Demo Physics - KY says "nearly the same feel as actually driving"

  • Thread starter gtbillyboy
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Can anyone tell me if the demo supports the clutch/h-gate shifter, or is it only sequential?

Edit: I ask because I don't have a PS3 yet.. Otherwise I'd just find out myself!
 
Photoninja
Can anyone tell me if the demo supports the clutch/h-gate shifter, or is it only sequential?

Edit: I ask because I don't have a PS3 yet.. Otherwise I'd just find out myself!
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No clutch. It's to make everything fair because if you can clutch, you usually shift faster.
 
Joey D
I don't want the makers of the game to make false statements. I find it extremely funny that when Dan Greenwalt of Forza fame said something similar people jumped all over it, but when Jesus Kaz says something similar people defend it to the hilt.
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Because GT5 physics are close to real and Forshi.tza - no.

And you mix two different things, physics with real-feel.

It is not possible to simulate real-feel in video games, but you can simulate car handling physics e.g. if you enter a corner at X speed with Y degrees of wheel rotation, car will slide from right kerb of That track to left kerb Z seconds of time and after correcting wheel XY number of degrees, car will position itself straight. Same in reality, same in video game. These are physics and to make them act the same as in reality - thats the point and PD is getting closer and closer.

Real-feel (g-forces, human damage, etc) is not possible now. Fear - already can be unimportant if you drive your real car in open huge parking lot and will do slides and drifts, etc...you can feel no fear at all.

So if we talk about simulating car physics - they can be real (or close to it), and thats what Kaz is talking about.
 
YZF
Because GT5 physics are close to real and Forshi.tza - no.

And you mix two different things, physics with real-feel.

It is not possible to simulate real-feel in video games, but you can simulate car handling physics e.g. if you enter a corner at X speed with Y degrees of wheel rotation, car will slide from right kerb of That track to left kerb Z seconds of time and after correcting wheel XY number of degrees, car will position itself straight. Same in reality, same in video game. These are physics and to make them act the same as in reality - thats the point and PD is getting closer and closer.

Real-feel (g-forces, human damage, etc) is not possible now. Fear - already can be unimportant if you drive your real car in open huge parking lot and will do slides and drifts, etc...you can feel no fear at all.

So if we talk about simulating car physics - they can be real (or close to it), and thats what Kaz is talking about.
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^^ this guy is 100% correct
 
My opinion on the matter. Although a game won't be able to simulate actual physical forces and fear, I should say that when playing Forza 3, I feel it and tense up when I know I've over sped into a corner, or how I can tell if I've lost the car around a corner long before I actually see it spin out. That's the first game that I've noticed that happening, and it surprised me. I can drive cars in Forza exactly how I drive them in real life, and they respond exactly how I expect them too. If GT5 is better than Forza 3, that will be more than enough for me.
 
Well after trying the new physics engine it felt somewhat difficult(maybe because the reaction time with the controller)i was a little disappointed gave it a try once more and little by little i realized that once you get used to it feels like a big improvement over gt5 prologue it feels completely different, forza 3 and GT5 prologue feel like have more in common than this new demo (at least to me), probably great to play with a wheel.
 
I dl'd the demo and I was very impressed. Firstly, the car sounds; I turned the volume up to around how loud it would be in a real life cockpit. I noticed the depth of different whooshes and growls and the quality was great (admittedly it's just 2 cars). I love the sound of the tuned Nissan, it's sounds like a jet engine! Tyre sounds have improved also, but are still too intrusive in my opinion, especially after being taken on a few hot laps in a v8 supercar, I found that tyre noises, even on the limits of grip, aren't that "screamish". (I'm mainly referring to the tuned Nissan, for stock tyres, I don't know).

The car's look amazing, and the level of detail surpasses Forza in terms of interior and headlight/taillight detail. The shading and reflections are extremely detailed too. I still noticed some poor shadows and tearing and some minor pauses, but that's understandable, especially if there's still months until release. My only major gripe is that apart from the track surface and the cars, the graphics aren't astounding. They're crisp and clear, but the hills look flat green, putting a golf course to shame, and Polyphony's obsession with blue skies the sun being permanently at midday doesn't help to add atmosphere. The spectators are still shopping mall cutouts too. Good thing they aren't usually placed close to the circuit. I'm hoping once we get the full thing, we will find more detailed scenery and different locales with different lighting, not just midday and night time.

