Are Polyphony Digital victims of their own success?

Tornado

Many of the more critical elements against GT5 and PD come directly from the extremely free usage of words that were used in the run up to its release in contrast with the actual end result. In that respect, GT6 is already doing much better now than GT5 ever was.

Click to expand...

So far, Polyphony have definitely made massive strides in this area. They are still vague and extremely broad in some of their explanations, but I've also been pleasantly surprised to see that they have already been reasonably open about damage, standards and some other details that easily could have been glossed over.

Although, I'd still love to see more transparency in regards to the track/car list.

Yes and no..
my only gripe that i just never seemed to even get was the whole premium standard bull crap.. 👎 that's just a no no..
With a series this good people expect godly results, as buggy " yeah lets say buggy" as GT5 was its more polished than 90% of games out there.. even in its vanilla state..

TheeFrogmanlego

Yes and no..
my only gripe that i just never seemed to even get was the whole premium standard bull crap.. 👎 that's just a no no..

Click to expand...

Seems like a necessity due to time constraints. They can't make all of the cars premium because it would take too long, and scrapping all of the standards, or converting some standards to premium and getting rid of the rest, would upset more people than it would please.

marcus_war

As much as I hate the expression, I agree and slightly disagree.


I'll briefly state why I disagree. I disagree with this because PD had enough time, albeit not as much as they wanted, to get it to a point where at least 90% of the final product and they got 88% done.


All jokes aside, I completely agree that they are victims of their own success. The anticipation of their then-latest title led to an incomplete product, and PD was somewhat placed in a deep-fryer, with the top welded on. The barrage of "we want this" "we want that" shows how ungrateful some people are. Taking and taking but never giving back. PD gives everything to its supporters, and don't ask for much in return.


I compare the phenomenon to the principles of "total freedom."

The principle of total freedom is that no such thing truthfully exists.
Granting such a thing to someone, or a group of people, means
that someone is going to be stripped of all of their freedoms.

So in other words, what are the masses of the ungrateful doing? They are counterproductive, nothing gets accomplished by these long lists of what they want, and don't give a damn about how it gets done, just as long as they get what they want.
​

Click to expand...

Easily the best analysis that I've read on GTPlanet. Thank you for your contribution.

👍 thread.
I have alot of complaints with gt5.The day I got it and saw the jaggies in the rain I gagged.When I saw the crappy standards I said what the heck is this, saw the paint chips I said wooooww. But the thing is, to some people this stuff is what makes the game, like all of the negatives make the game instead of the positives.My whole thing is every single game ever made have issues ( alot of games have the same issues as gt5, dupes? NFS, Dirt and apparently pCars says hi, jaggies ? haha list too long) , we deal with it because we as rational thinking humans know nothing can be perfect.Then again this is a forum, and this is what forums are for,for people to express their opinions, criticisms, and rarely praises.So it is to be expected to see this.

Below is what you said, and for clarity, read what I have placed in bold.

HBR-Roadhog

It is funny how if Forza releases a new title that adds a couple of things and updates the graphics people rave about it where GT adds huge things like Weather/ online play and people come out of the wood work to complain.

Click to expand...

I said - That because people on the internet rarely display empathy towards video game companies. I believe this comes from the fact that people do not stop and think what it would feel like to be criticized for their work on a constant basis.

Click to expand...

HBR-Roadhog

Sorry but that makes no sense in the context of what you were responding to.

Click to expand...

They come out of the woodwork and criticize because they do not put themselves in PDI's shoes. I hope this clarifies what I meant.

Samus

The same can be said of basically any game since the internet existed. It doesn't mean they don't have issues though. Look at any series/title that has completely gone down the pan, lost millions of sales. Were those millions on the internet complaining? Of course not, they still didn't buy the next game though.

Click to expand...

Of course they do. But the problem remains that critics, both "professional" and "arm-chair" alike have made things far more difficult for gaming companies to survive. Plus, to many of these critics speak without consequence.

I'm not saying there is any evidence that will happen to GT any time soon though.

Click to expand...

Of course not because even with all the things GT does wrong, it still does a lot right.

machschnel

Criticism comes with the responsibility of being paid to do a job. I (and I'm sure countless others on GTPlanet) experience this daily. It's called reality.

