Affirmative Action

[Danoff]

have you ever been a victim of racist comments?

Yes, but that's beside the point isn't it?

 

[MrktMkr1986]

I've been the victim of racist comments. Black people and Latinos have both called me cracker, whitey, honky, and whatever else before.

I'm sorry to hear that. I would like to personally apologize for that...

Do you see me flipping out? No.

There's something to said about being a majority.

Do I feel the government should give me special treatment? No.

I'm half Native American, by the way.

But if you're half Native American, then you should know that reservations are tax-free. Perhaps we should eliminate that too.

 

[Ghost C]

I'm sorry to hear that. I would like to personally apologize for that...

No need. I realize there are some people who are going to make racist comments, no matter what race they are, and then there are the smart people.

There's something to said about being a majority.

What's that mean?

But if you're half Native American, then you should know that reservations are tax-free. Perhaps we should eliminate that too.

Go for it. I've never actually "taken advantage" of any of the benefits of being NA.

 

[blargonator]

I've been the victim of racist comments. Black people and Latinos have both called me cracker, whitey, honky, and whatever else before. Do you see me flipping out? No. Do I feel the government should give me special treatment? No.

I'm half Native American, by the way.

if you are you can take advantage of so many things. you don't have to but you still have the opportunites like paid tuition in certain schools.

there is a point because most people who have realize that it is still going on and racism effects many people on many levels.
ghost C- sorry to hear about that.
not being a majority totally changes things.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Don't presume to know what I would or would not do in any given circumstance. I don't believe you know me well enough to make these assumptions. The fact of the matter is that some people think things that are increadibly offensive to me (like perhaps that white people are predisposed to racism), yet I support their right to think that.

Don't ever tell me what I would think again.

Freedom.

sigh.... it isn't limited to blacks and hispanics because skin color does not dictate culture. However, blacks and hispanics are largely the beneficiaries of affirmative action, and as such are likely to suffer from the syndrome I described above that comes from victimhood.

Just making sure we're on the same wavelength... that's all.

I agree that theft and violence occurs, in large part, among the poor. However, I would submit that it is not poverty that is the cause of this, but rather a victim culture that often comes with poverty.

The main questions are: What causes poverty? Why are some poorer than others? Why are minorities paid less for similar jobs? Yet another reason why affirmative action still exists... not that I'm advocating it, just stating my belief.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

What's that mean?

It was a misquote... disregard it.

Go for it. I've never actually "taken advantage" of any of the benefits of being NA.

That's good to hear.

 

[Ten]

Someone fixed the topic title! NO!!!!

Call me old fashioned, but I feel that if you're going to live here, you need to pull your own weight - one way or another. It's just lame as hell that I have to go to college for 6 or so years, hopefully graduate, then spend however long it takes looking for the job I went to school for.

Some poor guy from another country waltzes in ahead of me, and is hired on the spot because he's foriegn. Or black. Or hispanic. Or whatever.

I'm sorry, beneficial as this may be to minorities, is this not obvious racism?

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Someone fixed the topic title! NO!!!!

Why is that a bad thing?

Call me old fashioned, but I feel that if you're going to live here, you need to pull your own weight - one way or another.

Old fashioned.

It's just lame as hell that I have to go to college for 6 or so years, hopefully graduate, then spend however long it takes looking for the job I went to school for.

Some poor guy from another country waltzes in ahead of me, and is hired on the spot because he's foriegn. Or black. Or hispanic. Or whatever.

I'm sorry, beneficial as this may be to minorities, is this not obvious racism?

Agreed. It is racism. How would you suggest we counter racism/"the glass ceiling"/salary differences/discrimination/etc. in the workplace (assuming Affirmative Action did not exist)? -- by the way, this question is not directed to only you, Ten. I want everyone's opinion on the matter. Seeing as how "affirmative action" is legalized racism, how about some solutions for "non-legalized" racism...

 

[Danoff]

Freedom.

Sure, you have the freedom to tell me what I would think. I won't lobby to restrict that freedom legally either. That doesn't mean can't tell you not to say that.

The main questions are: What causes poverty? Why are some poorer than others? Why are minorities paid less for similar jobs? Yet another reason why affirmative action still exists... not that I'm advocating it, just stating my belief.

What causes poverty? Lack of education. What causes lack of education? Lack of cultural values in education. What causes lack of cultural values in education? Victimhood and lack of personal responsibility. What is one example of something that promotes that? Affirmative action.

not being a majority totally changes things.

You're part of the same majority I am, human. I'm part of a minority, Americans. You may be part of a majority, poor... or a minority, rich.

