Official GTP Online Racing Discussion Thread

Just reading through, I would say currently I don't quite see the point in standardising things. For me there is a better solution.

Let's take Car regulations as an example. Instead of having an "Official Set" of car regs for certain groups of cars (GT3, LMP what have you), why not create a section in the racing leagues section called "Regulation Library" or something. That's probably a terrible name, but something along those lines.

When league creators build an equalised set of cars, they can, if they so choose, add this set to said section, with a name (eg. "WRS GT3 Regs"). This becomes a library to which league creators can choose to add such things to for other leagues to pull from. Instead of standardising, and having a single standard reg set for any particular group of cars, creators can develop their own, and then share those.

This way, creators can choose whether they want to keep the regs that they created private to their own league (they think what they have is amazing, and want exclusivity on it for the first season for example), or they can choose to open up their regs for others to use and test out. You could say in your thread like what Furinkazen has said, like "Please credit ___ if you choose to use these regs in your league".

For me that is an ideal way to have it. New series creators have a place to go should they not have the time or resources to develop a car set, they can look around in this section, to see if anyone else has developed what they are looking for. It also allows a space for people to give feedback on the regs. Could even be possible that GTPlanet has some kind of rating system in this particular part of the forum? You mentioned colour coded threads, how about somewhere where you could rate the reg set, which then shows up when your browsing it (5 star system or something?). Just throwing some ideas out there anyhow.

The only thing I think should be added first is to add times on calendars so events won't overlap

Great debates guys, this is what the thread's all about, stimulating discussion and pulling us out of our current way of seeing things. There's so many different ways of executing a successful racing series and building an environment around it which can foster growth and appeal, no one's wrong until they're proven so. What we want to do is overflow this place with ideas until we find the best solutions for all the different series organizer's and participants problems.

Feel free to add perspective from just a driver's view as well. What could makke make things easier for drivers to find series they want to race in, to feel less intimidated by taking the plunge, etc.

Oink have the best idea on the regulations by using a sort of library. Polar's day dots is a great idea for drivers who want to find a series to join in that works with their life schedules. The semester idea can work but it needs the communication of all the race series organizers on when to start their series. Also, it might be daunting for a new member on the site to start their own series if they have to follow the semester time.

Indeed, the driver's perspective is probably the most important.

EDIT: Damn double post, and I was doing so good not to do that.

gtpanoz

The semester idea can work but it needs the communication of all the race series organizers on when to start their series. Also, it might be daunting for a new member on the site to start their own series if they have to follow the semester time.

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I disagree! We simply let them know when the next date will be coming up for new seasons and they plan out their series to be ready by then. Make a series and put it under "Interest Check" status, then they wait for the next season to start. Drivers who'll be available for the next season can check it out.

One of the biggest challenges many new members face is when to start their series. I know first hand that I had no idea when I wanted to start my Fuji Challenge Series... and eventually I dropped the idea entirely because I never received much interest in the Interest Check section, despite being told to move it to the Race Series section when I thought it still needed more development. It's another reason I want those two sections (as well as the single-day events) section moved into one area, to further help develop new series.


If they were to simply make a post start their series outside of the time line, then they'd be narrowing their chances of getting a driver field to the drivers who are not participating in any events. Which gives me another idea...

• Educational Sticky for new members.

The Problem: New Members often risk making overly-complicated technical regulations and post them in text-only formats. Either one of these risk losing regular member's attention and could result in the new member having a bad experience on GTPlanet before they even got a chance to race online.
The Solution: Create a resource tool to let new (and old) members know what the most effective way in handling a series is, listing proven examples as proof.

This allows potential series organizers to develop threads and series that are attractive both to them (and their ideas) as well as to members who are used to seeing a bit more eye candy in a thread.
This resource tool could also list do's and do not's to further help them avoid implementing activities that are proven to be unattractive or ineffective in online racing.
The same resource could list current racing series, to show these members what's already out there, and possibly turning them into drivers when they find the series they wanted to make is already out there!

Though I don't have set dates because something can come up when I least expect it.

