- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
F.I.T.T. Rally and Street Tuner Challenge by MCH
- Thread starter Motor City Hami
- 362 comments
- 33,865 views
- 1,847
- London
- Ziz528
Thanks Cy, appreciate both sets of feedback, and totally agree with what you say. 
I just didn't have time to correct the issues. 
I just didn't have time to correct the issues.
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
Well, that's me done. The Escort came through strong for me, 2 tenths slower that the fastest time I'd set with it. The Focus let me down though, felt like a right mess to drive, a clear 10th and a bit slower than the fastest I've driven it 
I make that 1-1, Ripper, *fist bump*
{Cy}
PS - I'll go get my Focus picture posted now 👍
I make that 1-1, Ripper, *fist bump*
{Cy}
PS - I'll go get my Focus picture posted now 👍
- 1,847
- London
- Ziz528
Well, that's me done. The Escort came through strong for me, 2 tenths slower that the fastest time I'd set with it. The Focus let me down though, felt like a right mess to drive, a clear 10th and a bit slower than the fastest I've driven it
I make that 1-1, Ripper, *fist bump*
And that's referring to my performance, not yours.
I expected both cars to be much slower than your lap times suggest.
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
And that's referring to my performance, not yours.
Told you you'd be alright 👍 Wish I coulda picked up the pace a little with the Focus. Funny how you can walk away from a car, feeling good, to give it a go a while later and think why the 🤬 won't it go round :censored:ing corners..!?!?!
I notice that never happens in reverse. How I'd love to jump in a car and find it suddenly drives brilliantly..!!
Hami, here's my street car picture. It's attached to the build that is linked elsewhere here. Bit of a rush job, but hey...
{Cy}
- 1,494
- Portland / Or /
- Barefoot_Driver
CyKosis1973
I feel your pain. It happens to me both ways, unfortunately. My mood has too much sway over my performance. It is nice to get into a car I couldn't harmonize with a few weeks or months ago and find that I now understand how to make the car behave. That's what I love most about these Shootouts. I learn so much.
There's knowing, and then there's understanding.
Edit: one more car to test and then drivers choice for the street cars. I'll have to finish it tomorrow, sorry. I have an 8 hour graveyard shift tonight.
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- 5,814
- Hillsboro Oregon
- XDesperado67
- XDesperado67
Just noticed under the testing portion of the OP that grip reduction is to be set to low...wonder how much if any that's affecting the handling of my cars for testers as I tuned with grip reduction set to real...
- 3,131
- IL, USA
- DigitalBaka
- DigitalBaka587
A quick start to my timing sheet, comments to follow...
Settings: 10 Laps, DS3, ABS1, MT
Rally Tunes
DigitalBaka: 2'02.681
MotorCityHami: 2'02.867
XDesperado67: 2'02.933
trackripper123: 2.03.526
CyKosis1973: 2'04.107
jtqmopar: 2'05.365
Newdriver2: 2'20.675
krenkme: 2'21.589
Rally Driver's Choice
MotorCityHami - Fast and easy, given more laps can probably go under 2'00
CyKosis1973 - User friendly, just get in and go
DigitalBaka - Obviously it fits me pretty well
Rally Commentary
MotorCityHami: Hami seems to have found the feel I was looking for in mine. Slides just enough through the corners. It doesn't leave you fighting for more turn in nor does it send the arse end flying out in front. It will keep the momentum up and come back into line easily. And the brake balance is, I would say, darn near if not perfect. They neither throw the rear nor make the front unresponsive. Very well done!
XDesperado67: Super quick up the hill/mountain/90 degree vertical incline. I was pushing 90MPH easily making it the fastest in that section. It does like to slide though and I found it tough to reel in when it started to go the wrong way, particularly when braking.
trackripper123: The car slows very quick on that downhill hairpin in the second sector. I found I had to push up my braking point there because I was slowing too fast. Unfortunately it just didn't feel like the front end had the agility it needed.
CyKosis1973: I had no difficulty driving this at all. Intuitive and responds well to input. Good speed up the hill as well. I lower speeds though it felt like it was having a hard time finding traction to pull on exit. Felt like it keep sliding in places where I expected it to catch and go.
jtqmopar: My most noted observation here was that the car likes to wag its tail for no apparent reason in places I didn't expect it to do so. It isn't terrible and I didn't feel it upset my driving much but it seems to take it's time coming back into shape.
Newdriver2: It just won't stay straight! Had to be extra careful with the throttle and gears so I wouldn't spin it (which is quite cool to watch in the replay but not so good for lap times). Problem is then the front doesn't turn when you need it to unless you give it the gas and get it to rotate that way, possibly spinning it anyway. I haven't looked at the numbers in the tune (and I honestly wouldn't know what I'm looking at anyway) but it seems like tweaking the transmission might work well to improve everything. I found on a couple laps I actually got it to bounce on the limiter in top gear. Spreading out the gears would give you room there and also (maybe) help to quiet down the rear end some when on the throttle.
krenkme: I really think krenky is out to kill me. First it was the Butter Knife at Laguna Seca, the a billion HP 300C, a rocket powered Viper on S3s and now this! 
