◆ SNAIL [Enduro] Racing - Closed Until Further Notice

I think a drive through after the green flag would work. Maybe a better option would be have them restart at the back of the field but do a stop and go on the front straight at the time of the restart. Just have them come to a complete stop on the track and then restart at speed. This would only be if they pitted while pit road was closed. It could add some more strategy to the race. The damaged would have to make a decision on weather or not to pit while closed or try and catch the field.

JLBowler

I think a drive through after the green flag would work. Maybe a better option would be have them restart at the back of the field but do a stop and go on the front straight at the time of the restart. Just have them come to a complete stop on the track and then restart at speed. This would only be if they pitted while pit road was closed.

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So are you saying that instead of having them do a drive-through penalty by going into pit lane, they would just come to a stop on the track itself? I guess this would keep the pack closer together since they wouldn't experience nearly the same amount of time loss. However, any time loss from an actual drive-through penalty could be made up if there's another caution.

JLBowler

It could add some more strategy to the race. The damaged would have to make a decision on weather or not to pit while closed or try and catch the field.

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Exactly! The damaged cars will have to decide whether to just cut their losses and pit while pit lane is closed or risk passing pit lane only to not being able to catch up to the pack in time for the restart. Or even worse, do they risk passing pit lane and causing even more damage to their already crippled and difficult handling car?

Decisions, decisions.. I love the added layer of strategy that this adds!

zer05ive

Exactly! The damaged cars will have to decide whether to just cut their losses and pit while pit lane is closed or risk passing pit lane only to not being able to catch up to the pack in time for the restart. Or even worse, do they risk passing pit lane and causing even more damage to their already crippled and difficult handling car?

Decisions, decisions.. I love the added layer of strategy that this adds!

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if you bring out a cuation you should be REQUIRED to pit. period! (like a black flag) Caution came out for you because of damge... fix dat mess. if they bring out a cuation with 2 to go in the top running, decide not to pit to stay with the field and pull off a podium by blocking not raceing... not good joojoo. Planning on cautions shouldn't be a main strategy to win, it's the back up plan. Before i heard of mulligan cuations... with a field of a full 16... are you really interested in haveing 16 free "competition" cuations (32 minimum laps leaves 13 total raceing laps on motegi)? i like keeping the pack close, but, real life is you make a mistake, or get cuaght up in someone elses'... well...... thats raceing. not against mulligans... i actully think it sounds like a pretty fair way to compensate for real life happening (phone, kids, wheel unpluggin), just also want to keep it as Simulated as i can. i am also all about removing penalties... to avoid somone spinning... you may need to cut a corner, if you gain an extra spot.. PLEASE be respectful and give that spot back safely.

as for pace cars on track over 4 miles... the big ring in particular. your looking at extending the racetime SIGNIFIANTLY... with just one lap at 55 miles/hour your gonna waste 10 -13 minutes, sarthe, the ring, the cape, spa, (maybe include 3.5 mile tracks) -- all should maybe be considered not haveing saftey cars, big tracks... big risk, but i think full damage should remain, 15 mile lap.. would be a race of attrition.

Ok, so I've missed alot, but to address damaged cars during cautions... Just an idea.

Pit road is closed on caution until the pack is together and the caution car driver signals that pit road is open. If a driver feels his car is too badly damaged that it is hard for him to maintain pace car speed or handling, then they may pit immediately but will suffer a (back of the line) penalty. This means when the other cars pit when pit road is open, the drivers who pitted prior to pits being open, must drop back to the end of the field before the race restarts. example. If only one car pits before pits are open, he will have to restart dead last on the restart.

when cars pit, are they aloud to drive faster just to catch up to the pace car, then maintain caution speed?

spdrcr70x

if you bring out a cuation you should be REQUIRED to pit. period! (like a black flag) Caution came out for you because of damge... fix dat mess. if they bring out a cuation with 2 to go in the top running, decide not to pit to stay with the field and pull off a podium by blocking not raceing... not good joojoo. Planning on cautions shouldn't be a main strategy to win, it's the back up plan.

