Affirmative Action

[MrktMkr1986]

Affirmative Action was designed to give opportunity, not a handout. Judging from the thread about all the members ages, this is a fairly young group. I'm old enough, 46, to have seen countless people denied oppurtunity because of their race. It happens today.
I find it troubling that those of us living in the wealthiest nation in the world are so inclined towards a "I got mine, get your own!" mentality. Many people who profess to be self-made either benefited from a good starting point or were helped somewhere along the way by someone. Part of the purpose of a society is to work together for the benefit of all.

Of course it happens today...

But my opinion is this: affirmative action is not for me -- don't eliminate it -- but don't hire me/accept me into a college/ etc. just because I'm Black! I can do it myself! I fully intend to prove that it's going to take a whole lot more than limited opportunities to keep me down.

 

[PS]

.....I believe that, if I were to stereotype and use a refference to a black person in the ghetto of either Harlem or SC LA, those (once again using the stereotype) black people are simply not trying hard enough, or using common sense. This is where I get into the factual part (because I'm too lazy to actually see what the percentage of black:white:hispanic people living in Harlem or south central LA is), using a stereotype, as a hypothetical situation (the larger number of blacks in "ghetto's"), I can think of this: The people living in the "ghettos", or any crappy neighbourhood for that matter, and cannot get out of it, are lazy. If they don't want to work for their marks, then fine, be my guest. But don't come crying crocodile tears to us saying that we didn't give you a fair chance. School marks are school marks, and if they're crappy, then, guess what? You're going to have a helluva harder time trying to get a job. I'm not sure where Brian is from, I heard his parents are from Jamaica, but I'll use him as an example. Whether or not he came from a poor neighbourhood, or a rich one, he still has to have damn good marks to do what he wants to do. And from the looks of it, he has maintained those good marks.

.....That's what got him ahead, not (I'm guessing) because of "affirmative action", but because he managed to get good marks, and get accepted to University/College, and passed/completed all his tests/assignments. Now, if you're from the "ghetto" and you are doing poorly in school...who's fault is it? Certainly not the Government's (yes you heard say something Pro-USA-Gov't) fault. Not the teachers fault, because unless you can prove corruption within the school faculty, you're on your own pal.

.....As mentioned many times before, Affirmative Action will NOT level the playing field in this day and age. If anything, it will only remind people of racism, and on a subconcious level, will make people more or less biased towards a certain race. Here's a little excerpt from this thread I would like to include:

i have a four letter word i would like to reply with...but i won't. i am going to GUESS that you are "white"?

most caucasians believe that "my people" are taking their jobs, complaining too much, and wasting everything. me being hispanic i am subject to racism and have been many times. you don't realize it but simply being white people trust you more easily. what are these "cultural habits" people keep talking about? please explain what you are saying. you just remember we (hispanics) are growing. simillar to what tyler said, we guard you while you sleep, we feed you, we fix your cars, we work on your homes, and many other things. many African Americans are stuck in bad situations that are getting worse. it is possible to overcome the trials that people face but it is harder to come up from detroit than it is to come up from suburbia. many families need as much help as possible.
Don't come up with that "it was over 50 years ago, get over it" fight because what about native americans? are you saying we should take back the money they have been allowed to earn and their small reserves? we destroyed them and we have tried to repay our mistakes. so is slavery not a bad enough reason to repent and repay the money that was earned from the lives of too many.

"most caucasians believe that "my people" are taking their jobs, complaining too much, and wasting everything. me being hispanic i am subject to racism and have been many times. you don't realize it but simply being white people trust you more easily. what are these "cultural habits" people keep talking about? please explain what you are saying. you just remember we (hispanics) are growing. simillar to what tyler said, we guard you while you sleep, we feed you, we fix your cars, we work on your homes, and many other things. "

.....Ok. So what kind of an argument are you trying to make here? That hispanic people take white or black people's jobs? Or that Hispanic people are all police officers, fruit/vegetable/dairy/cattle/pork farmers, mechanics, certified electricians/plumbers? Because, if I'm correct, you just stereotyped yourself. You just made a "sweeping generalization" about your own race of people, which quite frankly, upsets and confuses me beyond lengths of description.

Don't come up with that "it was over 50 years ago, get over it" fight because what about native americans?

