Affirmative Action
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Famine
Interesting...
Black History Month and Affirmative Action are not going anywhere anytime soon -- racist or not. I believe this because of the discrimination that minorities still endure today. Apparently the logic seems to be"fight racism with racism".
Also, I suggest you (that's a general "you" not specifically you, Famine...) read the links that I provided in my earlier post.
Sage
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Because it supports racial separation. And as Famine noted, for the same reason White History Month would never make it. It's one thing to celebrate culture it's a whole 'nuther thing to celebrate skin color. Why don't we celebrate eye color and nose size while we're at it?MrktMkr1986
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Sage
Black History Month is not about skin color -- it is about the history of Black culture.
White History Month on the other hand would not make sense because White people come from various backgrounds. So what an Italian might be proud of, an Irishman might not really care. Black people on the other hand share a common history/culture.
Also, is it discrimination to have a St. Patricks Day parade? Is it racist to have Italian-American Day parade in Yonkers? I don't think so...
Also BHM does not support racial separation because its intent is to open people to new ideas -- the more one knows about a particular culture the more tolerant they'll be.
EDIT: Also, I'm surprised that everyone has something to say about Black History Month and affirmative action -- but when comments like:
No one has anything to say about that...
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SageWell, why "Black" history, and not "African-American" history? I think that'd resolve a lot of our arguing.
So do I.
But I think the reason why they won't do that is because there are plenty of Black people who wouldn't consider themselves "African-American".
PS
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I've never actually seen it, but wouldn't it also include revolutionary blacks who weren't from the USA? Like, those in Africa or Haiti, Jamaica etc? Like, wasn't Nelson Mandella from South Africa? It only seems fitting to have included all blacks in black history month, otherwise that's just ignorant.
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PS
Excellent point.
The only possible reason why it doesn't appear as if Black History Month is celebrated in other countries (i.e. South Africa, Haiti, Jamaica etc.) is because these countries are predominantly Black...
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PS
That makes sense -- but I refuse to believe that affirmative action and Black History Month are racist.
Danoff
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I think this is funny.
So is this next one because it misses the top two (by the way MrktMkr I agree with you on the next quote but it doesn't prove your point).
But this next one is not funny at all...
I thought we agreed on this already. Anything that, as PS put it, makes a decision based on skin color is racist. You just don't want to call it that because you don't like the word racist and you think that this is "positive" racism (as PS put it) as if that could possibly exist.
Either you read my posts and just didn't understand them, or you didn't read them at all. Either way you didn't get my point.
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danoff
I wasn't joking -- I thought I proved the point with the whole Irish / Italian background example.
Glad we can agree on something.
We did, but I changed my mind -- and you are correct when you say:
Did you get the opportunity (pun intended...
) to read the links I provided in the earlier post. You'll see exactly why I changed my mind about the concept of:
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danoff
Several factors:
*de facto segregation -- Yonkers
*racism/intolerance/discrimination -- existance of KKK and other hate groups; disproportionate salaries based on race
*eugenics -- Bell Curve & other factors
You have to fight fire with fire.
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Are you seriously suggesting that the above factors will slowly disappear if we eliminate Affirmative Action?
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danoff
Even if AA is unjust, how is segregation "better" without it? How are racism and eugenics "better" without it? I fail to see the logic...
Danoff
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Because Affirmative Action promotes racism.
It doesn't serve the people it proports to help because it encourages others to think of these people as needy or as having gotten something they didn't deserve. It casts a shadow of doubt over all of the people AA is supposed to help, doubt about their abilities based soley on race - exactly what AA is supposed to get rid of.
It is unjust to give someone something based on the color of their skin, regardless of the color.
So it's unjust, and it doesn't even help in the ways that it claims.
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Afirmative action is just another symptom. Find the " cure " for racism and you wont have one segment of society thinking that another cant be successfull without tilting the playing field in thier favor. Make no mistake , I was born in Yonkers and grew up in South Philly...I have seen riots over segragation and beat downs for WWB through the nieghborhood. I still see blatant racism today although not as much from the last two or three generations. Maybe a bunch of white kids wanting to be be Rap stars is a good thing ? It must be something in human nature to think your crowd is inherently better than the others. Ask the Jews they have been the "others" throughout history and could most likely give you a great perspective on racial hate..but I see no Jewish affirmative action ( unless you count Hollywood ) .
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ledhed
I'm from Yonkers!
