Damage - laps under yellow flag - tow trucks - ambulances - death

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dbarrade

dbarrade

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I'm not sure what it is people want damage for?

I've been to a few track days; the feeling you have when someone loses it and hits a barrier and they are taken away in an ambulance and the wrecked car is towed off the track and basically the next couple of hours are spent not on track feeling bad for the poor guy whilst waiting for Marshalls to clear the debris and fluids off the track.

GT is like my idea of a perfect track day, I get to learn how to better drive a car without the fear of breaking it. In real life I'm reluctant to push my car to the extent I do in GT because I couldn't afford the repairs.

The last thing I want is to be worried that I'm going to break my virtual car and wont be able to afford the virtual repairs.

Damage in WRC that alters the outcome of the course time is realistic; you have to balance that "on the edge" driving and the risk of breaking your car with driving safer and having the benefit of fully working mechanicals.

Damage in simulated Motorsport series such as F1, Le Mans or NASCAR could help simulate the feelings of the frustrated driver who has that time during the yellow flag to contemplate their actions and what they are going to do next.

If you want damage for the spectacular crashes with bits flying everywhere then I suggest you check out Motorstorm or Burnout.

If you are here to compare the realism of Forza to GT and are feeling smug that Forza ticks the damage box then be aware that in FM3 at the first sign of minimal damage the game prompts you to rewind and correct your mistake... effectively negating any "improvements" it has as a simulator.

If you are none of the above, please tell me how damage adds to your game experience?
 
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Have you ever played a game with damage?

Normally the cost comes out of your winnings and it will never be more than that.

GT5 NEEDS damage to stay current.

Edit: I'm not just saying current as in Forza, GT is the only racing game set for this generation without it.
 
Justin, have you ever driven in real life and experienced damage? It's not fun. It's expensive and usually your car is off the road / track for months...

OK, so lets say in GT5 I just bought a Ferrari F1 2007, I totally destroy it on the first lap because I haven't driven one before, am I now expected to save up to replace it?

What benefit does this really give me? Why would I want to waste my winnings on repairing cars when I have another 700+ cars plus modifications to save up for?
 
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In the perfect Sim world, damage is there to promote better driving.

Reality is it will undoubtedly promote frustration. A search for "punters" and the Dirty Drivers thread will highlight the agression and frustration and willingness to hate currently experienced by drivers who are here to race. Now add the prospect of punted+damaged car and I see a lot of whinging coming from those areas who like to whinge. :)

From what I see on these forums a vast majority of people wont tolerate what would be classified as a "racing incident" that is not their fault, yet leaves them either unable to finish a race, or seriously incapable of competing.

I've seen agression with accidental contact during a race, I hate to think how these same people will react to RacerA accidentally planting his GTR up the clacker of RacerB into a hairpin and putting RacerB out of the race, Im not really sure I want damage included in OLR.
 
i guess the perfect thing would be to damage your car, but the repairs arent charged, because honestly...paying your damage in a game too, too real for my taste aaand, it would be a pain in the arse... so

Damage only without paying it.
 
So it's all about the spectacular replay with bits of car flying everywhere?

You don't expect to wait under safety flags whilst the track is cleared and the car is towed?

Nobody wants to be penalised for some chump rear ending them in an online race... so it's all about the eye candy...

Fine, I can live with that, anything that makes me go wooooooaaaaah whilst watching a replay is cool.
 
Why is it that people on this forum always have to make damage more complicated than it is?
 
Because it is complicated and I'm upset that Polyphony have spent a lot of time modelling damage in GT5 which I think could have been better spent improving the physics engine, or real time day night / weather cycles which in my opinion affect racing / track days far more than damage.

If you want spectacular crashes go play Motorstorm.

Where is it going to end? As soon as Polyphony have spent countless hours implementing realistic car deformation, all we are going to hear about up until GT6 is released is how the track is indestructible, barriers don't break, mud doesn't get tyre tracks in it... etc etc etc

Surely what we really want is a car that drives and feels more like a real car, it is the real driving simulator after all, not the real crashing simulator.
 
dbarrade
Surely what we really want is a car that drives and feels more like a real car, it is the real driving simulator after all, not the real crashing simulator.
Click to expand...

