Official GTP Online Racing Discussion Thread

[memto89]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Jordan has some nice plans for expanding on a better calendar system.

But as far as a series database goes, I definitely have that in mind as a project. I wanted to set up a simple doc for people submit their series data to. It would have a few prerequisites in order to be eligible for inclusion (still tbd), stuff like minimum number of races at a certain distance or format, and participation levels. We could use this to plot out clear and concise census-like data on what's popular. What works, what doesn't, with actual evidence to back it up with. We can totally get scientific .

I would be happy to supply data logging of all the series I run. TBH i think it should be mandatory as a series organiser to supply the information about the series.

 

[Wardez]

For sure, the more the better, it'd be such a great tool for us over time. Help people avoid stagnation and old mistakes.

btw, is the new season of WEC still gonna be GT5?

 

[memto89]

For sure, the more the better, it'd be such a great tool for us over time. Help people avoid stagnation and old mistakes. btw, is the new season of WEC still gonna be GT5?

Nah it will be gt6 we have it starting in March so it doesn't interfere with the n24

 

[Furinkazen]

I am planning on restarting TOCA and WSC mid January.

 

[R0ssingt0n]

Forgive me for being pessimistic but I just can't see things working out well with so many rules and regulations attached.

 

[PAPPACLART]

Great that this has been brought up, and thanks for the invite to take part in the discussion.


Now for GT6 things are likely to change, I wil ltry and keep this as short as possible but if I was tasked with coming up with a workable structure for organized online racing here on GTP it would read something like the below:



I would first start with a time trial, all GTP members that wish to take part in organised online racing would have to submit a Qualifying time in order to take part in any sanctioned GTP online racing.

This time trial would determine where and who you race against. Much like how the existing GTP divisions are organized

Once that was done, I would create enough PSN accounts to host both casual racing and official events out of.

Let's say for the sake of this example that we had 300 times submitted for this GTP Time Trial.


Based on 300 submissions, I would create a PSN accounts for a private Gran Turismo lounge structure as follows. There is a limit to how many friends a single PSN account can have which is 100, so the below would take place.

100 members would add/send friend requests to the below PSN Accounts/lounges only.
GTP_Lounge1_A (A place for Div 1 racing)
GTP_Lounge2_A (A place for Div 2 racing)
GTP_Lounge3_A (A place for Div 3 racing)
GTP_TestNTune_A (A place for testing and tuning)
GTP_Casual_A (A place for mixed division casual racing)

100 members would add themselves to the below lounges only
GTP_Lounge1_B
GTP_Lounge2_B
GTP_Lounge3_B
GTP_TestNTune_B
GTP_Casual_B


100 members would add themselves to the below lounges only
GTP_Lounge1_C
GTP_Lounge2_C
GTP_Lounge3_C
GTP_TestNTune_C
GTP_Casual_C


So we have 300 members split into 3 groups of 100. Within each group of 100 we run 3 divisions like this

D1 33 members
D2 33 members
D3 34 members.


So in total
D1 99 members
D2 99 members
D3 102 members.


The divisions are determined by the members qualifying time.

The created PSN accounts are not real people but any member added to any of the PSN accounts can access the GT5 lounges of these accounts even if the account owner is not online and playing GT.

Admins are assigned to manage the members on each account. Managing members would include managing friend requests, removing inactive/unreliable, or members that race poorly etc If you are added to the accounts you have access to 99 other guys to race with.

You earn your place on a lounge by submitting the qualifying time which guarantees access to the lounges for a set period of time. (to be determined by the Admins)

This access could be determined by how active or reliable your are, or how clean and good of a racer you are, but the primary focus to earn and keep your place (thus access) would be to be a clean, active and reliable racer.

Each admin who is responsible for the 100 racers/members on each account would be responsible for organizing events for the 100 guys he looks after on his accounts as well as ensuring that all members are clean and active.


Events would be organized on a season basis. As an example this season could run for 16 weeks, with say 5-6 events, with events ran twice a week. Each event would run over multiple divisions with a promotion and relegation structure within each group of 100 racers.

The season and its events would be designed and announced 1 month before the start of each new season, showing all events, specs, tracks and dates etc


As well as admin created race classes for specific championships, there would also be some official car class created by Admin. All members added to all of the GTP accounts would need to familiarize themselves with these car classes, both for easy and quick casual racing and for events that use these classes.