You mean not being white changes things, and you're living in the past.

 

[Danoff]

How would you suggest we counter racism/"the glass ceiling"/salary differences/discrimination/etc. in the workplace

A start would be to eliminate the use of race as an indicator of circumstance, character or quality. That means the elimination of affirmative action.

One of the biggest challenges will be to eliminate racism among minorities. They seem to think that because they are part of a minority that they can be racist. At least racist white people try to hide from the public spotlight. Racist minorities are in mainstream media spouting their racist message and hurting their cause in the process. Blargonator's racism is a good example of this.

Seeing as how "affirmative action" is legalized racism, how about some solutions for "non-legalized" racism...

Time is the only solution. Time and for as many people as possible to voluntarily stop referring to skin color altogther.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

What causes poverty? Lack of education. What causes lack of education? Lack of cultural values in education. What causes lack of cultural values in education? Victimhood and lack of personal responsibility. What is one example of something that promotes that? Affirmative action.

I didn't hear you mention anything about eugenics or segregation...

You're part of the same majority I am, human.

You know exactly what he means by majority...

I'm part of a minority, Americans. You may be part of a majority, poor... or a minority, rich.

Nice twist -- but he's not talking about his birth country, or financial status.

You mean not being white changes things, and you're living in the past.

It's the truth. And no, I'm not living in the past.

 

[PS]

You have missed my point completely.

I'm saying I had the advantage of a better situation. I didnt have to work harder.
I didn't have to be smarter. I had a head start based on things not of my doing. I am no better nor smarter than anyone (except this guy Chuck, that I work with. We are all smarter than Chuck) to deny that I benefited from my situation is foolish.

I fear I have become to preachy. That was never my intent.

Oooh ok. The way it was worded however, and given the recent events, it sounded as though you were born into some sort of advanced education or something like that. 👍

...less-experienced teachers than white students.

____Really? I've noticed lately that almost every teacher I've had this year is under thirty. My science teacher won't reveal her age (somewhere between 26-28), my second math teacher was 26 (who also knows my next-door neighbour who used to babysit me), my first math teacher was 28, my gym teacher was 27, and basically most of the academic courses (as opposed to tech or physical ones) I had, were with young teachers. The oldest teachers I had were in French, Auto, Manufacturing and basic Tech. The French teacher was like 70 something, or at least he looked like it. He looked like a mix between Larry King and Hannibal Lecter. He was very old-school -- he taught my aunt Lorrie who turns 50 this year. He also seemd to think that neanderthal's were around in the same era that the dinosaurs were, and claims that it can't be proven with fact, but only with common sense. It seems once again, common sense may not be so common after all. Famine could sure back that up.
____As for the quality of my education, many of the students in the math class had poor marks with these young teachers. After most of the class had a sub-passing grade, I took summer school. Although I had a 2.12 math average, I wasn't particularily happy with that and thus took Math in the summer. I got a woman who was in her mid-late 40's, and I came out of the course with a 93. Same goes for this year, only the teacher is younger and I got an even worse grade. And not to mention the fact his wife kept having hissy fits or something (babies, hissy fits, hair appointments...who knows) we were always getting substitutes and thus took extra long to go back, recap, fil the teacher in, start a new lesson, and all that stuff over and over. It was ridiculous. Our class had...one asian guy I think. Other than that we were pretty much white, and almost the whole class had a sub-standard mark. I think that goes to show how essential it is to find an unbiased, experienced teacher that is capable of making 30 students understand the concept of parabolic structures (sp?) and trigonometry. 👎

 

[Danoff]

I didn't hear you mention anything about eugenics or segregation...

Oh, I thought you were talking about today.

You know exactly what he means by majority...

Yup, and it's arbitrary.

It's the truth. And no, I'm not living in the past.

99% of the racism that I have seen take place anywhere under any cirumstances or has been spoken to me by others has been by minorities. That's the face of the present. The face of the present is a black secretary of state (who I think should run for president). The face of the present is the "leaders" of the black community not shutting up about how important their skin color is. That's today's racism and it's just as destructive as ever (minus the secretary of state part because she rules).

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Oh, I thought you were talking about today.

I am talking about today -- and more specifically, where I live (and L.A. as well).

99% of the racism that I have seen take place anywhere under any cirumstances or has been spoken to me by others has been by minorities.

That's unfortunate. I apologize for this...

That's the face of the present.

Perhaps...

The face of the present is a black secretary of state (who I think should run for president).

That's cool.
However, thanks to "non-legalized" racism, that's not happening anytime soon.

