The Xbox One Thread - One X & One SXBOne 

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Robin

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Detailed system specs to follow when known (probably after release when someone takes it apart).

The original thread post below,

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A few articles have been put up today apparently after receiving some insider info from Microsoft. Seems like its getting closer and closer and we might even get a some sort of hint from MS as early as TGS and a concept at E3 2012.

Codename: Obed. That’s what Microsoft is allegedly calling the next Xbox chip. Rumors are swirling outside of Redmond that they’ve finalized a design of the next Xbox 360 processor.

Obed is said to be a System on a Chip (SoC) with CPU+GPU and eDRAM developed in part with IBM and AMD. Despite the rumors that the next chip will be based on AMD’s x86 bulldozer design, given the involvement of IBM, it’s more than likely that Obed will be based on the PowerPC architecture, as with the 360′s Xenon processor.

The CPU+GPU or GPGPU (General Purpose computing on Graphics Processing Unit) design is similar to the approach Intel took with their Larrabee architecture. SoCs allow for less latency between components, lower power usage, and higher yields in production, but in the past has been relegated to embedded systems since you couldn’t fit that much computing power on a single chip.

If all the rumors are true, then full scale production of the new chip may start the end of 2012, assuming the prototypes survive the engineering evaluations currently scheduled for Q1 2012. If that’s the case, we might well be hearing about a new Xbox at next year’s E3.
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It is mating season for the singing moles of Redmond, fresh off their migration back from Mountain View, and they are singing about the XBox Next chip. What’s more, they have a name and a date.

The moles are cooing the name softly while they think up new ways to transition Microsoft’s business model from monopoly abuse to patent trolling. The name they are singing in their tunnels sounds like “Obed”, but the spelling might be a bit off due to echoing in the tunnels.

Obed it seems is SoC, CPU + GPU, and of course eDRAM, it sounds an awful lot like an evolutionary version of the current XBox 360 chip. Some say it is an x86/Bulldozer part, but everything we have been hearing for a long time says that the chip is going to be a PPC variant. In any case, the GPU is definitely made by AMD/ATI, and IBM has a big hand in the SoC design.

The moles all say that production is set for late 2012, possibly the early days of 2013. basically once the moles get settled in to Mountain View for the winter. They will give the thumps up or down on silicon based on parts they get back in Q1 of 2012. If all goes well that is. That puts production of the XBox Next in the late spring or early summer of 2013, just in time for singing mole mating season. Nothing gets a sow’s attention like a new SoC
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Robin.
 
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nick09
At the least the codename sounds lame and odd. I mean, really "obed"?
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Because that's relevant, right? :rolleyes:
Also, I guess they chose it for reason.

Anyways, production starting by the end of 2012 or beginning of 2013 sounds like the Nextbox isn't that far away anymore... Should be interesting.
 
So, after recent rumours that claimed that both the PS4 and the next Xbox, which is internally known by the name 'Durango', would settle for relatively weak hardware in order to keep production costs low, some new rumours surfaced. According to the print magazin 'Xbox World', it seems that technical details on the Durango's hardware have been revealed, or at least that of its devkits.

Not only is that an indication that the Durango might very well be ready for a launch in 2013, no, it's claimed that the console is running a graphics chip that's roughly on par with AMD's Radeon HD7000 series, which isn't very suprising. That rumour has been around for quite a while. The interesting news, however, is that the Dorango supposedly boats a 16-core IBM PowerPC CPU, which has been described as 'ridicuously powerful'.

Sources can be found easily by googling, and here's one for those who prefer not to :D

Now, what do you guys think of this? Personally, I'm a bit torn. I was actually hoping that the next generation of consoles wouldn't be getting that pricey, but if the rumours around the PS4/Orbis turn out to be true, we might be looking at a rather big difference in terms of processing power and strategy between Sony's and Microsoft's respective consoles. Granted, after years of financial losses, it is to be expected that MS is more willing and able to take the initial losses of selling a highly powerful console at lower prices, but it still is a bit suprising. But getting the console with the notably better performance might still be quite tempting...