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I think you misunderstood my post. Obviously any car who brings out a caution would need to pit. However, once the caution period comes out, pit lane would be closed until the pack reaches it. So of course the ideal situation for a damaged car is to catch up to the pack so that it can pit with everyone else.

However, there may be circumstances where a damaged car has so much damage that they can either not catch up to the pack in time or simply cannot drive around the track again without risking even more damage. In situations like that, the driver of the damaged car has the option of pitting while pit lane is closed. Doing so would allow them to get fixed and catch up to the pack. However, the penalty for pitting while pit lane is closed is a drive-through penalty of some sort. So in effect, they would have to pit twice.

spdrcr70x

Before i heard of mulligan cuations... with a field of a full 16... are you really interested in haveing 16 free "competition" cuations (32 minimum laps leaves 13 total raceing laps on motegi)? i like keeping the pack close, but, real life is you make a mistake, or get cuaght up in someone elses'... well...... thats raceing. not against mulligans... i actully think it sounds like a pretty fair way to compensate for real life happening (phone, kids, wheel unpluggin), just also want to keep it as Simulated as i can. i am also all about removing penalties... to avoid somone spinning... you may need to cut a corner, if you gain an extra spot.. PLEASE be respectful and give that spot back safely.

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I'm am against mulligan penalties as well. I feel that if a driver has a single-car wreck, he should just pit and get repairs and then hope that there's a caution period that will allow him to catch back up to the pack. I don't think we have to keep the field together for the entire race, we just need to provide the possibility for the the field to be brought back together and I feel like the safety car periods would do that.

spdrcr70x

as for pace cars on track over 4 miles... the big ring in particular. your looking at extending the racetime SIGNIFIANTLY... with just one lap at 55 miles/hour your gonna waste 10 -13 minutes, sarthe, the ring, the cape, spa, (maybe include 3.5 mile tracks) -- all should maybe be considered not haveing saftey cars, big tracks... big risk, but i think full damage should remain, 15 mile lap.. would be a race of attrition.

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Yeah we talked about that during practice on Saturday night. It was generally felt by all that this safety car feature would not work on the Nordschleife. We were hoping that 'beal would change that track to either the GP/F or GP/D configurations. Otherwise, we'd need to shelf the safety car for that round because it would simply take too long to get to the pits.

zer05ive

I'm am against mulligan penalties. I feel that if a driver has a single-car wreck, he should just pit and get repairs and then hope that there's a caution period that will allow him to catch back up to the pack.

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As am I. However, I am all for allowing lapped drivers to regain a lap during a yellow.

zer05ive

Yeah we talked about that during practice on Saturday night. It was the general felt by all that this safety car feature would not work on the Nordschleife. We were hoping that 'beal would change that track to either the GP/F or GP/D configurations. Otherwise, we'd need to shelf the safety car for that round.

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Yeah, light damage for that round. I believe Beal already addressed this.

zer05ive

However, there may be circumstances where a damaged car has so much damage that they can either not catch up to the pack in time or simply cannot drive around the track again without risking even more damage. In situations like that, the driver of the damaged car has the option of pitting while pit lane is closed. Doing so would allow them to get fixed and catch up to the pack. However, the penalty for pitting while pit lane is closed is a drive-through penalty of some sort. So in effect, they would have to pit twice.
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that sounds solid, i am ofcourse just spitting out ideas, it's rough to hold cuations on a video game.

dabneyd

As am I. However, I am all for allowing lapped drivers to regain a lap during a yellow.

as for the big ring;

Yeah, light damage for that round. I believe Beal already addressed this.

