VCRC Volvo Estate Wagon Race Event *Congrats to carracerptp & chuyler1

Great races 👍
Had fun, but I didn't like deep forest as much, I think it was too wide a track.
Can't make tonights race, I need to do some FMSC practice.
 
Shockingly good fun. What's more I discovered that my Volvo has less than 15,000 kms on the clock! That's why I had so much power.

Some great battles in the evening event.

Thanks for some great races!
 
Early Event RESULTS

Congrats to points winner carracerptp in the Chrome Estate w/ Lime Green rims. ;)

  1. carracerptp / carracerptp / Chrome & Lime Green (50pts)
  2. jammy21 / GTP_Jammy / yellow (46pts)
  3. Zorrin / DitQuois / blue & red (42pts)
  4. AlfaBob46 / AlfaBob46 / light blue (36pts)
  5. Naptown25rs / NCemtB / Passionate Pink & Lime Green (28pts)
  6. IMZIZ / IMZIZ / Monte Carlo Blue Pearl & Evolution Orange (22pts)
  7. watermelonpunch / wat3rm370n / Lavender & Pearl Light Yellow (19pts)
  8. tonyNOS / tonyNOS_USA / Maziora Mazeran (18pts)
  9. dmihaylov / mitaches / blue (16pts)
  10. turbogeit / turbogeit / white (16pts)
  11. jackargent / jackargent / yellow peril & blood orange (11pts)
  12. Geeky30 / Geeky30 / orange (11pts)
  13. SSXRid3R / SSXRid3R / Le Mans Blue & white (6pts)

Race #1 @ Autumn Ring Mini
  1. carracerptp / carracerptp / Chrome & Lime Green
  2. IMZIZ / IMZIZ / Monte Carlo Blue Pearl & Evolution Orange
  3. jammy21 / GTP_Jammy / yellow
  4. Zorrin / DitQuois / blue & red
  5. Naptown25rs / NCemtB / Passionate Pink & Lime Green
  6. AlfaBob46 / AlfaBob46 / light blue
  7. SSXRid3R / SSXRid3R / Le Mans Blue & white
  8. watermelonpunch / wat3rm370n / Lavender & Pearl Light Yellow
  9. dmihaylov / mitaches / blue
  10. jackargent / jackargent / yellow peril & blood orange
  11. Geeky30 / Geeky30 / orange
  12. tonyNOS / tonyNOS_USA / Maziora Mazeran

Race #2 @ Deep Forest
  1. carracerptp / carracerptp / Chrome & Lime Green
  2. IMZIZ / IMZIZ / Monte Carlo Blue Pearl & Evolution Orange
  3. jammy21 / GTP_Jammy / yellow
  4. Zorrin / DitQuois / blue & red
  5. Naptown25rs / NCemtB / Passionate Pink & Lime Green
  6. tonyNOS / tonyNOS_USA / Maziora Mazeran
  7. AlfaBob46 / AlfaBob46 / light blue
  8. turbogeit / turbogeit / white
  9. jackargent / jackargent / yellow peril & blood orange
  10. dmihaylov / mitaches / blue
  11. watermelonpunch / wat3rm370n / Lavender & Pearl Light Yellow
  12. Geeky30 / Geeky30 / orange

Race #3 @ Madrid Mini
  1. jammy21 / GTP_Jammy / yellow
  2. carracerptp / carracerptp / Chrome & Lime Green
  3. Geeky30 / Geeky30 / orange
  4. AlfaBob46 / AlfaBob46 / light blue
  5. Zorrin / DitQuois / blue & red
  6. turbogeit / turbogeit / white
  7. tonyNOS / tonyNOS_USA / Maziora Mazeran
  8. dmihaylov / mitaches / blue
  9. jackargent / jackargent / yellow peril & blood orange
  10. watermelonpunch / wat3rm370n / Lavender & Pearl Light Yellow

Race #4 @ Rome
  1. jammy21 / GTP_Jammy / yellow
  2. carracerptp / carracerptp / Chrome & Lime Green
  3. Zorrin / DitQuois / blue & red
  4. AlfaBob46 / AlfaBob46 / light blue
  5. watermelonpunch / wat3rm370n / Lavender & Pearl Light Yellow
  6. Naptown25rs / NCemtB / Passionate Pink & Lime Green
  7. tonyNOS / tonyNOS_USA / Maziora Mazeran
  8. turbogeit / turbogeit / white
  9. dmihaylov / mitaches / blue
  10. jackargent / jackargent / yellow peril & blood orange

