Affirmative Action
- Thread starter milefile
- 186 comments
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- 12,993
- USA! USA!
Blah. Demolish it. Minorities shouldn't be allowed jobs for the simple fact of being a minority. You can't fix a wrong with another wrong.
Im torn on this one. I think a lot of minorities have gotten the short end of the stick because of economic hardships. Look at it this way. A guy is a minority and was brought up in a economically depressed area that is mostly minority.He goes to school in an under funded school with underpaid teachers where there is a lot of violence. His parents are hard workers but the pay isn't good so they live around the poverty level.Because of the money situation it's hard to get out of that area. Especially when there isn't a job waiting for them somewhere else. The guy gets real good grades and trys hard but by the time he hits 16 he needs to get a job to help support the family so his school works suffers some. He graduates school with a 3.0 GPA. Not nearly good enough to get a full scholarship. So he goes to work at a local store and the cycle continues.
I know this can happen to non minorities also so I feel that there should be some consideration made on the socioeconomic state of that person and the area they grew up in. The people that didn't have some of the advantages some of us have had should be helped along some to get them out of this cycle.
I know this can happen to non minorities also so I feel that there should be some consideration made on the socioeconomic state of that person and the area they grew up in. The people that didn't have some of the advantages some of us have had should be helped along some to get them out of this cycle.
- 19,706
- Alabamamania
Affirmative Action is absurd. Maybe it was necessary when White Man was running the show, and segregation was rampant some 40-60 years ago.
But it isn't necessary anymore. If everyone wants to be treated equally, then do away with questions of sex and race on any application. Then, go ahead and hire/accept the best person for the job.
I certainly wouldn't want to be the token Jew (and I'm not even a heavily religous one at that) "accepted" because the Anti-Defamation League thought that Coropartion XYZ or ABC University needed one to "balance things out".
Nobody's challenged the Veteran's Preference, interestingly enough. What about the athletes and wealthy alumni's children? And heck, the HR depatment might just think that Applicant X looks better than Applicant Y.
May the best person win, I say. Take your defeat like an adult, not as a child would.
But it isn't necessary anymore. If everyone wants to be treated equally, then do away with questions of sex and race on any application. Then, go ahead and hire/accept the best person for the job.
I certainly wouldn't want to be the token Jew (and I'm not even a heavily religous one at that) "accepted" because the Anti-Defamation League thought that Coropartion XYZ or ABC University needed one to "balance things out".
Nobody's challenged the Veteran's Preference, interestingly enough. What about the athletes and wealthy alumni's children? And heck, the HR depatment might just think that Applicant X looks better than Applicant Y.
May the best person win, I say. Take your defeat like an adult, not as a child would.
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
The situation you describe is valid. It would be interesting to see just how often that occurs, however. The thing to remember is that this takes longer than one or two generations for a given family. It's unreasonable to try to "improve" the situation in short order by artificially boosting the acceptance rates of a given minority.
My ancestors came over from England in the early 1800s as indentured servants - paid slaves - who had 8 to 10 years of duty to work off before they were even free people, let alone able to improve their own condition. 100 years later my grandfather finally made it into college and business. A similar story is true for my wife's family. They came over from Italy in the early 1900s. Her grandfather was uneducated but worked hard. He made sure his son graduated from high school. My father-in-law worked hard and made sure that his daughters graduated from college. Our families have come together and now the current generations are professional people, and barring the unforseen there is no reason to think our children will not go to college and even graduate school.
The point is that the phrase "all men are created equal" does not mean "all men must be made equal". The other point is that social changes can't be dictated and wished into existence.
- 10,832
I agree with the general concensus here. Fighting inequality with inequality is pretty stupid. That's not to say there is no inequality.
Liberals always seem to come up with band aid solutions designed to make people quit crying the fastest. Unfortunately they alway make someone else cry even more. For some reason they can't see the value in dealing with the real problem in anything, only it's derivative symptoms.
It reminds me of weeds. When I'm feeling lazy I take the weed whacker and cut them down to the ground. Everything looks nice for a few days, but they always grow back, and I have to go do it again, wasting electricity and having to go and buy more and more line. It never ends. It's a waste of effort and resources. But when I put in the time and effort to go and pull them out by the root they stay gone. My hands get dirty and I have to sit on the ground, but when I'm done the weeds are really gone, and do not merely appear to be gone.
Liberals always seem to come up with band aid solutions designed to make people quit crying the fastest. Unfortunately they alway make someone else cry even more. For some reason they can't see the value in dealing with the real problem in anything, only it's derivative symptoms.
It reminds me of weeds. When I'm feeling lazy I take the weed whacker and cut them down to the ground. Everything looks nice for a few days, but they always grow back, and I have to go do it again, wasting electricity and having to go and buy more and more line. It never ends. It's a waste of effort and resources. But when I put in the time and effort to go and pull them out by the root they stay gone. My hands get dirty and I have to sit on the ground, but when I'm done the weeds are really gone, and do not merely appear to be gone.