.....Native Americans were a race of people that were nearly completely wiped out. Only 3% (in Canada only 2.5%) of the original tribes and relatives of what first inhabitants there were, are left. That's hardly a fair example. Not to mention the fact that the white man was the one which introduced alcohol, disease, and unreliability to their experience. Never before has the Native American ever been faced with such a people, a people that trades with them, rapes their women, turns their backs on them, steals their land, or barbarically attack them without warning, in mass numbers of trained soldiers. Never before has an entire race of people been corrupted, desanctified and nearly wiped out in only 150 years. And then the government goes so far as to threaten to take away their land, then offer them a dick-all settlement of cash or goods worth next to nothing, and stick them in an Indian Reserve. That's hardly a fair comparison at all.

[edit] Upon further review, the above statement supports one of your points, but should still be taken seriously.

.....Now this is where the Affirmative action comes in. I do believe, and always will, that you should work for what you want. This is where I cut off the slack for the Native Americans, because if they want to go somewhere in life, or achieve their own goals, they can't expect it to be handed to them. This is proven with Brian, whoever Famine really is, and Jordan too. Brian is, some day, going to be working at a company, or running one, where he will undoubtedly be making 6-7 digit dollars. He worked for that, he worked and studied his ass off for is 94 average. And Famine, Famine is like a walking brain (no, not a walking Brian ). From what I've gathered he has gone through many uears of school, has worked very hard to get where he is now, and has a very demanding job. He is a (I think- not quite sure) ...Bio-molecular Analyst? Which needless to say, almost as hard to master as iDrive is. And Jordan. the A-mighty Jordan (like the touch Bri?). Jordan runs, owns, operates, sometimes moderates, and modifies the worlds largest GT-oriented website oriented website in the world. This wasn't just handed to him- he had an idea, some computer/web design/code knowledge, and put it to good use. If it weren't for him, who knows how many souls may not have been converted.

.....To wrap it all up, I basically came here to make it brutally, if not perhaps insensitively (and I appoligize if I've offended anyone for any generalizations or stereotypes, they were for "demonstration purposes" only), clear to people that Affirmative action can not help anyone. If you are given a job because of your race, religion, or creed, and not because of your skill, you may or may not fail at that job, and fail the others who depend on you. If you are not qualified for something, then you should not be doing it.

 

[eaglefan48]

Of course it happens today...

But my opinion is this: affirmative action is not for me -- don't eliminate it -- but don't hire me/accept me into a college/ etc. just because I'm Black! I can do it myself! I fully intend to prove that it's going to take a whole lot more than limited opportunities to keep me down.

Excellent!

I just believe we have to be careful as we go forward that we don't go backwards. There have been many good old boy networks in industry and governmental agencies that were only broken open because of miority set aside programs. I know too many people who liked things the way were in a more segragated past. Perhaps my earlier statement should be rephrased. We, as a society, don't need to give anyone an opportunity... We need to make sure we don't deny anyone an opportunity.
I think the pendulum (sp?) was so far one way for so long that it was necessary to push it past the center point to eventually find balance.

 

[eaglefan48]

School marks are school marks, and if they're crappy, then, guess what? You're going to have a helluva harder time trying to get a job.


You don't think I had an easier time getting good grades and getting into college? I grew up in an upper middle class family, attending school in one of the wealthiest school districts in the United States. With all the resources available to me I guarantee I had an easier time succeeding because the playing field started tilted in my favor. My parents worked very hard to live there, but they were not coming from poverty, either. It's foolish to to pretend that we live in a vacuum where there is no inequality.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Excellent!

I just believe we have to be careful as we go forward that we don't go backwards. There have been many good old boy networks in industry and governmental agencies that were only broken open because of miority set aside programs. I know too many people who liked things the way were in a more segragated past. Perhaps my earlier statement should be rephrased. We, as a society, don't need to give anyone an opportunity... We need to make sure we don't deny anyone an opportunity.
I think the pendulum (sp?) was so far one way for so long that it was necessary to push it past the center point to eventually find balance.

I understand now. I was a bit confused before -- partially because of comments like:

1998
Male: 89.2 %
Female: 10.8
White, non-Hispanic: 41.3 %
Black, non-Hispanic: 41.2
Hispanic: 15.5
Other/c: 2.0


Looks like mostly you find white males. Just behind them you find black males. That’s a disproportionate number of black people in prison. The reason why is largely due to african american and hispanic cultural values

As far as the good old boy networks are concerned, there are still a lot of them out there...