Race #5 @ Lemons Country Circuit
  1. Zorrin / DitQuois / blue & red
  2. AlfaBob46 / AlfaBob46 / light blue
  3. carracerptp / carracerptp / Chrome & Lime Green
  4. Naptown25rs / NCemtB / Passionate Pink & Lime Green
  5. jammy21 / GTP_Jammy / yellow
  6. watermelonpunch / wat3rm370n / Lavender & Pearl Light Yellow
  7. dmihaylov / mitaches / blue
  8. turbogeit / turbogeit / white
  9. tonyNOS / tonyNOS_USA / Maziora Mazeran
  10. jackargent / jackargent / yellow peril & blood orange
 
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I loved jackargent's sign on message for this event...
"Volvo, safety in numbness"
I got a laugh out of that one! :)


I love the ads you post tony! :lol:

I have to say I'm glad you have a sense of humour after Race #1 at Autumn Ring Mini!
I watched the replay and it looked like your car was stuck in slow motion. :scared: It was bizarre, so unusual, and therefore rather humourous.
I just kept laughing and laughing, that you were so outraged about getting lapped, just to find that you had the power limiter stuck down. :boggled: :lol:

But at least if you were lapped on any track, it was one that's less than 1mile long. LOL

My Estate will now need to be retired as it is down to 130hp. And I'm just not competitive & fast enough to run with that kind of handicap. :eek: :ill:

But at least I can take comfort in that I didn't run any of the races with less than 75hp!!
That really must've been perplexing and frustrating. You're a real sport for sticking it out with clearly something wrong with your car!!!
I salute your perseverance! 👍
 
It was good fun. Next time I'll do manual transmission. Automatic in this car is just horrible. :D
 
Late Event RESULTS

Congrats to points winner Chuyler1 in the totally vintage looking orange Estate ;)

  1. chuyler1 / chuyler1 / totally vintage looking orange (23pts)
  2. Zorrin / DitQuois / blue & red (17pts)
  3. Naptown25rs / NCemtB / Passionate Pink & Lime Green (12pts)
  4. dabneyd / dabneyd / green & gold (10pts)
  5. watermelonpunch / wat3rm370n / Lavender & Pearl Light Yellow (4pts)

Race #1 @ Autumn Ring Mini

  1. chuyler1 / chuyler1 / totally vintage looking orange
  2. Zorrin / DitQuois / blue & red
  3. Naptown25rs / NCemtB / Passionate Pink & Lime Green
  4. dabneyd / dabneyd / green & gold
  5. watermelonpunch / wat3rm370n / Lavender & Pearl Light Yellow

Race #2 @ Deep Forest

  1. chuyler1 / chuyler1 / totally vintage looking orange
  2. Zorrin / DitQuois / blue & red
  3. Naptown25rs / NCemtB / Passionate Pink & Lime Green
  4. dabneyd / dabneyd / green & gold
  5. watermelonpunch / wat3rm370n / Lavender & Pearl Light Yellow

Race #3 @ Madrid Mini

  1. chuyler1 / chuyler1 / totally vintage looking orange
  2. Zorrin / DitQuois / blue & red
  3. Naptown25rs / NCemtB / Passionate Pink & Lime Green
  4. dabneyd / dabneyd / green & gold
  5. watermelonpunch / wat3rm370n / Lavender & Pearl Light Yellow

Race #4 @ Rome

  1. chuyler1 / chuyler1 / totally vintage looking orange
  2. Zorrin / DitQuois / blue & red
  3. Naptown25rs / NCemtB / Passionate Pink & Lime Green
  4. dabneyd / dabneyd / green & gold
  5. watermelonpunch / wat3rm370n / Lavender & Pearl Light Yellow

Race #5 @ Lemons Country Circuit

  1. chuyler1 / chuyler1 / totally vintage looking orange
  2. dabneyd / dabneyd / green & gold
  3. Zorrin / DitQuois / blue & red
 
It was good fun. Next time I'll do manual transmission. Automatic in this car is just horrible. :D

Yes yes it would be!
I did manual, and I'm not very good at it though... :indiff:

But there was some talk of perhaps it was because I was low on hp (because of so many miles on my car)... But I had to wait to shift until it was hitting the limit. If I shifted up earlier than right at the limit - the car was in slow motion!!! :yuck:

I now understand why others were perplexed about my hesitance to put the car on tracks with hills. My car was stuck in a very bad gear situation going up all inclines on Autumn Ring Mini, Deep Forest, and Lemons Country.
It seemed like I would be forced to shift it just at the worst possible timing for maintaining momentum. :yuck: :ill: :eek: :odd:
 
I owe watermelon an apology. I questioned her sanity running races in this crate!

