you say that's not "really" telling us standards will look lower quality but more like "only some cars will have damage and interiors - read all cars will look the same from outside until they are damaged at least"?

Basically I am saying that was somewhat of a lie of omission and we were not really (reasonably) told until now.

That and also GC last year was very late in the game, when I say early on, it would have had to be pretty far back in the game to really be effective.

Well thats cool take it how you want, but this was known for sometime IMO and reading 30 pages of Amar thread about the winds the standard car issued was discussed heavily.People are saying the same thing they said a year ago. It just amazes me when people say PD lied and this is all new

 

[CoolColJ]

Found a larger version - Well the Bentley is definitely a Standard as shown on the trailer

 

[Devedander]

Well thats cool take it how you want, but this was known for sometime IMO and reading 30 pages of Amar thread about the winds the standard car issued was discussed heavily.People are saying the same thing they said a year ago. It just amazes me when people say PD lied and this is all new

I wasn't too deep in that amar thread so I may have missed all that... even so, I would say whether you could read into the truth or not, PD really should have gone a lot further with detail to make it clear.

And even so, I also say GC was late in the game, when I say early in the game I was thinking 4 years ago or so, anytime after that and I think expectations were pretty much set.

 

[RedSuinit]

Found a larger version - Well the Bentley is definitely a Standard as shown on the trailer

What are your thoughts about said picture? What do you suppose this means? You posted it, so you must think it means something significant.

 

[eSZee]

Well thats cool take it how you want, but this was known for sometime IMO and reading 30 pages of Amar thread about the winds the standard car issued was discussed heavily.People are saying the same thing they said a year ago. It just amazes me when people say PD lied and this is all new

To be fair, omitting to mention something for 3-5 years is as bad as lying in my book. They said GTHD would have different levels of car detail and as far as I'm aware, that's the last time they mentioned anything. For the past how many years, there was no sign at all of standard cars. What Amar said is fine and dandy, but going by the consensus, he's not PD so nothing he says is official.
I wasn't around when any of this happened so standard cars were a shock to me at first. Getting over that and the notion that customization of standard cars will PROBABLY be nothing more than GT4 level, I've come to peace with it.
That's my view on it so please hold yourself back and not jump at my throat.

What are your thoughts about said picture? What do you suppose this means? You posted it, so you must think it means something significant.

My question is whether anyone has GTHD and if the bentley speed8 was a driveable car and if it had a cockpit view. I'm assuming NO to all 3.

 

[RedSuinit]

To be fair, omitting to mention something for 3-5 years is as bad as lying in my book. They said GTHD would have different levels of car detail and as far as I'm aware, that's the last time they mentioned anything. For the past how many years, there was no sign at all of standard cars. What Amar said is fine and dandy, but going by the consensus, he's not PD so nothing he says is official.
I wasn't around when any of this happened so standard cars were a shock to me at first. Getting over that and the notion that customization of standard cars will PROBABLY be nothing more than GT4 level, I've come to peace with it.
That's my view on it so please hold yourself back and not jump at my throat.



My question is whether anyone has GTHD and if the bentley speed8 was a driveable car and if it had a cockpit view. I'm assuming NO to all 3.

Yes
No
None of the cars had cockpit view in GTHD.

 

[eSZee]

Thanks. Could you see through the windows? The evo and the speed 8 look to have tinted windows but I saw a vid showing the evo's interior.

 

[JDMKING13]

To be fair, omitting to mention something for 3-5 years is as bad as lying in my book. They said GTHD would have different levels of car detail and as far as I'm aware, that's the last time they mentioned anything. For the past how many years, there was no sign at all of standard cars. What Amar said is fine and dandy, but going by the consensus, he's not PD so nothing he says is official.
I wasn't around when any of this happened so standard cars were a shock to me at first. Getting over that and the notion that customization of standard cars will PROBABLY be nothing more than GT4 level, I've come to peace with it.
That's my view on it so please hold yourself back and not jump at my throat.
My question is whether anyone has GTHD and if the bentley speed8 was a driveable car and if it had a cockpit view. I'm assuming NO to all 3.

Not jumping down any throat, all this was last year info. Im a GTP junnkie so i stay up on my info, I'm sorry you missed it though, again this was not directed at you. I posted this because i remember when this topic first came up and how hot it was. Now it comes up again (1year later) and people acting like this is out of the air brand new In the end I'm going to have a great time with GT5 standard cars or premium it doesn't matter bring on GT5.

