DeadNutsEven - Where anyone can win!!

  • Thread starter Johnnypenso
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I must be missing something then. If you equalize straightaway speeds don't the cornering speeds have to then be the same in order to achieve the same laptimes? And if cornering speeds and straightline speeds are the same aren't sector times the same? Again, maybe I'm missing something, but if this is true aren't we back to the same concern again about taking hours per week to qualify each car?
 
dsgerbc
As for AWD - personally I don't feel it has a place in a league that uses reverse start. Negates the point of reverse order, when someone can jump a few places.
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dsgerbc
I'll be honest (see my status). Going in a conga-line is not my idea of fun.
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These were posted after the first set of races-- 12/3/12​

So, after posting these two statements, you then choose an AWD vehicle, that is also nearly impossible to pass. I'm not following your thinking here...

Nobody else in the second set of races chose an AWD car. Now you are in the wrong according to your earlier statements.

dsgerbc
2) I stand by my opinions expressed before. Especially banning the AWD when rear-drive cars are allowed.
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This was posted after the second series of races-- 12/10/12​

I'm not for cliche'd statements, but "Be the change you want to see," could not be more applicable here. In this case, you are essentially complaining about yourself. It was up to you to not fall into using AWD and a poorly handling car. Instead, you contradicted your previous two complaints, and chose a Range Rover.

Everyone in this club has been on their honor, in the first race I won in this group, I disqualified myself for going under the time frame.

I'm glad you're running a more mid-pack car in January, but complaining after every race about problems nobody but you create is not in alignment with the purpose of this club in creating a friendly environment for all types and skill levels of racers.
 
Johnnypenso
I must be missing something then.
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Tune to hit cornering speeds = just that.

Tune to hit 3-4 sector times ≈ tune to have a few corners in that sector amount to the same time.

Tune to hit lap time+top speed ≈ tune to have rough average of all corners come out about the same.

These are all different restrictions on tuning, with the latter being least restrictive.

Ferraridude308
but complaining
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It's sad when people mix up being vocal while trying to make things better and complaining.
 
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Cote Dazur
Orido, what is your tune for the Nissan, GT-R N24 GT Academy '12?
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Here is my tune for the car :D It was a coincidence we had the same car tuned for Cape Ring South :)

Nissan GT-R N24 GT Academy '12
Tuned for Cape Ring South on SH tires, 1:29​


Car is fully broken in I think with over 200 miles on the odo

Horsepower: 340 hp at 7100 RPM
Torque: 489 ft-lb at 3500 RPM
Power Limiter at : 57.7%
Weight: 1720 kg
Ballast Amount : 20 kg
Ballast Position : 39
Weight Distribution : 53/47
Performance Points: 485

Tuning Parts Installed :
Titanium Semi Racing Exhaust
Full Customizable Transmission
Suspension Fully Customizable Kit
Adjustable LSD


LSD
Initial Torque : 6
Acceleration Sensitivity: 10
Braking Sensitivity: 6


Suspension :
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 0 0
Spring Rate: 19.4 13.3
Dampers (Extension): 5 7
Dampers (Compression): 3 5
Anti-Roll Bars: 4 3
Camber Angle: 2.5 2.0
Toe Angle: 0.25 0.05

Brake Balance : 10/5 or a lower one would be 5/1 or 4/0.

Transmission :

Set Final to max, then set top speed to min, adjust gear accordingly like below, then move final to 5.000.

1st : 2.800
2nd : 1.950
3rd : 1.500
4th : 1.200
5th : 1.000
6th : 0.850
Final : 5.000

For better acceleration, increase the final to 5.175 so the top speed shown on the top is 142 mph :D

Notes : Trail braking is a MUST for this car when dealing almost every corner of the track, brake in straight line before the entering the 2nd esses, and be brave with the steering, the car needs a bit more aggressive style to capitalize it's unique grip. With the tune, an easy to achieve mid 1:29 is possible, increase final ratio to gain better acceleration, shift point should be just before 7000 RPM.

