FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[SuperShouden]

I would have to say the crash physics between the two games are equally as crappy. Forza still has the tail stand physics and GT has the ballerina physics. Both pretty bad, yet, for now, both will have to do.

 

[James1436]

I would have to say the crash physics between the two games are equally as crappy. Forza still has the tail stand physics and GT has the ballerina physics. Both pretty bad, yet, for now, both will have to do.

Personally, I think NFS Shift 2 has the best console "sim" crash physics , but I personally don't see the point of crashing cars I like. It hurts me

 

[Raitziger]

Fanatec has posted comments about new patch:
"The steering mode "simulation" let all cars oversteer more easily. Even the slowest Nissan Datsun 510 going uphill on Fujimi Kaido will oversteer easily although the power of the car is not enough to go higher than second gear most of the time. Do an oval track with a Mercedes C63 and you will fly off in every corner. Tim Schrick mentioned the tendency to oversteer the virtual M5 already on his comparision to the real car and he was using the old simulation mode.

I think the problem is not the oversteering but calling the mode "simulation". If T10 would have chosen "drift mode" it would have been more appropriate and still makes sense as it is fun to play. Remember: difficult not equal to realistic. "
http://911wheel.de/?q=node/7389

Sorry but could not resist to post this here

 

[PzR Slim]

Fanatec has posted comments about new patch:
"The steering mode "simulation" let all cars oversteer more easily. Even the slowest Nissan Datsun 510 going uphill on Fujimi Kaido will oversteer easily although the power of the car is not enough to go higher than second gear most of the time. Do an oval track with a Mercedes C63 and you will fly off in every corner. Tim Schrick mentioned the tendency to oversteer the virtual M5 already on his comparision to the real car and he was using the old simulation mode.

I think the problem is not the oversteering but calling the mode "simulation". If T10 would have chosen "drift mode" it would have been more appropriate and still makes sense as it is fun to play. Remember: difficult not equal to realistic. "
http://911wheel.de/?q=node/7389

Sorry but could not resist to post this here

All he is saying is that in his opinion the 'normal' mode is the more realistic one. And setting Lin to 20 in the wheel settings improves things greatly. Quite funny to see that you have been so quiet in this thread when people were reporting good things about the handling since the patch yet as soon as one negative comment is made by someone you pop up (and post the same thing in multiple threads incidentally). You are the very epitome of the word.

 

[Raitziger]

All good of course. They are listening forums and improving the game. Our complaints were not wasted then.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Game continues to improve, and retains the best sim on console title.

 

[HBK]

That bug is now gone and we have full 1:1, none speed sensitive steering when using a 900 degree wheel.

We don't have full 1:1, not in simulation steering mode anyway (didn't try normal mode ...)

The steering is non-linear. It's subtle, but it's there. The steering is slightly more sensitive around the "center". It can easily be checked with the ingame telemetry, assuming the ingame telemetry is accurate of course.

It's not that big of a deal, the game feels awesome with the latest patch, but we don't have true 1:1 steering (in simulation steering mode anyway).

Edit : By the way, does anyone have a reliable list of differences between "normal" and "simulation" steering ?

 

[Bogie 19th]

Actually we do have 1:1 in sim mode.

 

[HBK]

No, we don't. Steering is not linear, unless I'm missing some hidden setting.

Edit : Not that it's a big deal anyway, but let's call a spade a spade.

 

[Clerigo]

I played both games, FM2, FM3, FM4, And gran turismo 5.
I can totally say, none of the games better than other.
Its just +'s and -'

Forza has amazing car library, and amazingly right-true recorded engine sounds, fast menu system, excellent car looking mode ''Autovista''.

GT has best graphics, in game-photo-replay mode, amazing car quality in photo mode.

Forza has engine brake, and more damage system like if you dont push the clutch in right time, clutch getting damaged and gears shifting like non sense.
But forza's cars too much skidding like theres oil on the asphalt, even the lexus lfa and some supercars skidding on asphalt.

Sorry for my bad english.

I totally agree

Mhh, no, even with at least 3-4 years of SIM racing experience, I cant drive in Forza 4. The car acts totaly strange when you even turn the wheel only 10 degrees and spins out. Especially with this patch, the steering must be much smoother. Something does not work for me. As I said, I dont know how realistic it is. But I cant imagine that it can be that hard to drive even B-Class cars...

I use 900 degree with my Fanatec GT2
Force Feedback 100 and ingame full

x2

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

Mhh, no, even with at least 3-4 years of SIM racing experience, I cant drive in Forza 4. The car acts totaly strange when you even turn the wheel only 10 degrees and spins out. Especially with this patch, the steering must be much smoother. Something does not work for me. As I said, I dont know how realistic it is. But I cant imagine that it can be that hard to drive even B-Class cars...

I use 900 degree with my Fanatec GT2
Force Feedback 100 and ingame full

Sorry, something doesn't sound right with your setup. To me, with a Fanatec CSR and Elite pedals, the steering AFTER the latest update is not that different...until you push and are racing on the ragged edge. Steering feels very much like before the patch but is harder to "catch" the car. After the patch I started with my slower cars and worked up (E, D, C...). Only until you get to the very fast cars is the new simulated steering a handful - but as it should be. It shouldn't be easy to catch most cars on a turn at 110MPH. There just now needs to be an adjustment to the steering ratio on the fast cars - just like IRL. My 57' Bel Air with 900 deg. steering feels so realistic. When I get in my Ferrari I change the ratio to 720 deg. and can race just fine.

