- 864
- Long Beach, CA
- danonite
There are so many obscure tuners and race cars that we haven't seen since GT2. All the Mugens, Tom's, and Nismos. All the JGTC cars that have been missing. All the RMs. To me, GT2 definitely had the best car selection. 
This game had so many awesome cars that we'll never see again
- Thread starter Midnight Snacks
- 129 comments
- 20,445 views
Robin
Premium
- 16,799
- United Kingdom
I agree, that was back in the day where there was a large chunk of the range was available for every manufacturer, particularly western ones. Now you get one car here and one there 
I guess because it was so easy to create the models back then that meant there could be more of them.
Robin.
I guess because it was so easy to create the models back then that meant there could be more of them.Robin.
- 10,557
- Columbia, MD.
- Parnelli_Bones
If the situation were reversed...if GT2 had Lambos and Ferraris and Boss Mustangs and lots of older racing cars, but GT5 had all the cars mentioned in the OP, everyone would be saying the same thing. GT2 is this "awesome" game because it has all these cars that are now missing...bla bla bla.
Would be nice to see Venturi, Vector, and a few others found only in GT2 ('82 Starlet, anyone?) make a comeback, though.
Would be nice to see Venturi, Vector, and a few others found only in GT2 ('82 Starlet, anyone?) make a comeback, though.
Robin
Premium
- 16,799
- United Kingdom
Same here, they would take for example Peugeot and do nearly every car in the range at the time... 106, 206, 306, 406 etc... You never see that anymore in GT and your lucky if you get 2 cars per manufacturer. I also loved how many 'normal' European Ford's and Opel's GT2 had in there.
stoperan
I think its more time issue than license issues these days. If it takes 3 months per premium car then even if they have a 'whole range' license there simply isn't the time.
Robin.
- 19,702
- Alabamamania
I get the idea that Polyphony wanted Touring Car racing to be a greater part of the game, with most of them taking race mods that look a lot like their BTCC brethren of the time (1997-99). They should have made the 5 races into a series with points (as were all non-Manufacturer-specific events with Racing Modifications), but what's done is done. A pity that concept was never carried over into further iterations of GT.
Luxury Sedans and Wagons had their own 3-race section, which was probably something that most people didn't like, but hey, it's something different. That also never really made the leap into other versions of GT, although GT4 started adding pickups and SUVs that varied in interest. (Who knew a Dodge Ram could be so much fun...or at least, so dominant?)
The idea that many cars could be made into racing cars via Racing Modifications sort of opened the door to make semi-mundane cars into something a little more interesting or into a finer piece of racecraft made the game a bit more fun, in my opinion...longer replay-ablility and few restrictions on where and when you could enter your car opens up the game immensely.
FF cars generally handled a little too well (unless you put Simulation tires on them), and that could sometimes be a little too simplistic...although that meant they didn't stay unused after you cleared the Manufacturer's Event, and you could try them out against other types of cars.
I think they went a little nuts on the Skylines (40+ variants, counting the Tommy Kairas), and there were lots of cars that were effective duplicates of each other (different in colors and model years only). There were also muscle cars and pony cars and historic machinery that could seriously compete, so what's wrong with that?
GT2 opened up the doors to the series in a way that altered the way the game was played through GT4. GT3 was a little half-baked, but the graphics wowed, so people forgot that it had only a few more cars than the original GT had...yet it also put the game on a diet that became bloated again in GT4 with many more cars...about 100-200 of them could have been removed (most of them just copies or really slow stuff with under 50 horsepower) with no harm done to the game.
I've kind of been a proponent of "more is better" in GT, but I think part of the point was missed with some of the tuner cars: One of the cornerstones of the game is that you take a car and modify it to compete against more powerful or sportier competition. By allowing me to buy/win a pre-tuned car, especially one that mimics another car that I can buy from the game's dealership, you've taken away a little more of the fun, in my opinion. GT2 generally put a limit on most of these cars, as you could tune most "normal" cars into something a little quicker and lighter than the tuner variant that mostly couldn't get a racing modification.