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i still believe.. if you run full rules.. those are the rules, if you need to change the rules so people can bounce off the walls... then whats is realistic about that.
allowing lapped cars .. laps back on subsequent yellows is a great idea... IF we can actully keep track of whose a lapper, and what postion in relation to the leaders are they.

as for the big ring :
if it's a simple reason that people dont want to drive a 15 mile track with full damage... then maybe take the big track off, removing damge take away from the realism... i say this with nurburg as my absoute worst track and still willing to run full rules, ( i took the idea to learn all the other tracks rather then .. ONE huge one). i'll probably get damge on the infamous 1st turn, now count that the ring is a VERY narrow track... something everyone must deal with.

I know the ring has real history and prestiege behind it, but if the majority is to change the rules, then that particular track does not fit with this crowd.

i know this sounds like a dig to everyone that wants nurburg on the circut, i don't mean mallace, but i just dont think you should have to change the rules, to ensure everyone finishes while haveing fun. changing rules means it's not fun... if it's not fun... you should stop. tru test of skill is to finish burgring without hitting anything OR anyone. and consider the term "endurence".. in essence you can replace it with "attrition". what better test of attrition.. then full damage on the ring??!! 💡

i am looking forward to raceing with you guys and gals.... ofcourse anyone who wants to send a FR to me, i play about everynight.

one last thing... particular to me... i still cannot find a mic that will work clearly, i can hear fine, so long as only 2 or 3 people are talking.. anymore and things get staticy and phased out.... i have a keyboard.... will this be acceptable in order for me to participate??(pace car sounds like you want everyone to have a mic?)

jbica

Ok, so I've missed alot, but to address damaged cars during cautions... Just an idea.

Pit road is closed on caution until the pack is together and the caution car driver signals that pit road is open. If a driver feels his car is too badly damaged that it is hard for him to maintain pace car speed or handling, then they may pit immediately but will suffer a (back of the line) penalty. This means when the other cars pit when pit road is open, the drivers who pitted prior to pits being open, must drop back to the end of the field before the race restarts. example. If only one car pits before pits are open, he will have to restart dead last on the restart.

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If I understand your idea correctly, it may have already been addressed with this exchange between Bowler and I. In a nutshell, damaged car(s) can never gain an advantage over other cars that had to slow down for a safety car period caused by those same damaged car(s).

jbica

when cars pit, are they aloud to drive faster just to catch up to the pace car, then maintain caution speed?

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Yes, cars can drive as fast as they want as long as they don't pass up the pace car or the cars lined up behind it. Just to be clear, we've decided that there won't actually be a pace car on the track anymore. The lead driver will take on the pace car's duties and has to safely slow down to 60 mph during the caution. All of the other cars are to line up single-file behind the lead car and maintain a two car-length gap between the driver in front of them. You may have missed that critical update so I just wanted to make sure you knew.

beal , have you figured out the laps for this Saturday? I suggest 40 if we're going to run race with cautions.

Your thoughts?

cmbeal317

As for the pace car, I am ready to reintroduce it this week after hearing how well it went at the practice session. I would love to have this now that we've got a better structured way of doing it. If someone would like to help me out, I would really appreciate if someone could write up the new pace car rules and I'll add them to the first post. I think that would be better than telling me the rules and trying to figure out how to write it down, especially since I've yet to see it in action.

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I'll try to put something together to get us started. It'll just be a rough draft and then everyone can help tweak and refine it as needed. 👍

cmbeal317

As amazingwarrior pointed out, our final race at the Nurburgring would be way to much to implement the pace car, and for that night only we would be running with damage set to light.

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Yeah, I agree there's really no way to run the Nordschleife with heavy damage and expect there to be any sort of close racing. Personally, I would prefer just changing it to the GP/D or GP/F versions so that there we're not going back and forth on the damage settings. I just think that the best way for us to get better at driving with the new pace car rule it to keep on using it until we've got it down really well. I would hate for everyone to finally start getting comfortable with the pace car policies and procedures only to take it away for a week - and then bring it back the following week. Perhaps we should wait to do the Nordschleife once we know that everyone has the pace car thing down pat and we know taking it away for a week won't cause anyone to forget anything? Just a thought.

cmbeal317

Also in regards to penalties which if I remember correctly a few of us had talked about. I would like to know if everyone would be interested in turning penalties off when we're running the pace car, that way the lapped cars don't ghost, and you have to take extra caution overtaking, as you can't got through them since they're not ghosted.

