Spectators

The nordschleife seemed kinda dead in Gt4. No spectators or any kinda sound. Forza 2 did an incredible job brnging th nordschleife and its flair to life. does anybody know what gt5 will be like??

I see where you are coming from, but I actually enjoyed the lack of spectators on the Nurb in GT4.....sure its great for circuits and rally's and what not, but I enjoyed hearing the pure sound of the engine and exhaust as the car flew down the straightaways and into the tight hairpins. Just me, the car, and the road......just my opinion.

There isn't all that many spectators on the Nurb (IRL), besides the few grandstands and viewing spots.

I also enjoy the lack of spectators everywhere, it's nice to 'enter the Nurb' and come back out 8-10mins later, much like entering a hills pass or a forest (hard to explain). Plus I enjoy the long track so much I wouldn't even notice them.

I have the Rothmans Porsche In car camera DVD of Derek Bell taking a camera around the world most famous tracks with his 956, included the Nordschleife.
On the left hillside there were a LOT of spectators with hundreds of tents and people just behind the safety fence right before the Karussell.
At ''Hohe Acht'' and ''Wippermann'' down to ''Pflanzgarten'' the left hillsides were crowded too with tents and even spectators having a BBQ.

The pit lanes were full with people and pit crews, I guess more than 200 persons during the 83' ''1000 Kilometer'' race.

I have been at thenordschleife for the 24h a lot of times and my father is a driver. he sais the best thing is the atmosphere around the ring and i as a spectator can varyfy that. of course is the course amazing but NS without people around it is not the real deal.

How about a different number of spectators depending on what you're doing. Say, you're in for a trackday, just paid your toll. You don't seriously expect throngs of people to watch you drive your slightly modified 1988 Honda Accord Coupe, right?

However, if you're in your 155 V6 TI for the Tourenwagen Meisterschaft, you'd better see throngs of screaming people on the outside of the Carousel.

It would be nice if PD varied the amount of spectators according to what activity was going on at the time. If you were just hot-lapping then there should be next to no one about (much as it is on GT4) If you're doing a lesser race perhaps a spattering of spectators would be around. However, a more major race, like an enduro, would produce the sort of crowd you'd expect at any major race meeting. Hopefully GT5 will have the Nurburgring circuit complete with the GP loop section, like they use in the real Nurburgring 24hrs.

To be honest I would rather have an accurate recreation of the 'ring in terms of track detail before they work on spectators.

Forza 1 (and by the looks of the videos for Forza 2) did not get even close in this area, with the curb heights wrong, the track far to smooth and too wide. The spectators in both don't even come close to making up for that kind of inaccuracy.

Scaff

But GT4's pretty good at that, right? So, I think they can afford to look into such a thing on all their tracks.

look at thease
http://www.bikerlodge.de/Nordschleife.jpg
http://www.pro-steilstrecke.de/images/24h2002/Rennen/VorProgramm/DemoRunde1.jpg
http://www.pro-steilstrecke.de/images/24h2003/133-3310_IMG.jpg
http://www.pro-steilstrecke.de/images/24h2003/136-3686_IMG.jpg
http://www.pro-steilstrecke.de/images/24h2003/Dcp_0822.jpg
http://www.pro-steilstrecke.de/images/24h2003/136-3608_IMG.jpg
http://www.pro-steilstrecke.de/images/24h2003/136-3616_IMG.jpg

And that's how it has to look. what PD did in gt4 was a joke. i mean the physics weren't to bad but when i drove the 24h race i was bored out of my mind. it looked like some deserted race track. And thats not what the green hell is all about.
Go Gtr2

waterpoloinc

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When I first saw this thread I thought you were being a bit picky, to be honest, but you do have a point... esp. given the picture I've quoted... it would be very nice indeed to atleast have the option of having a more 'atmospheric' environment, or even to be able to select a night version of the track (if a day/night transition weren't possible)... I can live without the camper vans and the crusty food stalls, but I agree a bit of 'race meet' atmosphere could be a nice inclusion... (although the balloons are a bit over the top!!)