 

[Dravonic]

Not jumping down any throat, all this was last year info. Im a GTP junnkie so i stay up on my info, I'm sorry you missed it though, again this was not directed at you. I posted this because i remember when this topic first came up and how hot it was. Now it comes up again (1year later) and people acting like this is out of the air brand new In the end I'm going to have a great time with GT5 standard cars or premium it doesn't matter bring on GT5.

It is brand new. Last year we only discussed a few things about the standard cars. Mostly the damage, a tiny bit about looks. I remember it quite well actually. Nobody ever saw anything PD said or showed that indicated standard cars we direct GT4 ports with no cockpit.

If you're affirming PD did say such a thing, then please show me.

 

[JDMKING13]

It is brand new. Last year we only discussed a few things about the standard cars. Mostly the damage, a tiny bit about looks. I remember it quite well actually. Nobody ever saw anything PD said or showed that indicated standard cars we direct GT4 ports with no cockpit.

If you're affirming PD did say such a thing, then please show me.

This was also on the official website then they took it down and put PSP GT info up.

August 18, GamesCom, held in Cologne, Germany: Gran Turismo 5 has been announced! Here is the latest information on the game design:

■ models included
1,000 vehicles
170 Premium new models (full interior modeling, the interior corresponds to vehicle damage)
830 kinds of standard model (some are from Gran Turismo 4 that have been carried over to GT5) [Read: Cars we have seen in GT4 before ]

■ Courses
60 courses confirmed with 20 or more to be revealed

■ physical simulation of vehicles
Physics system simulation is brand new
Represented is full fall in vehicles [possibly rollover]
Damage representation (reproduced in full by real-time collision deformation)
faithfully reproducing the behavior of electric cars, i.e. Prius, Insight, hybrid cars and the latest Tesla model

■ Arcade Mode
Single Race
2 player battle

■ GT Mode
World Map
My Garage
Car Dealer
Tuning Shop (parts, tires)
Car Washes/Oil Change
Race Championship (Series system, point system)
License Test

■ Online
Open Lobby
Text / Voice Chat
Private rooms
Online Photo Album
Online Replay Album
YouTube replay output

■ Photo Mode
Photo Drive (Circuit)
Photo stage (Stage Photo mode only)

■ Gran Turismo TV
Video output to a PSP or PSP Go®
Progressive Download
Improved user interface
Continuous Play for videos

■ Museums
The Gran Turismo 5 Prologue version, + more information at TGS

■ Sound
Custom soundtracks (Use songs from your PS3 hard-drive)
Dolby Digital 5.1 and 7.1

■ User Interface
The Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, and the same design concept. The icons change color
Able to track the movement of Cockpit Camera interface (confirmed in full 3-D. The camera can be fully manipulated and you can opt to have your head tracked by the PSEye)

If you read Amar thread about the winds on page 70 to 100 talks about the standard car situation it honestly is the same talk as this thread for those 30 pages

Here are some quotes from that thread on the standard situation

If 830 cars are from gt4, that means only 170 cars built in the last 5 years (including the nascars and wrc and race cars). If this is correct, wont it be a bit like playing a game from 5 years ago, example honda accord will be the 5 year old one as they will probably favour the exotic cars to make up the non race car part of the 170. Im concerned.

1000 cars (all with cockpit and maybe damage)(Ok, so there might be damage!), 170 (with damages also in cockpit)(Guaranteed to have damage as you use the interior cam) 830 (with cockpit and exterior damage, not damage in cockpit and seen since gt4)(Inside view+outside damage) (Seems contradictory.) the 170 are premium don't know what stand for maybe pay for it.

Ok, IF there will be only 170 cars with cockpit. Then we can all agree with the sad fact that Forza 3 has beaten us, right?

Another question though. Why would a demo, specific for a game event, contain so much features? I bet it is the full game specs we got after all... 👎

BTW, no wonder there has been so quite on the news front for so long, and no wonder KY looked so nervous at E3! They're probably embarrassed...

I think it would be best, for everyone, to just wait for more information instead of jumping to hasty conclusions. 💡 All this speculation is giving me a headache!

Even if it will be only 170 new cars, the cars from gt4 will feel totally different
with the new physics.

Forza3 has 400 interiors, developed in 2 years. And from the 170 we already have ~ 75.
Forza3 has 100 layouts, GT5 60.
These are the numbers, but a game is more than numbers...