You may want to check the rear tires on it. I think they are mounted sideways! As the French jokes usually go, once it's gone it just gives up. 
I found myself riding the walls home in a few places when I totally mucked it up. If you are very precise with the throttle you can do some pretty cool things around a few of the corners but I'm just not that good.
DigitalBaka: I feel a bit bad having my own tune at the top of my leaderboard for testing. I think by now though folks know I'm honest about it and this is still about 1.5 seconds slower than my fastest, which is somewhat irritating. I do wish the low speed corners didn't suck as much as they do. That tight downhill hairpin gives me such a headache! It feels somewhat inconsistent there, though not better or worse than most others. It's probably my driving. I'd like to give it more agility in the front without making it too active that it starts swimming all over the track.
Street Tunes
XDesperado67: 1'13.981
DigitalBaka: 1'14.696
krenkme: 1'15.417
MotorCityHami:
trackripper123:
CyKosis1973:
jtqmopar:
Newdriver2:
Street Commentary
XDesperado67: Even faster than it feels! Great through the first sector, never really feels like it is going to go off if you get on a bit too early. Lots and lots of grip, until the big ol' right-hander comes along. I found myself sliding while on the brakes coming in, maybe a balance thing? Also, I've never seen a car bounce at the end of the jump...until now.
DigitalBaka: This car is much more consistent for me than the rally version. Ran just a hundredth off my best this time. In contrast to XD's Mitsu, you can't get on too early or you will run wide. Still pulls through corners nicely when driven aggressively to take advantage of the 4WD but just lacks a little punch.
krenkme: Much easier to drive than the rally version! My biggest problem with this one was getting the power down in the second gear corners and the big bend. With a good touch it is definitely possible to get around at a good clip but I feel like I was being too careful in comparison and probably lost some time.
Settings: 10 Laps, DS3, ABS1, MT
Rally Tunes
DigitalBaka: 2'02.681
MotorCityHami: 2'02.867
XDesperado67: 2'02.933
trackripper123: 2.03.526
CyKosis1973: 2'04.107
jtqmopar: 2'05.365
Newdriver2: 2'20.675
krenkme: 2'21.589
Rally Driver's Choice
MotorCityHami - Fast and easy, given more laps can probably go under 2'00
CyKosis1973 - User friendly, just get in and go
DigitalBaka - Obviously it fits me pretty well
Rally Commentary
MotorCityHami: Hami seems to have found the feel I was looking for in mine. Slides just enough through the corners. It doesn't leave you fighting for more turn in nor does it send the arse end flying out in front. It will keep the momentum up and come back into line easily. And the brake balance is, I would say, darn near if not perfect. They neither throw the rear nor make the front unresponsive. Very well done!
XDesperado67: Super quick up the hill/mountain/90 degree vertical incline.
I was pushing 90MPH easily making it the fastest in that section. It does like to slide though and I found it tough to reel in when it started to go the wrong way, particularly when braking.trackripper123: The car slows very quick on that downhill hairpin in the second sector. I found I had to push up my braking point there because I was slowing too fast. Unfortunately it just didn't feel like the front end had the agility it needed.
CyKosis1973: I had no difficulty driving this at all. Intuitive and responds well to input. Good speed up the hill as well. I lower speeds though it felt like it was having a hard time finding traction to pull on exit. Felt like it keep sliding in places where I expected it to catch and go.
jtqmopar: My most noted observation here was that the car likes to wag its tail for no apparent reason in places I didn't expect it to do so. It isn't terrible and I didn't feel it upset my driving much but it seems to take it's time coming back into shape.
Newdriver2: It just won't stay straight! Had to be extra careful with the throttle and gears so I wouldn't spin it (which is quite cool to watch in the replay but not so good for lap times
). Problem is then the front doesn't turn when you need it to unless you give it the gas and get it to rotate that way, possibly spinning it anyway. I haven't looked at the numbers in the tune (and I honestly wouldn't know what I'm looking at anyway) but it seems like tweaking the transmission might work well to improve everything. I found on a couple laps I actually got it to bounce on the limiter in top gear. Spreading out the gears would give you room there and also (maybe) help to quiet down the rear end some when on the throttle.krenkme: I really think krenky is out to kill me.
First it was the Butter Knife at Laguna Seca, the a billion HP 300C, a rocket powered Viper on S3s and now this! You may want to check the rear tires on it. I think they are mounted sideways! As the French jokes usually go, once it's gone it just gives up. I found myself riding the walls home in a few places when I totally mucked it up. If you are very precise with the throttle you can do some pretty cool things around a few of the corners but I'm just not that good.DigitalBaka: I feel a bit bad having my own tune at the top of my leaderboard for testing. I think by now though folks know I'm honest about it and this is still about 1.5 seconds slower than my fastest, which is somewhat irritating.
