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[moutonguerrier]

Which brings up the pet peeve I have with the league promoting those with poor racecraft or already on probation.

I might have been on the last chance list, but I was off of probation as I drove enough weeks with no complaints to kill my - I don't know? - 6 week probation.

FOR I: I can use more patience, but what I really need is to practice overtaking strategy and awareness WITH opponents, because that's what has been killing me so far.

FOR I & OTHERS: ...some drivers should improve their "battle" awareness: understand that if a driver is closing up to you, there might be a chance he's going to try to overtake either by the left or the right and using your zoomed map (or the arrows) will help you be aware of where he is on track, particularly while racing side-by-side.

You know that flag? GT5 should implement it

If he's always ahead of the d3 pack of leaders, how is he to get used to running in the d2 pack? The fact is, he earned promotion, it wasn't just given to anyone. Now that he's forced to actually race in a pack, we can see his issues.

More importantly, I can aknowledge my issues and work on them, but hmm I'm banned so...

edit: Yesterday's practice wasn't so much different than being in D3...
round 1: 1st, 1st
round 2: 1st, 2nd (lost control at some point)
round 3: 1st, 1st
Most passes were too easy to make...

 

[Apmaddock]

I might have been on the last chance list, but I was off of probation as I drove enough weeks with no complaints to kill my - I don't know? - 6 week probation.

No. You weren't.

You know that flag? GT5 should implement it

That would only apply if a driver was being lapped. A driver has all right to defend his position should he be ahead of another driver, no matter the disparity in skill or speed.

 

[moutonguerrier]

No. You weren't.



That would only apply if a driver was being lapped. A driver has all right to defend his position should he be ahead of another driver, no matter the disparity in skill or speed.

According to a PM you sent to me, I had two weeks left, I THEN raced two sundays in D3, then got promoted to D2 so I wasn't on probation anymore... don't tell me 1+1 != 2. Obviously I don't have the PM anymore, else I would've quoted it.

The flag only applies when a driver gets lapped? I've never raced irl, but the place where I was introduced to flag systems is iRacing and that flag would be used when a faster driver was closing up on you regardless of if we was lapping you or if we was overtaking for a position.

 

[Chiochan]

A couple of weeks ago I ran my first Wednesday practice since I joined Snail. I was wanting to check it out. The first thing I thought was there were waaay to many racers in here to be getting any kind of practice. I kinda figured Snail would have each division room set up with one race track.
For example:
Division 1 - first combo running races every 20 min.
Division 2 - second combo
Division 3 - third combo.

Then you could just jump into a room that you wanted to race. If you were having trouble running the third combo then u could go to division 3 and run there.

this is a cool idea but i don't want to change the practice format. I think we should use this for impromptu practice sessions.

 

[Apmaddock]

According to a PM you sent to me, I had two weeks left, I THEN raced two sundays in D3, then got promoted to D2 so I wasn't on probation anymore... don't tell me 1+1 != 2. Obviously I don't have the PM anymore, else I would've quoted it.

Then I must have told you wrongly…*perhaps I thought the list hadn't been updated yet when it had, because you're still on the probation list.

The flag only applies when a driver gets lapped? I've never raced irl, but the place where I was introduced to flag systems is iRacing and that flag would be used when a faster driver was closing up on you regardless of if we was lapping you or if we was overtaking for a position.

In SNAIL there would be no other reason for that flag. If you are in a division with someone you should be of similar speed.

It seems to me that many problem drivers have one thing in common: the resolute belief that they are the fastest ones on the grid and everyone else is in their way. Put another way: Constant Hotlap Syndrome.

 

[Luv2Coach]

Description: Blue with yellow diagonal stripe. (More common on paved tracks, used in most forms of auto racing) Uses: Motionless, indicates to a driver that there is a faster car following closely behind, but not yet close enough for a pass.
Waving indicates that the driver is about to be overtaken and should take care to permit the following vehicle a safe pass. This is not a written rule in most sanctioned forms of racing but is considered a courtesy to faster racers.

 

[Apmaddock]

Your point?