Car class Example (Clubman Class cars using road cars)

Class K (Very light weight low power)
Class C (Light weight low power)
Class B (medium weight medium power)
Class A (medium weigh high power)

Also one make and PP classes etc

Each car class would be designed to encourage close racing and variety and with a step up from each class in terms of performance etc


Additionally, to make things interesting, each Admin who runs each group would keep statistics over the course of each season. something like this GBRC STATS


The above is a simple example of how to achieve an organised online racing structure.

I already have a system exactly like the above that has been running now for 3 years. Sure it is not as big but the system scales very well. Sure the Lounge creation may no longer be required as GT6 with the possibility of club creation may do away with the need to be PSN friends with somebody in order to race privately in their lounge.


After lots of thought and experience running online events the above system is the best I have come up with and has a proven track record of success

 

[memto89]

We are introducing a similar system into the wec next season, but since it is a team event then we are not excluding drivers 'into they can only run with people as good as them' but rather having teams built up by the same way that fia do their driver pairings, so you have gold - 3 silver - 2 and bronze -1 drivers and teams are built up of 6 points
So basically everyone will be running at the same level and everyone gets a chance to win instead of a run away team.

I wouldn't feel right saying to someone that they can't race because they are not good enough, of they have the passion and the drive then they should be allowed to develop their skills, the wec has seen some huge improvements in driving from people since they started due to the development programme

 

[Furinkazen]

Great that this has been brought up, and thanks for the invite to take part in the discussion.


Now for GT6 things are likely to change, I wil ltry and keep this as short as possible but if I was tasked with coming up with a workable structure for organized online racing here on GTP it would read something like the below:



I would first start with a time trial, all GTP members that wish to take part in organised online racing would have to submit a Qualifying time in order to take part in any sanctioned GTP online racing.

This time trial would determine where and who you race against. Much like how the existing GTP divisions are organized

Once that was done, I would create enough PSN accounts to host both casual racing and official events out of.

Let's say for the sake of this example that we had 300 times submitted for this GTP Time Trial.


Based on 300 submissions, I would create a PSN accounts for a private Gran Turismo lounge structure as follows. There is a limit to how many friends a single PSN account can have which is 100, so the below would take place.

100 members would add/send friend requests to the below PSN Accounts/lounges only.
GTP_Lounge1_A (A place for Div 1 racing)
GTP_Lounge2_A (A place for Div 2 racing)
GTP_Lounge3_A (A place for Div 3 racing)
GTP_TestNTune_A (A place for testing and tuning)
GTP_Casual_A (A place for mixed division casual racing)

100 members would add themselves to the below lounges only
GTP_Lounge1_B
GTP_Lounge2_B
GTP_Lounge3_B
GTP_TestNTune_B
GTP_Casual_B


100 members would add themselves to the below lounges only
GTP_Lounge1_C
GTP_Lounge2_C
GTP_Lounge3_C
GTP_TestNTune_C
GTP_Casual_C


So we have 300 members split into 3 groups of 100. Within each group of 100 we run 3 divisions like this

D1 33 members
D2 33 members
D3 34 members.


So in total
D1 99 members
D2 99 members
D3 102 members.


The divisions are determined by the members qualifying time.

The created PSN accounts are not real people but any member added to any of the PSN accounts can access the GT5 lounges of these accounts even if the account owner is not online and playing GT.

Admins are assigned to manage the members on each account. Managing members would include managing friend requests, removing inactive/unreliable, or members that race poorly etc If you are added to the accounts you have access to 99 other guys to race with.

You earn your place on a lounge by submitting the qualifying time which guarantees access to the lounges for a set period of time. (to be determined by the Admins)

This access could be determined by how active or reliable your are, or how clean and good of a racer you are, but the primary focus to earn and keep your place (thus access) would be to be a clean, active and reliable racer.

Each admin who is responsible for the 100 racers/members on each account would be responsible for organizing events for the 100 guys he looks after on his accounts as well as ensuring that all members are clean and active.


Events would be organized on a season basis. As an example this season could run for 16 weeks, with say 5-6 events, with events ran twice a week. Each event would run over multiple divisions with a promotion and relegation structure within each group of 100 racers.

The season and its events would be designed and announced 1 month before the start of each new season, showing all events, specs, tracks and dates etc


As well as admin created race classes for specific championships, there would also be some official car class created by Admin. All members added to all of the GTP accounts would need to familiarize themselves with these car classes, both for easy and quick casual racing and for events that use these classes.

