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[kcheeb]

Here's what I'm thinking of setting up so we can have a more level playing field in all the Divisions.

New S.N.A.I.L.s will race with us on Wednesday night to determine their skill level. If they are unable to join us on Wednesday they can run a predetermined Time Trial and submit a time that will be used to place them in the appropriate Division.

Relegation and Promotion will be done as it currently is, based on the points for the night. Now before you go all ballistic on me, the reason for this is it is a better indication of your ability to Race, not just drive but Race. And I'm not convinced a fancy formula that takes the position of the celestial bodies into account is going to be better. Most of the relegations that have caused problems were No-Shows whose skill was obviously better than the Division they were relegated to, see below.

No-Shows will no longer be subject to relegation. They will be barred from racing in the next race unless an explanation is offered in the S.N.A.I.L. thread at least 24 hours before the next race. If you No-Show without notice two weeks in a row, you will be moved to a No-Show list. From the No-Show list you will be removed from the league within a certain time frame. You can be reinstated from the No-Show list but remember, fool me once ... you won't fool me again.

 

[irmopars]

I like the idea Cheeb, but do you think nearly 6 days to post a reason is to much time?
I know it doesn't matter because you put the divisions together a day before the race.

 

[kcheeb]

I like the idea Cheeb, but do you think nearly 6 days to post a reason is to much time?
I know it doesn't matter because you put the divisions together a day before the race.

I don't think the amount of time matters. It's been my experience when people no show they will not be returning to S.N.A.I.L. I could give them an hour or a month and it wouldn't matter.

I want to give our faithful S.N.A.I.L.s as much time as possible to rectify what is in most cases an oversight. And as you said, the Divisions are put together on Saturday.

 

[zer05ive]

Wasn't it brough up a long time ago that if someone picked too many one and done combos, we might look at taking away your ability to choose combos? I don't remember for sure when this was and I really don't remember if there was any outcome to it.

Yes, it brought up a long time ago. It's not too difficult to see what the "one and done" combos are. Just use the Quick Tip in this post.

There was a time when our Prize A and Prize B winners felt like they had a duty to the league to make selections that would result in quality racing that was enjoyable to all. The Prize A and Prize B winners hold a lot of power in this league and it's direction. If we can no longer trust that they have the best interest of all of our members in mind when they make their selections, maybe it's time that we revisit making a policy about someone making too many "one and done" selections.

It would be pretty really simple to implement. If you make X number of Prize A selections that are "one and done", then you can no longer select Prize A for X number of weeks. Instead, you can only choose Prize B or C during this hypothetical probation period. I think this would solve some of the problems that we've had in the past with D3 drivers not being happy with the combos that are chosen. This rule would force Prize A and Prize B winners to consider all three divisions when making selections and not just Division 1.

That being said, I don't think we should limit what our Prize A and Prize B winners feel like they can select (unless of course they are intentionally trying to sabotage the quality of racing). If they really want to pick a certain combo that D3 drivers won't enjoy, but they feel that D1 drivers will, I say go for it. They would just need to accept that they might not be able to pick a combo like that again due to a "one and done" probation. This would then give others a chance at picking combos, and that's a good thing. 👍

Wasn't it brought up a long time ago that if someone joined late in race 1, they would pull over during race 2 and allow the field to go by, by turn 1? I don't remember for sure when this was and I do remember the outcome was (made by Zero in the room at the time it happened), they were to fall back. This came about when you joined late one race. The magic wand was waved over this ruling and all was forgotten, no biggie.

Yes, it was brought up a long time ago. You sent a PM to me back on March 11th asking about this very issue. Here was my response:

No requirement like that would be made of a late arriving driver. The reason for this is because our points system simply does not enable people to "game the system". If someone really wanted to "cheat" and guarantee themselves pole position for the second race, they would be much better off simply finishing last in the first race. That way, they'd at least get a point for finishing last. If someone joins late or is disconnected, they get absolutely no points at all. Let me know if you have any additional concerns or questions about this.

You then responded saying that you understood and acknowledged that I had things well thought out. If you don't have this conversation saved, I can forward it to so that you can refresh your memory. Ap also addressed your question here but you asked again which is why I'm addressing it again.