- 3,194
I think it was needed during the de-segretive movement, but is only a hinderance today. Thats all from me though,... this crap is waaaaaaaay to vague.
- 3,194
I love the socio-ecomomic theory there DGB :tup That should be the descriminitory factor. But, unfortunately, this ruling will effect jobs and other services,... so that theory wont work
- 10,832
So are a lot of people. In fact it is more simple than those who push it would have you believe.
Do you think there is any chance that liberal rhetoric has convoluted the issue, presented it in a biased, inaccurate way meant to tug at your heartstrings, hoping your guilt will make you more sappy and irrational?
I don't think you are. But their tricks have worked on us all, if just for a moment, or even a few years.
Danoff
Premium
- 34,058
- Mile High City
This is America right? Land of the free? Rags to riches? Anythings possible with hard work and a little creativity?
I'm convinced that anyone, no matter what their beginnings, if they want it bad enough and work hard enough can make anything out of themselves in this country. Aren't the gazillions of scholarships that are already in place for minorities enough to ensure that they can get out of any economic rut????
Kill affirmative action. Its completely racist. If we want equality, how about not looking at the color of people's skin for a change?
I fear the supreme court ruling on this one. If it kills affirmative action then yay. If not, we're in for a really really long streatch of government sanctioned racism. I also think that its interesting to point out that the only black member of the judge panel (Clarence Thomas) is against affirmative action.
I'm convinced that anyone, no matter what their beginnings, if they want it bad enough and work hard enough can make anything out of themselves in this country. Aren't the gazillions of scholarships that are already in place for minorities enough to ensure that they can get out of any economic rut????
Kill affirmative action. Its completely racist. If we want equality, how about not looking at the color of people's skin for a change?
I fear the supreme court ruling on this one. If it kills affirmative action then yay. If not, we're in for a really really long streatch of government sanctioned racism. I also think that its interesting to point out that the only black member of the judge panel (Clarence Thomas) is against affirmative action.
- 3,194
No one is gonna be happy until everyone ****s eachother enough to turn us all the same color,.... 
- 3,194
Yeah,. I was gonna toss religion in there,.... but Jesus will return and send my ass to hell before any of that happens anyway
- 80
Thank you Pupik. Why is the question of race, religion, and sex even on an application? If it is not a requirement for the job, then why is the informaiton needed?
Any rule or law that gives special dispensation to one particular group or another for any reason is discriminatory. There is no such thing as reverse-discrimination, that too is just simply discrimination.
Any rule or law that gives special dispensation to one particular group or another for any reason is discriminatory. There is no such thing as reverse-discrimination, that too is just simply discrimination.
Danoff
Premium
- 34,058
- Mile High City
http://www.ceousa.org/pdfs/VAS Report.pdf
This report is unbelievable. It shows extreme prejudice against white people and asians for college enrollment in the three schools studied.
Are we sure that this kind of behavior is going to end racism? It seems like it's promoting it rather heavily.
This report is unbelievable. It shows extreme prejudice against white people and asians for college enrollment in the three schools studied.
Are we sure that this kind of behavior is going to end racism? It seems like it's promoting it rather heavily.
- 10,687
- Everywhere
I don't know, probably not. And besides, I think I am past the point of applying for jobs with "applications". Just a resume and an interview.
But just for fun, I might grab some applications the next time I'm in a place with "Help wanted" and fill them out. See if I get any calls.
But just for fun, I might grab some applications the next time I'm in a place with "Help wanted" and fill them out. See if I get any calls.
- 19,706
- Alabamamania
emad
Most applications have questions for race and/or sex under the pretext that it's used for "statistical purposes only". But I really don't believe that for one minute. The State University system of Florida had the question of religion in it as long ago as 2000, as far as I've seen, although you could leave that part blank, if you wished, or the faiths listed didn't apply.
However, it is against federal discrimination laws to ask such a question to your face in the interviewing process, except whereby it's an important attribute towards the job you're applying for (a man can't likely model women's underwear for Victoria's Secret photo shoot, for example).
All of this makes me wonder how Disney World hires who they employ for the individual positions at Epcot's "little nations?" ("Sorry, we need someone who really was from Norway and speaks Norweigan! Try Mexico about 500 feet away!")
On the other hand, hiring someone who didn't speak a lick of Norweigian nor know nothing about living there would be an example of Affirmative Action gone horribly wrong. And we're just about at that point.
May the best applicant win, and win fairly.
- 5,842
- Forgotten Wing
The original idea behind affirmative action was to help do away with the racism in the South that lingered on for about a century after the Civil War. Its main goal: to destroy segregation in the workplace. We just learned about this in school, and apparently one of the guys who drafted it, at the time it was drafted, said that it should only be implemented for about 25 years, as it would take that long for people to start paying and hiring regardless of race and gender and start based on qualifications. That statement was made thirty years ago, so the good parts of affirmative action are finding their end in sight. The law is old, and its effects have taken a turn toward bad. It should be removed, just as long as some form of civic education that doesn't even mention the differences between races and genders (aside from when it can't be ignored). Anyone follow what I'm saying?