The face of the present is the "leaders" of the black community not shutting up about how important their skin color is. That's today's racism and it's just as destructive as ever.

Why would you put leaders in quotes? What exactly are you trying to imply? Why is Black history month the shortest month of the year?

 

[Famine]

It is my opinion that anything which draws attention to a fellow human being by way of their ethnicity is fundamentally racist.

Skin colour is irrelevant. A person is a person.

 

[Ghost C]

Why is Black history month the shortest month of the year?

Are you ****ting me? Why is there a black history month in the first place? You can't fit all of the historically important events of, or for, black people into one month.

Why is there no white history month at all?

 

[Ten]

1: Why is that a bad thing?

2: Agreed. It is racism. How would you suggest we counter racism/"the glass ceiling"/salary differences/discrimination/etc. in the workplace (assuming Affirmative Action did not exist)? -- by the way, this question is not directed to only you, Ten. I want everyone's opinion on the matter. Seeing as how "affirmative action" is legalized racism, how about some solutions for "non-legalized" racism...

1: It was funny to see people seriously debate a topic that was incorrectly spelled. I dunno... /shrug

2: I understand completely. ^^

I can't really say where we should start, without really repeating most of what's been said since you posted the question. If it's one thing I know, it's that it's more American to b*tch about my problem than it is to do something about it.

But seriously...oh damn...what was I saying again? I kind of backed myself into a corner here! Presenting a point with no solution is sort of...I can't think of a word.

Forget it. I'll get back to you on this.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Are you ****ting me? Why is there a black history month in the first place? You can't fit all of the historically important events of, or for, black people into one month.

Why is there no white history month at all?

It started out as a joke -- and just as I was about to edit the post and write "j/k" I saw your post.

First of all, Black History Month is one way to eliminate non-legalized racism and bigotry.

Read this article.

Why is there no White history month? Because most of what we learn in school is about White history.

I am aware that all of the historically important events of, or for, Black people cannot fit in one month -- which is exactly why I asked the question (even though it was joke).

Warning: Be very careful about what you say and how you say it.

 

[Ghost C]

Why is there no White history month? Because most of what we learn in school is about White history.

I hear that alot in response as to why there's no white history month, which is funny because as far as I know, there has been just as much black history made in the past century or so than white history - Probably more.

I am aware that all of the historically important events of, or for, Black people cannot fit in one month -- which is exactly why I asked the question (even though it was joke).

I see, then.

Warning: Be very careful about what you say and how you say it.

Why? If people get mad over what I say, it's their problem. I'm not racist, I was merely asking a question.

 

[Famine]

Why is there no White history month? Because most of what we learn in school is about White history.

You can't be serious. Can you?

Everything from the ascent of man around about 260,000 years ago, up until the mid-1000s BC was exclusively "Black history". Much of the stuff from then up until the early 100s BC was mostly "Black history" too, as the Celts, Picts, Vikings and Saxons weren't particularly known for keeping extensive records.

Seriously though. What the **** IS "Black History" - or "White History" - for that matter?

I can only think of a few instances where the two groups have had periods of history which have had different impacts on them - The Slave Trade, the Crusades, British Colonial Imperialism (especially the Raj).

Nonetheless, we're all human. What has gone before is ALL of our history, whether we're white, black, Hispanic or Inuit. Trying to separate "Our" history from "Their" history is also fundamentally racist.

 

[PS]

Why not have a gay history month? or an asian history month? The gay history month could be in june, and the asian history month would be in february!

And isn't black history month in the fall? Like september/october? Because if it is, I can of think of a shorter month...and it already belongs to the asians.

[edit]excellent point, Famine. I think we should eliminate any form of bringing more attention to any one race. Unfortunately Dave Chapelle would no longer be on the air if that were to happen.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Did any of you even bother to read the article?

To Famine: even if what you say were true, I don't remember hearing anything about that... perhaps your schools have better funding than mine... or maybe its a conspiracy! j/k

 

[blargonator]

Unfortunately Dave Chapelle would no longer be on the air if that were to happen.

blasphemy <8- P
speaking of gay history in general. I don't really know about any gay history. seems like it would be a interesting topic to learn about.

im going to print off the article and read it during 💡 lunch

famine~"Nonetheless, we're all human. What has gone before is ALL of our history, whether we're white, black, Hispanic or Inuit." 👍

 

[Danoff]

A quote from the article MrktMkr linked

By questioning the relevance of Black History Month, people are questioning the value of African-Americans' contributions to society and their accomplishments throughout the years.