On a trip to Maryland a few weeks ago, I bought a copy of "Black Enterprise". The cover: 75 Most Powerful Blacks in Corporate America. I literally carry around the magazine with me everywhere I go. It serves as a reminder that I can do anything I want to do as long as I work hard at it.

*Richard D. Parsons (Chairman & CEO of Time Warner) is Black! If he can do it (without affirmative action), I can do it too.

 

[PS]

School marks are school marks, and if they're crappy, then, guess what? You're going to have a helluva harder time trying to get a job.


You don't think I had an easier time getting good grades and getting into college? I grew up in an upper middle class family, attending school in one of the wealthiest school districts in the United States. With all the resources available to me I guarantee I had an easier time succeeding because the playing field started tilted in my favor. My parents worked very hard to live there, but they were not coming from poverty, either. It's foolish to to pretend that we live in a vacuum where there is no inequality.

.....Are you not being taught the same thing? Are you not studying for the same things? Do you not have to do homework, and study, and prepare for tests as well? Are you trying to say that you were more fortunate, that you were born smarter or something? I fail to see your point.

.....What I said up there is true- if you slack off, and get crappy marks, it can only be your fault; unless a teacher is not doing their job properly, which btw is rare, most students should be able to do certain things on their own. Or at least come in for extra help if they don't understand something.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

.....Are you not being taught the same thing? Are you not studying for the same things? Do you not have to do homework, and study, and prepare for tests as well? Are you trying to say that you were more fortunate, that you were born smarter or something? I fail to see your point.

I see his point -- but only out of experience.

This link should help.

.....What I said up there is true- if you slack off, and get crappy marks, it can only be your fault; unless a teacher is not doing their job properly, which btw is rare, most students should be able to do certain things on their own. Or at least come in for extra help if they don't understand something.

True, though there are other factors that contribute to low academic acheivement. I'll get into more detail about this tomorrow as I have a four day weekend coming up.

A new essay is due soon...

 

[eaglefan48]

.....Are you not being taught the same thing? Are you not studying for the same things? Do you not have to do homework, and study, and prepare for tests as well? Are you trying to say that you were more fortunate, that you were born smarter or something? I fail to see your point.

You have missed my point completely.

I'm saying I had the advantage of a better situation. I didnt have to work harder.
I didn't have to be smarter. I had a head start based on things not of my doing. I am no better nor smarter than anyone (except this guy Chuck, that I work with. We are all smarter than Chuck) to deny that I benefited from my situation is foolish.

I fear I have become to preachy. That was never my intent.

 

[eaglefan48]

I see his point -- but only out of experience.

This link should help.

QUOTE]

Good link.

Thanks

 

[Danoff]

Blargonator,

i have a four letter word i would like to reply with...but i won't. i am going to GUESS that you are "white"?

What would you say if I told you I were black? Would that change anything? Why? Why the hell does it matter what color my skin is? Why do you need to classify me be the color of my skin? You are racist.

most caucasians believe that "my people" are taking their jobs

your people… as if skin color is important. As if people with the same skin color as you are somehow your people. What is it with your obsession with the color of your skin? Why can you not see past your own racism?

me being hispanic i am subject to racism and have been many times.

It must be your skin color, that’s the only thing you can see.

you don't realize it but simply being white people trust you more easily.

it must be my skin color? You’re incredibly racist.

what are these "cultural habits" people keep talking about?

A culture that promotes affirmative action, handouts due to skin color, is a culture that devalues personal responsibility. The culture that promotes the notion that you are not in control of your destiny, that you’re a victim of circumstance is a culture that will remain held down only by its own lack of initiative. It’s the culture that cultivates statements like:

you don't realize it but simply being white people trust you more easily

that prevent progress.

you just remember we (hispanics) are growing. simillar to what tyler said, we guard you while you sleep, we feed you, we fix your cars, we work on your homes,

this is incredibly racist.

many African Americans are stuck in bad situations that are getting worse

…and it matters that they’re black?

it is possible to overcome the trials that people face but it is harder to come up from detroit than it is to come up from suburbia.

And is there something that is just that should be done about that?

many families need as much help as possible.

many families would do better to take control of their own lives.