In short, I feel the "tuner car" ought to either be impressively lighter (say, a Spoon Integra) or absolutely unholy quick and powerful (Buick Special, for example) to be included as a separate car. Amuse, Mugen, and Spoon S2000's...I don't get the point, in terms of when the game allows me to do with a comparable Honda S2000.
Looking at a nearly-full car list of GT5 makes me think that PD just threw in some fresh new faces on top of 99% of GT4's stock, with a couple of classics and exotics from the past (now with Lamborghini and Ferrari, at least!), although the gameplay sounds as if it's a totally new direction (albeit, a confusing one for me) for the game.
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- 10,557
- Columbia, MD.
- Parnelli_Bones
This was golden for me....the reason I stayed with GT2 for so much longer than 1 or 3. The fact that you could take an ordinary, everyday vehicle which originally handled like it should have been left in the grocery aisle (including kei cars and other slugs people usually avoided) and make it into a little track star, complete with racing decals and the ability to blow away cars much more confident.
I never got into most of the tuner cars, or the JGTCs, DTMs, etc, because making the transformation from mundane to mercilous was so much more fun.
I do appreciate all the tuners, though.
- 3,957
- Cleveland
I really shouldn't be replying to this thread since I'm not sure what cars were and weren't included in future GT's, but I do have a few thoughts.
For one, it seems like the Japanese used cars included at least 80-100 redundant or unnecessary models. If the focus was just on a diversity of interesting models, these cars could have been left out and others included. I feel like they were left in because it was easy to do and it added a kind of depth and reality to the used car lots. If you were really going shopping at a Honda used+new dealership, you'd see not just the '93 civic si and the '98 Type R, you'd also see '95s and '97s. Greater meaning could have been given to this range of model availability if more events with stricter rule checking had been included. New car only events vs used car events for each model year from 91 through 98, stock NA vs stock turbo, actually checking for sedan vs hatch vs wagon vs coupe vs sports coupe vs supercar (and listing what categories a car belongs to in its garage/purchase screen.)
Also, I'm part way through a tuner comparo where I look at the performance of the tuner car vs its stock equivalent tuned to the same weight to power ratio, and I have to say so far my testing backs up what others have been saying. Many of the tuner cars are not appreciably different in performance from their stock counterparts. One thing in particular that always irked me about tuner cars is they mostly look like they have aero parts installed that the stock version lacks, but there's no difference in DF when you check the tuning screen. If stock was 12/21, then the tuner should be 15/25 or something like that. In many cases yes ride height and suspension base values are different, but this could have been more exaggerated in almost every case to create a more different driving experience. The Mugen Civic Ferio and the Tom's 280T actually performed worse than their stock versions in testing, I mean come on!
It kind of makes sense that tuner models can't be RM'ed, it would take away from the normal stock model's ability to go further through RM'ing. But it would have been nice to see base and RM equivalents of most of them available, with the RM's being prize cars somewhere. So, if we could win a Mugen NSX Race Car, we should have been able to win (or buy) a Mugen NSX stock car. And if we can win a Mugen Accord Wagon stock car, then we should be be able to win a Mugen Accord Wagon Race Car. But if you could RM a tuner stock car, it should end up like a LM version with greater DF, like 72/96, whereas normal stock cars are normally stuck with like 46/70 max DF or something like that. And who says tuner cars have to be won as prizes? The CRX Pro II came out in the early '90s or late '80s, so why can't you just buy one in the used car lot? Like the NISMO GT-R R32?
And yes, the dupe versions of racing prize cars are unnecessary as well. At most they should have been included as alternate liveries you could win just as you can win other cars in a variety of colors.
But in general, the massive diversity of cars available in GT2 that I found when I first got the game after a year of GT1 just blew my mind, and it's kept me playing GT2 to this day because there are still so many models I haven't really tried. If we give ourselves a couple hours to get even a superficial taste of each model, that's 1200 hours of gameplay. And if you want to try each enduro with a dozen different models, that's a couple hundred more hours. And if you want to go back and more seriously try 50-100 models in many of their possible tuning states (say 20 hours each) that's another 1000-2000 hours. What am I up to here, possibly 3400 hours? At 3 hours a day 2 days a week, that's about 10 years of shelf life, at a cost of just over a penny an hour.