Yea, the IGN article's writer seemed to agree with my theory (shared by many) that the 170 will have damage viewable from the interior and 830 will have the damage viewable only from the exterior views. Or something along those lines. It is just TOO unlikely, unbelievable, and unimaginable, that PD would release a game with only 17% on the cars having damage, or only 17% of the cars having an in-car view.

Also, to those complaining that 830 of the cars are coming from GT4, SO WHAT? If PD didn't re-use those 830 (which by the way, there weren't that many in GT4), you would then be complaining that "they had bla bla bla car in GT4, why isn't it in GT5?" And for those who are new to the world of videogames in general, the cars from GT4 will have GT5 quality graphics. You would think that would be obvious but I guess we have to spell it out for you since it wasn't explicitly stated in the Press Release on the Japanese site.

All from Amar thread. Last quote Aug 18 2009 6:44 PM

 

[Tenacious D]

That's a very forgiving picture, small, dark, slightly blurry...

Here's a fairer look

(piccie snip)

I still don't see why people think this is so bad. I see this in Forza 2 in some models. You look longways along curves, and you can see polygon artifacts. In fact, I think I see this in F3 too, since car models were pretty much just incorporated.

These don't look like PS2 shots, no matter how ugly you think they are in comparison. If there are two classes of LMP cars, which it seems there may well be, I doubt I'd notice until I went into Photo Mode and started doing shots like Deve linked to. But I'd still save them.

I know people look at GT4 on PS2, and say, "How can you play that ugly game?" But I say, "How can you not appreciate something this unbelievable?" Heck, I still play GT4. Even with the old primitive physics and graphics, it still plays and looks good to me. And the wealth of cars and tracks are still unequaled. Watching replays at 60fps, I don't see any polygons, I just see superb car models in poetic motion.

I think mostly, this argument is an indication of how spoiled we are. We have a game which is 20% gold and 80% silver. Or let's even say platinum. "How can you like a game which is 80% padded with silver?! That is so CHEAP!"

Anyway, Happy 4th for you fellow yanks. I'm off. 👍

God bless America, and us all on this third rock from the sun.

 

[Devedander]

I think mostly, this argument is an indication of how spoiled we are. We have a game which is 20% gold and 80% silver. Or let's even say platinum. "How can you like a game which is 80% padded with silver?! That is so CHEAP!"

Look back at my recent WOT and I explained why it's not really fair to say my bag of gold has bonus silver in it, but rather "Why is my bag of 1000 pieces of gold made up of only 200 pieces of gold and 800 pieces of silver?"

@JDM I think of those quote you posted only the top one even hints at the consideration the cars will be more or less direct ports and none of them really says anything about graphical level... I think most of that debate was about freatures that would be availabe in them with the assumption that they would be modeled up to GT5 standards at least from outside views. So basically damage and cockpits have been well known for quite some time, but an overall exterior lower quality to the point of appearing to be direct ports of GT4 assets into the GT5 engine is not something that was expected or really considered.

 

[gtracedriver]

People should stop posting a video grab pic. They will release sooner or later and hopefully some video, trailers too

 

[chromatic9]

I wouldn't call the info that appeared on the Japanese website as conclusive information.

I remember that day. Many were pissed at Sony's no-show at gamescom. Seems they canceled. Amar posted the link to GT5 info that just appeared on the Japanese site. This was removed shortly after. Then we had native Japanese people struggling to translate it. How this is clear for US and Europe's fanbase?

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5-game-features-announced/

After days reading the saved web page

■ models included
1,000 vehicles
170 Premium new models (full interior modeling, the interior corresponds to vehicle damage)
830 kinds of standard model (some are from Gran Turismo 4 that have been carried over to GT5) [Read: Cars we have seen in GT4 before ]

"Some" are from GT4. What 100? 200? 500? What are the rest? It doesn't say.

Full interior modeling could imply that others have partial.

How would could we be sure 830 cars would just be from previous GT games back then?

How people say this is clear info from a poorly worded Japanese page that lasted hours with differing translations from forum posters is crazy.

They should've come clean at gamescom and showed that the standard cars are from past games and 170 would be GT5P standard or above and these are only drivable with a dashboard view.

For me, I could see from prologue, KY's interview just before the launch of GT5P and the Aug 2009 midnight link what the likely situation was.

It'll be interesting to see what the wider GT audience outside a few thousand forum dwellers expect. I don't even expect gtplanet member base to take that Aug 2009 with complete confidence or even know about it. It doesn't explain much and leaves more questions.