RESHIRAM5

Though I don't have set dates because something can come up when I least expect it.

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Yes, but the same is true for all of your drivers and anyone else who runs a racing series.

Silly me, I fought this was something that would be mandatory for all series .

RESHIRAM5

Silly me, I fought this was something that would be mandatory for all series .

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I meant that a date that may work for you, may not work for five of your drivers, or even one of your drivers. Are you going to re-schedule just for them? Or will they be forced to miss a round?

Thanks for inviting me to the discussion. As a part of the SNAIL club/league I have been able to both take part in a top notch league and also see just how much work goes in to running one. I truly hope that GT6 will make this work easier. But I would also love to see GTplanet make the job easier.

There are a few things that have popped in to my head. In SNAIL there are 5 divisions. This allows almost everyone to fit in to a division that puts them head to head with others of similar speed. This makes for great racing. In order to place people in a division to start everyone must run a time trial.

What if there was a master time trial that all leagues used. This would allow people to have an idea of where they would fit in. For instance if I am a D4 racer and if a series is made up of mostly D1 guys I would have an idea about how I would compare and may want to look for a different series with guys a bit slower.

Second is to try to group people into regions. While these could be geographically based I think they would be more time based. This would allow people to find people that race at a similar time.

How could this work? We'll say there was a drivers roster on GTplanet. It could look like this

1. Jobyone - D4 - R4
2. Some Alien - D1 -R4
3. Some Mortal - D3 - R4

So I could see that all three of these guys are in my region but only Some Mortal is likely to be a similar speed as I am. So he would be a good person to reach out to.

Now if we also had a series lineup on GTplanet it could list the days the league runs, the region (time) it runs and the average division of the racers. This could look like

1. Performance Cap - Monday - R4 - D2
2. Academy Practice - Wed/Sat - R3 - D1
3. Some series - Saturday - R4 - D4

I could see that Some Series might be a good fit for me. It is my region and largely made up of people of a similar speed.

I am not sure how this would work logistically but it might help people more easily find a good series that they could join.

jobyone

*A very good suggestion*

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Now... I could see the WRS Time Trial becoming a system used, since it's basically what you described, though it could be opened up so members don't have to change their PSN's in order to participate (have a pardon for members who just want to race online and not do WRS events for example).

But I agree that, if an organizer wanted, there could (and should) be a system available to performance cap their competitors, so newer drivers can race against others.

Yeah, I think that if WRS' qualifier method evolved to make for quicker turn arounds and GT6 gave us the ability to set up in-game name tags separate from PSN, WRS could easily cover everyone in the board that wants to race.

If that's not possible, coming up with an alternate benchmark would be very useful indeed, especially considering there'll be quicker and easier methods to do it by with the upcoming online time trial features.

Evening Snaeper thank you for the invitation,

I’m very pleased to see that I’m not the only one thinking of the evaluation of the race quality along with participation of the series produced and maintained within the GT Planet. The only three series that have made a large foot print within the GTP community are the WRS Time Trails, WRS Race series now handled by 3D3 racing and PURE which I have worked with before to have the “World GT Challenge” which is now under the title of “GTP TUDOR United Sports Car Championship” and one other series under their racing body, also founded a great relationship with the founding members. (Sorry I haven’t been in contact) These three series and evolved into a pro caliber racing division within their own right and that was due to the time and effort that the people evolved took to make it happen. With the evaluation of the Gran Turismo title, GT Planet it’s time to evolve the racing structure as a whole within the GTP community. Though this may or may not be a problem due to the two sided coin of the matter the sides of the casual player and the core player.