Not necessarily. When I question the relevance of Black history month, I question the fact that it is a racist practice. It will do nothing to end racism, quite the opposite - black history month is part of the problem. Anything that singles out a group of people based on the color of their skin is part of the problem because it implies that there is something fundamental about skin color that it should be categorized.

Black History Month = Continuing Racism
Black Pride = Continuing Racism
Affirmative Action = Continuing (legislated) Racism

If you don't believe me imagine if the word black were replace with the word white.

White History Month = Continuing Racism
White Pride = Continuing Racism
Affirmative Action (for white people) would be = Continuing (legislated) Racism.

First of all, Black History Month is one way to eliminate non-legalized racism and bigotry.

Wrong answer. Black History Month is one way to propagate non-legalized racism and bigotry.

Why would you put leaders in quotes? What exactly are you trying to imply?

I'm implying that some would argue that these people are not actually leaders of anyone. I was merely recognizing that it isn't a well established category.

 

[Duke]

First off, "ditto" to Famine's post above (and NO, I'm not a dittohead).

The author of that article needs to learn about Sidney Poitier. Mr. Poitier was a black actor from the mid-'50s and '60s, and an excellent one at that. His method of overcoming racism was this: he would not take any role that required him to be black.

That's it! Perfection. He didn't try to overcome racism by making whatever stereotypical movies about the black inner-city experience, or that 'celebrated' the difference between black culture and white culture, or that sought to exploit the black market or even that 'featured' a lot of ho's and bling, yo.

He decided that the way to end racism was to insist that people judge him on his merits as an actor alone. That's all. That's the real way to do it.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

First off, "ditto" to Famine's post above (and NO, I'm not a dittohead).

The author of that article needs to learn about Sidney Poitier. Mr. Poitier was a black actor from the mid-'50s and '60s, and an excellent one at that. His method of overcoming racism was this: he would not take any role that required him to be black.

That's it! Perfection. He didn't try to overcome racism by making whatever stereotypical movies about the black inner-city experience, or that 'celebrated' the difference between black culture and white culture, or that sought to exploit the black market or even that 'featured' a lot of ho's and bling, yo.

He decided that the way to end racism was to insist that people judge him on his merits as an actor alone. That's all. That's the real way to do it.

Speaking of Mr. Poitier, did any of you see the movie "A Raisin in the Sun"? Excellent movie -- my favorite movie actually (of the 60's).

Though, again, I am not a proponent of Affirmative Action, I don't think its going to be eliminated. My city is still suffering from the effects of de facto segregation. Here's an interesting link. There also plenty of other links on the subject. Just do a Google search on my hometown and segregation and see what comes up.

EDIT: I also saw this -- makes for an interesting read (about Yonkers & segregation).

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Black History Month = Continuing Racism
Black Pride = Continuing Racism
Affirmative Action = Continuing (legislated) Racism

If you don't believe me imagine if the word black were replace with the word white.

White History Month = Continuing Racism
White Pride = Continuing Racism
Affirmative Action (for white people) would be = Continuing (legislated) Racism.

In response to what I said about Black History Month you said:

Wrong answer. Black History Month is one way to propagate non-legalized racism and bigotry.

They don't seem to think so...

 

[PS]

This thread is ridiculous. Danoff, you're getting out of hand. You're claiming everything to be racist. If I were to simply say "I'm white." you'd be the first to say "OMFG!!!!@!!1 rACIST1!!!!!!" Racism does not entail bringing a point out, but making a decision based on ones skin colour. You can go on and on about the fact someone is white, black, brown pink or purple but it wouldn't be racist unless you actually made a decision based upon their skin colour. this is where we draw the line. We start making decisions solely upon a persons' ability to do things, and not because they should have slack cut for them because they came from a rough neighbourhood, or are a majority. this is where it must end, because if Danoff and Brian keep having their little catfights then it will be the same redundant incessant arguing as the past 2 pages- cut it out. The bottom line is, Danoff, that racism can and will continue to happen, and you being someone to keep calling everyone a racist is not helping. That's just ingorant. And Brian, please be patient with him, he thinks everyone is racist.

 

[Sage]

Racism does not entail bringing a point out, but making a decision based on ones skin colour.

Oh gawd, don't you see – that's danoff's whole point! When you let a minority student go to a college with a lower SAT or whatever than what white students are required, that's racism against white students. And that is what affirmative action is: Making a decision based on one's skin color.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Oh gawd, don't you see – that's danoff's whole point! When you let a minority student go to a college with a lower SAT or whatever than what white students are required, that's racism against white students. And that is what affirmative action is: Making a decision based on one's skin color.

But if that's the case, how is Black History Month racist? That's the point I think Greg was trying to make.