I do wish the low speed corners didn't suck as much as they do. That tight downhill hairpin gives me such a headache! It feels somewhat inconsistent there, though not better or worse than most others. It's probably my driving. I'd like to give it more agility in the front without making it too active that it starts swimming all over the track.Street Tunes
XDesperado67: 1'13.981
DigitalBaka: 1'14.696
krenkme: 1'15.417
MotorCityHami:
trackripper123:
CyKosis1973:
jtqmopar:
Newdriver2:
Street Commentary
XDesperado67: Even faster than it feels! Great through the first sector, never really feels like it is going to go off if you get on a bit too early. Lots and lots of grip, until the big ol' right-hander comes along. I found myself sliding while on the brakes coming in, maybe a balance thing? Also, I've never seen a car bounce at the end of the jump...until now.
DigitalBaka: This car is much more consistent for me than the rally version. Ran just a hundredth off my best this time. In contrast to XD's Mitsu, you can't get on too early or you will run wide. Still pulls through corners nicely when driven aggressively to take advantage of the 4WD but just lacks a little punch.
krenkme: Much easier to drive than the rally version!
My biggest problem with this one was getting the power down in the second gear corners and the big bend. With a good touch it is definitely possible to get around at a good clip but I feel like I was being too careful in comparison and probably lost some time.
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- 1,847
- London
- Ziz528
XDesperado67Just noticed under the testing portion of the OP that grip reduction is to be set to low...wonder how much if any that's affecting the handling of my cars for testers as I tuned with grip reduction set to real...
Huh what?
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
The only time I get the reverse, is going back to a car with some fresh knowledge. Being able to fix something that wasn't working, is a joy...
Just noticed under the testing portion of the OP that grip reduction is to be set to low...wonder how much if any that's affecting the handling of my cars for testers as I tuned with grip reduction set to real...
Yeah, I knew that, but I still tested online with grip reduction set to real. It's noticeable with my Focus, not so much with the Escort. But then I was afforded the luxury of being able to grant a bit more bias to the rear drive in the Escort. Online, with real grip reduction, set it to 45/55 and it'll drive pretty much the same as it does offline, with low grip reduction and the bias set to 40/60 👍
{Cy}
- 682
- Gent , Belgium
- Terror_Dog
totally off-topic i know , but for the love of god man ....
shouldn't you be working atm
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
- 4,079
- Brooklyn, Wi
- krenkme
DigitalBakaA quick start to my timing sheet, comments to follow...
Newdriver2: 2'20.675
krenkme: 2'21.589
ND and krenky, I'm a bit embarrassed with my times in your machines. Out of the 10 you guys are basically on 1-2 green laps. I will try to find time to run your cars again if just for posterity.
No need on my part. I know the car is not very good, and we need you alive
- 1,096
- Egypt
- GTP_NEWDRIVER2
- OTS_NEWDRIVER2
Me too i know also that the car very agressive and very fishy car so iam fine later i will work more in Ralley to see how it will work spicial the oldest model as Clueless Tunner more to come .....
Thank you DB 👍
Sam
Thank you DB 👍
Sam
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
Reminder: Photo's due tonight. If you haven't sent me your car photos yet, they are due at the end of the day, whatever time the end of the day comes where you live on the planet.
Also, If you have finished testing you can either post your driver's choice in your test post or send it in PM to me.
Thanks. Carry on.
Also, If you have finished testing you can either post your driver's choice in your test post or send it in PM to me.
Thanks. Carry on.
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
A couple of videos for your titillation. If I get the time, I'll take some more of your cars out and try to capture some hot laps. Neither of these two videos are my official submitted times, as I re-ran DigiB's and failed to make the grade with my own car during my 5 hot lap allocation, but they are both the cleanest, fastest laps I made in either cars.
You can see how advantageous the bump in turn 11 is, notice how quickly I'm back on the gas, screaming ****yeah at the TV..!!
Please excuse the fact my Escort sounds like a washing machine..!! This lap could certianly have been cleaner, but hey, I'm no alien
{Cy}
You can see how advantageous the bump in turn 11 is, notice how quickly I'm back on the gas, screaming ****yeah at the TV..!!
Please excuse the fact my Escort sounds like a washing machine..!! This lap could certianly have been cleaner, but hey, I'm no alien
{Cy}
- 2,012
- Cranbrook, BC
- tezgm99
Fantastic to see the rally cars getting some love at last! 👍
I've been trying to figure out a way to do a time-trial challenge sort of thing and stumbled upon this thread when looking for setups so the cars are (with any luck) evenly matched up during testing
Edit: my idea involved a TT for each 'era' of rally car. Having trouble finding tarmac setups (sports tyres) for 70's/80's ones since I figure dirt or snow would skew the times against the RWD guys :/
I've been trying to figure out a way to do a time-trial challenge sort of thing and stumbled upon this thread when looking for setups so the cars are (with any luck) evenly matched up during testing
Edit: my idea involved a TT for each 'era' of rally car. Having trouble finding tarmac setups (sports tyres) for 70's/80's ones since I figure dirt or snow would skew the times against the RWD guys :/
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- 5,814
- Hillsboro Oregon
- XDesperado67
- XDesperado67
@Motor City Hamilton can you please just use the photos from my tunes. Won't be able to get on and do any other photos today.