Meh. If you're paying attention to the crowd, you're not paying enough attention to the driving.

OT-> I agree with Scaff, physics needs to be improved slightly, so far I'm happy the way PD did with GT4.

BT-> A deserted Nur is good if you're doing an official time attacks (like around between 4:30-7:30am) in which the gates are still closed to the public. Just look at Gan-san's (Motoharu Kurosawa) run with the [NA2] NSX-R on BMI (can't find the vid, sorry, buy the DVD).

-> Minimal spectators/crowds should be implied on open track days, and some traffic from other cars trying to do the same thing. Just like those spy-dudes like Brenda Priddy hangs around on those days.

-> And for huge events (like 24-25hrs, DTM, etc.), huge amount of crowds/spectators sprawling all over the place. Just imagine Eiger (on GTHD) but 10-20x more.

(:

Your right the camper vans do give it a tacky feel and probably should be avoided, plenty of spectators should without doubt be given serious thought by PD, now some people say they wouldn't even notice because they are to busy focusing on the track, well i am not so sure that works for everyone, spectators will give atmosphere to a track, and while i don't spend all my time looking at them, I do seem to pay much attention to it in the subconsciously, I find myself getting bored of certain tracks occasionally because my opponents slightly too easy, so there is nothing exciting about the race. I run faster in sports competitions mostly because, of adrenaline, but encouragement from spectators always makes me push harder. Now I am not saying spectators will encourage everyone to work harder, nor am I saying you will be able to get the 'atmosphere' over on your TV, however this doesn't take away that spectators play an important role in racing.

I wouldn't like to turn up to the Sunday cup and find spectators occupying every possible spot however for the Major races, in the extreme hall and endurance events, I would like to see places cram packed with active spectators, this surely isn't an impossible ask for the PS3 and if it is to taxing perhaps inactive spectators, I would rather see static spectators on major events who are just about everywhere rather than a few moving spectators on a major event.

Touring Mars

When I first saw this thread I thought you were being a bit picky, to be honest, but you do have a point... esp. given the picture I've quoted... it would be very nice indeed to atleast have the option of having a more 'atmospheric' environment, or even to be able to select a night version of the track (if a day/night transition weren't possible)... I can live without the camper vans and the crusty food stalls, but I agree a bit of 'race meet' atmosphere could be a nice inclusion... (although the balloons are a bit over the top!!)

Click to expand...

ok, i somewhat second my first statement after seeing this pic....that would be great to see IMO. If i were doing a hot lap tho, I like what i mentioned above (just me, the car, and the road)......but yeah if it's a big race, that type of atmosphere would be sweet.

Duke

Meh. If you're paying attention to the crowd, you're not paying enough attention to the driving.

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That's like playing a soccer/football game with no crowd. Can you imagin that? (If you've ever played one that is.)

not quite because the spectator noise would be somewhat muffled by engine noises, however your right. The crowd will still create atmosphere.

ExigeExcel

That's like playing a soccer/football game with no crowd. Can you imagin that? (If you've ever played one that is.)

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Finally somebody who gets what i mean. Thats exactly what it is

waterpoloinc

Finally somebody who gets what i mean. Thats exactly what it is

Click to expand...

Oh I get what you mean and for race events (rather than time trial) I quite agree; what I disagree with is the notion that the crowds make Forza'a 'ring better than GT4's, because while they add atmosphere the actual track recreation is shockingly poor in Forza.


Regards

Scaff

naturally gt is better. all i said is that the gameplay experience takes a big hit because of the lack of spectators.

But would you want spectators if you're just out there wringing the neck of your '99 Taurus SHO? Because I'm getting the impression of you wanting people out there ALL THE TIME.