Click to expand...

Speaking of GTPlanet. One of the gripes I have seen in the 5 years I have been here is people complaining about a lack of developer presence. Perhaps if GTPlanet wasn't such a pool of aggressiveness, PDI would be more willing to mingle with the fans here.

Think about it. If I worked for PDI, I would think twice about coming here to speak with people who do nothing but post bullet point after bullet point of what's wrong.

Also, empathy is for your fellow man, not for a bloody (multi million dollar) company.

Click to expand...

A company ran and staffed by your fellow man. Do not forget that very thing. Perhaps a man with a family... see where I am going with this?

SlipZtrEm

As Max has pointed out; GTP is a small minority in the grand scheme of GT5 owners.

Click to expand...

Indeed it is, although I believe it is vital.

Rude, I'll agree, there is no need for it - which is why I've personally handed out warnings and infractions to people when they resort to petty name-calling of Kaz and co.

Click to expand...

You know something Slip... I never knew that. I am actually proud of that fact and I hope that GTPlanet is rewarded for this.

marcus_war

So in other words, what are the masses of the ungrateful doing? They are counterproductive, nothing gets accomplished by these long lists of what they want, and don't give a damn about how it gets done, just as long as they get what they want.

Click to expand...

That. Is. Awesome.

marcus_war

...Taking and taking but never giving back. PD gives everything to its supporters, and don't ask for much in return.

I compare the phenomenon to the principles of "total freedom."

The principle of total freedom is that no such thing truthfully exists.
Granting such a thing to someone, or a group of people, means
that someone is going to be stripped of all of their freedoms.

So in other words, what are the masses of the ungrateful doing? They are counterproductive, nothing gets accomplished by these long lists of what they want, and don't give a damn about how it gets done, just as long as they get what they want.
​

Click to expand...

Succinct and indeed, nicely said.

TokoTurismo

Very well said. 👍

Click to expand...

Cheers

FuelAirSpark View Post
Are PD a victim of their own success? I think they are. There were 3 Suzuka layouts in GT4: main, east, and west tracks. In GT5, only main and east were included. I don't understand why they couldn't if the main track was there. It's little things like that...

Not really understanding what you are saying there - PD are a victim of their own success, so they purposefully leave out a track?

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the expression 'victim of their own success'. I thought it meant they have been so successful they have become complacent.
I guess it means, in this context, they have been so successful that they are unfairly scrutinized.
Thanks for asking to clarify. I apologize again for my ignorance.
So I should have said: no, they aren't victims. As example, I have heard that the lack of tracks was because it takes many man hours to construct a track. Look at Suzuka, a track already in game. The east section was there but they left out the west section. Seems complacent to me.

FuelAirSpark

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the expression 'victim of their own success'. I thought it meant they have been so successful they have become complacent.
I guess it means, in this context, they have been so successful that they are unfairly scrutinized.
Thanks for asking to clarify. I apologize again for my ignorance.
So I should have said: no, they aren't victims. As example, I have heard that the lack of tracks was because it takes many man hours to construct a track. Look at Suzuka, a track already in game. The east section was there but they left out the west section. Seems complacent to me.

Click to expand...

No worries - just wanted to be sure.

It is a mystery as you rightly say, the whole track has been modelled - perhaps they had plans for a retro track-pack and were keeping that back, or maybe it was due to constraints such as available disc space.

I know that they basically have the whole, but a substantial portion of the full track with the East section blocked off would probably need to be a file as large as the full track; so it seems to me they'd effectively have two and so posibly would have had to lose another track as a result.

Okay, that last was pure speculation on my part, as I don't know anything about file structuring for games, but it is an example. i can't believe that it would be down to complacency though, there was more likely a trade-off in play. Suzuka West or something else.

SCER

You could say that they use a lack of competition as an excuse to be mediocre, but I look at the fact that there is no competition, and nothing like them in console gaming, and appreciate them because of it. If PD stopped making games, what would I play then? I'd probably stop playing console games altogether.

Click to expand...

Agreed except the excuse part. It's not an excuse that the lack of competition breeds complacency on the part of PD, but it's simply how the marketplace works. Competition brings out the best in everyone, breeds innovation and revolutionary change. Without competition, the marketplace tends to stagnate because you don't have to innovate or get better to succeed.