The car also might have too much PP for the better driver, if so, decrease PP using power limiter, I recommend :

480pp
Limiter : 55.1%
Power : 325 HP /7300 rpm
Torque : 488 ft-lb/3500 rpm

or

475pp
Limiter : 53.2%
Power : 313 HP /7100 rpm
Torque : 485 ft-lb/3400 rpm


The real advantage of this car is it's ability to maintain higher speed in the last esses, over 105+ mph is possible before braking for the last hairpin :D Enjoy !!
 
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Ridox2JZGTE
Here is my tune for the car :D It was a coincidence we had the same car tuned for Cape Ring South :)

Nissan GT-R N24 GT Academy '12
Tuned for Cape Ring South on SH tires, 1:29

Car is fully broken in I think with over 200 miles on the odo

Horsepower: 340 hp at 7100 RPM
Torque: 489 ft-lb at 3500 RPM
Power Limiter at : 57.7%
Weight: 1720 kg
Ballast Amount : 20 kg
Ballast Position : 39
Weight Distribution : 53/47
Performance Points: 485

Tuning Parts Installed :
Titanium Semi Racing Exhaust
Full Customizable Transmission
Suspension Fully Customizable Kit
Adjustable LSD

LSD
Initial Torque : 6
Acceleration Sensitivity: 10
Braking Sensitivity: 6

Suspension :
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 0 0
Spring Rate: 19.4 13.3
Dampers (Extension): 5 7
Dampers (Compression): 3 5
Anti-Roll Bars: 4 3
Camber Angle: 2.5 2.0
Toe Angle: 0.25 0.05

Brake Balance : 10/5 or a lower one would be 5/1 or 4/0.

Transmission :

Set Final to max, then set top speed to min, adjust gear accordingly like below, then move final to 5.000.

1st : 2.800
2nd : 1.950
3rd : 1.500
4th : 1.200
5th : 1.000
6th : 0.850
Final : 5.000

For better acceleration, increase the final to 5.175 so the top speed shown on the top is 142 mph :D

Notes : Trail braking is a MUST for this car, brake in straight line before the entering the 2nd esses, and be brave with the steering, the car needs a bit more aggressive style to capitalize it's unique grip. With the tune, an easy to achieve mid 1:29 is possible, increase final ratio to gain better acceleration, shift point should be just before 7000 RPM

The real advantage of this car is it's ability to maintain higher speed in the last esses, over 165+ mph is possible before braking for the last hairpin :D Enjoy !!
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Thanks Orido, I am surprised you left the suspension almost untouched, it is the first thing I changed on this car. The adjustment it comes with seems really odd.
 
^ I add some more info and correction, the speed 165+mph should be 105+mph. sorry :D, I'm in the lounge now, anyone feel free to join in and try the N24 tune :)
 
dsgerbc
Tune to hit cornering speeds = just that.

Tune to hit 3-4 sector times ≈ tune to have a few corners in that sector amount to the same time.

Tune to hit lap time+top speed ≈ tune to have rough average of all corners come out about the same.

These are all different restrictions on tuning, with the latter being least restrictive.
Click to expand...

Way,way,way too much time.....far too impractical...not saying it wouldn't work...but too much time
 
I think the general thoughts of DSG have merit, the problem comes from the various drivers that have been drawn to this format of racing. It is safe to say that on an average track, in a spec 450ish car, there would be a range of 3-4 seconds in the lap times from the fastest driver to the slowest driver. Fine tuning cornering speed to make up that much of a difference just isn't going to happen. If we were trying to close the gap of a half second, I could see that really creating some tight racing. Just won't work in this group though. And like JP said, just way too much time. As it is, the part of this format that can become a grind at times is getting the car dialed into the target time. If I had to worry about sector times too, I would probably pass and find a different group to run with.
 
Johnnypenso
Way,way,way too much time.....far too impractical...not saying it wouldn't work...but too much time
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And here I thought you enjoyed tuning. Did I ever say this has to be done by everyone? All I'm asking for is a recommendation for a top-speed on the longest straight. Don't have time - don't try to match it, but people who do happen to have time that week and would like closer racing - would appreciate it if at least one other person is in the same ballpark.
 
Rolling starts would help equal the field.The awd's have too big of an advantage off the line and low power/light weights that are capable of running a equal lap time get buried at the start.