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
My Drivers Choices have been made, go collect your medals, Gentlemen.
I broke into the 1:15s in Krenkme's 5 Turbo, quality is a little poor, sorry...
{Cy}
I broke into the 1:15s in Krenkme's 5 Turbo, quality is a little poor, sorry...
{Cy}
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
This has been a really fun one for me. Feel free to take these tunes for a test drive.
@Motor City Hamilton can you please just use the photos from my tunes. Won't be able to get on and do any other photos today.
Check. Got it.
I am loving this new points system. Tomorrow I will get it posted on Google docs and start making live updates. Everytime someone posts new lap times and new driver's choice awards, the top three change position. There are five of us with 198-199 points right now and the order keeps changing with almost every tester. Love it.
- 4,079
- Brooklyn, Wi
- krenkme
Nice run 👍
(if/when I post my tune at Clueless I will be using this... if that's alright? )Who would have thought that the slowest car would get a silver
thanks for that
- 3,131
- IL, USA
- DigitalBaka
- DigitalBaka587
Added some commentary to my rally results. I will be running mine and then starting the street tunes later tonight.
Any thank you, Cy, for the awesome time and the gold medal for the rally tune. Never been that high on a time sheet before in any of these shootouts.
Any thank you, Cy, for the awesome time and the gold medal for the rally tune.
Never been that high on a time sheet before in any of these shootouts.
- 1,096
- Egypt
- GTP_NEWDRIVER2
- OTS_NEWDRIVER2
Ron said :
NewDriver2: 2:16.324
Very difficult to control compared to some of the other entries. Most of my laps were red. The back end isn't as active as the Maxi 5 but it's a close second. Sporting around is fun and easy but hot lapping is suicidal.
NewDeiver2: 1:14.603
It took me several laps just to understand how to tame the rotation. Once I did it took me several more to fine tune my inputs so that the car could be pushed to its limit. Then I realized that the car did much better if I slowed down and kept the car restrained. The car is scary fast and always on the verge of chaos.
Thank you Ron 👍 both time is better than my time and iam happy with this point . And good that you didn't kill your self in the street version i now its scary fast as its old model 👍
Next shootout i will come out with car more better
Congrats for Krenkme 👍 this is what they call it Clueless garage old tune machine .
Also congrats for all the tuner in this shootout to give for us this good tunes and make this shootout looks good 👍
NewDriver2: 2:16.324
Very difficult to control compared to some of the other entries. Most of my laps were red. The back end isn't as active as the Maxi 5 but it's a close second. Sporting around is fun and easy but hot lapping is suicidal.
NewDeiver2: 1:14.603
It took me several laps just to understand how to tame the rotation. Once I did it took me several more to fine tune my inputs so that the car could be pushed to its limit. Then I realized that the car did much better if I slowed down and kept the car restrained. The car is scary fast and always on the verge of chaos.
Thank you Ron 👍 both time is better than my time and iam happy with this point . And good that you didn't kill your self in the street version i now its scary fast as its old model 👍
Next shootout i will come out with car more better
Congrats for Krenkme 👍 this is what they call it Clueless garage old tune machine .
Also congrats for all the tuner in this shootout to give for us this good tunes and make this shootout looks good 👍
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
Which car has a worse sounding exhaust note?
Ford Escort Rally Car ’98 or the Subaru Impreza Rally Car '01
Turning down the volume now...
Ford Escort Rally Car ’98 or the Subaru Impreza Rally Car '01
Turning down the volume now...
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
Nice run 👍
Who would have thought that the slowest car would get a silver
You can see how much I was enjoying the car, you deserved the silver. You're more than welcome to use the vid, although I may re-do it, as there's a fair bit of glare. For the first two, I adjusted the light balance, however when the camera goes into powersave mode, it defaults any changes you've made. I was already uploading to YouTube before I realised
Added some commentary to my rally results. I will be running mine and then starting the street tunes later tonight.
Any thank you, Cy, for the awesome time and the gold medal for the rally tune.
Thanks for the awesome drive 👍 Yours is top out of 4 or 5 cars that have a genuine chance of hitting the 2 min barrier.
Also, thanks for running my Escort. I've found that there are varying levels of grip around the track, if you stray too far from them, particularly under braking, then the car would seem to forget all about turning
There were a few cars like that, fewer cars were able to dig themselves out of it (yours, xDee's and Hami's).I vote for the Escort, even on bumper cam, it still sounds like a washing machine..!!
