Demo Physics - KY says "nearly the same feel as actually driving"

[ItsHim]

I guess I was expecting too much to make a comment against the GT series.

As I've said if Dan Greenwalt said the same thing I can guarantee you this thread would be full of people saying the same thing I said.

I perceive Kazunori as a very distinguished, well educated and humble person. He's very authentic and has all the ingredients for being an iconic figure in the games industry. Ever watched him going round the Nordschleife? If he claims he feels like that's as close to it as he can get, then I see no reason doubting him.

On the other hand, Greenawalt never fails to irritate me with his comments, body language and general attitude. He's yet to prove his credibility to me.

I very much enjoyed Forza 2, it was fun while it lasted. Though it lacks the special appeal GT breaths, and thus despite being offered at bargain prices, I'd rather hang out at these forums and invite my girlfriend to diner.

 

[Owen.C93]

Was it an official translation? Things like nearly, almost and quite a reasonable representation of real driving are usually interchangeable for the sake of translation. Just a thought.

 

[YonnyMestampo]

So its now even better then Prologue, amazing! Something tells me no console sim will come close.

By the way Yonny, you mention the N3 tires the Slicks don't feel as real? Also that is a Tuned 370z so its tuned to handle and be balanced, something to consider, because I read your earier posts that you mention it feels bit arcade was it? right?

Also did you still hit those tires? I wonder if they are movable or bolted in.

I just think that the Z Tuned has to much grip, but thats my feeling, maybe tomorrow you play it and think its ok. I like the N1, N2 and N3 tires, for the Z Tuned I think they should put the S2 or S3, not the R1.

 

[Jordan]

I guess I was expecting too much to make a comment against the GT series.

When anyone discusses a driving game, we always understand our comments are made within the context of a simulation. I think people are taking issue with your remarks because there is no reason to believe that Yamauchi's statement was made outside of that context. For example, I've driven more than a hundred laps around Laguna Seca and Road Atlanta in a Skip Barber F2000 car. When I tried them out in iRacing, the car lost grip in the exact same places, I'd lock the front wheels at the exact same spots, and the car over/under steered with the same handling characteristics, just as it did in real life. If I then said "Wow, it's nearly the same feel as actually driving the car on that track!" would you criticize me for being unreasonable? Maybe so, but I hope not!

That's why I don't see Yamauchi's comments as daft or unusual - he's just expressing the fact that he feels Polyphony Digital is making great progress in their efforts to recreate the handling characteristics of a real car - what you "feel" when you're "actually driving".

 

[arvin charles]

Was it an official translation? Things like nearly, almost and quite a reasonable representation of real driving are usually interchangeable for the sake of translation. Just a thought.

Reporters don't normally do the translating (unless it's something like Spanish)...Everything goes through PD's translator. Questions are asked in English, KY answers in Japanese, KY's translator then says his answer in English.

This is from someone who works in tv news & sports.

 

[Mr P510]

When anyone discusses a driving game, we always understand our comments are made within the context of a simulation. I think people are taking issue with your remarks because there is no reason to believe that Yamauchi's statement was made outside of that context. For example, I've driven more than a hundred laps around Laguna Seca and Road Atlanta in a Skip Barber F2000 car. When I tried them out in iRacing, the car lost grip in the exact same places, I'd lock the front wheels at the exact same spots, and the car over/under steered with the same handling characteristics, just as it did in real life. If I then said "Wow, it's nearly the same feel as actually driving the car on that track!" would you criticize me for being unreasonable? Maybe so, but I hope not!

That's why I don't see Yamauchi's comments as daft or unusual - he's just expressing the fact that he feels Polyphony Digital is making great progress in their efforts to recreate the handling characteristics of a real car - what you "feel" when you're "actually driving".

Nice,well interpreted post Jordan...my thoughts exactly.

 

[Joey D]

When anyone discusses a driving game, we always understand our comments are made within the context of a simulation. I think people are taking issue with your remarks because there is no reason to believe that Yamauchi's statement was made outside of that context. For example, I've driven more than a hundred laps around Laguna Seca and Road Atlanta in a Skip Barber F2000 car. When I tried them out in iRacing, the car lost grip in the exact same places, I'd lock the front wheels at the exact same spots, and the car over/under steered with the same handling characteristics, just as it did in real life. If I then said "Wow, it's nearly the same feel as actually driving the car on that track!" would you criticize me for being unreasonable? Maybe so, but I hope not!