I think it's also important to note that while there was no advantage under our old point system to miss the first race of a round so that you could start first in the second race, now that we use our improved PERFECT 100 points system, it's now a HUGE disadvantage to miss a race because just getting last place in a race is now usually worth about 6 or 7 points. Why would anyone miss a race under this new points system when when it would result in then giving up all of those guaranteed points just for being on the grid? Even starting at the front of the grid on the second race would be equivalent to starting 6 or 7 spots back when it comes to points. There is simply no advantage to doing it which is why there is no policy to further punish someone who missed the first race. Let me know if you still have any questions about this.

 

[irmopars]

The "one and done" combo's, would they have a period of time they are valid for, say x # of races in the past, or all races taken into account. Example Mr. Brown picks 30 combo's over his time here, and the limit for "one and done" are 5 (or what ever # you come up with), over the course of his picks, he has now reached the fifth time, but he's been here for say 10 months, would he be out for picking Prize A for X # of weeks? Or would it be in say, the last 10 picks or something.
Reason i ask is i was thinking its only a matter of time (whether or not he picked simple tracks or horrible ones) before Mr. Brown becomes on probation, given the 33% chance of a combo becoming "one and done".


Also, yes i did forget i sent that to you, as a standard member i can only hold 50 PM's, so when things are figured out or i dont think i would need to hold onto it, i deleted it, sorry for the confusion Zero.

 

[Apmaddock]

I was thinking the same thing as your "Mr. Brown" scenario, mopar, and I think it's a good idea.

Something like, "X picks out of the last 5 (or 8 or 10 or whatever)" or, "'One and Done' picks 'fall off' after X weeks."

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Make it simple, like Monopoly. If you do it three times in a row, then you "Go To Jail". After that, you are suspended for some time.

A side question, is there any problem with reviving a previous combo? Perhaps one that is at least over X weeks old?

 

[Apmaddock]

There's no problem, other than a possible lack of originality.

 

[zer05ive]

For me, the simpler the better. I have no interest in tracking anyone's combo selections over a 10 month period as in your Mr. Brown example. I don't think anyone would want to track that.

The idea of this hypothetical rule is just to force the Prize A and Prize B winners to consider all of the drivers in the league when they make their selections. That is not to say that they can't knowingly pick difficult or unpopular combos if they so choose. They would just have to deal with the consequences "one and done" probation period if they did so too many times.

Again, some people may not care about a "one and done" probation period, and that's their right. Just like it's the right of a Prize A and Prize B winner to pick whatever they want within our guidelines. Think of the "one and done" probation as a ribbon that someone gets that says "I pick unpopular combos so now I can't pick combos for a while". Some people may want to avoid wearing that ribbon, and some people might not mind at all.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

And to be fair, there may be times when some one picks a perfectly fine combo, but it just happens that of the three, it is the one that gets booted. We have had those weeks, where, I for one, liked all of them, and simply had to vote based on gap times at the end of the race.

So, not every one and done is bad.

 

[dylansan]

No requirement like that would be made of a late arriving driver. The reason for this is because our points system simply does not enable people to "game the system". If someone really wanted to "cheat" and guarantee themselves pole position for the second race, they would be much better off simply finishing last in the first race. That way, they'd at least get a point for finishing last. If someone joins late or is disconnected, they get absolutely no points at all. Let me know if you have any additional concerns or questions about this.

...

I think it's also important to note that while there was no advantage under our old point system to miss the first race of a round so that you could start first in the second race, now that we use our improved PERFECT 100 points system, it's now a HUGE disadvantage to miss a race because just getting last place in a race is now usually worth about 6 or 7 points. Why would anyone miss a race under this new points system when when it would result in then giving up all of those guaranteed points just for being on the grid? Even starting at the front of the grid on the second race would be equivalent to starting 6 or 7 spots back when it comes to points. There is simply no advantage to doing it which is why there is no policy to further punish someone who missed the first race. Let me know if you still have any questions about this.

If I recall there had been a situation in the past where a driver won or did very well in the first race and then got disconnected, and reconnected before the second race, thus starting at the front again. It may have been on a Wednesday so it may not have been important, but it could potentially happen again.

 

[zer05ive]

If I recall there had been a situation in the past where a driver won or did very well in the first race and then got disconnected, and reconnected before the second race, thus starting at the front again. It may have been on a Wednesday so it may not have been important, but it could potentially happen again.