{Cy}
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
Test Drives by Motor City Hamilton
DS3, manual, ABS1, all other aids off
Rally Cars
Since we don’t drive rally cars very often, I decided to over test drive. I spent two or three laps with each car just studying their personality. Then I set out for ten hot laps, the best that I can do. For this shootout, I spent more time tuning my rally car than I have ever spent on any one tune. I drove 469 miles on Eiger Nordwand G Trail Reverse with my Subaru entry and another 200+ miles testing a few other cars. I have really gotten to know this track, so I can easily hit the trail full on and get the most out of the ten laps.
DigitalBaka - Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR Rally Car (ST205) ’95 – fast lap 2:00.867
This car is a monster up the hill! It just muscles on up, better than any rally car I have driven so far. I consistently hit 87 mph at the top of the hill. I did notice the use of only five gears with six available. I don’t know if this could have helped top speed at all, but it might have been beneficial in one other area? At the top of the hill, the 2nd to 3rd gear shift wasn’t smooth. In all other areas of the track it is easy to keep up the momentum. In turn four at the top of the hill it is very difficult to do. I think a better exchange between 2nd and 3rd might be the difference to get this car closer to the two minute mark. This tune has great turn-in and mid-corner. It also has the ability to break loose on exit which was often helpful, matched with the 4wd capabilities and it was loads of fun. From a handling perspective, I did want a little more grip in higher speed corners like 12, 9, 5 and in the bowl between 4 and 3. This car will slide a mile sideways in these corners if you don’t plan ahead. Tuning is all about tradeoffs and I bet if you found more high speed corner grip, it would kill the awesomeness of the corner entry and mid-corner abilities. I really like this tune. All ten hot laps were under 2:02. Good work.
Trackripper123 - Ford Escort Rally Car ’98 – 2:00.908
From lap one I loved this car. I mean I really loved this car. It does exactly what you ask it to do. Again, I don’t look at tune settings until after I drive the cars. All of the suspension and brake settings actually look pretty basic – what I would expect to see on any tarmac street tune. But one look at the LSD settings and I could tell there was some careful time spent getting these exact. It makes sense why I would like this car so much, as everyone on GT Planet knows, I believe the LSD to be the “super” tune settings. It sure looks to have worked on this tune. I have only one complaint to report, transmission. I was able to hit 86 mph at the top of the hill and 3rd through 5th gear flow together very nicely. I wanted a bit more from 2nd gear. It doesn’t rip off the corner saying GOOOOOOOOO. It kind of limps out of the corner saying Gggg… umm… ggggooooo. My hypothesis is that choosing to make a six speed into a five speed wasn’t the ultimate choice. The uphill section of this track is so difficult that all six gears may be needed. Like I said, 3rd, 4th and 5th worked on this gearbox, but I think 2nd suffered, having to carry a little too much of the load. This is a very nice tune.
Motor City Hami - Subaru Impreza WRC 2008 - 201.009
My car is a pig going up the hill so if you are going to be fast in it you need to push it for all it is worth through the corners. I love everything about the handling of my tune. I just don’t like the power on the hill. All ten of my laps were 2:01s. Take special note of laps 6, 7 and 8. I checked it three times and I actually did finish exactly on top of the ghost on laps 7 and 8.
Lap 1 - 2:01.502
Lap 2 - 2:01.568
Lap 3 - 2:01.187
Lap 4 - 2:01.697
Lap 5 - 2:01.377
Lap 6 - 2:01.169
Lap 7 - 2:01.166
Lap 8 - 2:01.166
Lap 9 - 2:01.009
Lap 10 - 2:01.236
XDesperado67 - Mitsubishi CZ-3 Tarmac Rally Car – 201.714
I spent a lot of time tuning this car myself, but it became my #2. I thought that this would be the car to beat because of the lighter weight and how PDs programming tends to give PP advantages to cars in this weight range. This car is awesome accelerating up the hill. The gearbox matches the track very well. The car jumps off the corner and seems to be able to accelerate anywhere. X seems to have run into similar issues that I was having with the car. It doesn’t have near the side bite as the Escorts entered by Trackripper and CyKosis. There is a very thin razor’s edge between perfect corner entry speed and slidy, slidy sideways. The best example is the speed in turn 5 up the hill. All of the other fast cars so far have been able to hold 70 mph plus in turn five. The most I achieved in the CZ-3 was 67 and most of the time I was below 65. It was able to recover and climb that last bit of hill to 87 mph, but that one corner, holding 70, could have put this car into the 2:00 world. Nice tune and a fun ride if you are really precise.