The physics are simply amazing, it's a shame I don't have a wheel to make the most of it. Loss of grip is very natural, and the bump mapping and how it effects the car is extremely noticeable; from the cockpit it certainly adds to the sense of driving the real thing as the camera vibrates over every blemish. Forza boasted about it's bumps, but Gran Turismo does it so much better. Also, I was astounded when I ran wide onto the yellow painted surface and the grip characteristics changed completely, as did the tyre noise which was extremely convincing as it started to squeak and squeal, much like driving over a painted surface in a carpark etc. Overall, the physics make for an incredibly intense drive as the car bounces around and throttle/steering corrections must be made every millisecond. In this sense, I can see how Yamauchi says it's nearly like driving the real thing, as you can't slack off for even a second. The sensitive controller controls might not do much justice for most people, but it enables realistic adjustments with smaller movements, similar to the miniscule adjustments possible with a wheel. (you just need incredibly deft hands:P)

PS. . . . menu music sucks:P
 
gtbillyboy
So for those lucky enough to play the demo, can anyone comment on what they think of the physics - the rest of us will have to comment tomorrow I guess.

Quote "Kaz spends a lot of time speaking on the new physics system designed for Gran Turismo 5. He's really proud of the way the new physics system captures the 'dynamic' feel of driving, going as far to say "We feel that this could be nearly the same feel as actually driving". Kaz specifically mentions that feedback will give players a good indication of whether or not their car is under control or sliding."


http://www.ps3center.net/news/4177/gt5s-physics-are-nearly-the-same-as-actually-driving/
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After driving a 350Z for three years, I agree! The physics are spot on, especially at the limit. You can either choose to back off the throttle or slightly countersteer (smoothly of course) to get the car back in line. It makes me misty eyed since I don't have the 350Z any more...
 
One thing I noticed, is that people frequently mistake a slow camera and input response as a good representation of a car's weight. This was especially true with Enthusia, as every car felt like you were trying to turn a train, and then the camera was placed on the last car on that train, making everything feel "heavy" and weighty. People raved on about how well Enthusia replicated weight transfer, when in reality it was simply sluggish. Forza does this less, but it's still there. The GT5 Demo has a quick, sharp camera response, and I feel that this quick responsive view will give people the impression that all the car react like lightweight go-karts and don't feel like they're lugging around any weight. If you overlook this, and simply focus on what the car is doing, and how it's responding to inputs, it's actually very realistic and accurate. Kind of annoying to get used to though, I feel that the game needs to be played with a wheel, which I didn't want to have to purchase now that the controllers have proper triggers.


Also, I hate that I can't disable driver aids.
 
The tuned car is quite alright, but the stock 370z in the game drives in a serious unrealistic fashion and it's borderline ridiculous how the car behaves sometimes. It just has more grip in real life than they're making it seem in the game. With practice and more time maybe it'll grow on me, but it's no iRacing (or LFS or rFactor) that's for sure.

Waiting a long time for thing, but I'm not convinced yet. Hopefully the full game can persuade me. It's better than Forza though, but the handling etc is still miles off what the pc sims have to offer.

And before anyone assumes otherwise, I've been a passenger in a 370z that was driven quite hard on a track, and this doesn't feel anything like it to me. The transition under to over steer feels fake to me. Also when you touch the grass the car behaves a bit over the top.

Keep in mind, these are just my opinions. No doubt I'll get flamed for it but so be it. Simply expressing my feelings about the demo thus far. Maybe it'll change with more time behind my G25 setup.
 
Perfect Balance
Also, I hate that I can't disable driver aids.[/color]
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Im using a wheel and I could turn off the driver aids in the menu.. when I took out the tuned version it was orignally on 7 and I could turn it off.. it wasnt greyed out...
 
Mermadium
The Music Rules i love that house jazz love the style :)
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I agree, people complain about it but I think it suits the menu. If you went into a Mercedes show room you wouldn't want rock music blaring out, but you might when you're inside the car taking it for a test drive.

Plus, I just think that little fusion piece is really infectious 👍
 
Dominguero
it's no iRacing (or LFS or rFactor) that's for sure.
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That's funny, because I think it is. Well, I haven't played iRacing, but then very few people can afford to rent a game at $200 a year. The only thing I don't like is how slippery and slow the car is on grass, but that's probably the new "penalty" system.

I also hope people who play the demo in chase cam don't complain about how slow the game looks. I've posted numerous times of how many racing games will hype the speed visuals so you look like you're going faster than you are. Burnout screams along at a visual speed of hundreds of miles per hour! If you drive a car in real life, eventually you realize that going highway speeds - except for the Autobahn - look rather placid and slow compared to when you first took your car down the road at 70mph/100kph.

The replays look amazing, and I think only better graphics could be more realistic.

