Zeta News: Holden Pres Says Camaro Prototypes Due By X-Mas

[YSSMAN]

Dear God,

Thank you for letting Bob Lutz run General Motors. Without him, GM may never compete with cars like the 300C or Charger. Thank you for letting Holden develop such a kick-ass platform that will be enjoyed by both Australians and Americans, as we desperately need these cars right now...

Reports of the GTO's death are greatly exaggerated! According to GM Vice President Bob Lutz, the Pontiac GTO will return in 2008, alongside the 2008/2009 Chevrolet Camaro. Lutz told AutoWeek at the Geneva Motor Show today that the GTO will share the Zeta architecture with the new Chevrolet Camaro and Holden Monaro. Like the last ill-fated GTO, the 2009 GTO will be engineered jointly by GM in North America and Holden in Australia. Lutz said the new GTO project was only on hold for two months, but has since been revived. Lutz also said the rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform will be used for a new Chevrolet Impala, Monte Carlo, and an all new Buck model called the "Statesman." Lutz said a new El Camino could come by 'putting a Chevrolet face' on a Holden Ute, but that's unlikely at this time. The GTO and related programs, however, are back on "full tilt."

OMG, is this not what every educated GM fan has been saying for the last five years!?!? We finially are getting the Comodore as the Impala (and probably the Grand Prix as well...), a Monaro for the GTO and presumably the Monte Carlo, a smaller version for the Camaro, and finially a RWD Buick that can compete with the 300C and Lexus GS430!

BTW: I want to see the El Camino happen. Even if they dont make very many, they will probably sell pretty well.

MY CONFIDENCE IN GM JUST JUMPED 30 KAGILLION POINTS!

 

[Steeda]

this is good to hear, that Fwd impala ss was weaksauce

 

[ND4SPD]

Now that sounds hot! Can't wait to see the return of the rwd Impala SS!

 

[eliseracer]

This time around, move forward with the design and ideology of the cars. Selling a line of only novelty retro cars will not take GM out of the 12-digit hole.

 

[YSSMAN]

GM probably wont style all of the cars exactly like their predecessors, but don't expect the new GTO to look anything like the old one. Chances are they will shoot for the good ones (atleast, IMO the good ones), the '65-'67 models, but I wouldn't be dissapointed with the '68-'72 style either...

However, the Impalas and Monte Carlos as well as the "Buick Statesman" will probably be slightly reskinned versions of the Aussie-market cars. Thats a good thing, as the Aussies know how to make great looking cars!

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Explains why the new VE Commodore has been spied in the US.

 

[Wolfe]

@eliseracer: Like YSSMAN said, the GTO is the only retro car. The rest are rebadged Holdens.

It seems GM-Detroit is finally figuring out that they're only good at trucks/SUVs and the Corvette.

 

[JohnBM01]

I guess for many of us, the days of a "boring, mundane family car" are coming to an end, right? I just hope they don't kill the next GTO in terms of looks. I smell a rat.

So let's see...
* Impala - so it looks like there will be a rear-drive model after I've interviewed people at the Houston Auto Show the past two years.
* Monte Carlo - if released, that will make NASCAR have two available versions of RWD cars instead of just the Charger (which looks like an uglied-up Viper up front)
* Statesman - never heard of.
* El Camino - I think I've seen a Motor Trend magazine on something like the HSV Maloo or something. It will probably mean the return of the Ute to America since the older days. Would be interested if Ford would rival it by bringing back the Ranchero.
* Camaro - if ever the Camaro became FWD and softened up (like the first Mitsu Lancer we got in 2001), many American car enthusiasts would be in complete anger. This thing isn't going FWD and boring anytime soon. It's about as much of an American icon as was the Mustang.

GM needs all the help they can get and if this helps, GM's asses are saved.

 

[Tourettes Guy]

GM needs all the help they can get and if this helps, GM's asses are saved.

And even then it will take a miracle.

 

[Jay]

So much for the cancelled Zeta platform, then it was just Holden using Zeta platform, now its universal, Lucky for you guys in the US we (Australia) never would stand for FWD Large Holden, RWD/AWD only.

 

[Ev0]

It's about bloody time they got rid of FWD on otherwise good V8 powered cars. I hope they also make the next gen Pontiac Grand Prix RWD (although it will probably be a rebadged Impala, seeing how GM loves selling the same car under different names).

 

[eliseracer]

GM needs all the help they can get and if this helps, GM's asses are saved.

Like already mentioned, this project alone cannot and willnot pull GM out of debt and into car leadership.

 

[Poverty]

So most of the old GM lineup was FWD with great big V8's? No wonder they never got praise who would have ever thought to make big car with FWD...

Is there anything special about the zeta platform ie advanced technology? or is the huge hype around it because GM are finally gonna make a modern rwd chassis?

 

[YSSMAN]

GM North America has been selling predominantly FWD cars here in the US since the early-mid '70s, so this is a HUGE change of pace for GM here Poverty. Up untill recently, the only RWD car offerings GM North America had were the Cadillacs, the Corvette, GTO, SSR, and obviously the pickup trucks and SUVs...