Or

What about the concept that Chuyler used in the 450pp club of theme nights? Have a week of awd cars,cars over 1400 kg,under 900kg,etc.
 
dsgerbc
And here I thought you enjoyed tuning. Did I ever say this has to be done by everyone? All I'm asking for is a recommendation for a top-speed on the longest straight. Don't have time - don't try to match it, but people who do happen to have time that week and would like closer racing - would appreciate it if at least one other person is in the same ballpark.
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If this League was about what I wanted, everyone would be in an S2000 or an RX-8 every week...lol. Unfortunately the rest of the guys would like to ake a shot at the other 1000+ cars in the game and I got overruled. I do enjoy tuning, which is why I tune my cars for Deadnuts. I know some of the othere guys don't like tuning so they do the bare minimum and that works for them.But my mission here isn't to impose my will or preferences on anyone else, I'm just the host for this party, supplying the snacks and booze, and only as a last resort, perhaps ask someone to keep the noise down.

And I already post my top speeds, I started it with Cape Ring South, you'll see it a couple of pages back and a couple of guys have already been discussing it and comparing their tunes. But its only there for reference sake and nothing more, in no way is it a requirement, nor is it ever going to be.

IforceV8
Rolling starts would help equal the field.The awd's have too big of an advantage off the line and low power/light weights that are capable of running a equal lap time get buried at the start.

Or

What about the concept that Chuyler used in the 450pp club of theme nights? Have a week of awd cars,cars over 1400 kg,under 900kg,etc.
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We do have it in the idea bin to have theme weeks of all kinds including single make weeks, drivetrain weeks, car class weeks etc. As a far as limiting drivetrains on a consistent basis, no I don't think that's in the cards.

Let me explain this in another way that might make more sense. And this is directed at the generic "you" not you in particular. You, Me, DSG, Track, NCemt we all raced several seasons in ORCA. I won't mention any names for obvious reasons, but there were a couple of guys we raced with over the various sasons that were always way off the pace, so far off the pace usually that its not a stretch to say they would have a hard time winning an A-spec race. That's no slight on them, they just don't have the time or maybe the innate skill to be as fast as some of the rest of us. But they were there, every week, week in, week out, often getting lapped, but still they never quit, never gave up, never got frustrated or bitter or angry. I admire those guys much more than the guys who consistently beat me like You, Carr and others. You had a reason to be happy about racing, you were winning. They raced for the sheer joy of racing without the faintest chance at winning or even a podium

So if one of those guys showed up here, and hopped into a 4WD to get a better start and ended up winning a race, and this goes for anyone, would you really begrudge him that? Would you feel you that victory in this group, beating this guy who normally is 4 seconds a lap slower than u, is so important that you also had to pick a 4wd so you could beat him?

Because if victory is that important here to anyone then you're missing the point of the group altogether. Of course we all want to win, we are racers, and there are plenty of series where winning is all that matters. But the day I feel I have to hop into a 4wd behemoth to beat some guy who is 3 seconds a lap slower than me outside of Deadnuts, is the day I hang up my racing gloves and throw my DFGT up on Kijiji for beer money. The day I begrudge that same guy who is 3 seconds slower than me for winning because he picked a car that's better off the start or faster in the straights is the day my PS3 goes to the first kid that knocks on my door next Halloween.
 
^ Wow 👍, by the way Johnny, I am going to post a tune for CTR Yellow Bird, the car has 450pp and can get 1:29 consistently, anyone brave enough to race it next week :) it will surely add more variety and spice to the race ;)
 
Johnnypenso
~A magnificent speech~
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:bowdown: Well put JP. I think it addresses the concerns floating about quite nicely.

P.S. I'd love that tune Orido, a Yellowbird sounds like a ton of fun to drive, even though it directly contrasts the OP.
I'll see how consistent I can be with it, and if all pans out accordingly, there will be a yellow Porsche sitting on the grid for Monday. :)
 
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Johnnypenso
So if one of those guys showed up here, and hopped into a 4WD to get a better start and ended up winning a race, and this goes for anyone, would you really begrudge him that? Would you feel you that victory in this group, beating this guy who normally is 4 seconds a lap slower than u, is so important that you also had to pick a 4wd so you could beat him?
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Jeez, I though this was all about maximizing side-by-side racing, but it seems to be so much more....
 
