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I say it is important to have one (a European Grand Prix) because F1 has the sensation there (in Europe).
The triumph I told you was the 1997 F1 World Championship that he won with Williams, not the race.
The Formula 1 calendar development threadFormula 1
- Thread starter prisonermonkeys
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I say it is important to have one (a European Grand Prix) because F1 has the sensation there (in Europe).
The triumph I told you was the 1997 F1 World Championship that he won with Williams, not the race.
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- astrosdude91
Why should a Grand Prix be used as a economic renewal project. If we are doing that, then we should have a Sudan and Hatian Grand Prix, since those economies are worse off.
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Formula 1 costs a ridiculous amount of money to host. So much so that it's rumored that the Singapore F1 race won't run again after the contract expires next year (so sue me... I didn't say this, a media friend who went to Singapore did!) because of the economic cost of running the race. Anyway, so the rumor goes, the night races have done their job of raising Singapore's tourism profile.
And that's what you can't get with a GP held at many other countries... to raise tourism and trade profits with an F1 GP, you have to have the events, sights, attractions and world class accomodations that go with the GP, otherwise, the crowd you're catering to (mostly first class world citizens and the well-off who have the disposable income for plane tickets) won't come back after the Grand Prix is over.
And that's what you can't get with a GP held at many other countries... to raise tourism and trade profits with an F1 GP, you have to have the events, sights, attractions and world class accomodations that go with the GP, otherwise, the crowd you're catering to (mostly first class world citizens and the well-off who have the disposable income for plane tickets) won't come back after the Grand Prix is over.
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I find that very odd, because Bernie always signs new races up onto a seven-year contract. It's to stop countries doing exactly what you're describing - holding a Grand Prix for two or three years to increase their international exposure and raise their tourism profile. I can't imagine he'd make an exception for Singapore.
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I'm pretty sure there's always talk that Singapore will drop their Grand Prix in the month after the actual race ...
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Because, Puerto Rico, like many other locations in the US (Puerto Rico is a United States territory), are suffering their highest unemployment rates since the great depression and hosting a grand prix would be good because it strengthens Puerto Rico's tourism image. Here's what I said earlier:
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ROAD_DOGG33J
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How about a Pacific Grand Prix in Hawaii and/or Laguna Seca? Or how about we alternate them both for the event? Did you know that the Pacific Grand Prix has been held at Laguna Seca from 1960 through 1963?
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Because there are no circuits in Hawaii and Laguna Seca is over-rated.
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prisonermonkeys
Come on, Hawaii can build a purpose built FIA Grade 1 circuit and Laguna Seca can get an upgrade to meet the FIA Grade 1 standard.
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It still doesn't stop Laguna from being over-rated. Most people only think of the Corkscrew, but the rest of the circuit is fairly generic; of the eleven corners on the circuit, six are fairly interchangeable.
And speaking of the Corkscrew, I think the drop into the right-hander puts the corner beyond the maximum allowable gradient for a Formula 1 circuit. There's a real danger that any car going through the corner at speed would lift a wheel, catch air underneath it and spear off the track. Even if it is within the FIA's parameters, there is never going to be a race there.
This thread isn't for fantasy or idealised calendars. It's for discussing the possibility of the calendar expanding to include new races, as supported by actual evidence.
And speaking of the Corkscrew, I think the drop into the right-hander puts the corner beyond the maximum allowable gradient for a Formula 1 circuit. There's a real danger that any car going through the corner at speed would lift a wheel, catch air underneath it and spear off the track. Even if it is within the FIA's parameters, there is never going to be a race there.
This thread isn't for fantasy or idealised calendars. It's for discussing the possibility of the calendar expanding to include new races, as supported by actual evidence.
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Hmmm... wonder how they managed to hold CART races at SECA, despite the Corkscrew? (Which made for some very memorable racing, actually).
I think current F1 cars could do it if they raised the ride height quite a bit to deal with it.
Yes, F1 GPs generate revenue... but NOT at no cost to the hosting city. It can cost an incredible amount of money to host just a single GP.