MrktMkr,

If this form of racism continues to exist in America, then I see no real harm in Affirmative Action.

You see no harm in Affirmative Action if some form of racism that you don’t know exists continues? You see no harm in singling out members of society based on race for any reason?

Well said!

You’re agreeing with a racist about racist statements.

To danoff: PLEASE rephrase this sentence. I find it highly offensive.

I find your agreement with blargonator highly offensive. But you get offended too easily. I did not intend to imply that skin color dictates culture, please do not take it that way. See my explanation above.

 

[eaglefan48]

Sorry I am not up to speed on creating links or editing posts.


Danoff,
What do you think of the link that MrktMkr refered to?

 

[MrktMkr1986]

MrktMkr,

You see no harm in Affirmative Action if some form of racism that you don’t know exists continues?

RECOMMENDED READING:
"Black Like Me" by John Howard Griffin
"Driving While Black" by Kenneth Meeks

You see no harm in singling out members of society based on race for any reason?

Of course there's harm in singling out members of society based on race -- but when you yourself have been a victim of racial profiling/racism/prejudice its hard to say "oh well... it must be me they hate."

You’re agreeing with a racist about racist statements.

I wasn't agreeing with everything he had to say -- though he brought up an interesting point.

I find your agreement with blargonator highly offensive. But you get offended too easily. I did not intend to imply that skin color dictates culture, please do not take it that way. See my explanation above.

I was wondering how long it was going to take for you to say that... because from the outside (and you know exactly what I mean by that) it sounded to me like you were doing just that.

Well -- now that that's cleared up.

 

[Danoff]

Of course there's harm in singling out members of society based on race -- but when you yourself have been a victim of racial profiling/racism/prejudice its hard to say "oh well... it must be me they hate."

You realize of course that affirmative action gives people a reason to assume others based on the color their skin. You don't have to say "it must be me they hate" but you don't have to support legislated racism either.

Racism will not go away soon, blargonator has effectively proven that. But racism is blargonator's legal right. The problem with affirmative action, though, is that it supports racism and progresses it by singling out people by their skin color and treating them differently (and thus giving others a reason to treat those people basd on the color of their skin).

Surely it is obvious that affirmative action is destructive to the cause of eliminating race from any equation...

 

[MrktMkr1986]

You realize of course that affirmative action gives people a reason to assume others based on the color their skin.

I do.

You don't have to say "it must be me they hate" but you don't have to support legislated racism either.

I made it clear in earlier posts that I do not support Affirmative Action. All I'm saying is:

Racism will not go away soon

... which is why Affirmative Action still exists.

, blargonator has effectively proven that.

Why do you keep saying he's a racist? To me, racism imply's/includes hatred towards the other races or feeling superior over another race because you are [ethnic background here]...
Stereotyping is not racism -- and believe me, I even get stereotyped by other Black people -- but that doesn't mean that they hate me or feel superior to me.

But racism is blargonator's legal right.

I guess so.

The problem with affirmative action, though, is that it supports racism and progresses it by singling out people by their skin color and treating them differently (and thus giving others a reason to treat those people basd on the color of their skin).

OK. Hypothetical situation:

You're a lobbyist and you manage to convince Congress to eliminate Executive Order 11246. No more "racism" (at least legislative racism in your words) -- but then what happens? Racism/profiling/bigotry would still exist anyway -- but I can guarentee that you wouldn't complain... mainly because it's not being aimed in your direction anymore.

Surely it is obvious that affirmative action is destructive to the cause of eliminating race from any equation...

Agreed -- surprisingly enough...

 

[Danoff]

Why do you keep saying he's a racist? To me, racism imply's/includes hatred towards the other races or feeling superior over another race because you are [ethnic background here]...
Stereotyping is not racism -- and believe me, I even get stereotyped by other Black people -- but that doesn't mean that they hate me or feel superior to me.

Stereotyping is racism. It's racist to assume things about someone else because of the color of their skin.

You're a lobbyist and you manage to convince Congress to eliminate Executive Order 11246. No more "racism" (at least legislative racism in your words) -- but then what happens? Racism/profiling/bigotry would still exist anyway -- but I can guarentee that you wouldn't complain... mainly because it's not being aimed in your direction anymore.