So, while I can't really speak to what particular models I wish were included in future GT's, I can say that PD did a great job of packing a ton of value into their second creation with the abundant diversity of car models they included.
One last thought. In researching different models, I frequently discover some limited edition variant with better suspension, engine, etc. I'm not sure if more of these have been included in future GT's, but I think adding them alongside base stock models and special tuner models would have been a great idea. We did see the 400R, 270R, and 22B, I'd just like to see more of that.
For one, it seems like the Japanese used cars included at least 80-100 redundant or unnecessary models. If the focus was just on a diversity of interesting models, these cars could have been left out and others included. I feel like they were left in because it was easy to do and it added a kind of depth and reality to the used car lots. If you were really going shopping at a Honda used+new dealership, you'd see not just the '93 civic si and the '98 Type R, you'd also see '95s and '97s. Greater meaning could have been given to this range of model availability if more events with stricter rule checking had been included. New car only events vs used car events for each model year from 91 through 98, stock NA vs stock turbo, actually checking for sedan vs hatch vs wagon vs coupe vs sports coupe vs supercar (and listing what categories a car belongs to in its garage/purchase screen.)
Also, I'm part way through a tuner comparo where I look at the performance of the tuner car vs its stock equivalent tuned to the same weight to power ratio, and I have to say so far my testing backs up what others have been saying. Many of the tuner cars are not appreciably different in performance from their stock counterparts. One thing in particular that always irked me about tuner cars is they mostly look like they have aero parts installed that the stock version lacks, but there's no difference in DF when you check the tuning screen. If stock was 12/21, then the tuner should be 15/25 or something like that. In many cases yes ride height and suspension base values are different, but this could have been more exaggerated in almost every case to create a more different driving experience. The Mugen Civic Ferio and the Tom's 280T actually performed worse than their stock versions in testing, I mean come on!
It kind of makes sense that tuner models can't be RM'ed, it would take away from the normal stock model's ability to go further through RM'ing. But it would have been nice to see base and RM equivalents of most of them available, with the RM's being prize cars somewhere. So, if we could win a Mugen NSX Race Car, we should have been able to win (or buy) a Mugen NSX stock car. And if we can win a Mugen Accord Wagon stock car, then we should be be able to win a Mugen Accord Wagon Race Car. But if you could RM a tuner stock car, it should end up like a LM version with greater DF, like 72/96, whereas normal stock cars are normally stuck with like 46/70 max DF or something like that. And who says tuner cars have to be won as prizes? The CRX Pro II came out in the early '90s or late '80s, so why can't you just buy one in the used car lot? Like the NISMO GT-R R32?
And yes, the dupe versions of racing prize cars are unnecessary as well. At most they should have been included as alternate liveries you could win just as you can win other cars in a variety of colors.
But in general, the massive diversity of cars available in GT2 that I found when I first got the game after a year of GT1 just blew my mind, and it's kept me playing GT2 to this day because there are still so many models I haven't really tried. If we give ourselves a couple hours to get even a superficial taste of each model, that's 1200 hours of gameplay. And if you want to try each enduro with a dozen different models, that's a couple hundred more hours. And if you want to go back and more seriously try 50-100 models in many of their possible tuning states (say 20 hours each) that's another 1000-2000 hours. What am I up to here, possibly 3400 hours? At 3 hours a day 2 days a week, that's about 10 years of shelf life, at a cost of just over a penny an hour.
So, while I can't really speak to what particular models I wish were included in future GT's, I can say that PD did a great job of packing a ton of value into their second creation with the abundant diversity of car models they included.
One last thought. In researching different models, I frequently discover some limited edition variant with better suspension, engine, etc. I'm not sure if more of these have been included in future GT's, but I think adding them alongside base stock models and special tuner models would have been a great idea. We did see the 400R, 270R, and 22B, I'd just like to see more of that.
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- 40,886
Most of those problems are in GT5, and they are exponentially worse.