If they got disconnected, then they finish in last place. Sucks for them. Should we then punish them further by moving them to the back of the grid on the second race too? I personally don't think so.

 

[dabneyd]

If I recall there had been a situation in the past where a driver won or did very well in the first race and then got disconnected, and reconnected before the second race, thus starting at the front again. It may have been on a Wednesday so it may not have been important, but it could potentially happen again.

Every race that I've been involved in where this is the case, we did a manual grid.

 

[dylansan]

If they got disconnected, then they finish in last place. Sucks for them. Should we then punish them further by moving them to the back of the grid on the second race too? I personally don't think so.

No, I mean they finish the first race and get disconnected before the next race starts. So they get points for the first race and then have an advantage for the second.

 

[zer05ive]

No, I mean they finish the first race and get disconnected before the next race starts. So they get points for the first race and then have an advantage for the second.

Oh, I totally misunderstood what you meant. Of course they would have to go to the back - no doubt about it! Simply put, if you get 1st place in the first race, then you start last for the second race. If you get last place in the first race, then you start first in the second race.

 

[kcheeb]

Time to next S.N.A.I.L. Sunday Night Race

​

Here's the link to create this if you want it somewhere more noticeable zer0

 

[Handlebar]

I saw the new combos are not on page 1 yet.

It is the Viper at Indy & the SRT8 at Cape Ring South, the RM Lotus at Spa (5 laps?) I think.

 

[irmopars]

The viper is about mid-52 seconds a lap.(if Im remembering correctly)
Not sure on the Srt8, did a few laps last night but got off early due to working early this morning.

 

[Handlebar]

I am only mid 55, but I can feel where some of the rough parts are,

 

[irmopars]

Yours should be broken in from last week, but from your times its sounds like it might not be.

 

[JLBowler]

I was running mid to high 52's by myself when I tested it before choosing. 11 or 12 laps is what we're looking at.

 

[Apmaddock]

Probably 12 when you add drafting; and since we like to be slightly over 10 minutes rather than under.

 

[zer05ive]

I saw the new combos are not on page 1 yet.

It is the Viper at Indy & the SRT8 at Cape Ring South, the RM Lotus at Spa (5 laps?) I think.

Sorry for the delay. The lineup has now been updated with the new cars and tracks for this Sunday's races. As always, we'll nail down the number of laps for the new combos during tonight's practice/unofficial races.

 

[Nicktune]

If I recall there had been a situation in the past where a driver won or did very well in the first race and then got disconnected, and reconnected before the second race, thus starting at the front again. It may have been on a Wednesday so it may not have been important, but it could potentially happen again.

You can set the grid order to Fastest first then line up in the correct order on turn 1 (no need to go far)....Start the race...wait for the countdown and enjoy.

 

[M1SS-D3V10US]

I will not be able to attend the races for Sunday 06-24-2012, due to work. I need to get up at 4am for work on Monday Morning, and 4.5 hours of sleep is simply not going to cut it. Stupid work - getting in the way of my virtual racing!!

Sorry.

G'luck to everyone in Division 1

 

[zer05ive]

A side question, is there any problem with reviving a previous combo? Perhaps one that is at least over X weeks old?

Unless we start running out of cars and tracks that we haven't raced yet, I'd rather our car and track combos remain unique and fresh. However, Exo had this awesome idea which I really like. I would love to have a vote to see what combos were the all-time favorites and then have, as Exo put it, a "Memory Lane" night.

Make it simple, like Monopoly. If you do it three times in a row, then you "Go To Jail". After that, you are suspended for some time.

If the measurement we go by is picking three "one and done" combos in a row, how do you suggest we view a Prize A selection (meaning both a new car and track combo) that is only partially voted out (receives the second highest number of elimination votes)? Would that qualify as a "one and done"? Personally, I don't think that should weigh as heavily as if the entire combo is voted off (receives the most elimination votes).

What if we measured the "one and done" policy by components? In other words, the car is one component and the track is one component. So if anyone ever selects three consecutive components that don't make it past one week, then they are not allowed to make car and track selections until they are "earn back" those components. Finishing 1st in D1 would earn back two components (the equivalent of a Prize A selection) while finishing 2nd in D1 would earn back one component (the equivalent of a Prize B selection).