With that in sight it comes down to series development, car performance and series’ ruling. My objective over look of the differences of the casual to core player is simple, (Casual having a good time, bettering their skills but still having a good time, Core looking to better their skills, striving to be a pro driver or a Nissan Works driver) Either or the both needs to be satisfied in a way not to disturb anything, finding a way may be difficult or easy pending on the community. My insight on handling this matter is two have a system to differ the casual from the core series to make it easier or seamless for members to find what they want. The stipulations between the two will be great; the core sires must follow the current or future GT Planet On-Line race ruling, current points system and current performance regulations as in power of the motor. Core series cars if race car based and class shouldn't have any type of modifications to the motor to obtain extra power or torque or otherwise cleared to fit within a class, this will allow drivers and teams to partake in more than one series without having a multitude of the same car. Touring car based series (Street car based) operating in or within the GTP OLR should follow performance regulations to their real world counter parts that the series in mind is structured after or implementing. Casual series should be free to do as they please to satisfy the series creator and its drivers.

Regimented Racing "Semesters" will be a great foundation for the casual and core series as long those series are in a division bracket due to the mass amount of upcoming series and as you stated “Mass influx of GT3 series” The brackets should reduce the amount of confusion along with having the series having a full field. The core series must follow a detailed regiment so there will be now trouble keeping track of points and events, casual series must also follow a detailed regiment with little leeway along with structuring. Having a week period would be great due to how the future real racing bodies are functioning that members are trying to mimic, follow from the pass or doing what they feel.

With the influx of new driver, new members to GTP along with the new drivers to the series that are held on GTP there must be a feeder series for both sides, just for the sack of not having any trouble in series or on the track within the casual or core series along with an evaluation. I would share some of my thoughts on the evaluation, but I’ll save those for another time due to I must be at work at 7am est. time and I would like to see what others may add or bring to light.

Snaeper

I meant that a date that may work for you, may not work for five of your drivers, or even one of your drivers. Are you going to re-schedule just for them? Or will they be forced to miss a round?

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I just delay it to next week if I can't make it (I can't really trust other people to host my races )

I think we need a better way of organising the threads for racing series.

Here are a few of problems and solutions

ProblemIt is very difficult as a series organiser to keep all of the information needed in an orderly fashion. Some threads end up having all of the required info(e.g. Car regs, driver lists, series regs etc) spread across the thread, this makes it difficult for the series organiser to edit and organise the info and it makes it difficult for potential racers to find and interpret all of the relevant info.
Solution-Have a standard racing series thread layout, this would mean that all series threads would have the same type of info in the same places, this would eliminate the problem above.

Problem-Not everyone has the time to regularly check the thread for the series they are involved in, this means that some racers can miss out on important info and updates regarding the series.
Solution-Have an easier way to notify racers of updates to the series, such as a feature to send email notifications regarding important updates and changes.

Problem-It can be difficult to keep a record of championship points, standings and penalties. Some use google documents, others post the information in the thread. Either way, it can get very confusing and time consuming for series organisers and racers.
Solution-Create some sort or table system(similar to excel) that can be used in the opening post of a series. This would mean that all of the point tables, standings and penalties will be in one location, this gets rid of the need for annoying hyperlinks or messy typed up points tables.

I will post more ideas when I come up with them, I think the first one is probably the best of the three and would save a lot of stress in regards to editing and creating the opening post for a series

RESHIRAM5

I just delay it to next week if I can't make it (I can't really trust other people to host my races )

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Okay, I'm afraid you're still not understanding my point.

You schedule your racing series (let's pretend it's five weeks) around a time that works for you.

But one of your drivers has a real life conflict with one of those weeks. Do you reschedule for him? If not, why wouldn't you? You have no problem rescheduling it for yourself, but you wouldn't for one of your participants?

If you did the 5-week system, starting at a time that works for you, then you know that all of your drivers most likely know they'll be available too, since they wouldn't be starting if they knew of an impending conflict. There's no special treatment for you or for anyone else and the series progresses fairly.

I don't see how it would be fair for an organizer to postpone an event just for him but not share the same hospitality for one of his participants.

Zuel

Evening Snaeper thank you for the invitation

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Glad to have you, and thank you for sharing your thoughts!

mij2003

I think we need a better way of organising the threads for racing series.

Here are a few of problems and solutions

ProblemIt is very difficult as a series organiser to keep all of the information needed in an orderly fashion. Some threads end up having all of the required info(e.g. Car regs, driver lists, series regs etc) spread across the thread, this makes it difficult for the series organiser to edit and organise the info and it makes it difficult for potential racers to find and interpret all of the relevant info.
Solution-Have a standard racing series thread layout, this would mean that all series threads would have the same type of info in the same places, this would eliminate the problem above.