After driving this car and tuned it for several occasion, I decided to test drive it at Cape Ring, surprisingly very good with SH tires.


RUF CTR "Yellow Bird" 87
Tuned for Cape Ring South on SH tires, 1:29​

8265423959_c25817eb47_c_d.jpg

Car has over 30000 miles on the odo, bought from UCD :) Tuned to mimic the power level of an ordinary 1st gen 1970's Turbo 930 but with less fat, a lot less :D The 450PP tune is also great on comfort medium and soft tires.


Maintenance :
Engine Overhaul
Chassis Maintenance

Specs :
Horsepower: 257 hp at 6600 RPM
Torque: 387 ft-lb at 3400 RPM
Power Limiter at : 53.5%
Weight: 1244 kg
Ballast Amount : 94 kg
Ballast Position : -50
Weight Distribution : 45/55
Performance Points: 450

Tuning Parts Installed :
Titanium Racing Exhaust
Full Customizable Transmission
Suspension Fully Customizable Kit
Adjustable LSD


LSD
Initial Torque : 6
Acceleration Sensitivity: 10
Braking Sensitivity: 5


Suspension :
Front, Rear
Ride Height: 0 20
Spring Rate: 7.8 12.8
Dampers (Extension): 4 10
Dampers (Compression): 2 5
Anti-Roll Bars: 5 3
Camber Angle: 2.5 2.8
Toe Angle: 0.15 0.15

Brake Balance : 10/7 or a lower one would be 5/3 or 4/2.

Transmission :

Reset to default, then set final to max, then set top speed to min, adjust gear accordingly like below, then move final to 4.880.

1st : 2.287
2nd : 1.677
3rd : 1.319
4th : 1.089
5th : 0.922
6th : 0.798
Final : 4.880


Notes : As we all know, this "French Blue" Yellow Bird is not one to be mess with, smooth steering, braking and throttle is mandatory, so this car will need extra care to get the 1:29 pace. If needing more power increase the PP, but like I have tested earlier in the lounge, with 465pp tune it can get as low as 1:28.3xxx with cold tires on 2nd lap;) and it can get ugly if one do not pay attention to the Bird's demand :scared:

465PP version ( the 80's 930 Turbo )

Horsepower: 290 hp at 6500 RPM
Torque: 401 ft-lb at 3700 RPM
Power Limiter at : 60.4%


8265425675_71c0d766d8_c_d.jpg

​


The car is so much fun to drive, it has great acceleration, grip on the esses and strong brakes. Enjoy !!:cheers::gtpflag:
 
Hey DeadNut guys!
The name's Jon, and I hope to be racing with you soon! Maybe not the next event, but the one after :D
 
Defjon
Hey DeadNut guys!
The name's Jon, and I hope to be racing with you soon! Maybe not the next event, but the one after :D
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Welcome to the Dead Nuts Even Jon, the sooner you begin the earlier the fun starts.

Send an FR to the DeadNutsEven PSN ID through your PS3 and you will be able to join the lounge and participate in the numerous practice session we have during the week and week end.
 
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Nice post JP, I hope it brings back the harmony and friendly spirit we always enjoyed in this thread and the earliest one.
I wish that some of the guy's you were discribing can read your post and give our league a try.
To me the journey has always been more important than the destination. But they cannot be one without the other.


9H40 Orido and I are in the lounge, practising our skills. :)
 
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I look forward to trying that "Bluebird" tune when I get back in town. Hopefully it's a little tamer beast then it was pre-2.09. If it is, maybe an all Yellowbird race could be in the realm of possibility 💡
 
Johnnypenso
I look forward to trying that "Bluebird" tune when I get back in town. Hopefully it's a little tamer beast then it was pre-2.09. If it is, maybe an all Yellowbird race could be in the realm of possibility 💡
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It's a million % more driveable after 2.09. I can do a full lap around the nurb in it w/o crashing on CH tires and stock tune on the first try now; before it took lots of laps and effort.