That's why I don't see Yamauchi's comments as daft or unusual - he's just expressing the fact that he feels Polyphony Digital is making great progress in their efforts to recreate the handling characteristics of a real car - what you "feel" when you're "actually driving".

I don't believe I am taking it out of context, I'm going by exactly what Kaz said instead of assuming anything. I have learned what assuming does and the old saying holds true. Whatever the case though, I still do not think any video game will ever simulate the driving experience because there is more to it then the tires breaking loose at a specific point, hitting the racing line just right, etc.

I think a more appropriate thing would have been to say "nearly the same physics as actual driving". To feel the same you would need the g-forces, the fear, the vibrations, the sounds, etc. And no game offers that, nor do I think a game is capable of ever replicating that.

Don't get me wrong, I think GT is a very good game and I think a lot of the aspect are very realistic and do offer a similar feeling to how a real car would react. To say that they are nearly the same though? I don't think so.

 

[daus26]

I think a more appropriate thing would have been to say "nearly the same physics as actual driving". To feel the same you would need the g-forces, the fear, the vibrations, the sounds, etc. And no game offers that, nor do I think a game is capable of ever replicating that.

Is the whole article not talking about physics?

It's common sense, not assuming. Surely anyone would think that he didn't meant a realistic feel as far as g-forces. I mean c'mon..

 

[PAPPACLART]

I don't believe it's possible to accurately replicate the feel of drive a car. You can get close for sure but there are some elements you can't simulate. As I've said, fear is one of them. When you are playing a game you know that it isn't your car, you know if you crash you aren't going to be hurt or out a lot of money.

The only possible way to accurate replicate the feel of driving in a game is to do what they did in the Matrix movies and I really doubt that's possible. So for all intensive purposes, they will never get to that point.



I still don't think it's even nearly.

Jeez, we all know that GT is a game and yes obviously there are limits to how real something can be with just a joypad/G25 while you are sitting in your arm chair. Why does everything have to be picked apart by some members on this forum?

It is clear that KY is happy with what he has created, and it is yet a step closer to offering us a closer experience to driving a real car even if it is a millions miles off the real thing. The whole reason we like Sim racing games over say an arcade racing game is because a Sim, the the cars react and feel closer to reality vs an arcade racing game. Please Stop interpreting things the wrong way for the sake of a pointess debate!

 

[H3avyM3tal]

Did you play GT5 yet? I don't understand why saying that he FEELS it is NEARLY the same is so wrong.

It is the same as real driving

vs

I feel it is nearly the same as real driving.

He did not say they are nearly the same, he said that he FEELS they are.

Do you see the difference? No one here said that Kaz is absolutly right even after you jumped the gun. You chose to think that those two sentences above are one and the same yourself.

 

[Owen.C93]

Reporters don't normally do the translating (unless it's something like Spanish)...Everything goes through PD's translator. Questions are asked in English, KY answers in Japanese, KY's translator then says his answer in English.

This is from someone who works in tv news & sports.

Oh I am very aware of translator guy, I was just making sure this wasn't a google translation. I think we are arguing different things in this thread.

 

[No46_TheDoctor]

I don't believe I am taking it out of context, I'm going by exactly what Kaz said instead of assuming anything. I have learned what assuming does and the old saying holds true. Whatever the case though, I still do not think any video game will ever simulate the driving experience because there is more to it then the tires breaking loose at a specific point, hitting the racing line just right, etc.

I think a more appropriate thing would have been to say "nearly the same physics as actual driving". To feel the same you would need the g-forces, the fear, the vibrations, the sounds, etc. And no game offers that, nor do I think a game is capable of ever replicating that.

Don't get me wrong, I think GT is a very good game and I think a lot of the aspect are very realistic and do offer a similar feeling to how a real car would react. To say that they are nearly the same though? I don't think so.

So the whole point to your arguement is what exactly?

Don't play games? Instead buy your own race car and enter it in real races?