CyKosis1973 - Ford Escort Rally Car ’98 – fast lap 2:01.853
This is a nicely balanced tune and a really fun ride. I didn’t feel like I was fighting the car. It worked with me to chase down that lap time. The car is great at side-to-side transitions as evidenced by the speed I could carry through the turn two switch back. I was able to run a lot of laps under 2:02.5 and that is the sign of a good tune. Only one handling issue that didn’t match my driving style – I want a bit more turn in, but I don’t think that cost me much time. I was able to adjust, make a slower entry then push for the speed from mid corner off. I do think that choosing to make the transmission a 5 speed rather than a 6 speed held this tune back on the uphill section. There is zero room for error on turn nine at the bottom of the hill. Then when you reach turn five, if you bog the car at all, it cost precious speed. After I finish the other cars I want to come back to this tune, make it a six speed and see if I can get it to run a 2:00.9. Overall a nice tune and a very competitive rally car. Nice work.
JTQmopar - Subaru Impreza Rally Car '01 – fast lap 2:04.721
Not a bad tune, but something was holding this car back. I don’t look at the tunes before I do the test drives. I don’t want to know anything about the tune before I drive it so that I can just enjoy the ride, then think about what made that tune great or short of excellence. I liked turn-in, mid-corner and the gearbox, but corner exit was really bugging me. I could not keep this car straight on exit. Once I noticed the tendency I adjusted my driving, keeping the wheels straight after apex and counter steering like crazy to finish off each corner. When I looked at the tune, everything looked good except for one setting; torque split at 25/75. Chasing that hunch, I changed the torque split (just for feedback) to 50/50 and hit the track again. I only did one fairly clean lap and ran 2:00.559, the fastest I have gone in a Rally car yet. I think this tune, with 50/50 torque split has the potential to cross the two minute barrier. That one setting neutered the 4wd abilities of the car and may have cost you the podium.
Now, for the last two rally cars. First, I owe an apology to Newdriver and Krenkme. I should have done more testing with these older rally cars. One Clueless bonus point isn’t nearly enough for these rear wheel drive monsters. It was a good idea in the points system to encourage use of older cars, but I missed the mark on truly making them competitive. Thank you for giving them a shot. For my next competition I will make a harder run at the Clueless bonus point cars.
NEWDRIVER2 - Nissan 240RS Rally Car ’85 – 2:15.309
This rally car is from the days when rally car drivers were men. Not like today when the likes of Tanner Foust shows up with a stylist, a PR agent and a model on his arm. The rally drivers from this era were stupid crazy, drank heavy beer and ate steak for breakfast. You have done a very nice job at taming this car to make it controllable. It was a fun drive.
Krenkme - Renault 5 Maxi Turbo Rally Car ’85 – 2:15.875
I love the style of this car. Like I mentioned before, there is something about this era of rally cars that is cool. Krenkme, mission accomplished. You set out to ruin the confidence of even the best test driver. Running through my head while testing your car, “I know that I am a better driver than this… I should be able to drive anything, right… what the…” Since I had already driven your car the other night out of curiosity and I had peeked at the tune, I knew the ride height was an issue. I tried the tactic of a chicken – only cross the center of the road if you want to make people laugh at a bad joke. It was a lot like running a rain line on tarmac in real life. You must be careful to cross over the slippery spots and never in the corner. If you want to improve this tune, I would recommend raising the ride height and lowering the LSD across the board. I may play more with this tune once the competition is over. Thanks for entering such a wild car. Someone had to do it.
Driver’s Choice
Gold - Trackripper123 - Ford Escort Rally Car ’98 for it’s handling.
Silver – DigitalBaka - Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR Rally Car (ST205) ’95 for topping the leader board with a fast, fast ride.
Bronze - CyKosis1973 - Ford Escort Rally Car ’98 for that perfect, lane changing balance.
Honorable mention – my own Subaru Impreza WRC 2008 – If I am honest, I love the handling of my tune best, but it just doesn’t stack up on powering up the hill.
DS3, manual, ABS1, all other aids off
Rally Cars
Since we don’t drive rally cars very often, I decided to over test drive. I spent two or three laps with each car just studying their personality. Then I set out for ten hot laps, the best that I can do. For this shootout, I spent more time tuning my rally car than I have ever spent on any one tune. I drove 469 miles on Eiger Nordwand G Trail Reverse with my Subaru entry and another 200+ miles testing a few other cars. I have really gotten to know this track, so I can easily hit the trail full on and get the most out of the ten laps.
DigitalBaka - Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR Rally Car (ST205) ’95 – fast lap 2:00.867
This car is a monster up the hill! It just muscles on up, better than any rally car I have driven so far. I consistently hit 87 mph at the top of the hill. I did notice the use of only five gears with six available. I don’t know if this could have helped top speed at all, but it might have been beneficial in one other area? At the top of the hill, the 2nd to 3rd gear shift wasn’t smooth. In all other areas of the track it is easy to keep up the momentum. In turn four at the top of the hill it is very difficult to do. I think a better exchange between 2nd and 3rd might be the difference to get this car closer to the two minute mark. This tune has great turn-in and mid-corner. It also has the ability to break loose on exit which was often helpful, matched with the 4wd capabilities and it was loads of fun. From a handling perspective, I did want a little more grip in higher speed corners like 12, 9, 5 and in the bowl between 4 and 3. This car will slide a mile sideways in these corners if you don’t plan ahead. Tuning is all about tradeoffs and I bet if you found more high speed corner grip, it would kill the awesomeness of the corner entry and mid-corner abilities. I really like this tune. All ten hot laps were under 2:02. Good work.