Car class Example (Clubman Class cars using road cars)

Class K (Very light weight low power)
Class C (Light way low power)
Class B (medium weight medium power)
Class A (medium weigh high power)

Also one make and PP classes etc

Each car class would be designed to encourage close racing and variety and with a step up from each class in terms of performance etc


Additionally, to make things interesting, each Admin who runs each group would keep statistics over the course of each season. something like this GBRC STATS


The above is a simple example of how to achieve an organised online racing structure.

I already have a system exactly like the above that has been running now for 3 years. Sure it is not as big but the system scales very well. Sure the Lounge creation may no longer be required as GT6 with the possibility of club creation may do away with the need to be PSN friends with somebody in order to race privately in their lounge.


After lots of thought and experience running online events the above system is the best I have come up with and has a proven track record of success

Grossly over complicated (at least for me). Not everyone wants to go through all this to race. We already have the WRS registry for GTP_ tag members. Larger clubs like PURE use a registry system. For example, I have across the bored, most active drivers usually around 45ish. In my case people who absent unexplained for more than three weeks are ejected from the championship, and anyone who's not logged in on PSN for a long time is deleted.

Whilst the above may work for you Pappaclart, its simply too big and time consuming, and over the top regimented for every racer to take part in.

Whilst we've got some good ideas from some in this thread, it's a case really of "If it's not broke, don't fix it".

GTP Racing was not broke last time I checked.

@Memto, for a championship, one series, thats manageable.

 

[memto89]

Whilst we've got some good ideas from some in this thread, it's a case really of "If it's not broke, don't fix it".

GTP Racing was not broke last time I checked.

IDK we have had more of a response from members and more involvement since we started using facebook, I wouldnt go so far as its broken but I do think an overhaul is needed

@Memto, for a championship, one series, thats manageable.

This is true, it only works for team championships and not just single driver events

 

[V8-Johnboy]

Forgive me for being pessimistic but I just can't see things working out well with so many rules and regulations attached.

I cant help feel the same That said its human nature i guess to be a little scared of change especially something that feels so drastic. If its change for the better then great baby steps would be nice though But like you Furi last time i checked GTP online racing seemed fine. The struggles now are only to be expected, its a credit to the community the games stretched as long as it has imo.👍

 

[TDZdave]

Is this thread suggesting a change to where we can only run series in time slots that aren't being used? ones that may not be convenient for anyone? If that is the case then I rather take my league to another forum as I see the moderator favoring their friends and making it difficult for others to even bother trying, the site does need updating, but a structure like that would see more people leave then anything,

 

[Carbonox]

I cant help feel the same That said its human nature i guess to be a little scared of change especially something that feels so drastic. If its change for the better then great baby steps would be nice though But like you Furi last time i checked GTP online racing seemed fine. The struggles now are only to be expected, its a credit to the community the games stretched as long as it has imo.👍

I think you can still run BST outside the system just fine, I know for sure that I would do that if I was in charge, no need to become this organized if we've managed things this well in the past. 👍

 

[PAPPACLART]

Grossly over complicated (at least for me). Not everyone wants to go through all this to race. We already have the WRS registry for GTP_ tag members. Larger clubs like PURE use a registry system. For example, I have across the bored, most active drivers usually around 45ish. In my case people who absent unexplained for more than three weeks are ejected from the championship, and anyone who's not logged in on PSN for a long time is deleted.

Whilst the above may work for you Pappaclart, its simply too big and time consuming, and over the top regimented for every racer to take part in.

Whilst we've got some good ideas from some in this thread, it's a case really of "If it's not broke, don't fix it".

GTP Racing was not broke last time I checked.

@Memto, for a championship, one series, thats manageable.

At first glances it does seem complicated but it is very simple. I think the perspective of it by many as being over complicated has put people off but it has worked well not just for me but for 100s of GBRC members that have raced with us over the years, and has kept us racing together.


You only ever add/send FR to 5 PSN accounts but can race with 99 other guys who are also added to those accounts. The whole reason why I suggested 5 accounts to add is simply because only 16 can fit in a lobby at any one time. Sure with 100 active racers you may not need 5 PSN account, perhaps 2 or 3 but I used that 5 as an example as it worked for us.

How it stands now, Furinkazen, lets just say I add you as a friend, I go race with you in your private lounge, I meet your PSN GT5 friends. I have some awesome racing. This takes place for several weeks and I am having the time of my life. One night I go to play GT5 and you are not online. Your friend turbonato is hosting some racing in his private lounge, and all of your guys are in his lounge racing. I can't go race with your friends as I can not access turbonato's lounge because I am not his friend on PSN. to Access that lounge I have to FR Turbo so I can access the racing and so on.