I'll be happy when the government, and entities that are government sponsored cannot descriminate based on race. The rest is freedom. It has nothing to do with being aimed at me or not. My wife was in a position to benefit from sexism since she was in a male dominated field. She was frustrated that it was hard for her to know whether she got the job on her merits, or if she benefited from descrimination. I may have benefited from affirmative action for women in that regard and I'm not happy about it at all. You, being black, should be the most avid opponent of affirmative action (racism). You, of all people, should not (and do not) want to get handouts because of the color of your skin and you should not want anyone else to get them either - partially because it casts a shadow of doubt on your own acheivments.

Agreed -- surprisingly enough...

If affirmative action is destructive to the cause of ending racism then you should not defend it.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Stereotyping is racism. It's racist to assume things about someone else because of the color of their skin.

That makes sense now.

I'll be happy when the government, and entities that are government sponsored cannot descriminate based on race.The rest is freedom. It has nothing to do with being aimed at me or not. My wife was in a position to benefit from sexism since she was in a male dominated field. She was frustrated that it was hard for her to know whether she got the job on her merits, or if she benefited from descrimination. I may have benefited from affirmative action for women in that regard and I'm not happy about it at all.

OK. But that still doesn't solve the problem of racism/discrimination (surely you've heard of the "glass ceiling") within the ranks.

You, being black, should be the most avid opponent of affirmative action (racism). You, of all people, should not (and do not) want to get handouts because of the color of your skin and you should not want anyone else to get them either - partially because it casts a shadow of doubt on your own acheivments.

Exactly right. I thought I made that clear, though?

If affirmative action is destructive to the cause of ending racism then you should not defend it.

I am not a proponent of affirmative action. And though I hate to have to dig up old stuff, when people make comments like:

That’s a disproportionate number of black people in prison. The reason why is largely due to african american and hispanic cultural values

...it bothers me ... which in turn, is the reason why affirmative action is not going anywhere anytime soon. In my opinion...

 

[Danoff]

But that still doesn't solve the problem of racism/discrimination (surely you've heard of the "glass ceiling") within the ranks.

"glass ceiling"? I don't think it exists in any substantial form.

...it bothers me ... which in turn, is the reason why affirmative action is not going anywhere anytime soon. In my opinion...

I explained the cultural values I was talking about. I spoke about the culture of affirmative action, a culture that promotes blame of lack of success on racism or discrimination rather than promoting personal responsibility.

Affrimative action will only cause more people to say these things that bother you, which is why it has to go away now.


You're taking a very strange stand on this issue. You've said that you don't like it - that you don't support it - and that it undermines the cause of eliminating racism... yet, for some strange reason you don't see to want it eliminated. You haven't given a good reason why that's the case either. You seem to think that some people need race based handouts - that some people are helped by racism and that that's important enough to justify it. That view is odd considering how you agree with me that affirmative action is destructive to society.

 

[blargonator]

until you actually understand how bad racism can be you just won't get it.
a short story. comments were made towards me because $20 were stolen. i was the only hispanic person in the entire class and for some reason a few people felt as if they had the word of God on their side. they blamed me for the theft and i had nothing to do with it. someone called me a "dirty mexican" and that was bad enough. i wanted to smash his face but did because i am above that. the next day the same person said he was "going to beat me up and wipe the brown off" me and that was just because of the color of my skin. racism is still common, we just don't hear about it. im willing to admit i accept most people with a grain of salt and have been around too many excessively rude and rich caucasians. I realize this is not everyone but that small minority has ruined it for me.

i still don't think you have realized every school is different. there are so many things that go on in schools. some schools have problems with gangs and violence and that would greatly affect everything. if you live in poverty obviously you will not have the same opportunities. poorly funded schools are everywhere and teachers who don't have the supplies or motivation are also in too many schools.

Slavery was what you were talking about how we destroyed the Native Americans. 1) they were taken from their land 2) they were worked to death in some cases 3) there were quite a few cases of rape 4)slaves were commonly abused 5) slaves did not profit from slavery at all while this makes me feel bad to make this comment but there were a few Native Americans that did profit.

 

[Danoff]

racism is still common

Especially in your post earlier. Not that I blame you for being racist, you've obviously been brought up in an environment (school etc.) in which you and others were led to believe that race can be used as an indicator of character. I think if you want to wipe out racism, you should start with your own thinking.

have been around too many excessively rude and rich caucasians

Why is it important that they were caucasion? Why is it important that they were rich? Why don't you just say, "I have been around too many excessively rude people."?

