I had an idea for the Gran Turismo series a few days ago

  • Thread starter kogunenjou
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kogunenjou

kogunenjou

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The idea was for more aerodynamic customization and a wind tunnel test. As I see it, the player could buy general aerodynamic parts for any car, and place them on any part of the car. After the player has applied the parts (I would say limit it to five or maybe even three so the physics engine doesn't crap out), they would be given the option of entering a wind tunnel to test their new aerodynamics. After testing, the relevant data (ie. old downforce vs. current downforce) would be shown to the player and they would be given the option to go back and re-apply aerodynamic parts, save and exit, or exit.

Don't be too harsh. :nervous:
 
I'm not too sure on how to interpret the data from wind tunnels so I'm not sure how widely accepted this would be to people who haver no experience with this.
 
I think with some tweaking this could be good. Reminds me of auto sculpt from NFS. I believe if they took autosculpt and made it WAY more dynamic it could add serious flair to te customization.
 
It sounds like a good idea, but I'd hope the wind tunnel wouldn't be some cheesy cutscene with those stupid guys from GTAuto.
 
ParkourVeyron
It sounds like a good idea, but I'd hope the wind tunnel wouldn't be some cheesy cutscene with those stupid guys from GTAuto.
Click to expand...

Maybe they can wash your car while you test.
 
This sound good with two modes "quick" and "pro" the first one for those who can not interpret de infor and the second for those who know this info.

They could be using the wind tunnel they already modeled. Of course using this option would need to improve how downforce modelling.
 
The whole aerodynamic designs seems a bit complex to fit into the game as it is, although the idea of having your own individual car design+performance is something which I would support.
 
Tomt5
The whole aerodynamic designs seems a bit complex to fit into the game as it is, although the idea of having your own individual car design+performance is something which I would support.
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Not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying customizing an entire car is more complex than aerodynamics modification or am I missing something?
 
Tomt5
The whole aerodynamic designs seems a bit complex to fit into the game as it is, although the idea of having your own individual car design+performance is something which I would support.
Click to expand...

There are levels to everything. You don't need to have a degree to throw some wings on a car. If suspensions tuning is OK in GT, then more advanced areo options would be fine as well. Certainly more than we have now.

There should be many more wings designed for different speeds and different levels of downforce. You would pick one (or maybe more) of these and then choose additional parts to compliment them.

We would need better aerodynamics modeling of course, max downforce should not automatically be the fastest way around the track, but that should be easy to fix. More complex would be having the aero parts interaction with the body of the car be taken in effect.

I don't agree with the wind tunnel though. It's a waste of time. Unless PD codes in some form of CFD or something that requires a lot of system resources in order to work out the aerodynamics of a car with a certain aero package over a wide range of conditions, we should just get all the numbers in real time. Using a wind tunnel and waiting for it to run and provided data would be painfully slow.
 
kogunenjou
...and place them on any part of the car.
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^I think I know what you mean, but I just got a funny picture of this in my head :sly:

A wind tunnel would be nice, actually. There's a huge difference in drag between different cars and it would be nice to have some actual figures and to see what the (if there is a) difference is when you add aero parts. However, I suspect there's no difference whatsoever when it comes to aero parts, I noticed that in some cars where I tried to adjust downforce to improve top speed, the top speed is just the same no matter the downforce setting. The only thing that seems to make a significant difference in the drag is to cut the suspension in the back of the car and letting the back end lay dead on the ground because for some reason that improves top speed a lot (but makes the car an absolute deathtrap in terms of handling, so don't try this at home kids)
 
kogunenjou
Not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying customizing an entire car is more complex than aerodynamics modification or am I missing something?
Click to expand...

I understand how currently there is next to no aerodynamic element to GT5. I just meant that if you have X amount of different aerodynamic parts, and X amount of ways you can fit them to each car, the game would just become a long tedious wind tunnel session in order to get the best performance. However your idea would be brilliant for the FGT, so I can kinda see it both ways. Maybe it would be a good idea to have it for some of the race cars, and just have more standard add-ons for the normal stuff (wings, splitters, wheel arches etc.)


Saying that... the more I think about it, the more I like the idea. The whole 'bolt on, go faster' method is annoying.
 