Also, what do ypu think will be the outcome of the next generation of the console war? Provided that Sony really does stick with a relatively cheap but weak console, will that strengthen Microsofts position on the home console market?

Lots of questions at the moment, but it might be for the better. That way, we might end up with three consoles following three different philosophies in design, pricing and available software.
 
The Xbox360 runs three cores, if I'm not mistaken. And the PS3 is a bit different, as its CPU has only one actualy core and seven additional SKUs that aid the main core. You could call it an eight core processor, but that'd be a massively misleading.

Just for comparison's sake, Intel's most powerful Core i7 CPUs are using six cores. Suffice to say, 'ridicuously powerful' seems like a very realistic assessment.
 
WII-U: If not noticably stronger than current-gen, then I hope Nintendo will burn and crash. But not gonna happen, not with the money they generated especially through the DS and Wii. And there's the critical point, they have HUGE amounts of money and could afford it to built a true monster next-gen system (even with their gimmicky controler stuff) for the more serious gamers IN ORDER to please their custumers (the gamers), but they rather choose to please soccer mums instead. (I know it's business but it still pisses me of)

PS4: If tech is about 30-60% of what the Nextbox can do, that's hard but probably really necessary considering in what financial situation Sony is in right now, and will be.

Nextbox (Xbox 720, Durango or whatever): If it's monster I may even buy it, would be my first Xbox. Would buy it alone for Forza (considering it would actually use the far more advanced hardware properly). Then there would be potential exclusives or even new iterations of other awesome serieses like PGR, God I loved these games. And then there are the possibly much better multi-plats. In that case, the PS4 would almost only be for GT, maybe some exclusives, well, that is actually the case with my PS3 now.
 
As someone who has all 3 consoles in my home I will not be getting all 3 next time around.

My son will probably have Wii u for Christmas.
That leaves either the PS 4 or Xbox 3.
Now I've read many posts about how I bought a PS3 for GT. I'm a person who likes the racing genre. Will I be buying a PS4 for GT6? No chance. History dictates that T10 have improved every version. PD are up and down and I'm not prepared to gamble.

Only one other circumstance can play an important factor. Wheel compatibility. Im not confident about Xbox allowing previous control systems to work. It's got Kinnect 2 built in as not to piss off kinect owners. If my Fanatec gets crippled I'm pretty certain PS will run it.
 
I don't see the 720's rumored 16-core CPU or dual GPU set-up becoming reality, too many factors against it.

Integrated updated Kinect functionality.....I don't want that.

MS's 1st party companies need to do a better job with the hardware and games than they did with the 360 in my opinion.

Bottomline: I hope the Big 3 learn from their past mistakes.
 
To me this consoles producers have old ideas. They need to change their mind if they wanna change their business. People need freedom, new ideas, new stuff, need to get hyped and not trolled. A console in 2014 cannot longer be just "insert disk/play/turn off".
They have to develop some apps for it, let's say a simplified 3D editor or an improved track editor, a video editor, a simplefied (but not crappy) music programm, why not? Things like that. Why selling only games? Vidzone and a couple of films it's all you can do? Seriously?
Imho consoles cannot longer be single task machines. If you develop good, easy to use applications I'm sure there's a market for it. People would love to buy features AND simplicity.

Console devs should ask themselves: Why people should buy new consoles when in a couple of years you could buy powerful laptops for gaming, at almost the same price, with the advantage of having a multitask machine?
 
As for the used game lockout rumors surrounding both the X720 and PS4, it doesn't bother me, as i don't buy used games, but it is understandable how many gamers aren't happy about this.

I'm interested in the amount/type of RAM these newer systems have. The media seems to only focus on the GPU and CPU, which are important, but the amount/type of RAM across the board is just as important.

Message to Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony: RAM IS ALSO IMPORTANT!