 

[MrktMkr1986]

"glass ceiling"? I don't think it exists in any substantial form.

Substantial or not -- that's not the point. THe fact of the matter is it exists.

I explained the cultural values I was talking about. I spoke about the culture of affirmative action, a culture that promotes blame of lack of success on racism or discrimination rather than promoting personal responsibility.

That you did -- but I still have a hard time believing. The context in which the quote was used was different.

Affrimative action will only cause more people to say these things that bother you, which is why it has to go away now.

That's a lie -- and you know it. Even if affirmative action was eliminated, there will still be racists saying the same things they were saying before Affirmative Action even existed!

You're taking a very strange stand on this issue. You've said that you don't like it - that you don't support it - and that it undermines the cause of eliminating racism... yet, for some strange reason you don't see to want it eliminated. You haven't given a good reason why that's the case either. You seem to think that some people need race based handouts - that some people are helped by racism and that that's important enough to justify it. That view is odd considering how you agree with me that affirmative action is destructive to society.

That is my belief concerning affirmative action. If we eliminate affirmative action, we do not eliminate the racist comments that people make in regard to minorities. Yet at the same time, affirmative action is not for me because as you said:

it casts a shadow of doubt on your own acheivments

along with a bunch of other reasons.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Especially in your post earlier. Not that I blame you for being racist, you've obviously been brought up in an environment (school etc.) in which you and others were led to believe that race can be used as an indicator of character. I think if you want to wipe out racism, you should start with your own thinking.

And let me guess... you were brought up differently. 💡

Why is it important that they were caucasion?

Possibly because they are a majority in this country? Just making an assumption...

 

[Danoff]

Possibly because they are a majority in this country? Just making an assumption...

Skin color, why does skin color matter? Human beings are a majority in this country.

And let me guess... you were brought up differently

Well I don't have any stories to tell like he did, but I would say that I was also brought up in an environment in which I was led to believe that skin color mattered. An environment in which people of one skin color were believed to need special handouts and help in order to compete. I've been able to see past that.

Substantial or not -- that's not the point. THe fact of the matter is it exists.

I don't believe it exists in any substantial form. You'll never eliminate all wrongdoing from the world so substantial or not is the only real metric here.

That you did -- but I still have a hard time believing. The context in which the quote was used was different.

No it wasn't. The context of the quote was the demographics of poverty and jail. I believe I was addressing that very issue.

That's a lie -- and you know it. Even if affirmative action was eliminated, there will still be racists saying the same things they were saying before Affirmative Action even existed!

I didn't say racism would be eliminated. If you read what I wrote before I said that Affirmative Action promotes racism - which is why it has to go. I worded it a little awkwardly so I can see why you misinterpreted it.

If we eliminate affirmative action, we do not eliminate the racist comments that people make in regard to minorities.

Were I to be racist against white people or purple people or whoever it is my legal right. You cannot eliminate the racist comments that people make in regard to minorities, nor is it constitutionally or legitimately justifiable to do so.

However, the governemnt, which derives its funding from all of the people in this country regardless of color, should not descriminate based on race.

 

[blargonator]

Why is it important that they were caucasion? Why is it important that they were rich? Why don't you just say, "I have been around too many excessively rude people."?

you missed the point. i do not receive racist comments from Native Americans, African Americans, or hispanics. i have only received them from rude and rich caucasians. discussing racism is very hard to have a structured discussion because everyone comes from different places with different situations.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Skin color, why does skin color matter? Human beings are a majority in this country.

That's funny...

Well I don't have any stories to tell like he did, but I would say that I was also brought up in an environment in which I was led to believe that skin color mattered. An environment in which people of one skin color were believed to need special handouts and help in order to compete. I've been able to see past that.

I'm glad to here that.

No it wasn't. The context of the quote was the demographics of poverty and jail. I believe I was addressing that very issue.

Well then explain to me -- what do "cultural values" have to with inmate demographics?

I didn't say racism would be eliminated. If you read what I wrote before I said that Affirmative Action promotes racism - which is why it has to go. I worded it a little awkwardly so I can see why you misinterpreted it.

OK.

Were I to be racist against white people or purple people or whoever it is my legal right.