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The only reason this could actually be useful is if we were able to design or alter aftermarket parts (like that 'Autosculpt' function in those NFS games) and when the game is sophisticated enough to take all those aerodynamic elements and changes into the equation.
As it is now, a windtunnel would only be useful as a Photo-Mode location.
 
That's a great idea :)👍

analog
The only reason this could actually be useful is if we were able to design or alter aftermarket parts (like that 'Autosculpt' function in those NFS games) and when the game is sophisticated enough to take all those aerodynamic elements and changes into the equation.
As it is now, a windtunnel would only be useful as a Photo-Mode location.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's true. But it'd be pretty cool to see the wind tunnel simulation, I'd spend most of my time looking at the air flows around the car. :drool:
 
I'd like to have an aerodynamic/wind tunnel tuning in the game in co-operation with aerodynamic parts.

Let's say you have A, B and C front bumpers for a car. Now, A is the best looking but once applied it offers little to no downforce addition. B is only a minor alteration to the stock bumper and offers more downforce than A does. C looks the worst of the 3 but installing it gives the most downforce of the 3 different parts.

Then of course, there's rear wings and skirts that will also affect and be affected by how good the front bumper is. Throw in canards (which are called extensions in GT5) and you can determine which combination of aero parts would work best for your car and how you want it to perform.
 
analog
The only reason this could actually be useful is if we were able to design or alter aftermarket parts (like that 'Autosculpt' function in those NFS games) and when the game is sophisticated enough to take all those aerodynamic elements and changes into the equation.
As it is now, a windtunnel would only be useful as a Photo-Mode location.
Click to expand...

Besides the lack of drag from downforce, we have the bare minimum to make a worthwhile "wind tunnel" feature. Even in its simplest form, aerodynamic tuning is a tradeoff that you have to work at to nail down. GT5's aero is "that bad" because it simply ignores the tradeoff.

GTPorsche
I'd like to have an aerodynamic/wind tunnel tuning in the game in co-operation with aerodynamic parts.

Let's say you have A, B and C front bumpers for a car. Now, A is the best looking but once applied it offers little to no downforce addition. B is only a minor alteration to the stock bumper and offers more downforce than A does. C looks the worst of the 3 but installing it gives the most downforce of the 3 different parts.

Then of course, there's rear wings and skirts that will also affect and be affected by how good the front bumper is. Throw in canards (which are called extensions in GT5) and you can determine which combination of aero parts would work best for your car and how you want it to perform.
Click to expand...

Why do looks matter at all?

And you probably won't have aero parts affecting other parts without a pretty major physics model overhaul. The only exception to that would be rear wing and undertray interaction.
 
Exorcet
Why do looks matter at all?
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Aesthetics are actually pretty important to a car. They're the car's identity, its "face", if you will. I mean, I'm sure you don't have that Viper as your avatar because its color scheme makes it go faster. Having to choose between performance and aesthetics would make aerodynamic customization less cut-and-dry.

I appreciate your other points, but I thought this was worth responding to specifically.

Also I like a lot of responses in this thread. The response has been more positive and constructive than I anticipated.
 
kogunenjou
Aesthetics are actually pretty important to a car. They're the car's identity, its "face", if you will. I mean, I'm sure you don't have that Viper as your avatar because its color scheme makes it go faster. Having to choose between performance and aesthetics would make aerodynamic customization less cut-and-dry.

I appreciate your other points, but I thought this was worth responding to specifically.

Also I like a lot of responses in this thread. The response has been more positive and constructive than I anticipated.
Click to expand...

I honestly have it up their because it's a fast, RWD, well balanced car haha. I like well engineered, exciting cars, looks are secondary. Though it's blue because blue looks the best.

I was more responding to the fact that the good aero parts look bad, while the lower performance parts look good. They should change the look of the car ideally, but I would want them to look realistic rather than good or bad.

Done right, there will be plenty to choose from without worrying about looks explicitly. You don't rank performance just by upping downforce, you need to consider weight, drag, and how you're going to race as well. If aerodynamics turn out to be A > B > C, I think that's the ultimate form of cut and dry.
 
kogunenjou
The idea was for more aerodynamic customization and a wind tunnel test. As I see it, the player could buy general aerodynamic parts for any car, and place them on any part of the car. After the player has applied the parts (I would say limit it to five or maybe even three so the physics engine doesn't crap out), they would be given the option of entering a wind tunnel to test their new aerodynamics. After testing, the relevant data (ie. old downforce vs. current downforce) would be shown to the player and they would be given the option to go back and re-apply aerodynamic parts, save and exit, or exit.