That's why I said: You not only need the race itself, but you have to have the whole package, tourist sites, hotels, accomodations, other attractions... stuff that all the heavy swingers will want to stay for Monday after the race... otherwise, it's no go.
Our country has a tourism problem (not a huge one, but we could always use a leg up on Thailand)... but I don't see an F1GP curing that. Any potential hike in tourist revenues the weekend of the race will not cover the costs of running the GP if not enough people go to watch it in person.
That's the problem with Grand Prixs in places like China or *gasp* Indy... there's a $30m hosting fee (oops, now up to $40m plus) that organizers have to recoup... no matter how many people actually watch. (Shanghai attendance has been falling in recent years)
If you opt to build a racetrack instead of using a street circuit, you will never recoup the costs off of F1 alone. Sepang cost about $120m to build. Shanghai nearly half-a-billion dollars. Even if you have a rich calendar, there's no way a track like that will ever pay for itself... look at how many popular race circuits are in dire financial straits at the moment.
If you have a temporary street circuit, you need to invest in repaving before every race (and it has to be high quality, otherwise it'll disintegrate halfway through the race weekend), as well as thousands of barriers, temporary fencing, lights, pit garages, stands, etcetera... which have to be stored away between GPs (you can't just rent that much stuff).
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There are a lot of countries around the world who could use some more tourism dollars. See any of them on the tentative future F1 calendars? Nope. Not unless they already have a racing "heritage" or a crapload of money to invest (Abu Dhabi, Singapore, Malaysia (oil money), South Korea (industrial money), India (industrial money).
Whenever us gearheads get together, we daydream about restarting the Manila GPs, held on the streets around Manila bay back in the 70's with participants from around the region... but an F1 race? If even the historic Macau circuit can't get on the F1 calendar, what chances do the likes of the Philippines and Puerto Rico have?
I think current F1 cars could do it if they raised the ride height quite a bit to deal with it.
Yes, F1 GPs generate revenue... but NOT at no cost to the hosting city. It can cost an incredible amount of money to host just a single GP.
That's why I said: You not only need the race itself, but you have to have the whole package, tourist sites, hotels, accomodations, other attractions... stuff that all the heavy swingers will want to stay for Monday after the race... otherwise, it's no go.
Our country has a tourism problem (not a huge one, but we could always use a leg up on Thailand)... but I don't see an F1GP curing that. Any potential hike in tourist revenues the weekend of the race will not cover the costs of running the GP if not enough people go to watch it in person.
That's the problem with Grand Prixs in places like China or *gasp* Indy... there's a $30m hosting fee (oops, now up to $40m plus) that organizers have to recoup... no matter how many people actually watch. (Shanghai attendance has been falling in recent years)
If you opt to build a racetrack instead of using a street circuit, you will never recoup the costs off of F1 alone. Sepang cost about $120m to build. Shanghai nearly half-a-billion dollars. Even if you have a rich calendar, there's no way a track like that will ever pay for itself... look at how many popular race circuits are in dire financial straits at the moment.
If you have a temporary street circuit, you need to invest in repaving before every race (and it has to be high quality, otherwise it'll disintegrate halfway through the race weekend), as well as thousands of barriers, temporary fencing, lights, pit garages, stands, etcetera... which have to be stored away between GPs (you can't just rent that much stuff).
----
There are a lot of countries around the world who could use some more tourism dollars. See any of them on the tentative future F1 calendars? Nope. Not unless they already have a racing "heritage" or a crapload of money to invest (Abu Dhabi, Singapore, Malaysia (oil money), South Korea (industrial money), India (industrial money).
Whenever us gearheads get together, we daydream about restarting the Manila GPs, held on the streets around Manila bay back in the 70's with participants from around the region... but an F1 race? If even the historic Macau circuit can't get on the F1 calendar, what chances do the likes of the Philippines and Puerto Rico have?