But it was enormous fun with some great racing.

Still dread to think what she'll cook up next.
 
This was my first organised race meeting and it was good fun for the most part and will look to doing more in the future.
Watermelon thumbs up for organising a great event.

I was Checking the final results of the early race meeting and I am struggling to work out the points.
My score is 27???
I make it 36.
(if 12 cars in race first scores 12 , second is 11 and so on, correct? 10 cars first scores 10 correct?)
Could this be confirmed and amended.
 
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I owe watermelon an apology. I questioned her sanity running races in this crate!

But it was enormous fun with some great racing.

Still dread to think what she'll cook up next.


Schwimmwagen vs Kubelwagen, Ring, 10 Laps.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::eek:
 
@ Alfabob46
CORRECTED. :guilty: :( That was a mistake! SORRY.
I was tired with terrible allergies yesterday when I was doing this, all googly eyed. :eek:
I would use a ssheet, but I'd make more mistakes in that likely. :scared:

I did take some photomodes... Just haven't had a chance to do anything with them yet.

Schwimmwagen vs Kubelwagen, Ring, 10 Laps.
:banghead::banghead::banghead::eek:
Don't...just don't!

LOL

Schwimmwagen vs Kubelwagen @ Mount TopMore
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
This was fun, but these cars are painfully slow and even the slightest lift of the throttle in the wrong place could cause you to lose multiple positions.

Autumn Ring: This was a breeze for me since I qualified on the pole and ran a few 10ths faster per lap. Typically it is a very difficult track to pass on so I'm glad it wasn't reverse grid to start.

Deep Forest: I was down 2 hp from my competition and it showed the most on this track. Going up the hill I would lose about 1/2 a car length, enough to lose corner rights for the next section. When I finally got a break I messed it up by hitting the rock wall (you know the one) and then got rammed by the driver behind me. I pulled aside to let him go at the next turn. The race was neck and neck from that point on and I was destined for 2nd until I got lucky on the last turn and squeeked by as my opponent went wide into the grass.

Madrid: I got one warm-up lap in and I've never driven this track. Lap 1 was a little messy and I think we went 4 wide on the last turn which put someone into the outside wall. There was some honking. I was in the middle and squeeked up to the front...since I started last I figured I would give up the lead in case anyone was disgruntled about what happened. I fell back and worked my way up again, learning the track a little bit at a time. By the last lap I had things figured out and was just fast enough to stay ahead for another win.

Rome: This track was painfully boring in these cars. There was a little bit of bumping but it settled out. I hit the wall exiting the kink a few times but the race was long enough that I could fight back up to the front. It was a drag race through the final sector of the last lap and I had the outside. It gave me a faster entry to the final turn and I barely held the outside line for the win.

Lemons Circuit: I pulled an early lead but we lost a few drivers. I slowed and ducked behind the two drivers left and we had a good battle until I pulled away again. This track was the most fun in these cars. It was mostly open throttle but you had to push the brake zones to get fast laps and attempting a pass on the back straight with the left bend in it was challenging.



I think the next event needs to be in some faster cars. There just aren't enough slow tracks in the game to add excitement to these clunkers!
 
This was fun, but these cars are painfully slow and even the slightest lift of the throttle in the wrong place could cause you to lose multiple positions.

Yeah, I learned that the first race. I went from first to fifth in one turn.

I think the next event needs to be in some faster cars. There just aren't enough slow tracks in the game to add excitement to these clunkers!

Stock 245 with the big turbo?
 
Rome is one of my favourite tracks. I thought it was a lot of fun in the Early Event, but there were more cars on track. I had my throttle get stuck @ 1/4 in the Late Event @ Rome. (And caused an unfortunate obstruction while I was realizing what was going on. Sorry.)

There was some honking.

There was plenty of honking in both Madrid Mini races. It's a neurotic track.