Don't be too harsh. :nervous:
Click to expand...

Hi Kogunenjou

Your idea is great, without any doubt. But there is one little big problem with that.

GT doesn´t calculate fluids into its physics engine. And remember... air is indeed a fluid. That´s why you get some pretty absurd results ir high speed testing "inverting" the logic parameters of suspension and downforce.

Kaz says that in an interview. That he would love to add fluids calculations in real time, but its impossible given the current state of console processing. And if I remember correctly was after visiting the Red Bull simulator.

So... that´s it. It would be a nice "visual entertainment" (like the background with the X2011 in the wind tunnel) but nothing else...

Bye :)
 
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Astro_BS-AS
Hi Kogunenjou

Your idea is great, without any doubt. But there is one little big problem with that.

GT doesn´t calculate fluids into its physics engine. And remember... air is indeed a fluid. That´s why you get some pretty absurd results ir high speed testing "inverting" the logic parameters of suspension and downforce.

Kaz says that in an interview. That he would love to add fluids calculations in real time, but its impossible given the current state of console processing. And if I remember correctly was after visiting the Red Bull simulator.

So... that´s it. It would be a nice "visual entertainment" (like the background with the X2011 in the wind tunnel) but nothing else...

Bye :)
Click to expand...



CFD isn't the only way to calculate aerodynamic forces. Even so, the calculations would not have to be real time. GT could run a simulation to create a data matrix that would describe the aerodynamics at various states (speeds, angles, etc). Most realistically though, the table for each car and part would come premade by PD, as is done right now.

There are games that perform calculations in real time, not CFD of course though. This is one:



By having the game calculate aerodynamics in real time, players can be allowed to create their own planes.

Here is another advanced simulator
 
gorsad
That's a great idea :)👍

Yeah, that's true. But it'd be pretty cool to see the wind tunnel simulation, I'd spend most of my time looking at the air flows around the car. :drool:
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this.

I totally agree with this idea, having a aerodynamic setup and a wind tunnel simulation would be a great idea for the GT series when tuning for the best setup to ally itself with performance.

Now if you add a dyno tuning setup combination (not that line graph showing your horsepower and torque) in connection with the aero/wind tunnel... Just think about the possiblities.
 
Exorcet
I honestly have it up their because it's a fast, RWD, well balanced car haha. I like well engineered, exciting cars, looks are secondary. Though it's blue because blue looks the best.

I was more responding to the fact that the good aero parts look bad, while the lower performance parts look good. They should change the look of the car ideally, but I would want them to look realistic rather than good or bad.

Done right, there will be plenty to choose from without worrying about looks explicitly. You don't rank performance just by upping downforce, you need to consider weight, drag, and how you're going to race as well. If aerodynamics turn out to be A > B > C, I think that's the ultimate form of cut and dry.
Click to expand...

I only did a vague explanation to put the idea out there. I realize more goes into performance factors, but PD doesn't even take the weight of each part into consideration in GT.
 
Astro_BS-AS
Hi Kogunenjou

Your idea is great, without any doubt. But there is one little big problem with that.

GT doesn´t calculate fluids into its physics engine. And remember... air is indeed a fluid. That´s why you get some pretty absurd results ir high speed testing "inverting" the logic parameters of suspension and downforce.

Kaz says that in an interview. That he would love to add fluids calculations in real time, but its impossible given the current state of console processing. And if I remember correctly was after visiting the Red Bull simulator.

So... that´s it. It would be a nice "visual entertainment" (like the background with the X2011 in the wind tunnel) but nothing else...

Bye :)
Click to expand...

One thing that you have to remember is that the next generation is coming. And with each generation, not only do the graphics improve, but physics engines improve as well. I don't know what kind of physics engine GT5 uses, and I'm not going to pretend to, but they've shown that they can make it more efficient and more effective through a constant stream of GT5 patches and tweaks. Given the current state of processing power, fluid modeling may be impossible. However, that doesn't mean that the next Gran Turismo game (assuming it's being released for PS4) will not be able to model fluids at least to some degree.
 

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