Like you, I'll still play the game. Old habits, lack of interest in trying out other sims with a long learning curve, it's like an old familiar set of sneakers or that old tattered hat you just can't give away...lol. Other than NHL 13 it's the only game I've really played since GT5 hit the markeplace.

maxpontiac

Speaking of GTPlanet. One of the gripes I have seen in the 5 years I have been here is people complaining about a lack of developer presence. Perhaps if GTPlanet wasn't such a pool of aggressiveness, PDI would be more willing to mingle with the fans here.

Think about it. If I worked for PDI, I would think twice about coming here to speak with people who do nothing but post bullet point after bullet point of what's wrong.

Click to expand...

Most successful, long term businesses are better served by running towards their harshest critics and not away. You don't learn anything new from people who say nice things and like everything you do. You learn and grow by listening to people who think you aren't doing all that you can do, and working harder to improve your product.

If PD wants to improve, this is the very first place they should be. Nobody knows the intricacies of their product better than the members of GTP.

I'm sure you're right. Love the game and wish them success.

I actually discussed this in the Rewind earlier this year:

It would appear that Polyphony needs to take point and return to the days where they had to put both feet forward and stomp hard, because while GT2 is not only outdated and woefully unrealistic by today’s comparisons, it still manages to have more character than all three of it’s successors—dare I say, combined. Of course I speak from a slight bias but the fact remains that Gran Turismo 2 maintained an almost equal focus among the many disciplines offered in the game, and placed importance on it’s core functionality.

The list of features, let alone cars and tracks that were cut from future installments is still a wrong that needs to righted as far as I’m concerned. At this point Gran Turismo is a victim of it’s own success, and while that’s not explicitly a bad thing, it’s not a good thing either.

Click to expand...

So in a word? Yes.

Johnnypenso

Most successful, long term businesses are better served by running towards their harshest critics and not away. You don't learn anything new from people who say nice things and like everything you do. You learn and grow by listening to people who think you aren't doing all that you can do, and working harder to improve your product.

If PD wants to improve, this is the very first place they should be. Nobody knows the intricacies of their product better than the members of GTP.

Click to expand...

I agree.

They'd be idiots to actually identify themselves to the members of the site, because they would be overwhelmed with stupid requests. But if they're not at least taking the odd look at stuff like the Feedback section and some of the longer complaint threads, they're really doing it wrong.

Johnnypenso

Most successful, long term businesses are better served by running towards their harshest critics and not away. You don't learn anything new from people who say nice things and like everything you do. You learn and grow by listening to people who think you aren't doing all that you can do, and working harder to improve your product.

Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct in saying this and in fact, I have done this very thing throughout the course of my design career. However, when someone is going out of their way to tell me everything I did wrong, I will most likely not listen to them.

With that said, when a customer comes to me with telling me all the things they love about their home all the while offering some suggestions at the same time, I pay attention to them. Why? They understand that respect and courtesy goes along a way, even if something I have done has made them unhappy.

If PD wants to improve, this is the very first place they should be. Nobody knows the intricacies of their product better than the members of GTP.

Click to expand...

I agree with this statement as the members of GTPlanet have taken GT5 under the microscope and exposed every wrinkle and blemish. Yet, PDI does not have a public presence here on the website.

Why do you think that is?

HBR-Roadhog

It is funny how if Forza releases a new title that adds a couple of things and updates the graphics people rave about it where GT adds huge things like Weather/ online play and people come out of the wood work to complain.

Click to expand...

I don't see how the half-arsed implementation of features that have been widely available in other racing games for years (OMG ONLINE!!111) are enough to make people forget about the issues that are still carried over from as far back as the first game.

maxpontiac

I agree with this statement as the members of GTPlanet have taken GT5 under the microscope and exposed every wrinkle and blemish. Yet, PDI does not have a public presence here on the website.

Click to expand...

PD don't have a public presence, full stop.

They don't even have one on their own website.

maxpontiac

Why do you think that is?

Click to expand...

That's the manner in which they operate, we know they do take notice of what is said here. However I don't expect them to get involved in an open dialog on any site.