Oh, and another vote for cool menu music.
 
Tenacious D
That's funny, because I think it is. Well, I haven't played iRacing, but then very few people can afford to rent a game at $200 a year.
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I to be fair only go on iRacing at a mates house, on a G25 setup and another mate has very expensive pedals/wheel etc. However, on both iRacing simply feels better than this demo.

As I said I'll give it more time over the weekend, see if I change my mind. But I can't help feel a little let down, but I always expect more and especially with as long as this took I probably imagined the game to be better than it can end up being.
 
Played the demo last night. Really liking the physics and the fact that I actually spun out while applying too much gas (although it might be a bit too sensitive, even with pedals). However, does anyone notice that they still seem to have the "instant grip" properties on at least the R1 tires? I tried to correct oversteer a couple times and found myself in the opposite wall simply because the front tires seemed to have magical properties and instantly shifted my weight instead of gradually doing it.

But it's a small price to pay. Overall, I love it.
 
I downloaded the Demo version today. I simply cannot think of words to describe how real it feels. when the back end of the car goes into a slide when you exit the corner, you can feel it tugging as the rear wheels lose grip, then you can really feel the steering and suspension working hard as you swing in the oposite lock to correct it.

It feels so much different to GT5 Prologue or any other GT game. It's great, and KY is exactly on the dot when he says "Nearly the same feel as actually driving". It does feel like you actually are driving. it really honestly, 150%, genuinely, without any shadow of doubt feels real. It's now that it really deserves the title 'The Real Driving Simulator" because it actually is.
 
The physics with this demo are just awesome. The brakes on each car are much easier to modulate. The tuned Z sounds wicked; you can even hear a little bit of the gear whine mixed in with the brawny exhaust note
 
When I first played the demo I was like WTF!!! I was really disapointed and took a break for 10 mins. Then, I decided to give it a second chance and it really was AWESOME!! I got used to the new physics very easily, even though it is very different than prologue. Actually, everything is different: the physics, the cockpit, the differences between the tuned-non tuned car, the icons everything was improved. JUST AWESOME
 
Take a break people, I can't play and I'm so excited I think it's not only my mouth that's wet right now. Unfortunately I can't help myself to stay away from this forum. :D
 
Blitz187
Im using a wheel and I could turn off the driver aids in the menu.. when I took out the tuned version it was orignally on 7 and I could turn it off.. it wasnt greyed out...
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That's only traction control, the ASM was still on, and the ABS was still on.
 
Perfect Balance
That's only traction control, the ASM was still on, and the ABS was still on.
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ASM is off by default with either cars and traction in the normal 370Z will depend if you're using controller or wheel, it will switch automatically ON (7) for the controllers and OFF for wheels. With the tuned 370Z, either wheel or controller, you can adjust the TC. The best way to check your setting is to look under the leaderboard ranking (under either Tuned or Normal car ranking, not the overall)- click on your name (or anyone else and all the setting will be shown). And ABS- just as it was in Prologue, it's non-adjustable in TT mode.

I'm pretty sure this is done to keep a good balance between wheels and pad users and to present as little variable as possible.
 
alot of people are saying that this version of the physics is spot on....but is it true you still cannot do propper donuts in the 370z???? I mean, have PD fixed the low speed physics yet???
 
Perfect Balance
That's only traction control, the ASM was still on, and the ABS was still on.
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There is no ASM on, besides the fact it's easy to feel (it's very annoying), check the leaderboards it tells you the status of assists used.
 
GT5 isn't "crap", however, it does irk me, the fact that PD ALWAYS fool thier audience into thinking that hard means realistic, some of the class statements I read on GTPlanet were.....

"The physics are great, it now feels like GTR2/GTL"!!!

On the topic of not being able to hold powerslides

"The 370Z isn't very good at drifting"!!!!

Its clear that a large portion of the people playing it over at GTplanet are either completely blinkered, have never driven a car, let alone a high performance car anywhere near the limit of grip, or just a little bit mental!!!

I am sure GT5 will be a good game, but there are better examples of realism available.
Reply With Quote
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http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=58097&page=33
 
Main differense in sliding physics is that in LFS and Forza you can catch a slide by letting wheel do the work and catching it on the right moment. In GT5 wheel does not automaticly turn to counter the slide same matter, or i can not tell what is right moment to let loose the wheel as i do not quite feel when slide is starting. I have only drifted on snow and gravel and not high speed on tarmac, but i can say that lfs and forza drifting wheels more close to what i have experieced. I currently am totally poor in playing GT5 as i have played those ohter games that feel very different.