Private online racing often moves from one private lounge to the other, really depends who is online, first, and access to that said private lounge is only possible if I am friends with the person whose private lounge the racing is taking part in etc. What ends up happening is that I have to keep adding/sending FR's to different people to follow where the private racing is taking place, and if I want my friends to be able to race with your friends in a private lounge then they potentially have to be friends with all of your friends.!! its just a really dumb way to do things.


A simply way.

I create GTP_Casual lounge


Me PAPPCLART add myself as a friend of this lounge. All of my friends and all of your friends send a FR to GTP_Casual. All of Turbonato's friends send a FR to GTP_causal and so on.

In time we have 100 people added to that account all with access to that private lounge.

Now I turn on my PS3 and want some online racing, I log in as PAPPCLART, I go straight to GTP_Casual's lounge. You join and turbo does and any one of the other 97 people added to that lounge can join and race without the need for everyone being friends with each other.

GTP_Casual account never has to be online so that all can join its GT5 lounge.

It is very simple, and now you have a private place to race, accessible 24 hours a day, with 99 other good, clean and active racers who all have access to that lounge.

In theory all you need is one PSN/lounge, I only suggest 5 so that you can manage a group easily when doing divisional races etc.

No one member has to createt a new PSN, like you do with GTP tags, you just send a FR to 1 or several accounts that act as a private place to race. Simple :-)


EDIT

If 30 different guys are hosting events on GTP, is not not silly for me and everyone else to have to add each of those 30 guys as friends so that I can race in their lounges in their events, when all events can take place out of the one single and identifiable PSN lounge which is called GTP_casual? Or what ever you want to call it?

 

[Furinkazen]

Well thats your fault for not having him added.... and you can race in someone elses lounge even if they are not online. Or host a random lobby and boot out randoms.

As long as my racers have me on friends list, they can race. Simple as.

 

[TDZdave]

this system hasn't actually worked for more then a year anyway, people get bored, new games come out and new real life challenges arise, so the GTP lobby system wont work, who will bother sending new fr's continually or having 58 spots taken up on their friends list for lobbies,

 

[V8-Johnboy]

I think you can still run BST outside the system just fine, I know for sure that I would do that if I was in charge, no need to become this organized if we've managed things this well in the past. 👍

I was rather skirting around the edges thanks Carb:-D

 

[hasslemoff]

• Regimented Racing "Semesters"

The Problem: Racing Series start and end erratically, often with weeks in between events, causing a series to stretch to almost 6 months long or more, when it could be done in half that time. This is unattractive to members who may have turbulent schedules as it's difficult for anyone to guess that they'll be available at the date and time for the next few months.
The Solution: Universal start and end dates for every and all participating series, with two lengths available: 5-weeks and 10-weeks.

Regimented dont like that word lol.

Its up to the person who makes the series, if they want to run a series over a year or a week. No one can 100% commit to a full series really, real life tends to get in the way.
You cant regiment how people want to run there series, you have to allow freedom so that they are variable race series not running the same sort of formula.
Me personnaly cannot commit till around a week before a race, if I know I can make a race ill join if there is room. Points and tables dont bother me, I only race because I enjoy it, coming last or first couldnt care less.

This ensures the driver pool is active, and gives everyone a fair chance at collecting a grid of drivers for their series, it also gives plenty of time for members to create series. Individual events would be given emphasis in the in-between weeks, preferably by members looking to test rules and car combinations for a full series.

No one should expect full grids or multiple rooms on starting a new series, it takes time, if the series produces good clean, fun racing and is ran well the drivers will come. People looking at starting a new series should have a little look around and see what time and specs other series are running, a little research goes a long way. And using the calendar .

• Uniform car regulations

The Problem(?): Multiple series use similar cars but with different regulations.
The Solution: I don't have one! But I think there needs to be one! Volunteer group, maybe? Open track days with community assistance? Whatever it takes to build a universally agreed-upon set of regulations for multiple cars and car types.

Different regulations for different series is good, why would you want to run the exact same specs in half dozen series ?
Again it produces variable series with a difference that attracts more people. More choice = more overall interest.

Update:
Oink's Suggestion
JohnScoonBeard's thoughts

• Merge the Interest Check, Racing Series and Single Event Section into one area and distinguish them with colored titles.