HELLO !!! this is a computer game forum, COMPUTER GAME, yes? It's called the "real driving simulator" for a reason, the clue is in the word "simulator"

Everyone knows the PS3 can't simulate G-force, so why keep using it as the basis for your arguement? Did Kaz say "you will feel the G-force on every corner" ? No he didn't, so forget about the bloody G-Forces for a second.

This is the closest anyone is going to get to experiencing a real race car in their bedroom/livingroom, period, until GT6 and PS4 of course. Get over it.

 

[PAPPACLART]

So the whole point to your arguement is what exactly?

Don't play games? Instead buy your own race car and enter it in real races?

HELLO !!! this is a computer game forum, COMPUTER GAME, yes? It's called the "real driving simulator" for a reason, the clue is in the word "simulator"

Everyone knows the PS3 can't simulate G-force, so why keep using it as the basis for your arguement? Did Kaz say "you will feel the G-force on every corner" ? No he didn't, so forget about the bloody G-Forces for a second.

This is the closest anyone is going to get to experiencing a real race car in their bedroom/livingroom, period, until GT6 and PS4 of course. Get over it.

I could not have put that better:tup:

 

[McLaren]

So the whole point to your arguement is what exactly?

Don't play games? Instead buy your own race car and enter it in real races?

HELLO !!! this is a computer game forum, COMPUTER GAME, yes? It's called the "real driving simulator" for a reason, the clue is in the word "simulator"

Everyone knows the PS3 can't simulate G-force, so why keep using it as the basis for your arguement? Did Kaz say "you will feel the G-force on every corner" ? No he didn't, so forget about the bloody G-Forces for a second.

This is the closest anyone is going to get to experiencing a real race car in their bedroom/livingroom, period, until GT6 and PS4 of course. Get over it.

Because you've played GT5, already, right? No? Then, if GT5 is anything to go by, I'm not counting on that claim.

 

[Joey D]

So the whole point to your arguement is what exactly?

The point is saying any driving game offer "nearly the same feeling as actually driving" isn't true. It may offer a similar experience but it won't give you the same feeling, or ever nearly the same feeling, for reasons I've already discussed, the biggest on being fear.

 

[No46_TheDoctor]

Because you've played GT5, already, right? No? Then, if GT5 is anything to go by, I'm not counting on that claim.

No, I have played GT5 Prologue, and that already fulfills that statement, now all we need are more cars and tracks, sorted

 

[IsmokeGT]

nearly the same feeling = similar experience

'Feeling' is much more than just a physical sense.

 

[McLaren]

No, I have played GT5 Prologue, and that already fulfills that statement, now all we need are more cars and tracks, sorted

 

[Timppaq]

If you let me, I'd say that I belive we should be quite stoked because of the new physics. Yes, I've never felt them yet, but I also drive the car in gt5p by the feel that the eyesight gives me. (Adding to that the wheel also ofcourse..) To be honest, I can't wait tomorrow. 👍 So I'm drinking beer & typing stupid posts.

 

[No46_TheDoctor]

If you let me, I'd say that I belive we should be quite stoked because of the new physics. Yes, I've never felt them yet, but I also drive the car in gt5p by the feel that the eyesight gives me. (Adding to that the wheel also ofcourse..) To be honest, I can't wait tomorrow. 👍 So I'm drinking beer & typing stupid posts.

nice one

 

[balang_479]

The physics look amazing, the way the car reacts is like no other ive seen in a video a game and looks just like real life... GT5 will be incredible as far as realism goes... cant wait.

 

[Tenacious D]

The point is saying any driving game offer "nearly the same feeling as actually driving" isn't true. It may offer a similar experience but it won't give you the same feeling, or ever nearly the same feeling, for reasons I've already discussed, the biggest on being fear.

Well, you have been ignoring a whole gob of posts in the Forza and Ferrari Challenge forums. In fact, I was going to say something similar to what Jordan posted previously. A lot of people have posted quite extensively at times how one game or another "feels" a certain way "just like" when they drive a car in real life. Biggles has harped at length of his joy while driving the Ferraris in Ferrari Challenge because of the tactile response he got from throwing the cars around turns. Others have posted similar things about Enthusia, GTR, rFactor and Prologue.