What's disappointing is PD knew they'd have around 200 cars completed since finishing up prologue. I'm guessing that they feel that 130 more cars will do for GT5 and they didn't want to employ more.

If the few hundred thousand to a million people will be disappointed but buy it anyway and the 7 million couldn't tell the difference or care and buy it then I suppose so but how much would it cost to double the car modelers? 2-3 million in wages, equipment, travel etc? We could have 500 cars and a good selection for everyone. But this game already costs 60million and 4.5-5 years in the making. Is 5 years and a little over 200 cars enough?

If PD carry on this way then in 10 years time they'll have around 700 cars completed

 

[mr_VOLCANO]

Online replay album Thats something I have really missed on gt5p! 👍 Dont know if its confirmed earlyer but its first time I hear about it.

 

[TeamStig]

I still don't see why people think this is so bad. I see this in Forza 2 in some models. You look longways along curves, and you can see polygon artifacts. In fact, I think I see this in F3 too, since car models were pretty much just incorporated.

These don't look like PS2 shots, no matter how ugly you think they are in comparison. If there are two classes of LMP cars, which it seems there may well be, I doubt I'd notice until I went into Photo Mode and started doing shots like Deve linked to. But I'd still save them.

I know people look at GT4 on PS2, and say, "How can you play that ugly game?" But I say, "How can you not appreciate something this unbelievable?" Heck, I still play GT4. Even with the old primitive physics and graphics, it still plays and looks good to me. And the wealth of cars and tracks are still unequaled. Watching replays at 60fps, I don't see any polygons, I just see superb car models in poetic motion.

This has been my argument all along. Lighting and the way objects reflect off the car models is what makes a racing game look realistic, and in my opinion PD mastered this on the PS2 with GT4. This is why I believe that although the GT4 car models are obviously less detailed and pale in polygon count compared to FM3's, they still look more realistic because the colors aren't oversaturated and cartoony, and the sheetmetal doesn't resemble plastic. Call me crazy, but played on an HD display GT4 nearly passes for next-gen in my opinion.

 

[Lucas]

I know people look at GT4 on PS2, and say, "How can you play that ugly game?" But I say, "How can you not appreciate something this unbelievable?" Heck, I still play GT4. Even with the old primitive physics and graphics, it still plays and looks good to me. And the wealth of cars and tracks are still unequaled..

Same here, except for the part of "ugly game". I had one of my friends come home and play GT4. While he mentioned that GT5 looked much better, judging from screenshots of the game, he did reckoned that the game looked very good. I do think that the game looks great. However, when compared to Forza 3 and what we have seen of GT5, it is obvious that the game's graphics aren't that amazing. But whenever I forget about those two games, GT4's graphics continue to look great to me.

I have said it before, but I will say it again. I'm not bothered by any means by the graphic differences between the cars. What bothers me is that the cars were given unequal treatment, and that for some reason bugs me. I would have rather have 1000 Standard cars than 200 Premium and 800 Standard. Yes, it won't make sense to anyone who isn't me, but that difference between the cars that bugs me is not anymore, and the absence of that would make me enjoy the game much more.

 

[G.T.Ace]

"Some" are from GT4. What 100? 200? 500? What are the rest? It doesn't say.

GTPSP, not all the Standard cars we have seen already are in GT4.

 

[steve30x]

That's a very forgiving picture, small, dark, slightly blurry...

Here's a fairer look

Thats what all the moaning is about? Thats a whole lot better than GT4 cars. Its not as good as Prologues cars but its not bad at all. Its good enough for me.

 

[Exorcet]

Well at this point, the problem is said to be this:

According to all the info PD/KY have given, it sounded 95% likely that the above picture should look like this:

I don't exactly agree, but it seems like the reason behind the disapproval over stnd cars is not the actual look, but lack of warning/explanation as to what they would be.

 

[kingcars]

Lol, sorry, it was a sarcastic remark in response to a sarcastic remark. I was just messing around. But JDM just made us all look somewhat silly. It looks like it was explained to us a long time ago, and people missed it continuing to sew wild fantasies, creating over-exaggerated expectations.

Oh whoops, sorry about that. I apologize for the misunderstanding. Me = fail. 👎

 

[steve30x]

I highly doubt PD would be able to make the car look like that as seen as its a real life picture of the car and the PS3 wouldnt be able to do graphics that life like. Yes the premium cars get close but not that close.