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

I'm guessing that makes sense in mixed class racing but not in snail spec. However, I usually pull over for D1 racers in practice that are faster in every corner than I am. That being said, if I see you struggle through some of the corners or with car control, and our lap times are not that much different, I'm not getting out of your way!

From "House Rules" in Immortalpilot's F1 World championship races series

Overtaking​

"Just because you’re quicker, doesn't mean you’re going to pass the car in front at the next corner, he has a right to defend as much as you do to attack. Always remember that the race isn’t won on the first lap. Wait for an opportunity to present itself and take the overtake..."

 

[DJones]

Am I the only person that uses the large, full course, fixed position map? Everyone makes a big deal about it, but I don't use it for close proximity racing at all. If I get a big lead or run off I can use it to judge gaps and that's it. The rest of the time I use the look back, left, right, listen, and my prior knowledge of the racer to judge their position and most likely move. That's why I race more conservatively around unfamiliar racers, but have no problem following (or being followed by ) Goat lap after lap within two feet of him.

It was my understanding that this is the expected awareness/effort you were to put into racing. Either a lot of people are slacking or I'm doing a lot of extra (but IMO necessary) work.

 

[JLBowler]

Then I must have told you wrongly…*perhaps I thought the list hadn't been updated yet when it had, because you're still on the probation list.



In SNAIL there would be no other reason for that flag. If you are in a division with someone you should be of similar speed.

It seems to me that many problem drivers have one thing in common: the resolute belief that they are the fastest ones on the grid and everyone else is in their way. Put another way: Constant Hotlap Syndrome.

It's also pretty easy to think you're fast when at least half the field is just getting out of his way to save their race. I know I took up the mentality of, it's better to lose one spot than five or six when he takes me out. I held this mentality until the last race at Laguna. I put up a fight for my spot and his true colors came out.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Am I the only person that uses the large, full course, fixed position map? Everyone makes a big deal about it, but I don't use it for close proximity racing at all. If I get a big lead or run off I can use it to judge gaps and that's it. The rest of the time I use the look back, left, right, listen, and my prior knowledge of the racer to judge their position and most likely move. That's why I race more conservatively around unfamiliar racers, but have no problem following (or being followed by ) Goat lap after lap within two feet of him.

It was my understanding that this is the expected awareness/effort you were to put into racing. Either a lot of people are slacking or I'm doing a lot of extra (but IMO necessary) work.

I have a difficult time adjusting to quick changes in motion when looking left or right (85% optic nerve damage). Map on 2 is very useful for me in getting through tight corners with traffic, but there is a draw back in that it's difficult to see traffic behind you and get back on track safely after an off.

 

[Chiochan]

Sometimes it gets this close!

I'm so glad we're in the same division again!

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

This better not get animated

 

[Luv2Coach]

Your point?

Does not apply to being lapped. It can be flown at any time. Just clarifying the flag definition.

 

[Apmaddock]

Am I the only person that uses the large, full course, fixed position map? Everyone makes a big deal about it, but I don't use it for close proximity racing at all. If I get a big lead or run off I can use it to judge gaps and that's it. The rest of the time I use the look back, left, right, listen, and my prior knowledge of the racer to judge their position and most likely move. That's why I race more conservatively around unfamiliar racers, but have no problem following (or being followed by ) Goat lap after lap within two feet of him.

It was my understanding that this is the expected awareness/effort you were to put into racing. Either a lot of people are slacking or I'm doing a lot of extra (but IMO necessary) work.

I raced that way for a long time and did a decent job staying clean with it. I eventually decided to zoom the map to 2 and am happy that I did.

With the zoomed-in map I can tell almost exactly when I'm clean to pull over without having to switch views. I find this keeps my concentration on the road better. Sometimes I'll still have a peek to the side, but not very often anymore.

I used to want to know where everyone on the track was. I realized, eventually, how unimportant that was. I can see the gap to the car in front of me and I can look back to see the gap to him, too. Everyone else is unimportant. I can't race the pack all at once. I should really just be racing the track if I'm not in a battle with someone.