Anyway, again I'm not a proponent of affirmative action. I just don't see how eliminating it is going to help eliminate:
*eugenics
*de facto segregation
*racism/discrimination/intolerance
Danoff, I'm still waiting for a real answer other than "Affirmative Action promotes racism and will make the above 3 (
) topics worse." The real question that needs to be answered is why the above 3 topics even existed in the first place. All 3 of those factors have been around long before Affirmative Action -- so if there is anything we need to eliminate first, it's the above 3. How would you go about doing that? Or, what steps do you think need to be taken (other than eliminating affirmative action) in order to make sure the above 3 "factors" disappear?
PS
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Brian, I looked up "glass ceiling". Just to clarify with people, the "glass ceiling" is a metaphor for how women were indescriminatly promoted in businesses, but as as soon as they got to a moderate position, it was as though they just could NOT (as in NOT AT ALL) move up the corporate ladder- like a glass ceiling. They could have been the hardest working people in the business/coporation and no matter what, they would not be promoted. This may have been the case with the blacks (I have no idea whether it did or not), but it's a valid point, indeed.
I know you were entirely serious, it's just that you didn't get the analogy bang-on. If you were to use the "Irish/Italian/whatever : something" analogy to something : black people, it would have to be either "Irish/Italian : cambodian/jamaican", or asian/white/native : black people. It should be race to race, creed to creed, origin to origin. It's like interspecies mating- it just doesn't work.
MrktMlr1986
I know you were entirely serious, it's just that you didn't get the analogy bang-on. If you were to use the "Irish/Italian/whatever : something" analogy to something : black people, it would have to be either "Irish/Italian : cambodian/jamaican", or asian/white/native : black people. It should be race to race, creed to creed, origin to origin. It's like interspecies mating- it just doesn't work.
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PS
Yes -- from what I've learned, the glass ceiling has also been applied to Black people.
I know you were entirely serious, it's just that you didn't get the analogy bang-on. If you were to use the "Irish/Italian/whatever : something" analogy to something : black people, it would have to be either "Irish/Italian : cambodian/jamaican", or asian/white/native : black people. It should be race to race, creed to creed, origin to origin. It's like interspecies mating- it just doesn't work.
💡
I get it now. Thanks for the clarification.
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PS
I agree. The fact is though, those 3 things I mentioned above still exist today, and I don't see how the elimination of affirmative action is going to eliminate those other factors -- especially because they were around a lot longer than affirmative action.
PS
(Banned)
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ahahaha, in your signature Famine, SCJ is talking to me.
Anyway, I don't see why people ever have anything "out" for a person of another race. I mean, I think it's ok to make racial jokes as long as noone who could be offended by them hears them, and I have no problem with white jokes or black jokes (ND4SPD has filled my mind with them
), so it seems to me that acceptance must be a cultural thing. I haven't personally met a racist in my life and I hope I never do...
Anyway, I don't see why people ever have anything "out" for a person of another race. I mean, I think it's ok to make racial jokes as long as noone who could be offended by them hears them, and I have no problem with white jokes or black jokes (ND4SPD has filled my mind with them
), so it seems to me that acceptance must be a cultural thing. I haven't personally met a racist in my life and I hope I never do...
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Famine
I strongly disagree because the other factors were around long before affirmative action came into existance. I believe affirmative action (as messed up as it is), was designed to help counter the destructive nature of the aforementioned factors...
The way I see it -- we eliminate the root of the problem (which logically cannot be affirmative action as it came afterwards) and then abolish affirmative action.
- 3,425
Affirmative action was put in place to promote the hiring of minoritys . often many places wouldnt even consider the hiring of blacks..PERIOD. no matter what qualifications . The practice was wide spread and institutionalized. It was felt that no one would voluntarily change their hiring practices. So the government in the interest of a better ...mmmmmm " society " felt that they should force the issue by setting quotas for minority hiring. When the pool of potential hires was found to be too small the system of affirmative action as we know it today was put in place so that even less qualified minoritys could be used to meet hiring quotas at the expense of the better qualified "majority " . Ditto with education .
Is it fair ? Nope . The better question is ; How could it be accomplished in those times without government intervention ? IMO the days of affirmative action should be dead and buried as they have gone way past the time when they could be justified.
Is it fair ? Nope . The better question is ; How could it be accomplished in those times without government intervention ? IMO the days of affirmative action should be dead and buried as they have gone way past the time when they could be justified.