I kind of like it in certain cars. The Estate being one of the rare cars I would suggest putting on there.

I think Madrid Mini Reverse is possibly the most aggravating track in the game. LOL

Plus, it seems that the crowd in the VCRC is very fond of their horns.
I will admit, I probably use my horn too often myself.
I've at times threatened "120 badgering penalty for excessive horn usage". :lol:
Every replay I watch usually involves a lot of boop boops & beep beeps.
There was one replay during the Mercedes 54 event where it seemed every car I clicked on brought up continual honking noise pollution. :boggled:

I think the next event needs to be in some faster cars. There just aren't enough slow tracks in the game to add excitement to these clunkers!

Well, I think the main problem was the shortage of cars in the Late Event.
And my car being way too handicapped for my ability. :guilty:

That's also why many VCRC members are quite fond of custom tracks. It is possible to design custom tracks very well-suited to slow cars.
As an example, I will mention the Toyota Sports 800 on eifel kart tracks like Phoon Hill ... very fun. 👍

But unfortunately, it seems like the North American population around here is frightened off by the prospect of racing on custom tracks.

Notice the only custom track club on GTPlanet (TCR) is running in the European time zone.
That's no coincidence.

Perhaps it is an overall cultural attitude issue. ?? I don't know.

But I just notice that a bulk of my fellow Americans, and Canadians, seem to be quite ready to pooh-pooh any track they haven't driven a million times before, and throw a wet blanket on any race that's not super-typical (read: boring).
 
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Rome is one of my favourite tracks. I thought it was a lot of fun in the Early Event, but there were more cars on track. I had my throttle get stuck @ 1/4 in the Late Event @ Rome. (And caused an unfortunate obstruction while I was realizing what was going on. Sorry.)



There was plenty of honking in both Madrid Mini races. It's a neurotic track.

I kind of like it in certain cars. The Estate being one of the rare cars I would suggest putting on there.

I think Madrid Mini Reverse is possibly the most aggravating track in the game. LOL

Plus, it seems that the crowd in the VCRC is very fond of their horns.
I will admit, I probably use my horn too often myself.
I've at times threatened "120 badgering penalty for excessive horn usage". :lol:
Every replay I watch usually involves a lot of boop boops & beep beeps.
There was one replay during the Mercedes 54 event where it seemed every car I clicked on brought up continual honking noise pollution. :boggled:



Well, I think the main problem was the shortage of cars in the Late Event.
And my car being way too handicapped for my ability. :guilty:

That's also why many VCRC members are quite fond of custom tracks. It is possible to design custom tracks very well-suited to slow cars.
I mention the Toyota Sports 800 on eifel kart tracks like Phoon Hill ... very fun. 👍

But unfortunately, it seems like the North American population around here is frightened off by the prospect of racing on custom tracks.

Notice the only custom track club on GTPlanet (TCR) is running in the European time zone.
That's no coincidence.

Perhaps it is an overall cultural attitude issue. ?? I don't know.

But I just notice that a bulk of my fellow Americans, and Canadians, seem to be quite ready to pooh-pooh any track they haven't driven a million times before, and throw a wet blanket on any race that's not super-typical (read: boring).

I like racing on tracks I'v never been on.
This was my first race and first laps on Madrid Mini.

It seems people think SPA, grand valley, Nurb, deep forest and Suzuka are the only tracks in the game, both the NA, EURO nations.

My only complaint is people that think a car like the Volvo is "too slowww and neeeedddsss more horse..powarrr to be fun".
 
My only complaint is people that think a car like the Volvo is "too slowww and neeeedddsss more horse..powarrr to be fun".

i agree. Its really hard work to keep these "slow" cars going and going fasties as they can go. Its really fun. I like karts and this Volvo was more like same as you drive karts.
 
That's also why many VCRC members are quite fond of custom tracks.
...
But unfortunately, it seems like the North American population around here is frightened off by the prospect of racing on custom tracks.

...

But I just notice that a bulk of my fellow Americans, and Canadians, seem to be quite ready to pooh-pooh any track they haven't driven a million times before, and throw a wet blanket on any race that's not super-typical (read: boring).


As a generality, I agree that most people avoid custom tracks. The reason I like them so much, though, is they can be created in ways that real tracks can not.