The only aspect that is more difficult with the zoomed map is track re-entry and the like. It's much more difficult to tell when the road will be clear. When you've skidded into the sand and the adrenaline's pumping, it takes more wits than I've apparently got to figure out where to look for oncoming traffic. Unfortunately, that often means I have to make a guess.

Does not apply to being lapped. It can be flown at any time. Just clarifying the flag definition.

It also doesn't apply to SNAIL Sundays.

 

[Rallywagon]

Sometimes it gets this close!

I'm so glad we're in the same division again!

That its awesome! Better be careful Goat, a Panda might eat you!

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

The blue flag

A light blue flag, sometimes with a diagonal yellow, orange, or red stripe, informs a driver that a faster car is approaching and that the driver should move aside to allow one or more faster cars to pass. During a race, this would usually only be shown to a driver getting lapped, but during practice or qualifying it could be shown to any driver. In most series, the blue flag is not mandatory—drivers obey it only as a courtesy to their fellow racers. In other series, drivers get severely penalized for not yielding or for interfering with the leaders, including getting sent to the pits for the rest of the race. In Formula One, if the driver about to be lapped ignores three waved blue flags in a row, he is required to make a drive-through penalty.

I understand that as a courtesy to let faster drivers pass you in practice or qualifying.

*****this flag with strip is not used in FIA*************


In FIA only light blue is used.
d) Light Blue flag:

This should normally be waved, as an indication to a driver that he is about to be overtaken. It has different meanings during practice and the race.

At all times : - A stationary flag should be displayed to a driver leaving the pits if traffic is approaching on the track.

During practice :

- Give way to a faster car which is about to overtake you.

During the race :

- The flag should normally be shown to a car about to be lapped and, when shown, the driver concerned must allow the following car to pass at the earliest opportunity.

 

[Luv2Coach]

It won't. I know Ap doesn't like me, and I don't really care. He's had issues with me since day one, regardless of my racecraft improvement. I have raced with a lot of drivers here who have personally witnessed my improvement; of which I still have room for. I am always trying to improve. I thank SNAIL for that.

I had one incident last night and he took it personal. I had just entered the room and ran maybe 3 laps before the race started. I was ice cold. However, that is no excuse. After that incident, I was incident free. I also sent a message to him apologizing. I also admitted to him, my temper got the best of me in a race at Seca and I got aggressive in the corkscrew and he paid me back; no problem, I deserved it. We called it even. I am by no means perfect, nor claim to be. I apologize for making the mistake.

As the replays will show, I avoided contact on many occasions last night as well as last week.

It is out in the open. I respect everyone here and I am not going to get in a pissing contest with anyone. If one does not like me, fine; that is on their heart, not mine. My heart is clear.

Finally, I would prefer my ID be used if I am the topic of discussion. That way I don't have to guess as to whether or not someone is displeased with me. I will respectfully discuss any issue, but I'm not going to participate in a heated discussion. Anger achieves nothing.

 

[Luv2Coach]

It also doesn't apply to SNAIL Sundays.

I never said it did apply to SNAIL Sundays. I was simply providing the definition of the flag as you were incorrect on its application.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Something interesting that I found on an iracing site. ..

the onus isn't all on the driver being lapped. Something for the overtaking drivers to remember is that, due to both reaction time and server latency issues, following another car closely while approaching a braking zone is not a safe action. The risk of rear-ending the driver ahead generally outweighs the possible gain. This risk is especially high when following a slower, less experienced driver, as their braking point could be much earlier than yours, or inconsistent from lap to lap. A better idea, as a driver trying to lap or pass, would be to pop to the inside before the beginning of the braking zone, or lift off early and create a bit of a gap, then use your later braking and/or higher apex and exit speed to overtake cleanly on the next straight.

 

[Handlebar]

I say this because I feel there is a bit of a "wild west" lawlessness in Wednesday night practice and there is no reason why it shouldn't have the same standards as Sunday night. It should be a slightly slowed down and less intense evening where we can practice, especially considering it's a mixed division event. Hey, a D3 driver is ahead of you? No need to run him out of town. There is this thing called a brake pedal (button).

This contributed to my non participation in practice Yesterday. Yes, I was tired, I was already frustrated, and knowing I was likely to be punted or slammed again hardly felt like a 'practice' for clean racing.