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This was something I was thinking of too. My only quib would be that it might breed too much familiarity into a thread. I think this could be adapted into the idea of having a resource for information on creating a series, instructing them on how to make a clean thread.

Let the organizer add his or her own personal touches, but instruct them on the good practices of making a thread (putting all of the information neatly into the OP, divided by banners, having good pictures, everything laid out neatly, etc). I do agree though, that having some kind of suggested template for members would be ideal.

Problem-Not everyone has the time to regularly check the thread for the series they are involved in, this means that some racers can miss out on important info and updates regarding the series.
Solution-Have an easier way to notify racers of updates to the series, such as a feature to send email notifications regarding important updates and changes.

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Would this be a suggestion for a feature to accompany GTPlanet? Or would this be a good practice for all organizers to use by collecting their participants e-mails and having them on hand? It's a good idea, though.

Problem-It can be difficult to keep a record of championship points, standings and penalties. Some use google documents, others post the information in the thread. Either way, it can get very confusing and time consuming for series organisers and racers.
Solution-Create some sort or table system(similar to excel) that can be used in the opening post of a series. This would mean that all of the point tables, standings and penalties will be in one location, this gets rid of the need for annoying hyperlinks or messy typed up points tables.

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That would certainly be nice. As a roving spectator, I do enjoy looking in on a series and seeing where everyone stands in the championship race.

Furinkazen

We already had that effectively. A bit of research and you could see say, Scott, Memto, and Dave's WEC had best specs for LMPs and GTs. If you just look around, garner peoples feedback you can make a judgement for yourself. My fear is making some specs "mandatory" essentially.

@Snaeper. It's not a good idea. If a series is good it gets participants regardless. Mandating semesters is being restrictive, when part of the success of a racing series is being flexible with your planning.

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From a balancing point of view it is up to the people running the series. However if there were pre made "templates" for general balancing of a series that would be great. A quick off the shelf series could sometimes be just what is required. If there is a locked thread or section dedicated to that it could be clear, concise and useful.

Merging all series stuff and spot races together would be great. Better more seamless tie in with the calendar (systematically forcing all events to use a better visibility calendar) would also improve things both for series creators and participants. Times of racing slots is something which can sometimes be the first thing to bring people together.

Could a series setup template/wizard be put together that allows series creators to choose from all options available within GT6? This would include room options, series options, dates, tracks, points, cars, picture links etc. Then all series could be shown in a standardised way within the first post of a thread. Might be a big long term job to set up but it could make things much clearer for participants.

Hello all, I would like to wager my opinion in this argument. First of all, this is a great idea snaeper. Being a part of ITCC and knowing that next season is scheduled for 20 rounds this could work very well if all racing series owners used this it could be a great idea. Also I think series creators should think out side the box. The way things are going this could become a great era for online racing on gtplanet. Goodbye and good luck in all racing endeavours all.

I think have extremely long seasons like that only alienates new drivers. Instead of one super long championship isn't it more desirable to have a few within the same time span? Better chance at attracting new blood, people that have had bad luck get a fresh start, new formats can be tried, organizer fatigue is substantially reduced, etc. etc. I could go on and on.

Definitely not attacking the idea, just wondering what the reasoning is, truly just curious! If it works well though I can definitely imagine it being a fun event!

I agree, by no means do I think a 20 round schedule couldn't work, but from a driver's standpoint, why would I commit to half a year's worth of racing? Especially if there wasn't any incentive to finish and it became clear that I wouldn't be in contention of finishing well halfway through the season?

I'm sure plenty of people feel differently, but what about someone who's new and wants to race in ITCC but can't commit to 5-7 months of racing? That's where I'm making my suggestions, to open GTPlanet up to the new members, the kind of people who came here after GT5 and went to various other sections of the site instead of the Online Racing section. As well as members like me. I don't know what my schedule is until the week before it's posted (the joys of working in a restaurant), so I may be available for a month or so, but if two people quit/are fired and the two new hires replace them are college girls who request everything off, then my schedule will most likely change for good for another 3 months, and now I wait for another series to start up that fits my new schedule.