Current safety regulations have really toned down the excitement that was automobile racing from the early years all the way through the 70s and even 80s. With tracks created in the track generator, you can get off-camber turns, wild elevation changes, narrow tracks with no run-off. These things are impossible in the real world, but are well suited to low-powered slower vintage cars. They reveal a car's true character, and highlight the varied skills (and shortcomings) of each driver.

I love them, and will race on them whenever my schedule lets me.
 
I like racing on tracks I'v never been on.
This was my first race and first laps on Madrid Mini.

Amazing... Many people apparently never tried this track before.
Obviously it's entirely unsuitable for a great many car selections... And particularly anything at a high PP. :scared:
My spouse & I laugh when a shuffle host decides to put 480-500 pp shuffle cars on tracks like Madrid Mini or London... and then decides to put 360pp-420pp shuffle cars on tracks like Sarthe. :boggled: Then you wind up in an Evo hitting the limiter on the straight. :yuck:

But being in the Low HP League, season 1, Madrid Mini was one of the first tracks I raced in an organized online race.
It was also a very fun selection during the kei car seasonal. I put every old kei car I had through that seasonal race... very fund "grind". lol

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It seems people think SPA, grand valley, Nurb, deep forest and Suzuka are the only tracks in the game, both the NA, EURO nations.

I agree, of course.
And my singling out of North Americans is due to when I try to schedule vintage races in a North American friendly time slot.

I use this event as an example.

Early Event (Euro friendly schedule)
14 sign-ups, 12 show-ups, minimum 10 cars in every race.
One guy who couldn't participate because he found at the last moment that his car was permanently disqualified from tuning: prohibited... so there would've been 13 show ups.

Late Event (North American friendly schedule)
6 sign ups. 5 show ups.
:boggled:

But this happens a lot. Whenever the event is... if it's a car that's unmodified, old, and lower in power, or any time it's a difficult handling unmodified car, or any time it's on tracks that aren't the jazz standards of GT5 tracks. :rolleyes:
Heaven forbid anyone suggest any tracks that are akin to the experimental work of Miles Davis or the occasional Dixieland selection. :lol:
(I'm turning into my mother speaking in metaphors. :guilty: :sly:)

I also notice that less experienced North Americans are more likely to just give up instead of trying to improve, or having fun in a race battling for 5th place instead of 1st or 2nd. :rolleyes:
Sorry for being blunt, but it seems to me more ego involved in the racing than the idea of actually having fun in a challenging car on an interesting track.
I see less of the "if I can't be in first place then I'm going to go hide in shame" attitude coming from Europeans. And more of the, "I'm doing my best and this is a fun idea, even if I have to battle for next-to-last" attitude coming from Europeans.
Which is why I suspect it might be a cultural issue.

My only complaint is people that think a car like the Volvo is "too slowww and neeeedddsss more horse..powarrr to be fun".

:lol:
Yes, I think that's quite silly.

Again, I HIGHLY recommend trying an unmodified Toyota Sports 800 on cc570's Phoon Hill eifel kart track.
Then talk to me about needing more power to be fun when you're sliding sideways off the track. :lol: lol
 
Madrid Mini Forward is rough because the last turn gets narrow if you get on the throttle too soon. You run out of track as you track-out and a driver trying to get inside you ends up squeezing you into the wall.

Madrid Mini Backward is rough because the back straight goes from wide to narrow and it has a very narrow section toward the end where drivers get confused as to how to stay side-by-side without pushing someone into a barrier.

Madrid Full Forward is fun, but there are a few places where a driver who misses his brake zone will get jammed into the barrier with his @ss sticking out far enough to block everyone else coming into the corner. The game could resolve this by ghosting a car that is stopped or attempting to reverse.

Madrid Full Reverse is so-so. The lines are pretty clear but occasionally someone gets jammed on the pit wall if they aren't paying attention and having the longest straight dead end into a very tricky chicane never works out well when drivers are hot headed and racing at the limit of grip.

As for custom tracks. I enjoy tracks that have clear and safe driving lines with just enough turns to be interesting but not so many that you get lost. If you can't memorize it in 2-3 laps, its too complex. I also like tracks that have variations in corner speeds. I find it difficult to create a realistic variety of corners. The Lemons circuit took over an hour of tinkering before I was happy. It's got a good turn 1, some nice twists, a banked hairpin, and a highspeed kink. I can't get that combo with an Eifel circuit unless I also want an off-camber hill crest turn where half the drivers end up in the wall on the first lap.
 