And okay, not everyone experiences this. Maybe you're one of them. But I have noticed that you'll cut a lot of slack on certain games, and people who play them. And people who make them. Which you will not with Kazunori.

No, I have played GT5 Prologue, and that already fulfills that statement, now all we need are more cars and tracks, sorted

Well, I haven't laughed yet at people who expressed orgasmic delight over the feel of cars in Forza 3. A feeling I do not happen to share to the same extent.

Should I now?

 

[Scaff]

The point is saying any driving game offer "nearly the same feeling as actually driving" isn't true. It may offer a similar experience but it won't give you the same feeling, or ever nearly the same feeling, for reasons I've already discussed, the biggest on being fear.

Just to clarify are you saying that to say....

"nearly the same feeling as actually driving"

is totally different to....

"a similar experience"


are poles apart in terms of a definition?

I must confess that, to me, that smacks a little of arguing for the sake of it, as those seem to be pretty much interchangeable statements.



Scaff

 

[McLaren]

Well, I haven't laughed yet at people who expressed orgasmic delight over the feel of cars in Forza 3. A feeling I do not happen to share to the same extent.

Should I now?

If someone told me Forza was the "closest anyone is going to get to experiencing a real race car in their bedroom/livingroom", I'd laugh at them, too.

I still stand by my statement that F355 Challenge is the only console game, so far, that has proved itself to be at the very edge of realism, though I think Enthusia came very close in certain areas as well.

But for GT5 (& Forza), no, I have yet to see either franchises reaching the title of the most realistic console racer. The only credit I give to GT is that, with each update we've gotten, it is getting ever so closer.

 

[Joey D]

Just to clarify are you saying that to say....

"nearly the same feeling as actually driving"

is totally different to....

"a similar experience"


are poles apart in terms of a definition?

I must confess that, to me, that smacks a little of arguing for the sake of it, as those seem to be pretty much interchangeable statements.



Scaff

Feeling != Experience. To have a similar feel I'd actually have to feel like I was driving the car. This means vibrations, g-forces, bumps, fear, whatever. Sitting on my chair, in a warm room does not ever remotely give me the same feeling as driving a real car. And even if I spent hundreds of dollars on a rig set up I still would be lacking quite a few elements that are present in real life driving.

Maybe experience wasn't the best choice of a word, but what I was getting at is that you can see how a car might react under X conditions.

Is it really that hard to follow what I'm saying?

For clarity sake:
A video game will never give you the same feeling as driving a car. There are way to many things that can not be simulated. This is my point, which is why I think Kaz's state is wrong.

 

[No46_TheDoctor]

If someone told me Forza was the "closest anyone is going to get to experiencing a real race car in their bedroom/livingroom", I'd laugh at them, too.

I still stand by my statement that F355 Challenge is the only console game, so far, that has proved itself to be at the very edge of realism, though I think Enthusia came very close in certain areas as well.

But for GT5 (& Forza), no, I have yet to see either franchises reaching the title of the most realistic console racer. The only credit I give to GT is that, with each update we've gotten, it is getting ever so closer.

All I have to compare GT5 Prologue with is real life, and I can tell you I have pushed a few cars to and, I'm afraid to say, well beyond their limits, and GT5 Prologue is the closest I've got virtually to the real thing.

I'm never going to be "afraid" of crashing in a game, anyone who raises that as a fault of a racing game is just being plain silly.

And Joey, it's not hard to follow what your saying, its just hard to follow "why" you are saying it? Are you criticising GT5 or all games?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Is it me, or does every new thread around here usually turn into one big argument?

Gettin kinda old...

 

[IsmokeGT]

@ Joey D- simulate does not mean replicate

 

[Joey D]

And Joey, it's not hard to follow what your saying, its just hard to follow "why" you are saying it? Are you criticising GT5 or all games?

All driving games in general. I made that clear in my first post and subsequent posts by saying "video games" and not "only GT will never be able to give the feeling of driving".

@ Joey D- simulate does not mean replicate

I don't disagree with that, in fact I'm in agreement with that statement. It's what I've been saying throughout most of my posts.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

One other question - is it called the real driving simulator (as in the best there is), or the real driving simulator (as in the simulator of real driving)?