Also, about the controllers for both newer MS/Sony systems. Pressure sensitive face buttons with the same layout and design for the X720 and the same layout and design for the PS4 would do nicely for me.
 
Ddrizle
Integrated updated Kinect functionality.....I don't want that.
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I really want that, if Sony literally doesn't do a clone of it its likely to be a deal breaker for me (or go to PC). Its the most innovative piece of kit to enter gaming in a decade.

From all the rumours so far it seems likely that both the next gen consoles are going to be evenly matched again :ouch: Meaning more terrible ports between one and another.

I swear the companies do this on purpose, probably to keeps dev's happy otherwise if one was much better than the other they would have to make to very separate versions (like with the PS2 and original Xbox) which in modern games would be extremely time consuming.
 
Robin.
I really want that, if Sony literally doesn't do a clone of it its likely to be a deal breaker for me (or go to PC). Its the most innovative piece of kit to enter gaming in a decade.

From all the rumours so far it seems likely that both the next gen consoles are going to be evenly matched again :ouch: Meaning more terrible ports between one and another.

I swear the companies do this on purpose, probably to keeps dev's happy otherwise if one was much better than the other they would have to make to very separate versions (like with the PS2 and original Xbox) which in modern games would be extremely time consuming.
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No more time consuming than codding the PS3 I would assume from what I read.
 
Robin.
I really want that, if Sony literally doesn't do a clone of it its likely to be a deal breaker for me (or go to PC). Its the most innovative piece of kit to enter gaming in a decade.
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I'm also of the opinion that it Kinect needs to be explored more. Problem is that for the most part we have only really seen dance games utilize when in reality it has a lot of potential for normal games to help with immersion. Steel Battalion Heavy Armor looks to be exploring these possibilities while letting me sit on my lazy arse and enjoy games from the comfort of my couch.

Regarding the rumor mill, I've heard plenty of stories about what Microsoft will deliver but non of which seem to be from any sort of credible source ie. Microsoft employees.

I would be disappointed if they did take the route of locking used games. It feels like a slap in the face to consumers. But considering the success of iTunes and Steam, I guess it's probably inevitable that consoles would follow suit.
 
Ddrizle
I don't see the 720's rumored 16-core CPU or dual GPU set-up becoming reality, too many factors against it.
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And what would those factors be? If anything, one-upping the competition while MS has the chance seems like a smart move... And the kind of move I'd expect from them, as well.
Ddrizle
Bottomline: I hope the Big 3 learn from their past mistakes.
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What mistakes? Nintendo never made a mistake with the Wii. It's what got them back on track after the GameCube. Microsoft increased its market share by a huge margin within this generation after bein severly outclassed by the PS. From the big three, there's only one company that has done a lot worse during this generation than the last and has been in financial turmoil while the other two are enjoying insane revenues.
Robin.
I really want that, if Sony literally doesn't do a clone of it its likely to be a deal breaker for me (or go to PC). Its the most innovative piece of kit to enter gaming in a decade.
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I'm not a big supporter of what Kinect has been used for in the past, but I agree with that. People are claiming that the developers need new ideas, and Kinect is exactly that. There's a lot of innovative design space to be explored there.
 
Luminis
And what would those factors be? If anything, one-upping the competition while MS has the chance seems like a smart move... And the kind of move I'd expect from them, as well.
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Production costs and heat being the major concerns. Doubtful that MS wants another ring fiasco, but I could be wrong. Besides, it seems the whole ring fiasco has been swept under the rug as if it never happened so again, I could be wrong.