For example, GT2 has several yearly variations of some Japanese cars. GT5 has a similar problem, but PD took those cars and gave them three different names. For example, you have a '91 MX-5 Miata, a '91 MX-5 and a '91 Eunos Roadster. This means that there are well over a hundred cars in GT5 that are copies of another car in the game, even though there were unique cars in GT3 and GT4 that didn't return to GT5.
For example, GT2 has several yearly variations of some Japanese cars. GT5 has a similar problem, but PD took those cars and gave them three different names. For example, you have a '91 MX-5 Miata, a '91 MX-5 and a '91 Eunos Roadster. This means that there are well over a hundred cars in GT5 that are copies of another car in the game, even though there were unique cars in GT3 and GT4 that didn't return to GT5.
- 10,557
- Columbia, MD.
- Parnelli_Bones
What's funny is people complained about those redundant models when GT2 was released, and they're still complaining now. Kaz has said in an interview that back when GT was in creation (mid '90s) Japanese drivers knew of all the differences in the various models, and since GT is a Japanese game, it was easiest for PD to implement all these "repeat" models, because they actually did make a difference to the Japanese gamer at the time.
But he admitted (sorry if this is a spoiler, jeff) that especially in GT5, this idea is basically outdated in today's world. He seems to be wishing he could have done things different.
Personally, I say more is better overall. I'd rather have more cars than less. But it wouldn't hurt if (in the future games) they could just focus on adding the tons of American and European cars that made a difference. Maybe even introduce the world to a Skoda or something made in a former communist country. I would drive it!
But he admitted (sorry if this is a spoiler, jeff) that especially in GT5, this idea is basically outdated in today's world. He seems to be wishing he could have done things different.
Personally, I say more is better overall. I'd rather have more cars than less. But it wouldn't hurt if (in the future games) they could just focus on adding the tons of American and European cars that made a difference. Maybe even introduce the world to a Skoda or something made in a former communist country. I would drive it!
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- 3,957
- Cleveland
Again, like I was saying about special limited edition models being interesting, it would have also been interesting if you could get a 180SX(J) and a 240SX(US) with all their actual production differences modeled. So, if there was actually a difference in real life between the MX-5, MX-5 Miata, and Eunos Roadster, I would love to do a comparo between the regionally distinct models! If in the game they're just copies of each other though, that's just lazy game design.
- 40,886
It would help if they had bothered to model those changes. That's just making an excuse because people are complaining that PD were lazy. GT2 actually attempted to do that. I loved that I could buy a Lexus GS300, Aristo 3.0V and a GS400 and compare them in GT2.
GT5 does not. So we end up with 240SX models with SR20DET engines, AWD non-turbo Mitsubishi 3000GTs and Lexus SC300s with 2.5L turbocharged engines.
- 1,600
- ON, Canada
- AMCNUT
- AMCNUT
A list of the best cars in GT2 that never made it to GT5 (or any other GT!):
Bold are the ones I miss the most....
Alfa-Romeo 155 2.0 TS 16V
Aston-Martin DB6
Audi TT LM Edition (complete with epic RM scheme)
BMW 740i
BMW 840ci
Chrysler Phaeton
Dodge Avenger ES
Dodge Intrepid ES
Dodge Neon R/T
Dodge Concept Car LM Edition
Ford Mustang GT '98
Ford Mustang SVT Cobra '98
Ford GT90
Honda Accord Sedan '96
Honda Mugen CRX II
Jaguar XJR XJR Vehicle
Jaguar XJR15 GT Race Car
Lister Storm V12 Road Car
Lotus Elise GT1
Lotus Esprit GT1
Mercedes-Benz C43 AMG
Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG
Mitsubishi Galant VR4 '96
Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg R '92
Mitsubishi 3000GT LM Edition
Renault Espace F1
Shelby Cobra Coupe '65
Toyota Starlet 3 Door Turbo S '82
Toyota Momo MR2 GT '99
Vector W8
Vector M12
Vector M12 LM
Venturi Atlantique 300
Venturi Atlantique 400GT
Venturi Atlantique 600 LM
Some of these cars I guess are because of licenses and out of PD's hands, but for others I feel there is no excuse! Either way, too many epic cars in GT2 - enough to keep me going back after all these years - at least when I finally unearth the PS1...
