Are Polyphony Digital victims of their own success?

[Tornado]

And what gaffe was that?

 

[SCER]

And what gaffe was that?

He initially said that we should, as GT fans, expect perfection, and then when I paraphrased him he asked me where I got the idea of expecting perfection from

 

[MeanElf]

Tornado's just messin' with you...I think.

 

[Tornado]

machschnel was paraphrasing something Kaz said. It doesn't become his gaffe just because you didn't hear it when Kaz originally said it.

 

[BoneSawTX]

On the PS3. I don't know many people that are switching to X-Box for Forza, and the people I know that do play Forza say that it's more arcade-y than Gran Turismo. And also, with the X-Box One looking as bad as it does, I can't see Forza becoming bigger than Gran Turismo.

I switched in January, it's just as Arcade-y as GT. I have as much fun playing fm4 as much as I did with GT to GT4. Xbox one looked fine to me and I'll be switching to that also.

I may or may not get gt6, pd has done great with graphics and physics but that's about it. Nothing much else has been improved.

 

[SCER]

machschnel was paraphrasing something Kaz said. It doesn't become his gaffe just because you didn't hear it when Kaz originally said it.

Ohhhhhhh, I was completely unaware of that. Haha, sorry I thought that you were being sarcastic earlier so I was getting a bit confused. Ah that's interesting, and changes things somewhat. I wish he'd mentioned that he was quoting Kaz

 

[MeanElf]

machschnel was paraphrasing something Kaz said. It doesn't become his gaffe just because you didn't hear it when Kaz originally said it.

Well, machschnel made his own gaffe by stating something and then forgeting he said it - at least that's how it looked.

 

[SCER]

I switched in January, it's just as Arcade-y as GT. I have as much fun playing fm4 as much as I did with GT to GT4. Xbox one looked fine to me and I'll be switching to that also.

I may or may not get gt6, pd has done great with graphics and physics but that's about it. Nothing much else has been improved.

Hmm, so far the majority of people I've spoken to/website commentaries say that the Xbox one looks awful, so I was really commenting on general trends rather than individuals with that.

 

[Tornado]

Ohhhhhhh, I was completely unaware of that. Haha, sorry I thought that you were being sarcastic earlier so I was getting a bit confused. Ah that's interesting, and changes things somewhat. I wish he'd mentioned that he was quoting Kaz

The "Expect Perfection" interview:

I’ll only say one thing. Our team of engineers did not want to do something that has already been seen in other games. No. I wanted something completely different and new. Yes, expect perfection.

Linky.


The "It can be release now" interview:

"I want to release it as fast as I can," Yamauchi told us, "but GT5 for us, when you talk about its status, it's at a point we can release it any time we want, but we can always keep working on it. It's very important for us to make sure everything is done perfectly and everything is done in detail."

Linky.







Many of the more critical elements against GT5 and PD come directly from the extremely free usage of words that were used in the run up to its release in contrast with the actual end result. In that respect, GT6 is already doing much better now than GT5 ever was.

 

[BoneSawTX]

Hmm, so far the majority of people I've spoken to/website commentaries say that the Xbox one looks awful, so I was really commenting on general trends rather than individuals with that.

Looks I don't care about, does it function like its supposed to and do as advertised is what I'd be concerned about. Same if I was in the market for a ps4. The thing I see people complain about is the always connected, well every time I switch on my Xbox I connect to the Internet so that's also of no concern me

 

[nickg07]

What if your internet is down and you just want to play offline?

 

[SCER]

Looks I don't care about, does it function like its supposed to and do as advertised is what I'd be concerned about. Same if I was in the market for a ps4. The thing I see people complain about is the always connected, well every time I switch on my Xbox I connect to the Internet so that's also of no concern me

Ah you've misunderstood me, when I say 'looks', I mean, how good it's new features are and generally how good we can expect it to be compared to the PS4. And a lot of people aren't happy about various things like mandatory pre-used game installation for each account, and kinect having to be always on, and charging you more based on the number of people in the room playing it.

 

[SCER]

The "Expect Perfection" interview:

I see, he sure dug himself a hole there. To be honest I'd say that anyone expecting perfection after that was naive, and that everyone makes mistakes, especially when trying to satisfy/impress people, though that has to be high on the list of things game developers shouldn't say.

 

[MeanElf]

...Many of the more critical elements against GT5 and PD come directly from the extremely free usage of words that were used in the run up to its release in contrast with the actual end result. In that respect, GT6 is already doing much better now than GT5 ever was.