If I had more time on weekends, I'd attempt to start a yellowbird league.
 
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dsgerbc
It's a million % more driveable after 2.09. I can do a full lap around the nurb in it w/o crashing on CH tires and stock tune on the first try now; before it took lots of laps and effort.

.
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That would be a pleasant surprise
 
Just found another car that is easy to handle and consistent, Chevrolet Camaro Z28 RM '69, with max ballast, power limiter to 260+hp or less, and min downforce front + rear ( 10/20) it can get into 1:29 consistently. I ran the car with Cote today, had it with softest suspension, min spring rate, min damper, min ARB, max ride height, drives like an old muscle :D

Also ran the Yellow Bird stock, managed 1:27.5xxx in lap 13 or something, ran it to lap 29, steady pace 1:27 high to 1:28 low until lap 25, then it became too much being pushed hard. Lap 29, rear tires at 50%.
 
Defjon1 and aceboy127 have just been added to the Dead Nuts Even lounge.

I am heading there right now for practice

All are welcome

Great fun practicing this afternoon with Orido and Iain, pictures from a very competitive race just like the doctor prescribed.

282523_455533977837132_360771338_n.jpg


61869_455534011170462_594635811_n.jpg

Very tight racing and a close finish between two very different cars.:sly:
 
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Welcome to all the new guys:tup:

So how was the track from a racing standpoint?
 
Entry for December 17, 2012

Naptown25rs / NCemtB / TVR V8S '91 / Standard / 463PP / Tuned / ABS = 1
 
Johnnypenso
Welcome to all the new guys:tup:

So how was the track from a racing standpoint?
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JP, the track is amazing for racing, some very wide curves where we went 2 wide.
2 different esses where it is though to pass.
2 good braking zone followed by wide slow turns.
A long straight were draft will play a role.
To win here you need very good balance between handling and speed. Good braking distance will also help.
This track his a hidden gem.
 
Johnnypenso
Welcome to all the new guys:tup:

So how was the track from a racing standpoint?
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I raced at the track twice, the 1st one was with FerrariDude, then 2nd one with Cote and Iain, the track is very much enjoyable for racing, there are quite a few places where overtaking is highly possible. 1st corner, then entering the 1st esses, the 1st hairpin, and the last hairpin, where braking needs to be perfect.

FR cars would have a bit of trouble exiting the 1st and 2nd hairpin when battling with AWD cars or lightweight cars. I will post some more pictures of what happened during the race with Cote and Iain, the highlights of the race, where in several occasion, me and Cote were very close or side by side entering the tight corner/hairpin and exiting them, well put simply, FR cars just can't beat AWD traction :lol:

But there should no worries, as some of the cars do have better top end, while maybe slower in the esses, or lower top speed but faster in the straight. It's a mixed bag, which will make races interesting and full of surprises on longer laps.

The Fireblade driven by Iain can top higher speed than my Z33, while Cote's Evo TC can have higher cornering speed, while my car have a slight advantage in acceleration and late braking ( compared to the Fireblade but not with the Evo ), the Z33 can't beat the other two in top speed or cornering prowess. Surprisingly, the battle was close for the whole 5 laps, considering the Z33 was the fattest of them all at 1480kg, but might also have the highest HP, 300+HP at 465pp.
 
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Johnnypenso
Welcome to all the new guys:tup:

So how was the track from a racing standpoint?
Click to expand...

Yes it was very close on the bends, especially the tighter ones, but the track is so wide in all the corners and the straights that there's ample room for overtaking, if you're confident with your braking zone.

Agreed, it is a very nice track. Short, but complex, more fun than Suzuka East was because you can go fast - or at least it feels like that when you're in 6th gear in the Fireblade, lol.


Cote Dazur
JP, the track is amazing for racing, some very wide curves where we went 2 wide.
2 different esses where it is though to pass.
2 good braking zone followed by wide slow turns.
A long straight were draft will play a role.
To win here you need very good balance between handling and speed. Good braking distance will also help.
This track his a hidden gem.
Click to expand...
 
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