FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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PzR Slim
And once again you confirm the suspicions off my previous post. There was no steering aid before just a bug that turned a 900 degree wheel into a 270 degree wheel when counter steering making it easier and quicker to reach large counter steering angles. That bug is now gone and we have full 1:1, none speed sensitive steering when using a 900 degree wheel.
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It is a steering aid in that it helps you keep control of a car because it requires less effort to countersteer by lowering the degrees for lock for lock. It is not active steering which countersteers for you. If it did not aid your steering then you should not find the handling any different or harder, after all it never aided you in the first place to keep in control of the car. If you want I call it a bug that made it easier for you to keep control of cars. The fundamental is, if it is helping you, it is usually some kind of aid. Like sensitivity option in GT5 for pad users is an aid to help you get faster as it allows quicker steering response but it is not steering / driving for you which FM3 did permanently.
 
saidur_ali
It is a steering aid in that it helps you keep control of a car because it requires less effort to countersteer by lowering the degrees for lock for lock. It is not active steering which countersteers for you. If it did not aid your steering then you should not find the handling any different or harder, after all it never aided you in the first place to keep in control of the car. If you want I call it a bug that made it easier for you to keep control of cars. The fundamental is, if it is helping you, it is usually some kind of aid. Like sensitivity option in GT5 for pad users is an aid to help you get faster as it allows quicker steering response but it is not steering / driving for you which FM3 did permanently.
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Seriously what planet are you on? It's certainly not GT planet. THE PATCH GOT RID OFF IT.
 
PzR Slim
Then what on earth have you been banging on about for the last five posts? I do not wish to discuss this with you any longer.
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Where did I deny the update fixing it for the 900 degress. I just answered back to your replies. Will answer the planet I'm on is definately not Forza Planet ;).
 
saidur_ali
after all it never aided you in the first place to keep in control of the car. If you want I call it a bug that made it easier for you to keep control of cars.
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The more I read that, the more my head hurts.

It never aided you to keep control of a car.

It made it easier to control the car.

Nope. Even after breaking it down it still sounds daft.
 
Spagetti69
The more I read that, the more my head hurts.

It never aided you to keep control of a car.

It made it easier to control the car.

Nope. Even after breaking it down it still sounds daft.
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I was referring to PzR Slim saying it is not an aid but without that different steering mapping, it is harder for him to drive. You agree that it was aiding him then?
 
saidur_ali
I was referring to PzR Slim saying it is not an aid but without that different steering mapping, it is harder for him to drive. You agree that it was aiding him then?
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No TBH.
When Forza first released people were over correcting because of the sudden 270 alteration. Buttsneeze mentioned it to be a game breaker as it was throwing him off his stride with corrections he hadn't inputted.

After a month of using that system your mind becomes adjusted to the quirk and you find a balance.

Then all of a sudden it's gone and people have to relearn.

Basically, originally harder. Then learnt, now harder again soon to be learnt.

Anyhow how can I comment on anything aiding anyone else's game. Each to there own.
 
Spagetti69
No TBH.
When Forza first released people were over correcting because of the sudden 270 alteration. Buttsneeze mentioned it to be a game breaker as it was throwing him off his stride with corrections he hadn't inputted.

After a month of using that system your mind becomes adjusted to the quirk and you find a balance.

Then all of a sudden it's gone and people have to relearn.

Basically, originally harder. Then learnt, now harder again soon to be learnt.
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Do you agree then pad users have no assistance at all as it is only different steering mapping?
 
saidur_ali
Do you agree then pad users have no assistance at all as it is only different steering mapping?
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Don't care.
It's like using my bollocks to walk. Not normal.
 
Amazing how this argument still continues, both games are great but they also both have there flaws. Some flaws effect people in different ways, for me the flaw Forza has with the leaderboards is keeping me off that game at the moment and i'm spending my time on GT5. It just comes down to preference at the end of the day, in other words what flaws you can put up with and what ones you can not.

Both games are receiving updates to make them a better experience for everybody, it's just the waiting game for these updates that is so painful.
 


Driving in the game still looks like it has no edge to the physics. Sure he was not driving on the ragged edge but it is similar look to how it was for me when I was pushing the cars in the demo. The AI are a bit crazy too it seems and not that fast.
 
saidur_ali


Driving in the game still looks like it has no edge to the physics. Sure he was not driving on the ragged edge but it is similar look to how it was for me when I was pushing the cars in the demo. The AI are a bit crazy too it seems and not that fast.
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You are really putting that forward as evidence? The person was driving like it was a Sunday afternoon. Braking 100 m before they needed to, changing down very low in the rev range not having any throttle input unless they front wheels are straight. What do you expect? Once again, please, only makes comments about how the game handles when you have played a patched version with a 900 degree wheel. Until then you haven't got a clue what you are talking about.
 