I now find the physics and control of FM to be right up there with some of the best on the PC - with a good wheel setup. Having a blast!

 

[Spagetti69]

I totally agree

His English wasn't that bad TBH.

 

[Daverytimes]

Personally, I think NFS Shift 2 has the best console "sim" crash physics , but I personally don't see the point of crashing cars I like. It hurts me

Nah, Grid still has the best crash physics of any console racer. I will sue PD if they don't improve the crappy 🤬 we have now.

 

[MHPALA]

Nah, Grid still has the best crash physics of any console racer. I will sue PD if they don't improve the crappy 🤬 we have now.

Be happy GT5 isnt using damage models (damage rendered 3d meshes) like Shift or Grid. It uses point deformation (simulated) crashes, but you wont see any damaged parts, just dents. I think its a unique system and with further development it can turn into better visual damage (simulation FTW). GTA IV uses the same technique for car damage 👍. So logically GT5s collision system pwns, it just needs some work.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Be happy GT5 isnt using damage models (damage rendered 3d meshes) like Shift or Grid. It uses point deformation (simulated) crashes, but you wont see any damaged parts, just dents. I think its a unique system and with further development it can turn into better visual damage (simulation FTW). GTA IV uses the same technique for car damage 👍. So logically GT5s collision system pwns, it just needs some work.

You mad bro?

 

[MHPALA]

You mad bro?

No, there's a point of deformation on my knee

 

[cuco33]

The importance of a damage system in a racing sim isn't the visual fluff but rather the realistic effects to a car's performance after an incident. The visuals are nice, but not when the system itself isn't the best and if it's specific to certain game modes. Visually, it also is dependent on the car you have. Some cars dent easier than others while some cars you need to constantly crash to start seeing a good amount of deformation due to the accidents

GT5 doesn't 'pwn' anything since the damage system is specific to certain areas of the game and not consistent throughout. I can get my car to brake better by braking hard and redline pinging during downshifts. Do this in real life and you'll say bye bye to your engine or drivetrain very quickly.

 

[sgllocal]

Nah, Grid still has the best crash physics of any console racer. I will sue PD if they don't improve the crappy 🤬 we have now.

cannot wait for grid 2 in summer 2012. i loved the first one and am shocked that PD cannot sort out the damage. grid was or is the best game for car damage ive ever played. one big crash and your car is wrecked. whereas one big crash on gt5 and all you get is a lil black mark on the car with a slight bend in paintwork, very lame if you ask me

 

[DawidM]

FM2 + FM3 + FM4(no features without Autovista) <<< GT5

Only in the topic, speaking very briefly. I think we can close the topic.

 

[Terronium-12]

Where do these people keep coming from?

And that boldfaced statement makes nary a bit of sense.

 

[Akira AC]

Where do these people keep coming from?

I wonder the same thing, every time the thread gets bumped.

FM2 + FM3 + FM4(no features without Autovista) <<< GT5

"<<<" is an stream operator, which means that what he says is actually "GT5 -> FM2 + FM3 + FM4", which is just one way to understand it.


And I actually get some time to really play Fujimi Kaido, I must say that is one track that might give a competence to the current GT5+Nurburgring set-up, The LFA in that track is just a blast, it really gives that sense of challenge and complexity that GT5 gives with its Nurburgring, is such a shame that FM4 doesn't replicate Nurburgring layout/challenge that well.

That said, I'm actually quite impress by Infineon raceway's elevation changes, that track really shows the new physics model and what is capable of.

 

[Conza]

Well as far as I can tell, just my observations, having played Forza 4 for about 5-6 hours in a friend of mines game store (he works there all afternoon some days, so he let me play Forza 4 for a couple of days), it seems to come somewhere in between my old memories of Need For Speed (back when it was still cool), and Gran Turismo.

I'll be honest, I love some of the cars in there, and wish we could have them in GT, especially the Fiat 500 Abarth SS, the F10 M5, and maybe a few others, but I think the total amount of cars is less (could be wrong), and I don't like the tuning as much.

I also think that GT5's premium cars (fewer they may be) look about 10-15% better than their Forza counterparts, much may be attributed to the graphics output (PS3 being able to use 1080p, 360 last I checked couldn't), but I really think that more time went into each GT5, just from the look I got at the cars.

There are several similarities which everyone should rule out. They all have cars, story modes, garages of sorts, credits, on and on it goes. I much prefer GT5's tuning, Forza's was more difficult to get into, tire pressures and such weren't of any interest to me, but some things were slightly more detailed, particularly engine mods and things like that, which I think in time I might've learnt to enjoy.

What did it for me, after 6 odd hours of playing, the gameplay didn't hold up to my opinion of GT5's gameplay; the controls weren't quite right somehow, the AI was off a bit, but I think what we should remember is GT5 tries to be 'the best racing game' and Forza just tries to be 'a racing game' (in my opinion), which is also why when I see Forza getting a higher score on review, I think they take that into account.