True, they seem to be showing rather than just saying this time around.

Looks I don't care about...The thing I see people complain about is the always connected, well every time I switch on my Xbox I connect to the Internet so that's also of no concern me

I for one would be concerned about the needing to connect once in every 24hrs which seems nonsensical - I mean why even include such an arbitrary timeframe? Especially as I know a few gamers of the more mature stripe who do not play every day. Anyway, hopefully for those who are buying that console, that will change.

 

[syntex123]

Although you might not get the impression from forums, PD are hugely successful, and I can't help but feel that the reason that random people on the internet are making demands about what appears in their next game, and threatening not to buy the game, is because the Gran Turismo franchise is just so good. Does anybody agree with me on this?

I was watching the extended youtube video a few minutes ago, and the top rated comment was a list of things that Gran Turismo 6 needs to have. There seems to be no appreciation of the work that they do, just demands of more and more.

Lest we forget the years of work, sacrifice and sleepless nights that Kazunori Yamauichi put into making the original Gran Turismo people. Whenever someone attacks PD for laziness, I always hold my tongue, rather than suggest that they should make their own racing sim like Kaz did.

True. He spent weeks at the office, going home only to shower. Same with other employees.
They really should get more appreciation

 

[SlipZtrEm]

It's fine to have things you'd want them to do, but it's important to appreciate them as well. From the perspective of pure self-interest, it could well make them more interested in listening to opinions. Let's face it, if their games were so frustrating and terrible and they were such awful game developers, you wouldn't be here.

They are providing me a product, one used for a pastime or a hobby. If the product does not measure up to my expectations (or, in the case of GT5, even some of the things written on the game case), I don't think it's unreasonable to voice my displeasure. If I bought a baseball bat and it cracked after one use, I wouldn't sit around and simply appreciate the work the company did.

They're not being paid to do a job. They're being paid by people that appreciate their work, after they've done a job. If they did a bad job, they wouldn't get paid.

No, they would still get paid. They still do get paid.

if you buy a game and it doesn't live up to your expectations, you take it back, but really you should have researched it better, and worked out what you were buying.

Overlooking that these days, you can't take a game back (you can resell it for a fraction of the cost, but that's it), please do explain how one should be able to research every aspect of a game without actually experiencing it.

I like the idea that if I don't like a game, though, that it's only my fault.

Making things up doesn't help your cause.

...

And I don't lie about the competition to further my agenda.

I'd bet... what was the number again... $100 million, that that's not true. Or which number are you creating this time?

 

[C_Raccoon23]

True. He spent weeks at the office, going home only to shower. Same with other employees.
They really should get more appreciation

I showed my appreciation through my hard-earned money I spent on their games.

 

[SCER]

I showed my appreciation through my hard-earned money I spent on their games.

But you haven't yet given them any money for their future games, so by your logic you can't complain about any of the current knowledge that you have of GT6. And yet hundreds of people are complaining about things that wont be in in GT6.

They are providing me a product, one used for a pastime or a hobby. If the product does not measure up to my expectations (or, in the case of GT5, even some of the things written on the game case), I don't think it's unreasonable to voice my displeasure. If I bought a baseball bat and it cracked after one use, I wouldn't sit around and simply appreciate the work the company did.

*sigh*

I have no issue with criticism, just the disproportionate, uninformed, unrealistic, and downright rude criticism that I often see.

No, they would still get paid. They still do get paid.

As a business, if nobody liked, and thus purchased their products, they wouldn't make money, and they'd be bust after a couple of generations. The financial safety net they have is of their own making, so yes, I guess they still would get paid.

Overlooking that these days, you can't take a game back (you can resell it for a fraction of the cost, but that's it), please do explain how one should be able to research every aspect of a game without actually experiencing it.

I like the idea that if I don't like a game, though, that it's only my fault.

I've never bought a game, only to find that it's so far below my expectations that I need to complain about it for days, weeks even. That's basically the crux of what I'm trying to say in this thread.

I didn't say that it's your fault if you don't like a game, but like I said, I've never bought a game, and found it to be massively far away from my informed expectations of it.



I'm glad I've managed to polarise people with this thread though. Some good debates going on.

 

[Ills1999]

Making things up doesn't help your cause.

So.

Two questions.

What's my "cause"?

What am I "making up"?