PzR Slim
You are really putting that forward as evidence? The person was driving like it was a Sunday afternoon. Braking 100 m before they needed to, changing down very low in the rev range not having any throttle input unless they front wheels are straight. What do you expect? Once again, please, only makes comments about how the game handles when you have played a patched version with a 900 degree wheel. Until then you haven't got a clue what you are talking about.
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It is the first video I found on YouTube with the update applied. I was not being selective.
Even driving like it was a Sunday afternoon, it was good enough to win. Doesn't speak much for the AI does it.

I doubt many play Forza with a 900 degree wheel, does that mean the majority of Forza players have no clue about what they are talking about? Even if I do get a 900 degree wheel and post footage of me driving in patched Forza 4, people will say well that is not possible in my version of the game or whatever and that I'm playing some hacked version or something. It is rather worrying that Turn 10 don't understand what is going on with the steering as I seen from posts that for 270 degrees, steering sensitivity is there according to your fellow PzR tagged driver. I feel that some Forza drivers need to take a step back and see how the physics really work.

Before it was easy and realistic, now for the same drivers it is harder but realistic. I kept my stance still the same, as I know what kind of driving works in Forza and what doesn't. The big difference in steering control between Forza 3 and Forza 4 is the removal of the active steering and I can see why they implemented as the game steering seems to be currently broken without it going by people's impressions so far. Hopefully they get it true 1:1 in time I get Forza 4 for all steering wheels and remove also potentially different steering sensitivity for pad users. They have got plenty of resources to manage to do that.
 
saidur_ali
It is the first video I found on YouTube with the update applied. I was not being selective.
Even driving like it was a Sunday afternoon, it was good enough to win. Doesn't speak much for the AI does it.
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So you know what setting the AI was on?

saidur_ali
I doubt many play Forza with a 900 degree wheel, does that mean the majority of Forza players have no clue about what they are talking about?
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Nope but then most Forza players have played FM4 extensively unlike you ;)

saidur_ali
Even if I do get a 900 degree wheel and post footage of me driving in patched Forza 4, people will say well that is not possible in my version of the game or whatever and that I'm playing some hacked version or something.
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Stop doing this. You talk as if you know how the game feels with the new patch and a 900 degree wheel. When the FACT of the matter is you have no idea because you haven't played it. You have no idea how the game now feels with a 900 degree wheel.

saidur_ali
It is rather worrying that Turn 10 don't understand what is going on with the steering as I seen from posts that for 270 degrees, steering sensitivity is there according to your fellow PzR tagged driver.
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I take it you are talking about PzR Crazy or Phil T as he is known as round here. Well lets see exactly what he had to say instead of your 'interpretation'.

I've had a good 30 minute session looking at the Patch

1. 900 Degree Steering is perfect, 1:1, no speed sensitivity, perfectly linear, and no issues at all, it's flippin savage though!

2. 270 Degree steering is the same as before, speed sensitive steering/non linearity etc. At first I was a little dismayed, I hoped they'd clean it up a bit (telemetry wobbles a lot). Lukcily I found switching to a pre-set with 900 degree SENS, then back to a pre-set with 270 gives you all the benefits of the 900 Degree perfectness!!!
- The result? Undriveable.. there is a reason cars don't have 270 degree steering, it's so twitchy, and so stupidly quick steering, it's just useless.. I can see why T10 have speed sensitive stuff in there, it is how it should be IMO, and all I can say is other games that allow you to remotely have a driveable car are adding in similar stuff, 1:1 perfect steering at 270 degrees is just not feasible, you need linearity and other things to make it usable.