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A couple years ago, toyota f1 went to laguna seca and set a the lap record there so a race could be held and motogp already goes there every year
not to mention the track is located in monterey which is no stanger to motorsport so i think the only problem would be finding investers in the race
i have no idea what kinds of cost f1 races cost but i know that an indycar event runs around 4-5 million for a weekend of operating costs
not to mention the track is located in monterey which is no stanger to motorsport so i think the only problem would be finding investers in the race
i have no idea what kinds of cost f1 races cost but i know that an indycar event runs around 4-5 million for a weekend of operating costs
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1) No, a race can't be held there. The circuit does not hold the proper grading with the FIA.
2) If MotoGP and Indycar go there, is is unlikely Formula 1 will; Bernie seems to be in love with the idea of Formula 1 racing on circuits built for Formula 1.
3) It might cost four or five million for Indycar, but it costs at least thirteen million for Formula 1 - and that's just for the rights to host the event.
I don't know why people have trouble swallowing this, but Laguna Seca will not host Formula 1. At least not any time soon.
2) If MotoGP and Indycar go there, is is unlikely Formula 1 will; Bernie seems to be in love with the idea of Formula 1 racing on circuits built for Formula 1.
3) It might cost four or five million for Indycar, but it costs at least thirteen million for Formula 1 - and that's just for the rights to host the event.
I don't know why people have trouble swallowing this, but Laguna Seca will not host Formula 1. At least not any time soon.
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The question was more of a functional one... Sadly, I agree that the circuit probably wouldn't be able to meet Grade 1 certification... But it'd probably be a he'll of a lot safer than Monaco...
noisiaturismo
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Bring back Zandvoort.
Enough risky corners, good semi-straights, awesome first corner, it has all!!
TT Assen:
Looks like Shanghai a bit, but is only 4 km.
Enough risky corners, good semi-straights, awesome first corner, it has all!!
TT Assen:
Looks like Shanghai a bit, but is only 4 km.
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- astrosdude91
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Blasphemy!
Not disputing your comments on the need for the circuit to be grade 1 for them to compete there.
I've been the track several times, watched said Toyota F1 car run their, watched Andretti do parade laps in his championship winning JPS Lotus, and saw several 70's and 80's era F1 cars run there just this past August.
The circuit is defined by elevation change, there's no need for tremendously complex corners. And there's just enough differentiation between those you are referring to.
Since were on the subject of the purpose of the thread, should the title now read? -
"Formula 1 Abu Dhabi 2009. South Korea 2010. India 2011. United States 2012. Moscow 2013?"
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Think again, not a temporary street circuit, but on an FIA Grade 1, purpose-built, and permanent track.
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There isn't going to be a race in Hawaii.
Can we please limit discussion to expanding the calendar to include events that have actually expressed interest in hosting a race? That's what this thread is about. There has been no talk of bringing back Zandvoort or starting races at Assen, Laguna Seca, Puerto Rico or Hawaii. If you can't keep it on-topic, I'll ask the moderators to close this thread.
Assen was designed for bikes. It's not very good for cars.TT Assen:
Looks like Shanghai a bit, but is only 4 km.
Can we please limit discussion to expanding the calendar to include events that have actually expressed interest in hosting a race? That's what this thread is about. There has been no talk of bringing back Zandvoort or starting races at Assen, Laguna Seca, Puerto Rico or Hawaii. If you can't keep it on-topic, I'll ask the moderators to close this thread.
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OK, I understand that. Thank you for telling me about what this thread is about.
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- astrosdude91
Why can't it be a street circuit? A Grand Prix can also be a street circuit if you didn't know. That's why the Monaco Grand Prix in Monaco is called a Grand Prix even though it's a street circuit. There are other examples of this philosophy being used in Formula One.
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astrosdude91
prisonermonkeys
Look what he said: Stay on topic!
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- astrosdude91
Is that your way of weaseling out of the question?
ROAD_DOGG33J
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There were 2 moderators here recently.
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A press conference announcing a Noo Joy-zee Gron Pree for 2013 could be coming on Tuesday. It appears that this proposal (or something quite like it) would be the circuit.
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