 

[syntex123]

I showed my appreciation through my hard-earned money I spent on their games.

Same here. And enjoying them all, not complaining about their lacks. I accepted them, and I respect them, they may have to improve something, but I don't care, great games I appreciate every moment with the GT series 👍

 

[SlipZtrEm]

*sigh*

I have no issue with criticism, just the disproportionate, uninformed, unrealistic, and downright rude criticism that I often see.

Disproportionate? To what? As Max has pointed out; GTP is a small minority in the grand scheme of GT5 owners. Uninformed? This is a website dedicated to the series; casuals would be the likely source of uninformed comments, those of us who've spent countless hours with not just GT5, but the entire series (and, almost as importantly, its competition)? Not so much. Unrealistic in what way? Rude, I'll agree, there is no need for it - which is why I've personally handed out warnings and infractions to people when they resort to petty name-calling of Kaz and co.

As a business, if nobody liked, and thus purchased their products, they wouldn't make money, and they'd be bust after a couple of generations. The financial safety net they have is of their own making, so yes, I guess they still would get paid.

Call of Duty is the butt of a lot of jokes and, apparently (I've never played it) not a particular good game (series). Yet, it rakes in money.

I've never bought a game, only to find that it's so far below my expectations that I need to complain about it for days, weeks even. That's basically the crux of what I'm trying to say in this thread.

Fair point. Though personally, I'm so critical of the series because I want it to succeed. If I didn't care, well... why would I care if it improves at all? This is the series that cemented my interest in automobiles, so to see it stagnating in certain ways, in ways I never expected back in '98, when the game had no real competition, is just as frustrating to me as I'm sure people criticizing the game is to you.

I didn't say that it's your fault if you don't like a game, but like I said, I've never bought a game, and found it to be massively far away from my informed expectations of it.

"if you buy a game and it doesn't live up to your expectations, you take it back, but really you should have researched it better, and worked out what you were buying" certainly sounds like it's nobody's fault but the buyer's. Regardless; that's great that you've never had that happen, but some people have.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

I think we're the victims (and recipients) of their success.

The PlayStation has had little to no competitors in the racing/semi-sim genre. PD's success is heavily dependent upon that. Since '98, it's basically been Gran Turismo and Gran Turismo alone. Project C.A.R.S. will defend itself well, though. I anticipate it greatly!

We keep buying their games, despite the fact that major areas of their games are lacking and still living under late 90's ideas. They've proven for 15 years that they can work their way around certain problems, create new problems, but attempt to divert our attention with other features.

 

[Tenacious D]

I'd bet... what was the number again... $100 million, that that's not true. Or which number are you creating this time?

Well, dude, you tell me how much it costs to hire a whole slew of studios from around the world to the tune of 400 employees. AND a Hollywood graphics studio. I bet that costs a few dollars, huh.

 

[SCER]

Disproportionate? To what? As Max has pointed out; GTP is a small minority in the grand scheme of GT5 owners. Uninformed? This is a website dedicated to the series; casuals would be the likely source of uninformed comments, those of us who've spent countless hours with not just GT5, but the entire series (and, almost as importantly, its competition)? Not so much. Unrealistic in what way? Rude, I'll agree, there is no need for it - which is why I've personally handed out warnings and infractions to people when they resort to petty name-calling of Kaz and co.

Disproportionate to praise. GTPlanet is the main source of commentary on GT titles, so yes, disproportionate. Yes, casuals were who I were addressing with my use of the word uninformed. I'll say it again, I'm not addressing all criticism here. Unrealistic: not taking into account system performance limitations, time limitations, ratio of general interest to difficulty in implementation. And yes, rude, and you moderators do a great job in policing on that front.

Call of Duty is the butt of a lot of jokes and, apparently (I've never played it) not a particular good game (series). Yet, it rakes in money.

Because a lot of people like it. A good game is, in essence, one that many people enjoy and spend considerable time playing. Say what you want about Call of Duty (I hate it), but it's a good game.

Fair point. Though personally, I'm so critical of the series because I want it to succeed. If I didn't care, well... why would I care if it improves at all? This is the series that cemented my interest in automobiles, so to see it stagnating in certain ways, in ways I never expected back in '98, when the game had no real competition, is just as frustrating to me as I'm sure people criticizing the game is to you.

I think that passion for the series is good, and I'm in no way trying to stamp that out.