3. The LSB/RSB buttons on the PWTS still aren't mapped to look left/right ala FM3..

4. Speedwheel Rumble seems better!



Just checking out the speed wheel now..
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So looks as though he is suggesting that T10 know exactly what they are doing with the steering as in his words with proper 1:1 270 degree steering the game is 'Undriveable'.

saidur_ali
I feel that some Forza drivers need to take a step back and see how the physics really work.
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They know exactly how the physics works because unlike you they have played the game intesively.

saidur_ali
Before it was easy and realistic, now for the same drivers it is harder but realistic. I kept my stance still the same, as I know what kind of driving works in Forza and what doesn't.
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No you don't you haven't played FM4, you have no idea what works and doesn't work. Please stop making out that you do.

saidur_ali
The big difference in steering control between Forza 3 and Forza 4 is the removal of the active steering and I can see why they implemented as the game steering seems to be currently broken without it going by people's impressions so far.
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This is just lies. The vast majority of people in this thread have said the steering fix is a vast improvement, most people on other forums have said the same thing.

saidur_ali
Hopefully they get it true 1:1 in time I get Forza 4 for all steering wheels and remove also potentially different steering sensitivity for pad users. They have got plenty of resources to manage to do that.
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Once again you prove your total lack of understanding of the matters at hand with comments like this.
 
Last time I checked T10 did address the steering glitch on an update about a month ago or something like that.

saidur_ali
The big difference in steering control between Forza 3 and Forza 4 is the removal of the active steering and I can see why they implemented as the game steering seems to be currently broken without it going by people's impressions so far.
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The is another big difference: the weight displacement and mass dynamics, there is no assists in FM4 (unless you switch them on obviously), FM steering wheel response actually feels correct, the steering glitch was actually a glitch that locked the direction to a certain angle, but now it responds accordingly.

These are the sort of things that can be noticed when someone play the game (updated to date).
 
MildAshers
The steering now feels fabulous after the patch, I dunno what people are complaining about regarding it.
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I think they are complaining because they are no longer good at the game and it couldn't possibly be them at fault ;)

I think it's fantastic, yes it takes time to get used to the change and I'm still getting bitten by the change but it makes the game so much more involving 👍
 
saidur_ali


Driving in the game still looks like it has no edge to the physics. Sure he was not driving on the ragged edge but it is similar look to how it was for me when I was pushing the cars in the demo. The AI are a bit crazy too it seems and not that fast.
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Why are you commenting on physics when it's obvious he is using every single assist possible?

Well, obvious to anyone who actually plays the game instead of watching videos of it.
 
@saidur_ali

Why do you insist on debating, especially when it comes to physics and control topics, when you don't even own FM4 :crazy: A number of us "own" GT and FM and own Fanatec wheels that work on both - needed for apples to apples comparisons. Using second hand knowledge is not going to support any claims you may make anyway. There are MANY more threads in the GT forum that you could possibly contribute to in a knowledgeable manner. Not trying to be an ass, just gets old.
 
After the patch, the game is definately better! I cant say how realistic the physics are right now. The only thing I can say is, I play sims for years now. I never had that much trouble with the steering. There is this point of no return, where you cant do anything to get the control of the car back. Nothing helps, no braking, no release of the throttle, nothing. It happens even with low speeds.

The rear begins to oversteer and then you cant do anything. As I said, I dont know how it would be in real life in an BMW M3 or BMW M5 but I never had these problems in any other game.

Will give it another try.
 
I played both games, FM2, FM3, FM4, And gran turismo 5.
I can totally say, none of the games better than other.
Its just +'s and -'

Forza has amazing car library, and amazingly right-true recorded engine sounds, fast menu system, excellent car looking mode ''Autovista''.

GT has best graphics, in game-photo-replay mode, amazing car quality in photo mode.

Forza has engine brake, and more damage system like if you dont push the clutch in right time, clutch getting damaged and gears shifting like non sense.
But forza's cars too much skidding like theres oil on the asphalt, even the lexus lfa and some supercars skidding on asphalt.

Sorry for my bad english.
 
Mhh, no, even with at least 3-4 years of SIM racing experience, I cant drive in Forza 4. The car acts totaly strange when you even turn the wheel only 10 degrees and spins out. Especially with this patch, the steering must be much smoother. Something does not work for me. As I said, I dont know how realistic it is. But I cant imagine that it can be that hard to drive even B-Class cars...

I use 900 degree with my Fanatec GT2
Force Feedback 100 and ingame full
 
Sele1981
Mhh, no, even with at least 3-4 years of SIM racing experience, I cant drive in Forza 4. The car acts totaly strange when you even turn the wheel only 10 degrees and spins out. Especially with this patch, the steering must be much smoother. Something does not work for me. As I said, I dont know how realistic it is. But I cant imagine that it can be that hard to drive even B-Class cars...

I use 900 degree with my Fanatec GT2
Force Feedback 100 and ingame full
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Make sure advanced settings in game deadzone set to 0

Add 20 linearity to on wheel settings and it's perfect. No deadzone no Twitchyness.
 

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