As for custom tracks. I enjoy tracks that have clear and safe driving lines with just enough turns to be interesting but not so many that you get lost. If you can't memorize it in 2-3 laps, its too complex.

My attitude is the exact opposite.

If you can memorize it in 2-3 laps, it's probably a bit boring. :lol:

Indeed, I like the tracks that are far too complex for anyone to ever learn well in a variety of cars.

In fact, my favourite type of custom track is a completely new randomly re-generated one that everyone's going on for the very first time, and nobody hits drive to do any recon before the race starts. :D 👍 :D

Even better - driving line disallowed - and preferably no ABS either. :)

Append: This is likely because I think it showcases, akin to what IMZIZ says, the ability of the car & the driver to DRIVE, rather than showcasing how many times someone has hot lap practiced around the same track over & over again to perfection. :rolleyes:

I don't have the time or the tolerance to do any such thing... I would be bored out of my mind and just do something else rather than that. But some people think that's fun. And I think that's where the difference in attitude & taste comes in.
(ie; I don't have the time on the ps3, nor the desire, to sit around in my lounge driving the same car on the same track lap after lap all by myself. :ill:)
 
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I see why some might like it, the ability to put everyone on the same playing field. But the racing is much more haphazard. The number of off-track experiences is greatly increased and drivers have no way of executing a well planned overtake if they don't know what is coming ahead. Simple tracks minimize driver mistakes due to the track and the excitement is created with battling and risking maneuvers while driving your vehicle at or close to the limit. On complex tracks that are impossible to memorize, you cannot race at the limit because you simply don't know what is around the corner.
 
I see why some might like it, the ability to put everyone on the same playing field.

Well, unfortunately, if we were racing typical cars on typical tracks like for example, other clubs on GTPlanet do... There would be enough of people of SIMILAR experience levels to compete excitingly & close in a spec race, with those of their own levels - with divisioning the races into entirely different lounges.

There just aren't enough people interested in vintage road cars to make this the case, particularly, obviously, in the NA friendly time slots.

So we do find that less familiar tracks in more difficult cars makes for closer more exciting racing.

But again, it's surely not to everyone's taste.
And those that it's not, are unfortunately then relegated to race series with GT300s or clubs that focus on performance cars.... because that's all that's out there. :(
 
I enjoyed the battles that the Volvo race put out, it was certainly a lot closer than I had expected.

I am always dubious about custom created tracks because you just don't know what you're going to get... However, yesterday I think I drove something like 10 laps of Lemons in the pre-race warmup and was already running 36.5. When we ran the race for the first event - I loved it.

I had such an amazing start, I got right on the outside of turn 1 and drove round what must have been 5 cars. By sector 3 I had somehow found myself now in 1st, and stayed there. My scepticism was put to rest. I guess this is a result of taking the effort to to make the track fun.

It was easy to learn for me and I would be all for tracks like that because as previously pointed then it's more down to driver errors rather than the track throwing you out. Some of the off-camber corners you can get on Mt. Aso are just a nightmare, but hellishly good fun.

Speed is fun, but generally the lower the power the closer the racing right? Of course I like to win, but I'd much rather have a really tough battle further down the field than cruising along. Like at Madrid Mini in the early event - fantastic fight with Turbo after a dreadful start where I outbraked myself and took out a car [or two] and tried to get out of the way as quick as possible.

Of course the other problem with the open lobbies is that usually it'll say for example: Clio Trophy. You think great, I have some of those - all in spec condition. And you take to the track and everyone has thrown on every imaginable upgrade. What's wrong with taking a Race Car and racing it in the condition that it is?

On that note if anyone would be interested in some 320i Touring Car action... Let me know. I'm itching to get something done in one of those. Low power but still capable of great racing!
 
I also notice that less experienced North Americans are more likely to just give up instead of trying to improve, or having fun in a race battling for 5th place instead of 1st or 2nd. :rolleyes:
Sorry for being blunt, but it seems to me more ego involved in the racing than the idea of actually having fun in a challenging car on an interesting track.
I see less of the "if I can't be in first place then I'm going to go hide in shame" attitude coming from Europeans. And more of the, "I'm doing my best and this is a fun idea, even if I have to battle for next-to-last" attitude coming from Europeans.
Which is why I suspect it might be a cultural issue.

Not this North American! I raced for fifth all night and it was fun!
 
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