If that's the case, then why is there a problem with blargonator's so-called racism?

You cannot eliminate the racist comments that people make in regard to minorities, nor is it constitutionally or legitimately justifiable to do so.

Obviously you've never been the target of racism -- so I can see why you would say something like that.

However, the governemnt, which derives its funding from all of the people in this country regardless of color, should not descriminate based on race.

Right -- we'll just leave that up to the individual...

 

[Danoff]

Right -- we'll just leave that up to the individual...

Freedom.

Obviously you've never been the target of racism -- so I can see why you would say something like that.

Freedom. I support peoples' freedom to hate me.

If that's the case, then why is there a problem with blargonator's so-called racism?

He's free to say or think what he wishes.

Well then explain to me -- what do "cultural values" have to with inmate demographics?

The culture that promotes affirmative action (victimhood), or a sense that others are privilaged beyond their merit... a culture that promotes the legitimacy of legislated (forced) assistance is one that promotes theft and (think about it for a second) violence.

i have only received them from rude and rich caucasians.

Which is significant because??? You believe that there is a correlation between their skin color or wealth and their behavior? THAT'S RACIST!!!

 

[blargonator]

yet you don't include i have not received the comments from Native Americans, African Americans, or Hispanics?
you complain about people being forced while the subject is about people being forced. slavery was obviously not something that was voluntary.
how does it promote theft or violence in any way?

I never said they were rich because they are caucasian. you simply inferred that.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Freedom. I support peoples' freedom to hate me.

Again -- you have never been a target of racism/discrimintion. That's the only reason why you're saying that. If you were ever attacked or discriminated against, believe me, you would not have this attitude.

The culture that promotes affirmative action (victimhood), or a sense that others are privilaged beyond their merit... a culture that promotes the legitimacy of legislated (forced) assistance is one that promotes theft and (think about it for a second) violence.

What makes you think that this "culture" is limited to Blacks and Hispanics why they end up in jail? And how on earth can affirmative action lead to violence? It's poverty that leads to most cases of theft and violence.

 

[Danoff]

yet you don't include i have not received the comments from Native Americans, African Americans, or Hispanics?

Yes, I get it ok? You think white people are predisposed to racism, got it! That's racist.

you complain about people being forced while the subject is about people being forced. slavery was obviously not something that was voluntary.

What? How the what does this have to huh?

I never said they were rich because they are caucasian. you simply inferred that.

Actually you implied that.


(edit: actually I misread that. The proper response is that I never said that you did. So no, I didn't infer it)

Again -- you have never been a target of racism/discrimintion. That's the only reason why you're saying that. If you were ever attacked or discriminated against, believe me, you would not have this attitude.

Don't presume to know what I would or would not do in any given circumstance. I don't believe you know me well enough to make these assumptions. The fact of the matter is that some people think things that are increadibly offensive to me (like perhaps that white people are predisposed to racism), yet I support their right to think that.

Don't ever tell me what I would think again.

What makes you think that this "culture" is limited to Blacks and Hispanics why they end up in jail? And how on earth can affirmative action lead to violence? It's poverty that leads to most cases of theft and violence.

sigh.... it isn't limited to blacks and hispanics because skin color does not dictate culture. However, blacks and hispanics are largely the beneficiaries of affirmative action, and as such are likely to suffer from the syndrome I described above that comes from victimhood.

I agree that theft and violence occurs, in large part, among the poor. However, I would submit that it is not poverty that is the cause of this, but rather a victim culture that often comes with poverty.

 

[blargonator]

edit~"Don't ever tell me what I would think again."

have you ever been a victim of racist comments? don't use one of the "attacks" from online experiences please. people don't accept racist comments as kudos so I doubt anyone would be happy.

the edit~ i realised a few seconds after posting i did not remember to quote so im putting it at the top of the post

 

[Ghost C]

edit~"Don't ever tell me what I would think again."

have you ever been a victim of racist comments? don't use one of the "attacks" from online experiences please. people don't accept racist comments as kudos so I doubt anyone would be happy.

the edit~ i realised a few seconds after posting i did not remember to quote so im putting it at the top of the post

I've been the victim of racist comments. Black people and Latinos have both called me cracker, whitey, honky, and whatever else before. Do you see me flipping out? No. Do I feel the government should give me special treatment? No.

I'm half Native American, by the way.