Bold are the ones I miss the most....
Alfa-Romeo 155 2.0 TS 16V
Aston-Martin DB6
Audi TT LM Edition (complete with epic RM scheme)
BMW 740i
BMW 840ci
Chrysler Phaeton
Dodge Avenger ES
Dodge Intrepid ES
Dodge Neon R/T
Dodge Concept Car LM Edition
Ford Mustang GT '98
Ford Mustang SVT Cobra '98
Ford GT90
Honda Accord Sedan '96
Honda Mugen CRX II
Jaguar XJR XJR Vehicle
Jaguar XJR15 GT Race Car
Lister Storm V12 Road Car
Lotus Elise GT1
Lotus Esprit GT1
Mercedes-Benz C43 AMG
Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG
Mitsubishi Galant VR4 '96
Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg R '92
Mitsubishi 3000GT LM Edition
Renault Espace F1
Shelby Cobra Coupe '65
Toyota Starlet 3 Door Turbo S '82
Toyota Momo MR2 GT '99
Vector W8
Vector M12
Vector M12 LM
Venturi Atlantique 300
Venturi Atlantique 400GT
Venturi Atlantique 600 LM
Some of these cars I guess are because of licenses and out of PD's hands, but for others I feel there is no excuse! Either way, too many epic cars in GT2 - enough to keep me going back after all these years - at least when I finally unearth the PS1...
- 3,585
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
I now remember these and miss them thanks to you. 
I also miss the Renault Espace F1 dearly. I'd like to add the Saleen Mustang Race car to that list.
Honestly. Honestly. How incredibly awesome would it be for Polyphony Digital to re-release GT2 with an online mode, 16 car grid for online races and make it available on PSN?
We could have BTCC/JTCC/ATCC/etc touring car races. There would be epic Le Mans races (even without Le Mans). The list of awesome goes on if that happened.
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- 10,557
- Columbia, MD.
- Parnelli_Bones
- 3,585
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
Daishin Silvia was my favorite GT300 car ever! Then there was the WedsSport Celica and I remember an MR2 if I'm correct...
Remember the TRD MR2 and the TOM'S MR2? *sigh*
We need to seriously write a petition to PD to re-release GT2 with online racing.
I could see that happening, there have been many 'HD Collection' releases and they are going to release more PS1 games on PSN so there are plenty of opportunities. With the graphics of GT2 you could probably have 30 car online races!
Robin.
It might also depend on players connections and the amount of server usage they put towards it. Even with only 6 cars on track, online mode would still be pretty kick ass. You could run eliminator competitions with the top two cars moving on to the next round.
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- 1,600
- ON, Canada
- AMCNUT
- AMCNUT
I'd like to add the Saleen Mustang Race car to that list.
Honestly. Honestly. How incredibly awesome would it be for Polyphony Digital to re-release GT2 with an online mode, 16 car grid for online races and make it available on PSN?
We could have BTCC/JTCC/ATCC/etc touring car races. There would be epic Le Mans races (even without Le Mans). The list of awesome goes on if that happened.
Oh yeah, the Saleen SR Widebody... I did forget about that! And I also forgot about the Subaru SVX... I really, REALLY like that car for some reason.👍 Too bad it didn't make the cut, either...
But yes, an online GT2 would be insanely fun!
I could see myself sinking a ton of time into something like that. Actually, I find it hard to believe that no one had thought of that prior to now!I think of all the past GTs (or any game, really), GT2 still in my opinion, has the strongest and most loyal fanbase for such an old game anywhere! Lets hope PD can gain some inspiration for the future by looking into the past...
I agree! +1!👍
- 10,557
- Columbia, MD.
- Parnelli_Bones
TT3AZ
(Banned)
- 1,566
- tt3_az
- TT3AZ
GT2 had a very cool car list, to bad gt5 has a absurd car list, wonder what Kaz was smoking when he decided the list. But hey, they only modelled 200 cars, rest of them was straight from gt4 and gt psp. How fun....thanks PD, i spend 40 bucks for a game that is less quality than gt2.
- 10,557
- Columbia, MD.
- Parnelli_Bones