The implication you are making is that GT Planet is just too nasty for PD, which is nonsense.

maxpontiac

You are absolutely correct in saying this and in fact, I have done this very thing throughout the course of my design career. However, when someone is going out of their way to tell me everything I did wrong, I will most likely not listen to them.

With that said, when a customer comes to me with telling me all the things they love about their home all the while offering some suggestions at the same time, I pay attention to them. Why? They understand that respect and courtesy goes along a way, even if something I have done has made them unhappy.
Why do you think that is?

Click to expand...

Scaff said the same as I would say to most of your post but I'll add this. As a business owner you can't afford to just listen to feedback from those that wrap it like a Christmas present and put a bow on it. You have to listen to everyone and be a big enough person or in this case company, to not take it personally or be personally affected by how the message is delivered. I've found that your harshest critics and angriest customers often deliver the most honest, unwhitewashed feedback you'll ever get. I don't need to hear what you love about my service or product before I listen to you, I already know what I do right and I'm a big enough person to not need my ego stroked before I listen to feedback.

maxpontiac

I agree with this statement as the members of GTPlanet have taken GT5 under the microscope and exposed every wrinkle and blemish. Yet, PDI does not have a public presence here on the website.

Why do you think that is?

Click to expand...

Possibly because they are a near-infamously secluded Japanese developer with what 15-20 years ago would have been called a "rock star" lead director in the vein of John Romero and Yuji Naka; and this is an unofficial American fansite that is small potatoes compared to Sony's official message boards that PD also don't have a presence on. Unless you have an example of a Japanese studio directly reaching out to fans outside of their own region; because I can tell you that the closest I've seen happen in the Sonic fandom (that I've been a regular member of for 10 years now) is community leaders are invited to official events and occasionally given interviews with the leaders of the development teams, which is pretty well in-line with what has happened on GTP for the past few years.



And if this is indeed another attempt to make a nebulous point about how the atmosphere of GTP is just too toxic for them to have a presence regardless as Scaff said above, keep in mind that:

I’m sick & tired of y’all sayin this stuff about a game that ISN’T FINISHED YET! I wish misfortune on you & your ancestors for generations to come.

Click to expand...

And why not? They aren’t releasign until november or whatever. When they made GT5 they worked up until the last minute. What makes you think they won’t this time?

I swear a new GT brings out all the morons to complain about an unfinished game with backwards logic

Click to expand...

You seem lifeless, so please die.

Click to expand...

I didn’t go on GTPLanet for about 2 months after GT5 was released. I’ve never had so much fun with a game in my life, and I’m sure GT6 will be better. Plus, I hate forums. I only use them to meet peopel to race with. There’s way to many whiney 🤬 on forums

Click to expand...

That goes both ways. I'd certainly hope people at PD wouldn't be more willing to discuss with people like that just because they are being "defended" by them.

Let me just make this clear: I believe that feedback both good and bad are keys to growth as a person and company. I am just trying to stress how I believe how poor the delivery is when it comes to Gran Turismo.

Scaff

PD don't have a public presence, full stop. They don't even have one on their own website.

Click to expand...

That is exactly my point. They don't have a forum available for the net because all it takes is a few minutes at any given gaming website which isn't strictly moderated and you will see nothing but people listing what they want over and over again.

That's the manner in which they operate, we know they do take notice of what is said here. However I don't expect them to get involved in an open dialog on any site.

Click to expand...

And it's a shame too. 10 million people have purchased GT5 and yet PDI still doesn't want to get involved with the public. Do they perceive the GT fan base as spoiled and demanding? I sure hope not.

The implication you are making is that GT Planet is just too nasty for PD, which is nonsense.

Click to expand...

I expect you to say that, but the fact remains it's the truth. Whether or not you choose to accept that is on you. Look at the GT6 section...

Johnnypenso

As a business owner you can't afford to just listen to feedback from those that wrap it like a Christmas present and put a bow on it. You have to listen to everyone and be a big enough person or in this case company, to not take it personally or be personally affected by how the message is delivered. I've found that your harshest critics and angriest customers often deliver the most honest, unwhitewashed feedback you'll ever get. I don't need to hear what you love about my service or product before I listen to you, I already know what I do right and I'm a big enough person to not need my ego stroked before I listen to feedback.