And to be fair, there may be times when some one picks a perfectly fine combo, but it just happens that of the three, it is the one that gets booted. We have had those weeks, where, I for one, liked all of them, and simply had to vote based on gap times at the end of the race.

So, not every one and done is bad.

I agree that not every one and done is bad. Therefore, I don't think that a "one and done" probation should be viewed as scarlet letter or anything like that. I genuinely feel that our Prize A and Prize B winners usually try to pick good combos. This "one and done" policy would just be a way of making sure it stays that way. It would also give drivers who might not normally get to pick combos a chance to do so, which as I stated before, is a good thing. 👍

 

[Rallywagon]

Unless we start running out of cars and tracks that we haven't raced yet, I'd rather our car and track combos remain unique and fresh. However, Exo had this awesome idea which I really like. I would love to have a vote to see what combos were the all-time favorites and then have, as Exo put it, a "Memory Lane" night.

Well, Monday nights are fairly free! lol, I did like this idea. I also was throwing around the idea of rehashing Goats idea of of that race he had with the cover cars. Well, those same cars are in one of many different demo racers. Hit triangle at the main title screen to watch them. I was thinking of scouring a few of these to put together races.

If the measurement we go by is picking three "one and done" combos in a row, how do you suggest we view a Prize A selection (meaning both a new car and track combo) that is only partially voted out (receives the second highest number of elimination votes)? Would that qualify as a "one and done"? Personally, I don't think that should weigh as heavily as if the entire combo is voted off (receives the most elimination votes).

What if we measured the "one and done" policy by components? In other words, the car is one component and the track is one component. So if anyone ever selects three consecutive components that don't make it past one week, then they are not allowed to make car and track selections until they are "earn back" those components. Finishing 1st in D1 would earn back two components (the equivalent of a Prize A selection) while finishing 2nd in D1 would earn back one component (the equivalent of a Prize B selection).



I agree that not every one and done is bad. Therefore, I don't think that a "one and done" probation should be viewed as scarlet letter or anything like that. I genuinely feel that our Prize A and Prize B winners usually try to pick good combos. This "one and done" policy would just be a way of making sure it stays that way. It would also give drivers who might not normally get to pick combos a chance to do so, which as I stated before, is a good thing. 👍

IDK about that. Seems like we are adding to many alternative rules to the list now. I'm not sure I even like the one and done concept as a whole. Its one thing to choose a combo out of spite. That should be handled surely. But you can't always expect to have a popular combo picked every time, and with only about 5 racers really picking the combos, well, picking one and dones is fairly easy. I would rather allow one prize for each veteran division winner (well, at least veteran for d3) then go with a one and done penalty.

 

[dylansan]

I don't think the ability to earn back the choice of components should be based on the results of any race, as that has little bearing on a person's ability to choose fun combos. I can see how it could be seen as a prize but personally I think it might be wise to any more avoid prizes that involve influence over the league and it's races. I'm not even convinced that getting to choose combos should be the prize for winning D1, but I suppose someone has to choose and the winners deserve some kind of prize. But giving more control to people just for winning seems a bit unnecessary, and I think it would be nice if people in lower divisions had the chance to put some input into combos as well.

EDIT: Looks like I'm going to be all orange tonight and this Sunday. It's by no means my official color but it just so happens all the cars this week come in that color and look good in it. I prefer to keep factory colors so it's not often I'll end up with all three cars matching. For the record though, I do have an official racing number and it is #12. I know there's a list keeping track of those things so if anyone wants to add that information they might as well.

 

[JLBowler]

What if we were to limit each driver to one prize per month with a priority list. This would open up the possibility of different drivers making selections and no one driver making selections all the time. The priority would look something like this. D1 podium, D2 podium, D3 podium.

Example: week 1 of month D1 podium would get prizes a, b, and, c
week 2 D1 1st and 3rd got prizes in week one prizes would go to D1 2nd, D2 1st, and D2 2nd
week 3 D1 podium has already won prizes and d2 1st and 2nd has alread won prizes. Prizes would go to D2 3rd, D3 1st, and D3 2nd

It's just a thought that I'm throwing out there. Critique at will.

 

[Apmaddock]

That's…not bad. The only thing I see against it is people in D1 who won last week wondering, "what am I racing for?"

(for me it would be the fun, challenge and bragging rights. I don't know that everyone's like me, though.)