So you want the cars to feel real, but with no damage which happens on real cars?

So, how can you be real and nor real at the same time?
 
I want damage because I want consequences for hitting things or being stupid. Thats about it. Repair costs in the virtual world should either be small or they should be taken out of winnings (so if you have damage but dont win, it doesn't cost you anything).

GT5 shouldn't be a simulation of someone who can barely afford to take their car to the track because of damage done to it. It should be a simulation of someone who has the money to pay for damage then head on to the next race. Real life racing is expensive, a good set of tires is extremely expensive and doesn't last very long at all.

We aren't looking for the sort of damage which is like "Oh no, I smashed my car, now I can't play the game again for 3 years until I can afford to replace it". We are looking for the same damage that is in every other racing game around. Look at Forza, the TOCA series, GRID, DIRT, GTR, Live for Speed, rFactor, ANYTHING, they all have damage and I wouldn't have it any other way.
 
dbarrade
Justin, have you ever driven in real life and experienced damage? It's not fun. It's expensive and usually your car is off the road / track for months...

OK, so lets say in GT5 I just bought a Ferrari F1 2007, I totally destroy it on the first lap because I haven't driven one before, am I now expected to save up to replace it?

What benefit does this really give me? Why would I want to waste my winnings on repairing cars when I have another 700+ cars plus modifications to save up for?
Click to expand...

Have you ever realized that damage is exactly what people want? Damage allows for you to learn from your mistakes. If you don't have damage and you hit a wall at 100mph and keep on going. What did that teach you? NOTHING.

Granted, most people are going to use it to view the crash modeling but some are going to learn from mistakes via it. Thus making them a better driver. Plain and simple. Maybe you can't understand it.
 
dbarrade
So it's all about the spectacular replay with bits of car flying everywhere?

You don't expect to wait under safety flags whilst the track is cleared and the car is towed?

Nobody wants to be penalised for some chump rear ending them in an online race... so it's all about the eye candy...

Fine, I can live with that, anything that makes me go wooooooaaaaah whilst watching a replay is cool.
Click to expand...

No. Damage that either only comes out of your winnings (never exceeding), or damage that is automagically repaired for free at the end of a race is there to promote better driving. But yes, it also makes the game more technically impressive. And a more realistic sim. No more will people be able to get away with riding walls.
 
bergauk
Have you ever realized that damage is exactly what people want? Damage allows for you to learn from your mistakes. If you don't have damage and you hit a wall at 100mph and keep on going. What did that teach you? NOTHING.
Click to expand...

It does teach you something, it makes you lose the race - which I think would be motivation enough to improve.

I'm not really that bothered by the lack of damage. I don't want to have to limp around because of someone else's mistake and have my race ruined. But I can understand why people would want it. In real racing you're not really supposed to hit other cars, and that is how I race. If I'm not going to hit anything, why do I need damage?


*edit

I do agree with the riding walls part, but I'm not really bothered by that too much. Though it's mildly irritating. Generally, they aren't fast enough to be a bother.
 
dbarrade
Where is it going to end? As soon as Polyphony have spent countless hours implementing realistic car deformation, all we are going to hear about up until GT6 is released is how the track is indestructible, barriers don't break, mud doesn't get tyre tracks in it... etc etc etc
Click to expand...

It won't end, because it's the endless pursuit of perfection. With each generation, and with more powerful hardware, we are afforded the opportunity for greater realism and detail. Therefore, we (both consumer and developer) rightfully expect more and more with each incarnation.
 
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Dijital Majik
It's won't end, because it's the endless pursuit of perfection. With each generation, and with more powerful hardware, we are afforded to opportunity for greater realism and detail. Therefore, we (both consumer and developer) rightfully expect more and more with each incarnation.
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I wholeheartedly agree with this post. This is probably the first time I've ever shared a viewpoint with someone in this part of the forums. I'm tired of users incessant whining about how the game isn't out yet. Or how they want certain things from it. To see this post makes me happy. 👍
 
Take the events races in gt5p as a case study. All the way through A-class, you can use other cars as braking points with no real penalty. It isn't realistic and it doesn't promote good driving. It promotes poor driving. As long as you can get away with it in the single player game, people will be more likely to do so online. Not that it'd get rid of punters entirely if it was fixed.