What mistakes? Nintendo never made a mistake with the Wii. It's what got them back on track after the GameCube. Microsoft increased its market share by a huge margin within this generation after bein severly outclassed by the PS. From the big three, there's only one company that has done a lot worse during this generation than the last and has been in financial turmoil while the other two are enjoying insane revenues.
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Their still off track as far as games are concerned, but that's me. Nintendo's 3rd party support is abysmal(mistake #1)compared to the others. This is also due to the systems underpowered(compared to the others) architecture(mistake #2). I hope this time around their talk of having better 3rd party support is not just talk, they've stated the same thing back when the N64 came around and here we are today with the Wii still behind in 3rd party support. I'm sure sales will be just fine for the Wii U, but I don't play sales, I play games, games other than 1st party, something that Nintendo's systems have lacked in my opinion. I do enjoy Nintendo's 1st party games, just not as much as others. Microsofts ring fiasco and Kinects poor games speak for themselves in my opinion. Sony has been in the red since the launch of PS3.

I'm not a big supporter of what Kinect has been used for in the past, but I agree with that. People are claiming that the developers need new ideas, and Kinect is exactly that. There's a lot of innovative design space to be explored there.
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I'm not a fan of motion gaming/gimmicks. Sure it's a new way to play, but from what I've seen so far from all companies, it doesn't interest me in the slightest. Sales prove that motion gaming is most likely here to stay, but for me it's just more production costs for hardware/software and companies not knowing what to do with it, with many games suffering poor implementation. This could change with the newer systems.
 
Ddrizle
Production costs and heat being the major concerns. Doubtful that MS wants another ring fiasco, but I could be wrong. Besides, it seems the whole ring fiasco has been swept under the rug as if it never happened so again, I could be wrong.
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Regarding the production cost, it's the Xbox360 all over again. That came with a CPU that was ahead of basically anything that was available for the consumer to buy for their desktop PCs and even outclassed some of the pretty expensive CPUs, which, at the time, were Core 2 Duos. The most common CPUs back then were still Intel 4s and AMD 64s, I believe.

As far as heat is concerned... Well, both the PS3 anbd the 360 have been working well (ever since the first revision in case of the 360) without excessive cooling. Slap another fan or two onto it and you're set. With an external PSU, it's probably easier to keep cool than a desktop PC of similar power - let alone a gaming laptop. MS just has to do proper testing and not underestimate the heat development this time around. So, let's hope they learned from the past :lol:
Ddrizle
Their still off track as far as games are concerned, but that's me. Nintendo's 3rd party support is abysmal(mistake #1)compared to the others. This is also due to the systems underpowered(compared to the others) architecture(mistake #2). I hope this time around their talk of having better 3rd party support is not just talk, they've stated the same thing back when the N64 came around and here we are today with the Wii still behind in 3rd party support. I'm sure sales will be just fine for the Wii U, but I don't play sales, I play games, games other than 1st party, something that Nintendo's systems have lacked in my opinion. I do enjoy Nintendo's 1st party games, just not as much as others. Microsofts ring fiasco and Kinects poor games speak for themselves in my opinion. Sony has been in the red since the launch of PS3.

I'm not a fan of motion gaming/gimmicks. Sure it's a new way to play, but from what I've seen so far from all companies, it doesn't interest me in the slightest.
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I get that you dislike the direction that they've been taking, but that's your opinion and doesn't make it a mistake for the companies to do so. I dislike most of the casual games and the motion gaming myself, but it's the new thing and, well, it would be a huge mistake to not jump on the bandwagon.
Ddrizle
Sales prove that motion gaming is most likely here to stay, but for me it's just more production costs for hardware/software and companies not knowing what to do with it, with many games suffering poor implementation. This could change with the newer systems.
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Having an integrated Kinect system for the Durango might help a bit with that. If everyone who buys it has Kinect by default, more developers could start to implement Kinect features into their games - without creating the game specifically for Kinect and without making sure that the game is still 100% usable without Kinect. Right now, it's just a vague hope, but some developers might start to put that system to some good use.

I remember a tech demo which used Kinect to create a very interesting 3D effekt, without requiring a 3D TV, for example.

Not the video I had in mind, but it shows what I'm talking about.
 
Luminis
Regarding the production cost, it's the Xbox360 all over again. That came with a CPU that was ahead of basically anything that was available for the consumer to buy for their desktop PCs and even outclassed some of the pretty expensive CPUs, which, at the time, were Core 2 Duos. The most common CPUs back then were still Intel 4s and AMD 64s, I believe.