So, if I had a 360 and a PS3, would I buy it? Probably. Is it worth buying a new or even a used 360 to play it? Not really (imo), but it is likely the next best racing game after GT5 (imo), and if I couldn't afford to buy a PS3, had a 360 and wanted a racing game, Forza is pretty good.

 

[Spagetti69]

@Conza what Wheel did you use mate?
Can't say I agree with your GT's better tuning options. Your opinion though, that's cool.

 

[azrael1965]

The last few days i played FM4 more than GT5 because i got a cheap Gold Membership offer. But i dislike the fact that there is new rival race, i can't participate in , because i didn't buy the december dlc. There are just no cars i really want to have in the pack.

 

[Conza]

@Conza what Wheel did you use mate?
Can't say I agree with your GT's better tuning options. Your opinion though, that's cool.

Yeah, I think if someone sat down and conducted a scientific, purely objective comparison on the tunings, it'd be a pretty close score indeed, so I'm totally biased, so its totally mo.

Look good point, I didn't use a wheel, I just used the 360 controller, but I had experience using that controller (since I once owned a 360, before I traded it in for a PS3), and I had experience using a controller for GT5, so my comparison is between PS3+DS3 vs. 360+360C. If I have the money, time and energy, I would buy a 360 and the game, plug it into my monitor/speakers, and if the DFGT (my PS3 wheel I have now), worked with the 360, I could do a better comparison, but I don't, and don't and don't, so I won't .

What's your thoughts with it all?

 

[Vaxxtx]

Yeah, I think if someone sat down and conducted a scientific, purely objective comparison on the tunings, it'd be a pretty close score indeed, so I'm totally biased, so its totally mo.

Look good point, I didn't use a wheel, I just used the 360 controller, but I had experience using that controller (since I once owned a 360, before I traded it in for a PS3), and I had experience using a controller for GT5, so my comparison is between PS3+DS3 vs. 360+360C. If I have the money, time and energy, I would buy a 360 and the game, plug it into my monitor/speakers, and if the DFGT (my PS3 wheel I have now), worked with the 360, I could do a better comparison, but I don't, and don't and don't, so I won't .

What's your thoughts with it all?

Not at all. Tuning in FM4 is much, much more in depth than in GT5. That statement is silly, imo. Upgrades + tuning in FM4 has so many more options over GT5.

I would go to say even the driving physics are much better in FM4. Using a wheel, clutch, and shifter is night and day between the 2.

Side note: Logi wheels are not supported by Xbox. As of now the best wheel (imo of course) is a Fanatec. The newer ones work on PS3, XBox, and PC. They can also be setup any way you want.

 

[ERIC11940]

When I first known Forza in 2006, I thought it was a GT rip-off, but when I watched the Forza Motorsport Showdown in 2007, I decided to give Forza a chane and started to like the series and got FM2 and a fat Xbox 360 for Christmas.

I was going to get FM3 for Christmas in 2009, but my parents didn't have the money for it. Even if I'm getting Forza 4 for Christmas, I still prefer Gran Turismo over Forza cuz I've grew up with it sense Christmas of 1998.

I just hope that GT6 will be alot better then GT5 and Forza in future.

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

When I first known Forza in 2006, I thought it was a GT rip-off, but when I watched the Forza Motorsport Showdown in 2007, I decided to give Forza a chane and started to like the series and got FM2 and a fat Xbox 360 for Christmas.

I was going to get FM3 for Christmas in 2009, but my parents didn't have the money for it. Even if I'm getting Forza 4 for Christmas, I still prefer Gran Turismo over Forza cuz I've grew up with it sense Christmas of 1998.

I just hope that GT6 will be alot better then GT5 and Forza in future.

Keep an open mind... why restrict yourself when you have both a PS3 and Xbox. If you enjoy motosports, especially a broad car selection (US, European, and Asian), you will enjoy FM4. FM4 does many things right and with a good wheel you can feel the great physics. I own both, but right now FM4 has GT5 beat. Maybe GT6 will turn the tables again and if so I will buy that also. I could care less for T10 or PD, whomever can provide the software for my virtual racing fix will get my dollar.

 

[hayward101]

I will sue PD if they don't improve the crappy 🤬 we have now.

ahhh sue! the word that americans LOVE!!! hahahaha you mad bro

i agree tho, grid was boss!!

 

[bullet360]

I'll admit that forza feels great and probly will feel a whole lot better than gt5 to numerous amounts of people. The communities are great and the variety of tracks and customization T10 has to offer is beyond pleasant... But there's just something about running around in gt5 at the ring either watching the sun come up or watching the rain pore down... No matter what theres always bin that little bit of something that makes me want to play the gt series all over again. Gran turismo 3's 10 year anniversary was back in september and l found myself trying to beat time trial lap times l set back when l was 8... Maybe im too fond of my past to move on, but you have to be pretty ignorant to not give credit to T10 for not only stepping up to the plate, but also delivering a genuinely satisfactory game followers and new-comers would enjoy.