The Problem: The Interest Check and Single Event section only get a small amount of attention
The Solution: It could serve to benefit the two, as well as the Racing section, by integrating all three of them together, and adding the title system that's seen in gtplanet's motorsport section to distinguish between them. Additional titles could distinguish when a series is in registration, in progress, or complete, with the possibility of others.

I personally wouldnt like to see the interest and spot race threads merging with the racing series thread.

Main reason, come January next year you will have a fair few "anyone interested in so & so racing series" and Join now "Nurb X2012 room open".
It will make it hard to find a racing series going through the pages and could be daunting for the new people who are looking.

Keep the sub forums at the top and add the spot races on there.


Calendar
If the calendar was updated and used regulary by racing series you would be able to find one that suited your time and taste.
A one touch sticky either the calendar or doc of some sort would make a huge difference if people kept on top of it and added there series time and date regulary to it.

Forgive me for being pessimistic but I just can't see things working out well with so many rules and regulations attached.

I cant help feel the same That said its human nature i guess to be a little scared of change especially something that feels so drastic. If its change for the better then great baby steps would be nice though But like you Furi last time i checked GTP online racing seemed fine. The struggles now are only to be expected, its a credit to the community the games stretched as long as it has imo.👍

👍 Bolded part.

 

[Furinkazen]

Agreed 100%. When I started ToCA and WSC, my two premier series, I had 6-10 car entries for first two seasons or so. Then regularly started getting 13-16, to the point with ToCA that I had to introduce a qualifying system to support 28 entrants.

Hasslemoff exemplifies the typical racer who signs on GTP just for a race, for a laugh, for the hell of it.

 

[snowgt]

Lots of creative suggestions I'm reading here. Here's what I think so far:

• The "semester"-idea clearly has some merit, because it would allow to seamlessly change from one series to the next.
• The "semester"-concept on the other hand has the problem that you would have to have 5 weeks off between recurring racing-series between season n and season n+1.
• If you can "book", say, a 10-week schedule, and then only use 7 and use the first week for a test-day or something similar, that could work. Nobody would be forced to actually use only 5 or 10-week schedules, right?
• A new and improved racing calendar would be very useful. You should be able to look for a racing series for a certain day of the week, and a time-frame (and maybe a semester-slot) you have at your disposal. Would save you from clicking through endless lists of series that run in another time-zone.
• I think that a repository for Balance-of-Performance regulations could also be very useful. If you're planning to host a series yourself, you could take these as a starting point and adapt where needed or use them as is. Some of those BoP's could be "approved by GTP-WRS" (or some other "official" entity, PURE, etc., sort of like a stamp of approval) as being thoroughly tested and providing a balanced field of cars.
• We don't know yet what GT6 will bring in terms of regulation settings for online racing series. The greatest thing of all would be to be able to save a whole BoP for an event and to share that with other users. I know, one can dream.

 

[polarbear345]

I am strongly against the time trial stuff.

Personally, I like series that have fast people, medium people, and slow people. Much more welcoming when a new person signs up and they have a couple people at their pace, with people that are faster so they have something to try for.

For the OP stuff, maybe have a checklist of things to put in it?

 

[Jawehawk]

Cheers for the invite Snaeper. Great initiative.

I've read through the majority of the thread, and have a few notes myself.

Personally, I don't believe it's a problem that different series that are using the same cars, are using different regulations. If anything, I consider it a good thing. I do, however, think it's a very good idea to have a thread with suggestions for regulations and the like.

About "semesters" or whatever you want to call them, I don't think much can be done there. If a series regular or myself can't make a certain race date, I'll see what can be done about re-scheduling. But overall, I expect everyone to be able to attend every race, as the dates and times are clear from the get go. It would be very nice if we were able to schedule things so that different race series didn't overlap each other. I'd diffinately be up for helping in achieving that. I'll admit I've never used the race calendar, as I always forget about it. Perhaps moving it to the yellow box in the upper right corner would help? Or maybe It would make it worse .

I also have to strongly disagree about the whole time trial thing. Last thing I think we should do is seperate people into "classes". If some organisers want to narrow down their drivers to a specific skill level, that's completely fine. I prefere having different skill levels. In my opinion, racing with people who are faster than yourself, makes you better. At least that's my experience from always having always having races with people who were faster than myself.

It also makes the occasional victory much sweeter .


A single suggestion of my own.

2: How about having a thread listing all the different racing series into catagories? I'm confident that we'll see a huge increase in threads on the Racing Series board once GT6 comes out, which results in users having to go through several pages of threads, while perhaps looking for a specific type of series. This is made even more daunting by the fact that not all thread names give a clear discription of what kind of races are being run.