Note that my FFB setting might way of because i have had only 40min with game (i will continue after holidays)
(fanatec turbo s wheel by the way)

edit2: GT5 370z feels a bit like diff has 100% or something(this what i would adjust first on the car)
 
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Its clear that a large portion of the people playing it over at GTplanet are either completely blinkered, have never driven a car, let alone a high performance car anywhere near the limit of grip, or just a little bit mental!!!

I am sure GT5 will be a good game, but there are better examples of realism available.
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A PC sim forum... why am I not surprised? ;)

As I said, I played LFS, and even Prologue was very similar in feel, even with all its warts. The TT demo is even closer, and blows just about any PC game away with its visuals. Yes, you can find shortcomings in some aspect of physics and declare GT5 to be "rubbish" because of it. But guess what? You can do the same thing with every one of their beloved sims. You have to combine all of them with all their best aspects to come up with a perfect racing sim. But then, who is going to give me a game with a thousand cars, all driving realistically? And with graphics to die for?

So, whatever. :sly:
 
Tenacious D
A PC sim forum... why am I not surprised? ;)

As I said, I played LFS, and even Prologue was very similar in feel, even with all its warts. The TT demo is even closer, and blows just about any PC game away with its visuals. Yes, you can find shortcomings in some aspect of physics and declare GT5 to be "rubbish" because of it. But guess what? You can do the same thing with every one of their beloved sims. You have to combine all of them with all their best aspects to come up with a perfect racing sim. But then, who is going to give me a game with a thousand cars, all driving realistically? And with graphics to die for?

So, whatever. :sly:
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you are totally right, i prefer a game with 1000 cars, awesome graphics and not so reallistic physics, that's why i've stopped playing LFS/rfactor/iracing and i bought a ps3 and GT5P
 
First of all I d like to say that this message is intended primary for Kaz s developing team. I don t mean to provoke any angry reaction of a GT fan I just want to have the game the way I considere it to be the best (or I may say real)and not persuade anybody on the forum that I m right and he (or she:) is wrong. Also I d like to note that I m only going to discusse the driving physics (which matters most to me) not other aspects.
In general I think the GT TT demo physics are very nice but certain areas should be ironed out to make it perfect:

- The way the car behaves beyond the limit of the tire grip ( The truth is when sliding (driving "beyond" the limit of the tires) you shouldnt be loosing the control of the car but In the demo I am not feeling the car or at least too litle and when trying to control or countersteer slides the car often reacts unpredictable. This is best seen when trying to drift. It s probably me giving wrong inputs to the car but it is only bcause I m not sure what is the car doing at that instant and what to do to get it back under my control. This does not happen to me when drifting in real life. The lost of grip and control should be more continuous. I do not think it has anything to do with me not sensing the speed of the car or the visual and oral hints it is giving me. I m perfectly accostomed to the game and I can sence the car very nicely when not sliding. Maybe it s not primary the physics of the car but rather the forcefeedback or maybe combination of both I m not sure yet but LFS physics give me mutch closer feeling to the real thing and control of the virtual car when sliding or drifting than GT demo.
-Grass physics (1.too slipery, you can notice it when doing small circles on the grass very gentle on the gass, not accelerating, the back of the car slides like on ice 2.the car sways on the grass too much. more like a boat on the sea, I know grass is not absolutly flat but the movemet should me subtle and more sort of jerky or shuddery 3. grass and gravel magically limits reving though it should actually be the other way cause they present less ressistance to the engine than tarmac)
- Transition from the grass back to tarmack (When going from grass back to the road the car spins every time there is slightly higher angle even though you are not accelerating or braking) have not experienced in real life
- The brakes do not lock (probably only the demo settings - impossible to turn off the ABS completly)
- Wheels do not have tendency to lock when harsh downshifting
- Inability to impose brake in or lift off oversteer proparly .This I m not sure about it may be the way this car behaves in reality. I d have to see how other cars behave in this physics.
- The car reaction to hand brake seems exegerated too - When using handbrake and only slightly turning the wheel the back wheels lose to much grip like if they were on ice - this might be the same "tire loosing too much grip out of sudden" problem that I mentioned with drifting
One more thing I said I wouldn t discuse anything else beyond the physics but in case this gets to Kaz team... Engine sounds are great but rolling sound of the weels on tarmac when going slow is exegerated the same counts for the "grass" sound.
Sorry too all GT fans for this critisism I t s only because I like GT so much and I think it has potential to be a realy great simulation.
Driving with Logitech 25, simulation mode, highest forcefeedback, cocpit view
 

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