Series like FMSC, BTCC, TOCA and others are good to have at the top, though. They have the reputation to pull in fields of drivers for all of their rounds. But I don't want a 20 round schedule to be seen as the way to go for a new member's series in order for it to be successful. I want to try to encourage a variety of lengths and types of racing for everyone to participate in.

I think wardez, but I'm not series director is to give people a chance even if they miss a couple rounds they are still a chance and that there is a wide variety of tracks.

There are some really good ideas here ladies and gentlemen. Expanding on above ideas further, if all series were submitted to a central database and/or Google spreadsheet then people could use that as a filter to see what series were currently running.

Database accessed through Google docs? Series creators submit series to the database and once accepted by site admin (just to filter junk submissions) they are available in the master document/database for participants to browse.

GTP already has a calendar schedule people can use to see events. Also, if it is all being grouped together (potentially) with merger of Interest Checks and Spot Races, it should be easier to see everything full stop.

It would be nice to see an update on the Calendar though, so it could be featured more prominently.

Heck, I didn't even know it existed until I had a chat with Wardez and he mentioned it off hand. I clicked around and went "Whoa, there's a calendar here!"

I haven't clicked on it since.

Snaeper

It would be nice to see an update on the Calendar though, so it could be featured more prominently.

Heck, I didn't even know it existed until I had a chat with Wardez and he mentioned it off hand. I clicked around and went "Whoa, there's a calendar here!"

I haven't clicked on it since.

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Agreed... I would use it more... but I forget it's there

Well, I'm including a system used in other series (point drop system) that'll even the odds for people who can't make it to one race, so that might help.

I'm in charge of keeping it steady and keeping the race clean. If I'm not there how can I watch the other racers to see if they are dirty or clean. Relying on someone else to organize is an option but it is just that, I can't really trust anyone .

Not everyone will make it to every race, if I delayed a GGT race for just one person who didn't make it, first season wouldn't of been close to being done.

RESHIRAM5

Well, I'm including a system used in other series (point drop system) that'll even the odds for people who can't make it to one race, so that might help.

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I do that in my sportscar series as well 👍

RESHIRAM5

I'm in charge of keeping it steady and keeping the race clean. If I'm not there how can I watch the other racers to see if they are dirty or clean. Relying on someone else to organize is an option but it is just that, I can't really trust anyone .

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In ToCA we have a panel of Stewards, anyone can PM them and within 72 hours they will have decided and final results are posted by the following tuesday.

RESHIRAM5

Not everyone will make it to every race, if I delayed a GGT race for just one person who didn't make it, first season wouldn't of been close to being done.

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Agreed.

Hi all

I run the WEC along with TDZ, also run the feeder series for the WEC and the N24.

The issue i have had is the social side of things on GTP, we have moved alot of our things over to facebook groups as we find it creates more of a social environment than GTP can offer as it is hard to keep up with the posts.

It would be great be able to search for categories of series, so say by car class used, multi class, single spec class, etc. Something that would help narrow down what drivers are looking for.

The other thing i would like to see is more of an inviting layout with series information etc, so that race organisers can advertise the series alot more clear than now.

The next season of the WEC will be 7 months long with 14 rounds with 48 drivers, we have the following to pull it off due to the specs we run and the rules and regs put in place (just like any successful series) but the GTP side of things is just for regulation and to keep the non facebook members in the loop.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Jordan has some nice plans for expanding on a better calendar system.

But as far as a series database goes, I definitely have that in mind as a project. I wanted to set up a simple doc for people submit their series data to. It would have a few prerequisites in order to be eligible for inclusion (still tbd), stuff like minimum number of races at a certain distance or format, and participation levels. We could use this to plot out clear and concise census-like data on what's popular. What works, what doesn't, with actual evidence to back it up with. We can totally get scientific .