But, Poverty, GM was one of the first car companies to produce FWD cars in the US on a large scale. The origional 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado could have been equipped with a 385HP 425ci V8, capable of hitting 0-60 in 7.5 seconds, which was a big deal back then. So much so it won Car of the Year in 1966. Compared to the Cadillacs of the time, in the late '60s early '70s, you could get your Eldorado with a 500ci V8 and FWD if you wanted, so GM knew what they were doing...

As far as Zeta being technically superior to anything, it is somewhat unknown. The origional Zeta was too expensive, so GM had it re-engineered to cut costs, apparently going from some special design to MacPherson struts on the front (its the only info I could find at the moment). It can be assumed it is an IRS setup as well, espically if Holden will be using it, but GMNA may go to the live-axle setup in the US to keep costs down on the Camaro.

Zeta is not going to blow anything out of the water, but it will be enough to be compeditive with BMW, Mercedes, and the like. Its going to be better than the DCX LX platform, but given the release of the first Zeta car in 2008, we may be seeing the first of the DCX LY cars comming out, so that may change.

...And yes, Zeta is being overhyped because it is the first RWD platform GM North America has used since the death of the B-Body (Caprice, Impala SS) in 1996...

 

[Poverty]

OK cool. What does dcx stand for I always presumed it was daimler chrysler but I saw someone mentioned both of them once in the same post as a different companies.

 

[psonefreak]

I'm glad to hear they're gonna have good RWD again, especially on the Impala. I hope the new Camaro looks good. I think I saw pictures of the concept on a magazine cover the other day but I'm not sure now. GM does need saving, and hopefully some people out there who want a famous name in their driveway will help out.

 

[super cirrus]

I wanna see how the designs play out. Just being rear wheel drive isn't gonna be enough to make people suddenly flock to GM dealerships.

 

[Wolfe]

So most of the old GM lineup was FWD with great big V8's? No wonder they never got praise who would have ever thought to make big car with FWD...

What? You mean you don't want a 4.5L 275hp/300lb.ft V8-powered FWD 4000lbs. sedan?

OK cool. What does dcx stand for I always presumed it was daimler chrysler but I saw someone mentioned both of them once in the same post as a different companies.

It stands for DaimlerChrysler. I'm not sure why someone would use "DCX" and "DaimlerChrysler" as if they were different...maybe they said "DCX" and then "Chrysler," referring only to the American side?

 

[Slicks]

...Mabye DCX is the name used in the stock market??

Anyway I'm overjoyed to hear the news that GM will finally go back to RWD. Provided that they get the styling half-decent and the build quality up, then this could be a start to saving GM. I think that Lutz is the best thing to happen to GM in decades.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, its going to be interesting to see if the models debut in New York, which opens on April 14. It's the last major North American auto show, and GM usually uses it to debut the last of the products for the upcomming year.

 

[mwoodski]

GO HOLDEN!

I finally get my dream cars! Even if they are badged as Chvrolets, I don;t care! Just DONT make the Statesman a BUICK!

For all who want to see what the cars for Holden look like right now, go to www.holden.com.au the Caprice is nice too!

 

[Jay]

GO HOLDEN!

For all who want to see what the cars for Holden look like right now, go to www.holden.com.au the Caprice is nice too!

Our current Holden's are old (still omega platform ) and boring, I want them to hurry up with this Zeta platform. When I mean our current Holden I mean the Holdens made here not the rebadged cars we've had over the years.

I wish they would drop our crapice and replace it with a Cadillac.

 

[YSSMAN]

The Statesman will make a good Buick, and I really don't have a problem with it. Buick needs a full-size RWD sedan to compete with the 300C and Lexus GS430, and I think the Statesman would be the one to do it... Although, wouldnt it be more likely for the Caprice to be a Buick and the Statesman to be a Chevrolet? Odd, as the Caprice is the lower-end model here in the US...

 

[GT4_Rule]

I sure hope that GM would skin those cars differently...I'd hate to see a Holden pickup rebadged without changes into a Chevrolet. GM has too many of these - look at the minivans. Saturn Relay, Chevrolet Uplander, Buick Terraza, Pontiac Montana...way too many. And the design is basically the same, with a huge grille. It looks ugly. GM need to diversify its design and have visual diffenreces for each brand's vehicles. By the way, I'm a HUGE fan of American cars. GM should learn from Ford, where the Fusion and the Zephyr does not look very alike. That's some difference.

GM has to also put more new-tech stuff in their cars. My dad has the '90 Olds 88 Royale and that has the 4-speed auto invented probably 20 years before that. Now, it still exitst on the Lucerne, Impala, Grand Prix GXP, Malibu, the Minivan army, some pickups, and Hummer. I mean, its too outdated! GM may have perfected the tranny, but its too old and its time to move on. They need to put more modern stuff like the 6-speed auto in Cadilalc V-series and those DOHC Northstars. Ditch the pushrods. GM needs some serious reorganizing if they want to survive as a company I think.