Trackripper123 - Ford Escort Rally Car ’98 – 2:00.908
From lap one I loved this car. I mean I really loved this car. It does exactly what you ask it to do. Again, I don’t look at tune settings until after I drive the cars. All of the suspension and brake settings actually look pretty basic – what I would expect to see on any tarmac street tune. But one look at the LSD settings and I could tell there was some careful time spent getting these exact. It makes sense why I would like this car so much, as everyone on GT Planet knows, I believe the LSD to be the “super” tune settings. It sure looks to have worked on this tune. I have only one complaint to report, transmission. I was able to hit 86 mph at the top of the hill and 3rd through 5th gear flow together very nicely. I wanted a bit more from 2nd gear. It doesn’t rip off the corner saying GOOOOOOOOO. It kind of limps out of the corner saying Gggg… umm… ggggooooo. My hypothesis is that choosing to make a six speed into a five speed wasn’t the ultimate choice. The uphill section of this track is so difficult that all six gears may be needed. Like I said, 3rd, 4th and 5th worked on this gearbox, but I think 2nd suffered, having to carry a little too much of the load. This is a very nice tune.
Motor City Hami - Subaru Impreza WRC 2008 - 201.009
My car is a pig going up the hill so if you are going to be fast in it you need to push it for all it is worth through the corners. I love everything about the handling of my tune. I just don’t like the power on the hill. All ten of my laps were 2:01s. Take special note of laps 6, 7 and 8. I checked it three times and I actually did finish exactly on top of the ghost on laps 7 and 8.
Lap 1 - 2:01.502
Lap 2 - 2:01.568
Lap 3 - 2:01.187
Lap 4 - 2:01.697
Lap 5 - 2:01.377
Lap 6 - 2:01.169
Lap 7 - 2:01.166
Lap 8 - 2:01.166
Lap 9 - 2:01.009
Lap 10 - 2:01.236
XDesperado67 - Mitsubishi CZ-3 Tarmac Rally Car – 201.714
I spent a lot of time tuning this car myself, but it became my #2. I thought that this would be the car to beat because of the lighter weight and how PDs programming tends to give PP advantages to cars in this weight range. This car is awesome accelerating up the hill. The gearbox matches the track very well. The car jumps off the corner and seems to be able to accelerate anywhere. X seems to have run into similar issues that I was having with the car. It doesn’t have near the side bite as the Escorts entered by Trackripper and CyKosis. There is a very thin razor’s edge between perfect corner entry speed and slidy, slidy sideways. The best example is the speed in turn 5 up the hill. All of the other fast cars so far have been able to hold 70 mph plus in turn five. The most I achieved in the CZ-3 was 67 and most of the time I was below 65. It was able to recover and climb that last bit of hill to 87 mph, but that one corner, holding 70, could have put this car into the 2:00 world. Nice tune and a fun ride if you are really precise.
CyKosis1973 - Ford Escort Rally Car ’98 – fast lap 2:01.853
This is a nicely balanced tune and a really fun ride. I didn’t feel like I was fighting the car. It worked with me to chase down that lap time. The car is great at side-to-side transitions as evidenced by the speed I could carry through the turn two switch back. I was able to run a lot of laps under 2:02.5 and that is the sign of a good tune. Only one handling issue that didn’t match my driving style – I want a bit more turn in, but I don’t think that cost me much time. I was able to adjust, make a slower entry then push for the speed from mid corner off. I do think that choosing to make the transmission a 5 speed rather than a 6 speed held this tune back on the uphill section. There is zero room for error on turn nine at the bottom of the hill. Then when you reach turn five, if you bog the car at all, it cost precious speed. After I finish the other cars I want to come back to this tune, make it a six speed and see if I can get it to run a 2:00.9. Overall a nice tune and a very competitive rally car. Nice work.
JTQmopar - Subaru Impreza Rally Car '01 – fast lap 2:04.721
Not a bad tune, but something was holding this car back. I don’t look at the tunes before I do the test drives. I don’t want to know anything about the tune before I drive it so that I can just enjoy the ride, then think about what made that tune great or short of excellence. I liked turn-in, mid-corner and the gearbox, but corner exit was really bugging me. I could not keep this car straight on exit. Once I noticed the tendency I adjusted my driving, keeping the wheels straight after apex and counter steering like crazy to finish off each corner. When I looked at the tune, everything looked good except for one setting; torque split at 25/75. Chasing that hunch, I changed the torque split (just for feedback) to 50/50 and hit the track again. I only did one fairly clean lap and ran 2:00.559, the fastest I have gone in a Rally car yet. I think this tune, with 50/50 torque split has the potential to cross the two minute barrier. That one setting neutered the 4wd abilities of the car and may have cost you the podium.