As far as heat is concerned... Well, both the PS3 anbd the 360 have been working well (ever since the first revision in case of the 360) without excessive cooling. Slap another fan or two onto it and you're set. With an external PSU, it's probably easier to keep cool than a desktop PC of similar power - let alone a gaming laptop. MS just has to do proper testing and not underestimate the heat development this time around. So, let's hope they learned from the past :lol:
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Another fan or two increases size and production costs. Also, many did not like how loud older 360's and PS3's were. At the time of release both PS3 and 360 had advanced CPU's and both were losing money off systems sold. it took years for Sony and MS to make profit off of hardware unlike Nintendo.

I get that you dislike the direction that they've been taking, but that's your opinion and doesn't make it a mistake for the companies to do so. I dislike most of the casual games and the motion gaming myself, but it's the new thing and, well, it would be a huge mistake to not jump on the bandwagon.
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Lack of 3rd party support is a mistake and a well known one. The gaming media knows it, 3rd parties know it and Nintendo know it. Nintendo wouldn't keep making statements each generation since the N64 about better 3rd party support if otherwise. It's all about money for companies, more support and games would equal more money for Nintendo.

Having an integrated Kinect system for the Durango might help a bit with that. If everyone who buys it has Kinect by default, more developers could start to implement Kinect features into their games - without creating the game specifically for Kinect and without making sure that the game is still 100% usable without Kinect. Right now, it's just a vague hope, but some developers might start to put that system to some good use.
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We'll see what happens. If it's integrated then there's nothing I can do about it, but again, not something I want or need for the X720.
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Roll eyes all you want. That was a serious question that you have yet to answer. Exactly what difference does it make that make production costs a factor against it?
 
Amazingly enough, selling consoles at a loss and making it up on software sales (or other quantifiable goods) is a perfectly valid business strategy; and while I'm sure Sony will be a lot more wary about doing it since things didn't go nearly as well as they expected with the PS3 because Blu Ray, HDTV and PS3 game sales didn't take off nearly fast enough to cover their losses on the system, I doubt Microsoft is too fussed about it so long as they don't have to fork out billions to cover unreliable hardware (thus would take the production cost hit and make sure to design it better).



So, for the third time: You say developing a console in order to massively outperform anything on the market will cause them to sell it for a loss. So?
 
Toronado
Amazingly enough, selling consoles at a loss and making it up on software sales (or other quantifiable goods) is a perfectly valid business strategy; and while I'm sure Sony will be a lot more wary about doing it since things didn't go nearly as well as they expected with the PS3 because Blu Ray and HDTV sales didn't take off fast enough to cover their losses, I doubt Microsoft is too fussed about it so long as they don't have to fork out billions to cover unreliable hardware.



So, for the third time: You say developing a console in order to massively outperform anything on the market will cause them to sell it for a loss. So?
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Refer to my answer already given.
 
You mean the answer that didn't say anything beyond "because I said so," or some other answer? Because I'm pretty sure my response you just quoted spells out why things aren't as lovingly black and white as you have been treating them as.
 
Reducing production costs it's not the only way to go. Some X360's were equiped with a chainsaw instead of a Dvd player. Many users saw their DVD's smashed by that thing, I was one of them. This is what happen'd to my Forza 3 disk after 20 minutes of gameplay:

scratched_disc.jpg


Needless to say I've immeditaly asked refund and they lost a customer for this gen. Sure, Console Devs have to reconsider their business strategy but cost reduction it's not the only way to go, Seriosly.
 
Toronado
You mean the answer that didn't say anything beyond "because I said so," or some other answer? Because I'm pretty sure my response you just quoted spells out why things aren't as lovingly black and white as you have been treating them as.
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I gave you my answer. Nothing else for me to state regarding the question. Your assumption is noted.
 