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I'm in favor of turning off penalties, but I know others aren't. Either way is fine, but I think turning penalties off is the more in line with what we are trying to do here, which is to try to make things as realistic as possible. The only problem with turning penalties off is the lack of shortcut penalties. Perhaps we could have "accountability partners" so to speak. After the race, every driver is responsible for spot checking the replay of one other driver to check for repeated shortcut violations. This would probably take only about 5-10 minutes and would prevent any one person from having to check everyone else's laps. I think this might be a good solution to keeping things realistic while also keeping everyone honest about not taking shortcuts.

cmbeal317

If we move to running multiple classes at the conclusion of the Lotus challenge, then I would be highly supportive of removing penalties.

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I'd like to know how everyone else feels, but I've kind of had a change of heart about running two classes on the same track. I don't think it would work well with the pace car and in my opinion and the pace car idea is a much better idea. Therefore, I think we should just toss the multi-class idea and focus on the pace car.

cmbeal317

As for the prize structure, I think we'll go with what had been discussed earlier after one of our races. With a 4 or 5 week period of races with each car or cars, then I think we'll go with this format for winners of the previous season.

1 Car:
1st - picks car
2nd - track
3rd - track
4th - track
5th - track
6th - track(if we go with five week seasons)

2 Cars:
1st - car
2nd - car
3rd - track
4th - track
5th - track
6th - track
7th - track(if we go with five week seasons)

Now to prevent any issues with someone intentionally picking a track that would be problematic for the car(s), the prize selection will start with tracks in order of overall place, then once all the tracks we're decided the car(s) would be selected with the tracks in mind. I would then take the responsibility of shuffling the tracks into the order of how we would race them.

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I like the idea of 4 or 5 week seasons. Just keep it simple and have one season for every month of the year. We could even do what we do in S.N.A.I.L. and drop the lowest finish of everyone that competed every week of that month. Sort of like a participation incentive. 👍

zer05ive

reserved

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you are, but only a little

kcheeb

you are, but only a little

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Who me?? Nah!!

zer05ive

Yeah, I agree there's really no way to run the Nordschleife with heavy damage and expect there to be any sort of close racing. Personally, I would prefer just changing it to the GP/D or GP/F versions so that there we're not going back and forth on the damage settings.

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Yeah, the GP courses would be a better choice. I understand the desire to run the ring, but the GP courses would result in better racing, IMO.

zer05ive

I'm in favor of turning off penalties, but I know others aren't. Either way is fine, but I think turning penalties off is the more in line with what we are trying to do here, which is to try to make things as realistic as possible. The only problem with turning penalties off is the lack of shortcut penalties. Perhaps we could have an "accountability partners" so to speak. After the race, every driver is responsible for spot checking the replay of one other driver to check for repeated shortcut violations. This probably take about 5-10 minutes and would prevent any one person from having to check everyone's laps. I think this might be a good solution to keeping things realistic while also keeping everyone honest about not taking shortcuts.

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I'm usually for running with penalties off, especially if we agree to police each other and it's not up to one person to watch for infractions.

zer05ive

I'd like to know how everyone else feels, but I've kind of had a change of heart about running two classes on the same track. I don't think it would work well with the pace car and in my opinion and the pace car idea is a much better idea. Therefore, I think we should just toss the multi-class idea and focus on the pace car.

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I'm still for two classes. I think it would work with the safety car, especially if we have an easily understandable procedure. I want to do two class racing so badly.

zer05ive

I like the idea of 4 or 5 week seasons. Just keep it simple and have one season for every month of the year. We could even do what we do in S.N.A.I.L. and drop the lowest finish of everyone that competed every week of that month. Sort of like a participation incentive. 👍

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👍 A month seems like a good length to have fun with a car and not get tired of it.

i think if we want to add nurburg... add it when we know we won't have people running into the walls, when we are comfortable with running with full damage, and still .. the track I feel is just too big to have practical pace car rules.