You're not supposed to hit people in a race, but it happens anyways. Miscalculating a situation happens, and at that point it is up to the awareness and the reflexes of the driver to avoid a collision. Plus, at this point with gt5p, it's just too easy to be cavalier with the consequences of lazy driving. "Oh, I can't be bothered to slam on the brakes to fix my miscalculated apex/speed/etc, since sliding on the wall will keep me going faster than fixing it." or "Well, I could brake earlier because of the slow driver in front of me, or I could push it to the very last moment and bump them anyways."

It's different online than in single player events, and S-class events, but it's still generally true.

p.s. first post in over a year. I've been lurking too much since GT4's heyday. Cheers!
 
dbarrade
Because it is complicated and I'm upset that Polyphony have spent a lot of time modelling damage in GT5 which I think could have been better spent improving the physics engine, or real time day night / weather cycles which in my opinion affect racing / track days far more than damage.

If you want spectacular crashes go play Motorstorm.

Where is it going to end? As soon as Polyphony have spent countless hours implementing realistic car deformation, all we are going to hear about up until GT6 is released is how the track is indestructible, barriers don't break, mud doesn't get tyre tracks in it... etc etc etc

Surely what we really want is a car that drives and feels more like a real car, it is the real driving simulator after all, not the real crashing simulator.
Click to expand...

Damage is not there for eye candy, well, not for us. It's really more of a motivator to do better and take less risks, like a real driver would. And I doubt that PD will make us pay for repairs. Don't you want to see those wall riders total their ford gt's and those punters having severe engine damage from rear ending you, or even see those track cutters destroy their chassis riding across the S curves. I have to admit, you have your cards on the table, but there is a reason for us wanting damage.
 
I really do hope a better flag system is implemented, so we don't end up with a massive broken cars on track during a long race. Or maybe they will just disappear and end up in the pits.
 
I like the idea of damage, alls I want to see is that if you touch a wall or hit another car, your car is damaged in some way and as realistically as possible. I don't want to see bits flying everywhere if alls you have done is tapped the wall or nudged another racer. Damage needs to be done correctly or not at all, and this seems why Kaz has been reluctant to include it in the GT series until he can get it right. I trust Kaz to come up with somthing amazing regards damage, and I believe it will only ever be included once he is happy with outcome.

Now as far as paying for repairs, I would rather you just have to visit a garage to get it repaired before you race it again. A bit like GT4 where you visit the Autoshop, to get an oil change or wheel change for little or no charge.

Grim
 
I think you are all going to be disappointed as the GT5 concept video clearly shows the Subaru receiveing a hell of a lot of damage from hitting a plastic ribon strung between two tiny poles. Look at the shadow :(
 
Gt5 needs damage. Why wouldnt you want it? Real life has dangers, and crashing is one of them.

Besides, if, in 2009/10, you crash in GT5 and the car bounces of the wall..then theres not much i can say any more, except it looks horrendously bad, not to mention the press would slaughter PD.
 
GT has a subtitle "The Real Simulator".

To me this means as close to realistic as can be done, and in Kaz's case, done properly.
Damage is essential in the evolution of GT, I believe.

Cost should be a reasonable punishment for mistakes, as too harsh will deter,as the dbarrade has vented, and too minimal, not enough deterent to drive within oneself.

I personally would be happy with the puntee in online racing, only suffer the race damage not the cost to repair. Ha just thought of it then,maybe the driver that punts pays both bills in online racing.
 
I would find it hard not to laugh as some punter missed a corner and went flying into the wall at 200km/h.
Success!
 
I think damage in gt5 will be amazing and should always be active during time trials online so nobody can use the walls to get round the corner at 150 mph
 
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