Ddrizle
Another fan or two increases size and production costs. Also, many did not like how loud older 360's and PS3's were.
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Works perfectly fine for PCs, and, let's face it, the difference between cooling the 12 core in the Durango and the rumoured four core in the PS4 isn't going to make the kind of difference that's going to break MS's neck.

Ddrizle
At the time of release both PS3 and 360 had advanced CPU's and both were losing money off systems sold. it took years for Sony and MS to make profit off of hardware unlike Nintendo.
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The point, though, is simple: Sony doesn't seem to be in a position to sell the PS3 at a loss right now. Microsoft is, though. Now, what does that mean?

You can buy a PS4 for 400$ and you can buy a Durango for 400$. The Durango, however, will come with more powerful hardware and Kinect 2.0 for the same money. Sony might be making money off of every console sold, but that isn't going to help sell console if the consumer can get a far, far superior deal by buying the competion's product. That's the idea behind such a strategy. And given the state that Sony is in, right now, it's the perfect moment for MS to try and emphasize on that.

Once they've secured a rather large market share by shoving Sony aside, MS has all the tools it needs to generate even larger profits. Such loss leader strategies are pretty common, actually. and while you are right, Ddrizle, that Sony will not want that (as they have stated themselves), MS will likely want to do that. Very much so, I would think. Why not kick Sony while they are down?
Ddrizle
Lack of 3rd party support is a mistake and a well known one. The gaming media knows it, 3rd parties know it and Nintendo know it. Nintendo wouldn't keep making statements each generation since the N64 about better 3rd party support if otherwise. It's all about money for companies, more support and games would equal more money for Nintendo.
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While that is generally true, there are two decisive factors here. The PS3's and the 360's market share is, combined, bigger than that of the Wii (by roughly 30%), so a lot of third party developers will tend to release their games on those consoles, as porting between them is rather easy. For the Wii, though, it's not that easy. The result is obvious. However, going toe to toe with Sony and Microsoft surely isn't what Nintendo is going to want. Sure, in theory, having more third party developers work on your console might be a great idea, but if it was something that was easily fixed, we would've seen more third party support on the Wii. But, alas, it isn't. One does not simply poop out third party contracts. Not unless you've got a console like the PS2, which sells so well that third party developers are happy to develop it, as its market share is huge.
Ddrizle
We'll see what happens. If it's integrated then there's nothing I can do about it, but again, not something I want or need for the X720.
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Shame I have to repeat it all over again, but this isn't about personal preference. It's just the right decision for Microsoft to deliver Kinect 2.0 with the console, whether it's something you and me are wanting doesn't matter (and I don't even want it myself).
 
Spagetti69
As someone who has all 3 consoles in my home I will not be getting all 3 next time around.

My son will probably have Wii u for Christmas.
That leaves either the PS 4 or Xbox 3.
Now I've read many posts about how I bought a PS3 for GT. I'm a person who likes the racing genre. Will I be buying a PS4 for GT6? No chance. History dictates that T10 have improved every version. PD are up and down and I'm not prepared to gamble.

Only one other circumstance can play an important factor. Wheel compatibility. Im not confident about Xbox allowing previous control systems to work. It's got Kinnect 2 built in as not to piss off kinect owners. If my Fanatec gets crippled I'm pretty certain PS will run it.
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I am with you. I bought a PS3 mainly for blu ray and for when GT5 would eventually be released. But GT5 kept getting bumped and then ended up being an unfinished disaster (20% finished). It just seems to be going downhill with each realase. Where Forza has improved with each game. Plus xboxlive is just so much better than PSN online IMO especially with the party chat system and the communication on live. So even though I have always been a multi-console gamer (mainly PS gamer), I think this is finally where the road ends and I start leaning more toward being an xbox owner. Most games are multi-console now anyway so usually if a game is out for both consoles, I get it for the 360 anyway.

With that said, I am in NO hurry to get the next gen console at all. These consoles have been so unreliable this gen. I can only imagine the disaster with the next gens.
 

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