I also get the feeling that people here dont cut the corners for shortcuts... but that policing idea works for me, some person assigns everyone .... a person to watch? then send a report? sound like a great way to keep it clean and fair.

as far as two classes.... if you run two classes.. wont everyone just pick the fastest car?, and with a full room, that would be max 8 drivers per class, who chooses who drives what? and what about the finishing timer, so both classes run the full race. I assume you'll have vastly different cars, different PP and HP, making it like a tru rolex type enduro, with passing rules, pitting rules, AND restart rules per class? OR is it s PP standard of two cars with different names... but are basically the same car?

if ya run two class i imagined a race with two diffeent classes raceing their individual races at the same time on the same track. the lower class wouldn't be able to keep up with the top.... i feel you would need more than just 16 competitors. 16 is barely a full go-kart field let alone a full-on unduro field that has 30 -40. if you open it up to multiple classes.. then open it up, just set a PP.. and let anyone "run what they brung" ( keeping it untuned would keep cars similar). personally i enjoy same car rules, with the current online layout. good size field, very lifelike as most series with such a small field only alllow one car ( SCCA spec miata actully had 88 entries two weeks ago at "lyme rock"... that was a bit much)

I'd like to change colors. Black car blue wheels. Thanks

I'm a big ALMS fan, so I think the multi class racing sounds awesome! 1 GT, 1 LMP class (not necessarily in LMP cars, though that might be fun). The faster class having to take care to pass cleanly. The slower class having to watch their mirrors to avoid an incident like the Ferrari-Toyota at Le Mans.

To keep it simple, you could limit it to a single car in each class and no tuning. Maybe branching out to a small list of homologated cars in future seasons.

spooble

I'm a big ALMS fan, so I think the multi class racing sounds awesome! 1 GT, 1 LMP class (not necessarily in LMP cars, though that might be fun). The faster class having to take care to pass cleanly. The slower class having to watch their mirrors to avoid an incident like the Ferrari-Toyota at Le Mans.

To keep it simple, you could limit it to a single car in each class and no tuning. Maybe branching out to a small list of homologated cars in future seasons.

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that was a nasty wreck, with multi cars, I just wander if a field of 16 would be enough to hold two races in one.

spdrcr70x

that was a nasty wreck, with multi cars, I just wander if a field of 16 would be enough to hold two races in one.

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It should be....I believe that the Super GT racing series use both the GT500 and GT300 cars on the tracks at the same time

I have pretty good schedule for Saturday so count me in for the race at mogeti

Where can I find the Lotus Elise 111R Race Modified?

I'd like to join

dgaf95integra

Where can I find the Lotus Elise 111R Race Modified?

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Buy the normal Elise 111R from the Lotus dealer in the NCD and race-mod it under the GT Auto thing

dgaf95integra

Where can I find the Lotus Elise 111R Race Modified?

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Buy the Lotus Elise 111 from the New Car Dealership, go into the Garage and choose Race Modify.

Then break it in 👍

cmbeal will be along shortly to get you all signed up

EDIT: everyone, stop it, stop it, stop it. ninja'd beyond belief

dgaf95integra

Where can I find the Lotus Elise 111R Race Modified?

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It's in the new car dealership. Once you buy it go and get it race modified. Race modification is the same place you get oil changes. Last tab. Dont do anything else to the car except buy racing hard and medium tires. Break it in and your ready to go.

kcheeb

EDIT: everyone, stop it, stop it, stop it. ninja'd beyond belief

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It's the time difference between provinces

What times are you getting at motegi?

tezgm99

It's the time difference between provinces

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But I should have more coffee in me than you!

K thanks kc also what's the best track to break the car in I keep having to go back and start the race again

kcheeb

But I should have more coffee in me than you!

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This is true......I'll go get another cup to even it out a bit then