Now, for the last two rally cars. First, I owe an apology to Newdriver and Krenkme. I should have done more testing with these older rally cars. One Clueless bonus point isn’t nearly enough for these rear wheel drive monsters. It was a good idea in the points system to encourage use of older cars, but I missed the mark on truly making them competitive. Thank you for giving them a shot. For my next competition I will make a harder run at the Clueless bonus point cars.
NEWDRIVER2 - Nissan 240RS Rally Car ’85 – 2:15.309
This rally car is from the days when rally car drivers were men. Not like today when the likes of Tanner Foust shows up with a stylist, a PR agent and a model on his arm. The rally drivers from this era were stupid crazy, drank heavy beer and ate steak for breakfast. You have done a very nice job at taming this car to make it controllable. It was a fun drive.
Krenkme - Renault 5 Maxi Turbo Rally Car ’85 – 2:15.875
I love the style of this car. Like I mentioned before, there is something about this era of rally cars that is cool. Krenkme, mission accomplished. You set out to ruin the confidence of even the best test driver. Running through my head while testing your car, “I know that I am a better driver than this… I should be able to drive anything, right… what the…” Since I had already driven your car the other night out of curiosity and I had peeked at the tune, I knew the ride height was an issue. I tried the tactic of a chicken – only cross the center of the road if you want to make people laugh at a bad joke. It was a lot like running a rain line on tarmac in real life. You must be careful to cross over the slippery spots and never in the corner. If you want to improve this tune, I would recommend raising the ride height and lowering the LSD across the board. I may play more with this tune once the competition is over. Thanks for entering such a wild car. Someone had to do it.
Driver’s Choice
Gold - Trackripper123 - Ford Escort Rally Car ’98 for it’s handling.
Silver – DigitalBaka - Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR Rally Car (ST205) ’95 for topping the leader board with a fast, fast ride.
Bronze - CyKosis1973 - Ford Escort Rally Car ’98 for that perfect, lane changing balance.
Honorable mention – my own Subaru Impreza WRC 2008 – If I am honest, I love the handling of my tune best, but it just doesn’t stack up on powering up the hill.
Last edited:
- 1,096
- Egypt
- GTP_NEWDRIVER2
- OTS_NEWDRIVER2
Hami my cars photoes i send it to your psn . I hope it help in my score
- 4,079
- Brooklyn, Wi
- krenkme
DigitalBakaA quick start to my timing sheet, comments to follow...
Settings: 10 Laps, DS3, ABS1, MT
Rally Tunes
krenkme: 2'21.589
Rally Commentary
krenkme: I really think krenky is out to kill me.
I have some moments of insanity, but I would never try to harm anyone
.Glad to see that you did survive, and I'll try and make a calmer car next time
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
And the evidence is there for all to see. I eagerly await your next offerings
Superb time, barely a tenth off my fastest. I agree entirely with all you've said, the gearbox started out as a 6 speed, with 6th being reached around the final slight right hander before the top of the hill. However, I've since refreshed the oil at least 3 times and have run a lot of miles. I think that an adjustment to final gear will suffice. I didn't even notice until I was watching my fastest and latest replays that the car held 5th all the way. I think your speed through the essesse halfway up the hill determines what gear you finish the hill in too. Carrying 5th through the essesse did result it some slight bog down.
I also realised, after having driven Ripper's Escort, that both cars suffered from corner exit bogging, particularly on the exit at the top of the hill. Carrying 3rd through that corner was detrimental.
What would be appreciated is if you'd have a look at the diff. I ended up leaving it loose, because I couldn't quite fathom setting up both ends of the car
With a decent diff and a readjusted gearbox, I think it could hunt down your Scoobaroo, DigiB's Celica and xDee's MitsuOtherwise, I appreciate your comments and efforts...
Ironically, I never get this car into 5th up the hill, still the fastest by some margin..!!
I spotted that, and the weird 5th gear effect. Every time I hit 5th, the rear would want to crab. I'm much like you, I don't want to know what the setup is, until I've driven the car. I like to be as unprejudiced as I can...
{Cy}
- 5,814
- Hillsboro Oregon
- XDesperado67
- XDesperado67
Since we are talking about gearing on the cars I'm wondering if anyone has bounced off the rev limiter with my rally car going down the stretch between turns 15-11? I actually tried to adjust my 5th gear to help but a few times I thought I heard it hitting the limiter in turn 13-12 just as I was starting to back off the throttle and preparing to get on the brakes for turn 11.
The long climb up the hill may be very important for lap times as far as speed there goes, but at least with my demented driving the highest speed your likely to achieve on track is in that stretch between turns 15 and 11
The long climb up the hill may be very important for lap times as far as speed there goes, but at least with my demented driving the highest speed your likely to achieve on track is in that stretch between turns 15 and 11
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