Unfortunately the trend in the GT4 series has been fewer spectators with each new version of the game as detailed here, with a possible reason for this given in this post.

In any case, we can always hope the trend reverses!

No that is no means what I want, I want few spectators for small events, and I want crammed spectators for major event, and for track/testdays barely anyone at all. That is what I would want.

BTW that was a quality link BobK

waterpoloinc

look at thease
http://www.bikerlodge.de/Nordschleife.jpg
http://www.pro-steilstrecke.de/images/24h2002/Rennen/VorProgramm/DemoRunde1.jpg
http://www.pro-steilstrecke.de/images/24h2003/133-3310_IMG.jpg
http://www.pro-steilstrecke.de/images/24h2003/136-3686_IMG.jpg
http://www.pro-steilstrecke.de/images/24h2003/Dcp_0822.jpg
http://www.pro-steilstrecke.de/images/24h2003/136-3608_IMG.jpg
http://www.pro-steilstrecke.de/images/24h2003/136-3616_IMG.jpg

And hat how it has to look. what PD did in gt4 was a joke. i mean the physics weren't to bad but when i drove the 24h race i was bored out of my mind. it looked like some deserted race track. And thats not what the green hell is all about.
Go Gtr2

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Nice pictures, with them now I understand what you mean, this would be great for event races but I like it fairly quiet when I do my own car testing.
Personally if they are not included I am not all that bothered.


One thing I really would like is 'open sessions' (like open to public) where the track could be full of 50 or so random road cars and maybe bikes, though the programing made sure that no more than say 10 cars can be seen in one spot at a time so the PS3 can handle it.

This may be me just hoping for to much but if we have more spectators are we going to have litter on the track, you know stuff like paper, leaves and the worst of all the plastic bag. Those plastic bags have killed so many cars.

I like the fact that you are "alone" on the ring when you are doing time attacks etc that kind of gives the place its own atmosphere - just you, your car and the track. But for proper races like the DTM and 24hr Eduro's crowds would be cool, especially at the end of the race if you could do a cool-down lap with the crowd yelling and waving banners etc. But not if it would mean a reduction in the track quality.

bjb

This may be me just hoping for to much but if we have more spectators are we going to have litter on the track, you know stuff like paper, leaves and the worst of all the plastic bag. Those plastic bags have killed so many cars.

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Or, if you're driving the #24 Chevrolet, beer cans, bottles, food....

((Poor Jeff....))

Actually, Let's make the fans a bit more responsible than that. I'll go with paper, and especially leaves, like on Autumn Ring, or a Touge.

Gashlycrumb

I like the fact that you are "alone" on the ring when you are doing time attacks etc that kind of gives the place its own atmosphere - just you, your car and the track. But for proper races like the DTM and 24hr Eduro's crowds would be cool, especially at the end of the race if you could do a cool-down lap with the crowd yelling and waving banners etc. But not if it would mean a reduction in the track quality.

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Agreed.

When I test drive a new car, I like to do so on a quiet country road. The 'ring in GT4 was perfect for this - long enough to get to grips with your new wheels, and quiet enough that there are no witnesses when you make a mistake.

Having seen the pictures now I have to agree that the longer races do seem a bit dead without the crowds. I hadn't noticed this when I drove the 24hours - the lack of daylight changes being more obvious, but the addition of crowds would have made the experience much more enjoyable.

If the Nurb actually looked the way it does in those scrns, minus the spectators, im talking the colors and the right plantlife, then that'd be great, and a more reasonable expectation for gt5.

In gt4 the asphault isn't even black, and the color of the light is this awkward golden color. The plantlife is also too 'idealized'. Fix that, and you have your atmosphere.

Crowds are really important for the atmosphere at endurance races. If you've seen Steve McQueen's Le Mans movie (filmed at the '70 race) there are huge crowds there that make it feel so much more like a real race than anything I've seen in GT.

Just check out this picture from the Nurburgring 1000km in 1967