"if you buy a game and it doesn't live up to your expectations, you take it back, but really you should have researched it better, and worked out what you were buying" certainly sounds like it's nobody's fault but the buyer's. Regardless; that's great that you've never had that happen, but some people have.

Yeah that sentence was a bit dumb I guess, but lots of people buy games they don't like and don't feel the need to go on and on about it on a forum.

I think we're the victims (and recipients) of their success.

The PlayStation has had little to no competitors in the racing/semi-sim genre. PD's success is heavily dependent upon that. Since '98, it's basically been Gran Turismo and Gran Turismo alone. Project C.A.R.S. will defend itself well, though. I anticipate it greatly!

We keep buying their games, despite the fact that major areas of their games are lacking and still living under late 90's ideas. They've proven for 15 years that they can work their way around certain problems, create new problems, but attempt to divert our attention with other features.

An interesting opinion, and one that I don't think Polyphony Digital are the victims of. They are however, the victims of a lot of unconstructive whining by many people, which is what irks me.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Well, dude, you tell me how much it costs to hire a whole slew of studios from around the world to the tune of 400 employees. AND a Hollywood graphics studio. I bet that costs a few dollars, huh.

I don't know. The difference between you and I in this situation though, is that I admit that. It sure beats making numbers up.

 

[mister dog]

It's fine to have things you'd want them to do, but it's important to appreciate them as well. From the perspective of pure self-interest, it could well make them more interested in listening to opinions. Let's face it, if their games were so frustrating and terrible and they were such awful game developers, you wouldn't be here.

Well GT6 news brought me here actually, i might even buy it as i still have my PS3... but from what i've seen so far, PD have not made much effort once again in listening to their public, and i'm afraid they just won't have bothered improving the major flaws in their games, which prevent them from being truly enjoyable.

A bit sad to see standard cars, crap engine noises, ridiculous damage (and probably the bouncing of walls that comes with it) + i bet that lame AI still being a factor anno 2013.

Maybe i'm judging a bit to soon, but i've known the way PD works the last 15 years, and it wouldn't be surprised if they missed out on these things again for GT6...

 

[mister dog]

I think we're the victims (and recipients) of their success.

The PlayStation has had little to no competitors in the racing/semi-sim genre. PD's success is heavily dependent upon that. Since '98, it's basically been Gran Turismo and Gran Turismo alone. Project C.A.R.S. will defend itself well, though. I anticipate it greatly!

We keep buying their games, despite the fact that major areas of their games are lacking and still living under late 90's ideas. They've proven for 15 years that they can work their way around certain problems, create new problems, but attempt to divert our attention with other features.

Totally agree with this, they basicly have each PS3 owner in their back pockets, because of that lack of another good racing sim game for the console.

T10 have the same luxury on the xbox, but they do seem to be focused a lot more on what the punters want for their racing games. Just wish PD would follow that example for once.

 

[FuelAirSpark]

Are PD a victim of their own success? I think they are. There were 3 Suzuka layouts in GT4: main, east, and west tracks. In GT5, only main and east were included. I don't understand why they couldn't if the main track was there. It's little things like that...

 

[MeanElf]

Totally agree with this, they basicly have each PS3 owner in their back pockets, because of that lack of another good racing sim game for the console...

Not really, okay you'd need to like rally but WRC3 proved to be a better rally driving experience than GT5. It still won't stop me from getting GT6 as I like the whole feel and experience GT gives.

I will continue to get both Black Bean and PD's titles. They both fulfill a need and can co-exist nicely. Even if PD get back on track with rally, I'll still be happy to play both games. Each dev does it differently, has made choices about what they want on the table...but that doesn't mean that one of them needs to be wrong.

Are PD a victim of their own success? I think they are. There were 3 Suzuka layouts in GT4: main, east, and west tracks. In GT5, only main and east were included. I don't understand why they couldn't if the main track was there. It's little things like that...

Not really understanding what you are saying there - PD are a victim of their own success, so they purposefully leave out a track?

 

[TokoTurismo]

Not really, okay you'd need to like rally but WRC3 proved to be a better rally driving experience than GT5. It still won't stop me from getting GT6 as I like the whole feel and experience GT gives.

I will continue to get both Black Bean and PD's titles. They both fulfill a need and can co-exist nicely. Even if PD get back on track with rally, I'll still be happy to play both games. Each dev does it differently, has made choices about what they want on the table...but that doesn't mean that one of them needs to be wrong.

Very well said. 👍