Click to expand...

Let me clarify this a bit more. Lets just say 15 years ago I designed you a home to build. You loved what I was able to accomplish so much you came back three more times as each time represented some improvements to the base layout of the plan. Mind you, none of the designs were perfect, but great non the less.

For the fifth time, the design phase went the same as the previous ones as you left my office to build this home. You thanked me, paid me for my services and we went our separate ways. I believed my services for you were exceptional but little did I know, you had an internet blog in which you were complaining about everything I did. I took notice of it and worked a lot harder for the 6th version of the plan you buying from me and before I even completed the project, you were back posting issues you have with a preliminary design I gave you. Lets just say you kept posting the same thing day in and day out even though the project wasn't due to break ground for 6 months!

Needless to say, that behavior would change the way things are done between us. This is not about ego or pride as it's about courtesy towards another person. Remember, behind the GTR, Kaz is a man who is very passionate about what he does, and last time I checked people enjoy compliments a lot more then repeating criticism. I also imagine the people employed by PDI are somewhat puzzled by the behavior of the internet over GT5 when they see the excellent success the game has had with it's sales.

I never said I would shut the annoyed and over-critical person off completely, but I did say that someone who can do both is far more effective in communicating valuable feedback.

Tornado

I can tell you that the closest I've seen happen in the Sonic fandom (that I've been a regular member of for 10 years now) is community leaders are invited to official events and occasionally given interviews with the leaders of the development teams, which is pretty well in-line with what has happened on GTP for the past few years.

Click to expand...

Ok, so now we have GTPlanet having the honor of attending GT events. Now while I am thankful for Jordan's hard work and dedication (it has to be expensive endeavor) he wasn't the sole recipient of an invitation to the 15th Anniversary event.

With that said, there could be a golden opportunity here as Jordan's website is now the radar for Sony and PDI. Eventually, PDI will open up and have a public place to interact with the fans, why can't it be GTPlanet? Why can't GTPlanet become the force that helps pave the way for this? GTPlanet crashed on 5.15, can you imagine the traffic if PDI were to actually blog on the news section? WOW!

And if this is indeed another attempt to make a nebulous point about how the atmosphere of GTP is just too toxic for them to have a presence regardless

Click to expand...

Hey, I go out of my way to thank Jordan for all of his hard work, but seriously man, think about it. There are over 10.5 million GT5 buyers out there and only 250k people registered here, and out of that number, who knows how many are active.

- Why aren't the other 10 million plus people coming here?
- Does anyone not believe that PDI doesn't see that?
- Could something be done here to bring some of that massive number here?
- Or is the GT6 section going to be known as the place for complaints?

Questions, questions, questions.

I think it's really cool to see Jordan get the invite to Silverstone and when 5.15 came about, one of the first things I did was log on to see what goodies Jordan was going to bring to all of us. What if he was given the opportunity to get more? Perhaps he did, perhaps he didn't.

as Scaff said above, keep in mind that goes both ways. I'd certainly hope people at PD wouldn't be more willing to discuss with people like that just because they are being "defended" by them.

Click to expand...

I don't believe they are per se, but you must understand that it would sure be a lot easier for PDI to transition into the internet age if perhaps PDI was treated more professionally.

maxpontiac

You are absolutely correct in saying this and in fact, I have done this very thing throughout the course of my design career. However, when someone is going out of their way to tell me everything I did wrong, I will most likely not listen to them.

With that said, when a customer comes to me with telling me all the things they love about their home all the while offering some suggestions at the same time, I pay attention to them. Why? They understand that respect and courtesy goes along a way, even if something I have done has made them unhappy.



I agree with this statement as the members of GTPlanet have taken GT5 under the microscope and exposed every wrinkle and blemish. Yet, PDI does not have a public presence here on the website.

Why do you think that is?

Click to expand...

I take it from the way that you highlighted and emphasized the word "public" that you speculate they may have a not so public presence. Why would they choose to do it that way? Because they'd be bombarded with complaints and they'd likely not get a representative sample of the user base, in the same way that random polling is deemed accurate but self-sought out surveys are not.

maxpontiac

I expect you to say that, but the fact remains it's the truth. Whether or not you choose to accept that is on you. Look at the GT6 section...