Having a single thread stickied at the top, dedicated to grouping the individual series's into catagories, results in a fast and easy way to get an overview of the current types of race series being held. This of course requires someone who's willing to spend time inserting all the info into the OP. He/she will get the info and link from the different race organisers, either by PM or by the organisers posting in the thread.

Actually, I probably wouldn't mind being responsible for this, if the idea is approved.

Simplified example of the thread OP.

GT3:

Super Awesome GT3 series - Link - Race date start/end
Even more super awesome GT3 series - Link - Race date start/end
Insert generic GT3 series name here - Link - Race date start/end

GT300:

Japanese GT300 season 2014 - Link - host name - Race date start/end

GT500:

Japanese GT500 season 2014 - Link - host name - Race date start/end

Stock normal road car Racing Series:

Race series name - Link - host name - Race date start/end

Tuned normal road car Racing Series:

Race series name - Link - host name - Race date start/end

Stock sport/supercar Racing Series:

Race series name - Link - host name - Race date start/end

Horrible idea?

 

[Furinkazen]

But not every series can fit into that category right? If I want to do a race series for Jay Leno Tank Cars, where do I put that? Though the concept in itself is theoretically workable..

 

[oink83]

A single suggestion of my own.

I think that's a reasonable idea. As you pointed out, someone would have to be responsible for taking details. When a new series is born, the owner would have to construct the details, send a pm or post or whatever to the manager of the thread, and then it would need to be edited it. Could end up being alot of work for said manager, especially when you consider series' might chop and change their dates so edits would be required thick and fast to ensure the thread was kept up to date.

 

[P1K3Y_M1k3Y]

Personally I think the calendar rework or database for all series is the best idea as it allows everyone to easily see what's on and when.

I also like the idea of a regulation and car spec database that series owners could use if they wish.

As for the "semesters" or seasons, this would work so long as the length options were increased to allow for a series to run for a full year if that is what the host has planned.

@Furi, Jay Leno Tank Car series? I would say you put that one in the bin

 

[Wardez]

All it needs to be is a Gdocs form for people to fill, easy as that. We can easily output the approved submitted data to the thread automatically.

 

[Jawehawk]

But not every series can fit into that category right? If I want to do a race series for Jay Leno Tank Cars, where do I put that? Though the concept in itself is theoretically workable..

The last catagory would be a "Misc" group, which would have a tiny bit more info on the individual race series than the other catagories.

 

[R0ssingt0n]

Not everyone wants to fill out forms to take part though... I'm sure there are people like me who prefer to just say "sign me up" on the thread.

 

[Furinkazen]

As far as i'm concerned, if these things are implemented they should be made optional. You talk of making it easier for people to start series... and then throw extra things and registrations in...

People like Ross have done that for years with me and there's never been an issue.

 

[Wardez]

These regulations aren't trying to be pressed on anyone. This isn't some sort of forum take over where anyone is going to come in and tell people how to run their series. It's all entirely optional, I have no idea how you can possibly take otherwise from the message being displayed here.

It's about working together where and how you want to in order to spur up more participation and to make it easier for those that were on the fence about racing before to take the plunge.

And I keep hearing the old " we've done things the same way and it's worked" mentality, which is really a kick in the balls to hear in my opinion. Are we really going to just become complacent when there's so much opportunity for growth and change coming?

Put it this way: if you guys don't change, someone else will come around and evolve without you, leaving you behind. The time to expand your horizons is now, otherwise you'll get caught up in the game of catch up.

Again, we don't want to have a single group or person ruling over everything at all, it's about putting together an association of dedicated and experienced series and club organizers so we can all have one powerful voice to project our concerns and wishes. It's just like FOTA (Formula One Team Association), that's all.

Come on, stick with us here guys.

Just realized something as well, people that want to run extremely long series aren't terribly interested in attracting more or new drivers to the series. Those groups that want to run 6-month + long series are essentially clubs running their seasons in the Racing Series section.

So one proposal gained from that is coming up with a standard of classification for what the different between a club and a series is. Clubs could be something like, series that run for more than 3 months, or around there.

Not everyone wants to fill out forms to take part though... I'm sure there are people like me who prefer to just say "sign me up" on the thread.

No man, it's a form for series organizers to submit their series data to for us to collect and store. Not anything to do with drivers signing up.

 

[Furinkazen]

Very much a set of fair points. I think we should wait until we learn more about GT6's features first however.