But yay...GM is finally learning from Mustang and bringing back the Camaro...congrats to Bob Lutz.

 

[Jay]

Although, wouldnt it be more likely for the Caprice to be a Buick and the Statesman to be a Chevrolet? Odd, as the Caprice is the lower-end model here in the US...

It really doesn't matter weather its Holden Statesman or Holden Caprice used for Buick, unless things will be changed with the upcoming Zeta Holden Statesman and Caprice's, currently they are the same car with some different options.

 

[Ev0]

GM has to also put more new-tech stuff in their cars. My dad has the '90 Olds 88 Royale and that has the 4-speed auto invented probably 20 years before that. Now, it still exitst on the Lucerne, Impala, Grand Prix GXP, Malibu, the Minivan army, some pickups, and Hummer. I mean, its too outdated! GM may have perfected the tranny, but its too old and its time to move on. They need to put more modern stuff like the 6-speed auto in Cadilalc V-series and those DOHC Northstars. Ditch the pushrods. GM needs some serious reorganizing if they want to survive as a company I think.

GM definitley needs to ditch the 4 speed auto. Pretty much every company nowadays is offering something with more ratios.

As for the pushrods, I see no need to replace them. They produce gobs of power, they are cheap, and they are fuel efficient (for instance, the Z06 doesn't need to pay the gas guzzler tax). So if it isn't broken, why fix it?

 

[GT4_Rule]

As for the pushrods, I see no need to replace them. They produce gobs of power, they are cheap, and they are fuel efficient (for instance, the Z06 doesn't need to pay the gas guzzler tax). So if it isn't broken, why fix it?

Maybe, but they're really old tech. Pushrods are probably the oldest designs around (I may be wrong!!) yes, they do produce gobs of power and torque, and its simpler than DOHCs and SOHCs, but if GM wants to compete with the modern bunch then they have to offer something more. All Hondas come with DOHCs, and they produce insane amount of horsepower (but not torque though) from tiny displacement. Maybe it has nothing to do with the camshaft layout, but seeing that Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans can squeeze so much power out of tiny displacement (look at the VQ35 or w/e they're called in the Z. They produce 290hp from 3.5L. GM's new DOD 5.3L V8 produces 303hp from 5.3L. Just imagine how much power Nissan can squeeze out from that if you hand over the 5.3L to them!!) I think GM needs to work on the powertrain department to get more power out of large displacements. Even Ford has moved to DOHC and SOHC with the Fusion (DOHC 3.0L V6) Escape (2.3L L4?) and the Mustang (4.0/4.6L V6/V8 SOHC).

Pushrods are good now, but its because after decades of improvement. I personally think that pushrods should be kept for truck/SUV use only; for passenger cars, etc, we need more refinement.

 

[Casio]

Might have to take a picture of that LHD Holden Statesman with Buick badges, a few houses down from me. (I'm deadly serious) It has 2.8 badges on it, which is interesting as we never got the 2.8 down here.

I'm kinda upset about having a new Monaro. Although, I imagine that the guy who paid $187,600AUD for the last ever Monaro, mightn't be to happy either.

 

[Jay]

If you could snap a picture of that odd Statesman that would be great.

 

[YSSMAN]

I would agree that GM does need to get away from the long running 4-speed automatic. But considering that the 4L80E is the strongest transmission in their lineup and is so interchangeable, I don't foresee the jump to 6-speed auto happening all that quickly.

...That said, GM will be dropping a 6-speed automatic in the Escalade and Yukon Denali this year, along with the Corvette 6-speed automatic that went into service this year. They also have the co-developed 6-speed automatic they worked on with Ford, which can handle right up to 300HP and 350lb-ft of torque, which will be good for the new V6-powered Zeta cars. Chances are the top-line models will go for the 6L80E that is in the Corvette, but of course, that is purely speculation.

When it comes to engine power, GM will probably never ditch the pushrod setup anytime soon. As it stands now, they are making as much power as their competition, while building smaller, lighter, and cheaper engines in the long run. The small-block design is one that has worked for 51 years now, and I dont see GM switching to any type of OHC or DOHC, as the last time they did it (LT5), it was too expensive and offered little performance (as compared to the LS engines that replaced it three years later) gains to stay as the top-line engine.

GM does offer some OHC and DOHC setups on some of their engines. Of course there are the ECOTEC I4s, the "high-feature" 2.8L and 3.6L V6s, and the various Northstar V8s. The two V6s and the Northstar programs are VERY expensive to produce and come at a high cost to the consumer. Thats a good reason why those engines are only used in high-end models from Cadillac, Buick, and soon the Saturn Aura.

If were going to talk engines for the new Zeta cars here in the US, were probably going to see modified versions of the 3.9L V6 going RWD, maybe the LS4 5.3L V8 (if not, the Vortec 5300), and of course the LS2.