Click to expand...

What about the GT6 section? You can't just say "GTP has such an awful atmosphere," then use you saying that it does as proof in and of itself for why PD doesn't have an internet presence here even after other reasons are pointed out for what the case could be.

Is GTP to blame for PD's lack of internet presence on Sony's official Playstation forums? What about starting their own forums? They could even "creatively" interpret which discussion is allowed (like discussion praising them) and which discussion is not (like discussion criticizing them) as certain other companies have done (EA, for example) if criticism bothers them that much; but instead there is nothing. But GTP's atmosphere is still to blame for them not being here when they are nowhere else either?

maxpontiac

- Why aren't the other 10 million plus people coming here?

Click to expand...

For the exact reason that you regularly use as ammunition yourself: The overwhelming majority of those 10 million players are just going to play the game rather than comment on it and don't care about discussing it. The most this site would ever hope to become in relation to PD is a direct news outlet; which doesn't directly lead to new members discussing that news anyway.

maxpontiac

- Does anyone not believe that PDI doesn't see that?

Click to expand...

See what? That only a small portion of the people who play their games joins message boards to talk about them? Why should they expect any different?

Kaz's twitter page is a direct outlet to him, and is the only direct outlet into the internal happenings of PD short of the occasional interviews and press releases. He's even conversed with people asking about GT5 additions and given previews of what is coming in future updates; and has given out information about GT6 since then. Now, even allowing for the fact that it is all in Japanese, 35,000 followers is a pretty small number of people compared to GT series sales in the region; so why should GTP be any different as an international site?

maxpontiac

- Could something be done here to bring some of that massive number here?

Click to expand...

No, because it is an inherent aspect to any franchise that only a fraction of them will take the effort to comment on it. Even official forums run by the developers of games don't have millions of members on them; so you can't very well turn around and act as if it's related somehow to PD being kept away by the above.

maxpontiac

- Or is the GT6 section going to be known as the place for complaints?

Click to expand...

I see an awful lot of discussion going on that isn't complaints, and even one or two "no criticism allowed" threads started every few months; so I dunno about you. Ditto the GT5 forum, and the GTPSP forum as well, and those are the three forums I've seen created from the start since I've been a GTP member.

maxpontiac

I don't believe they are per se, but you must understand that it would sure be a lot easier for PDI to transition into the internet age if perhaps PDI was treated more professionally.

Click to expand...

So the people like those who made those comments, all of which were from regular posters on GTP according to the names they posted under, somehow are treating PD more professionally?

maxpontiac

Let me clarify this a bit more. Lets just say 15 years ago I designed you a home to build. You loved what I was able to accomplish so much you came back three more times as each time represented some improvements to the base layout of the plan. Mind you, none of the designs were perfect, but great non the less.

For the fifth time, the design phase went the same as the previous ones as you left my office to build this home. You thanked me, paid me for my services and we went our separate ways. I believed my services for you were exceptional but little did I know, you had an internet blog in which you were complaining about everything I did. I took notice of it and worked a lot harder for the 6th version of the plan you buying from me and before I even completed the project, you were back posting issues you have with a preliminary design I gave you. Lets just say you kept posting the same thing day in and day out even though the project wasn't due to break ground for 6 months!

Needless to say, that behavior would change the way things are done between us. This is not about ego or pride as it's about courtesy towards another person. Remember, behind the GTR, Kaz is a man who is very passionate about what he does, and last time I checked people enjoy compliments a lot more then repeating criticism. I also imagine the people employed by PDI are somewhat puzzled by the behavior of the internet over GT5 when they see the excellent success the game has had with it's sales.

I never said I would shut the annoyed and over-critical person off completely, but I did say that someone who can do both is far more effective in communicating valuable feedback.

Click to expand...

See, I'd handle it differently in your case. I'd just go directly to the problem and talk it out and find out why the person had such an issue with my work. Generally when you do that, and have confidence you did a good job, you find that it stems either from a misunderstanding that led to false expectations, or there is some personal issue with the other person, unrelated to your business, that manifests itself as anger towards you and likely others.