 

[Exorcet]

Well, there is no premium model of the Oreca Audi, so the real photo was the best I could do. Still, the premiums are pretty close.

http://www.threespeech.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/GT74.jpg

I do agree with you that the stnd car looks very good next to the real one IMO though.

EDIT-Did not notice the first picture was zoomed out, so to not stretch the page 30 miles wide, I'll make it a link.

 

[Dravonic]

This was also on the official website then they took it down and put PSP GT info up.

■ models included
1,000 vehicles
170 Premium new models (full interior modeling, the interior corresponds to vehicle damage)
830 kinds of standard model (some are from Gran Turismo 4 that have been carried over to GT5) [Read: Cars we have seen in GT4 before ]


If you read Amar thread about the winds on page 70 to 100 talks about the standard car situation it honestly is the same talk as this thread for those 30 pages

I'll use this translation since it's more accurate:

The announcements are as follows:

Cars
-1000 makes/models
-170 premium models (with interiors and damage support)
-830 standard models (compatible models taken from GT4)

Translators Note: I interpret this as having 170 models with interiors and damage, and 830 models that have roughly the quality of GT4 models. Where possible they reused assets from GT4 in that latter case.

I stand corrected. It has been said. I don't know how I forgot this, I translated this page myself. It's my fault for turning a blind eye. It was there all this time.

However, I remember this webpage was cut from the website as soon as it appeared. Kaz latter stated this page was accurate but they were not supposed to release this info at that time, that's why it was quickly taken down. So yeah, we were indeed vaguely told by accident about the standard cars being GT4 ports without interiors. They were accidentaly honest

I only wish PD elaborated this further at the time. Like they did with the recent standard cars trailer. Not try to hide it. Doing that only discredited the page. Consequently, nearly nobody took it seriously at the time, me included.

And if you ask me, even if they did elaborate back then, it was too late already. Look at some of the posts, some people were devasted by the thought of getting 830 GT4 cars after 5 years of wating; most never considered it would happen.

 

[ferrari4619]

I personally think that there shoud be a few more standard modelsbecause from what i hear a good majority of the premium cars are going to be race cars when i say race cars i mean allof them WRC nascar etc

 

[JDMKING13]

I'll use this translation since it's more accurate:



I stand corrected. It has been said. I don't know how I forgot this, I translated this page myself. It's my fault for turning a blind eye. It was there all this time.

However, I remember this webpage was cut from the website as soon as it appeared. Kaz latter stated this page was accurate but they were not supposed to release this info at that time, that's why it was quickly taken down. So yeah, we were indeed vaguely told by accident about the standard cars being GT4 ports without interiors. They were accidentaly honest

I only wish PD elaborated this further at the time. Like they did with the recent standard cars trailer. Not try to hide it. Doing that only discredited the page. Consequently, nearly nobody took it seriously at the time, me included.

And if you ask me, even if they did elaborate back then, it was too late already. Look at some of the posts, some people were devasted by the thought of getting 830 GT4 cars after 5 years of wating; most never considered it would happen.

Yea no doubt, however they told us this info 5 months before release in June so i think thats pretty good timing for everybody to let it sink in their head. Knowing PD they are going to show us a better trailer of the standard cars not like that 33 sec video clip then we can make better judgment. 👍

 

[Devedander]

Thats what all the moaning is about? Thats a whole lot better than GT4 cars. Its not as good as Prologues cars but its not bad at all. Its good enough for me.

That IS pretty much a GT4 car... just higher resolution and with sexy reflections applied. Not saying those don't help it look a heck of a lot better, but really it's not near up to par with what PD showed or was reasonably expectable.

And that body shape lends itself to looking good even under bad situations, pretty simple smooth curves all around. Chepu had a comparison up a while ago that showed a little better comparison between an standard car and a GT4 car... I only posted that picture as a response to someone else who posted a more flattering shot to show what the real asset was.

 

[kingcars]

People should stop posting a video grab pic. They will release sooner or later and hopefully some video, trailers too

Why? The high res video pictures are high enough resolution to where we can even see the blockiness of the body lines (which line up with GT4's "version" oddly enough)...I'd say they're more than sufficient to draw a conclusion as to the overall quality of the models. Also, picture resolution will not affect the actual polygon row placement or blocky/textured/blurry details, so they won't be going anywhere.

 

[trk29]

Thats what all the moaning is about? Thats a whole lot better than GT4 cars. Its not as good as Prologues cars but its not bad at all. Its good enough for me.

The headlights look painted on.