In Kaz's case I think there's a simple reason why PD has no presence here or anywhere else on the net. It's a no-win, blackhole scenario. There are numerous, unexplainable and undefendable flaws or weaknesses in the game. There are numerous decisions they made that fall into the same category (2.11should be fresh on everyone's mind). The audience is so broad, that most likey any representative of PD would be forced to give canned, politically correct, nearly meaningless answers. Like so:

Fan: Why did you choose to incorporate all the standards in the game, when so many people clearly see this as a weakness?

PD: We didn't have the resources to convert all the cars to premium. It takes 6 man-months to make a premium car which translates into 400 years!!! of work. We felt it was best to make as many premiums as time and budget allowed, maintaining the highest quality standards, while still allowing the use of standard cars to those that want to drive them. We felt it was a win-win scenario.

I mean what else can they say?

SCER

Although you might not get the impression from forums, PD are hugely successful, and I can't help but feel that the reason that random people on the internet are making demands about what appears in their next game, and threatening not to buy the game, is because the Gran Turismo franchise is just so good. Does anybody agree with me on this?

I was watching the extended youtube video a few minutes ago, and the top rated comment was a list of things that Gran Turismo 6 needs to have. There seems to be no appreciation of the work that they do, just demands of more and more.

Lest we forget the years of work, sacrifice and sleepless nights that Kazunori Yamauichi put into making the original Gran Turismo people. Whenever someone attacks PD for laziness, I always hold my tongue, rather than suggest that they should make their own racing sim like Kaz did.

Click to expand...

Just because they're successful in selling games doesn't mean they're selling something that remains competitive.

You ask if they're victims of their own success and I say that they could be if they don't improve their game. GT is not the best game of its type on the market. Forza definitely holds that title. Polyphony used to be the leader but GT3 was probably the last revolutionary version they released. Since then, the competition has done nothing but innovated.

The only thing GT has anymore that really matters is the driving experience and feel - which I love and think is very important - but that's not enough. I can make better engine noises with my mouth. I've grown up and become and adult and have actually swapped crazy engines into weird cars before Polyphony let me do it digitally.

PD has effectively been selling the same product for 15 years now. It shines like a diamond in a goat's ass, yeah, but that's light years away from being set in gold on a supermodel's finger.

Here's the breakdown: If iRacing wasn't so expensive I would not play GT. If Forza offered the driving feel that I desire I wouldn't even have a PS3. I bought GT5 and had fun with it for a while because I think PD can work wonders if they tried but I'm losing faith. They're riding on their success from 10 years ago and if they don't implement features the competition has had for years, much less innovate, then they're start losing fans and support will suffer.

EDIT: I've long seen PD as being stuck in they're own little bubble. I don't believe they measure or test the competition. I'm not so sure they know what Forza is. GT Academy is rad but that doesn't effect me - cars that sound like vacuum cleaners effect everybody. They need to step outside and consider their fans more. Stop making the game exclusively for themselves.

Not much more to add really. You'd have thought that years of success would equate to more creative freedom, and fewer fans clamouring to have their preferences added to future releases, but apparently it's the opposite.

I mean, call me crazy, but isn't 68 million units sold enough proof that Polyphony Digital are a professional business? This isn't politics, and try as you might, you can't tell PD what to do.

Not at all. They are a business built on making their customers happy. It doesn't matter how many good movies a director makes, how many hamburgers a restaurant sells... in the end it's all up to the people dropping money on your product. If you can't make a product the fans want to pay you for you don't have a product. Best thing they can do is listen.

Edit: You can't and shouldn't add everything fans ask for but damage was added thanks to fans and most are asking for a livery editor. Those both have/would improve the game.
I think it would be crazy not to listen to a large amount of fans asking for something from your product.

Look at where Capcom is headed with Devil May Cry and Resident Evil. Capcom are telling their fans what the fans want...and they are wrong.

Isn't this about the same as "Are Polyphony Digital victims of their own success?"?

To answer the title question I would say No. Because they already had and continue to have that right. They can and always have been able to do what they want to do.

That said it helps to know what people want if your goal is to make money. The problem is you can't give them everything. Someone has to determine which things people want most and which things make the most sense to put into the software to create a product in a timely and cost effective manner that people will want to buy.

I think this discussion should go in the old thread where I brought up the point, here, instead of a new thread.