 

[DJones]

Sometimes it gets this close!

I'm so glad we're in the same division again!

I'm glad we're together again too! I just don't know what to make of that picture... Neither of them are spinning

I raced that way for a long time and did a decent job staying clean with it. I eventually decided to zoom the map to 2 and am happy that I did.

With the zoomed-in map I can tell almost exactly when I'm clean to pull over without having to switch views. I find this keeps my concentration on the road better. Sometimes I'll still have a peek to the side, but not very often anymore.

I used to want to know where everyone on the track was. I realized, eventually, how unimportant that was. I can see the gap to the car in front of me and I can look back to see the gap to him, too. Everyone else is unimportant. I can't race the pack all at once. I should really just be racing the track if I'm not in a battle with someone.

The only aspect that is more difficult with the zoomed map is track re-entry and the like. It's much more difficult to tell when the road will be clear. When you've skidded into the sand and the adrenaline's pumping, it takes more wits than I've apparently got to figure out where to look for oncoming traffic. Unfortunately, that often means I have to make a guess.

Hmm I'll have to try that at next weeks practice. I rarely use the map at all though, I can't risk looking away considering how easily distracted I am. Next practice I'll see what I think of it, thanks for the detailed response 👍

That its awesome! Better be careful Goat, a Panda might eat you!

A panda is merely fat and lazy, until it gets hungry

 

[Apmaddock]

It won't. I know Ap doesn't like me, and I don't really care. He's had issues with me since day one, regardless of my racecraft improvement. I have raced with a lot of drivers here who have personally witnessed my improvement; of which I still have room for. I am always trying to improve. I thank SNAIL for that.

I had one incident last night and he took it personal. I had just entered the room and ran maybe 3 laps before the race started. I was ice cold. However, that is no excuse. After that incident, I was incident free. I also sent a message to him apologizing. I also admitted to him, my temper got the best of me in a race at Seca and I got aggressive in the corkscrew and he paid me back; no problem, I deserved it. We called it even. I am by no means perfect, nor claim to be. I apologize for making the mistake.

As the replays will show, I avoided contact on many occasions last night as well as last week.

It is out in the open. I respect everyone here and I am not going to get in a pissing contest with anyone. If one does not like me, fine; that is on their heart, not mine. My heart is clear.

Finally, I would prefer my ID be used if I am the topic of discussion. That way I don't have to guess as to whether or not someone is displeased with me. I will respectfully discuss any issue, but I'm not going to participate in a heated discussion. Anger achieves nothing.

I have and have had no preconceived notions of anyone. You wrecked me in one of our first races together and I made a complaint. You refuted it and I tried to make you see what I saw. I held no grudge but you seemed to think that I did.

Since then I've been in several other incidents or close calls with you. The corkscrew was one of the most recent. I did not "pay you back" afterward. I looked at that race again and wish the incidents would have gone to the stewards. I really doubt it would have been seen as an eye for an eye.

Last night was absurd. That was my first race of the night, as well. You got into my side and made my bounce off of a wall shortly after the start, then all-out pitted me during breaking mid-track. You drove on instead. I got to "race" by myself for the rest of the race.

I left the room not out of anger but because I couldn't see someone else on-track. I decided it wasn't worth trying to fix it, particularly because I was frustrated enough already, so I went to the other practice room.

I'm not holding things against you, it merely seems that way because you continuously find ways to raise my ire.

Hmm I'll have to try that at next weeks practice. I rarely use the map at all though, I can't risk looking away considering how easily distracted I am. Next practice I'll see what I think of it, thanks for the detailed response 👍

Heh. I know what you mean. That's why I've taken the leaderboard off of my HUD, too.

You're welcome.

 

[Luv2Coach]

A better idea, as a driver trying to lap or pass, would be to pop to the inside before the beginning of the braking zone, or lift off early and create a bit of a gap, then use your later braking and/or higher apex and exit speed to overtake cleanly on the next straight.

This is where I have issues: The breaking zone. Say I do this (pop inside...) before the zone but do not have overlap. Has the track now been divided into two parts; inside line & outside line? If so, the inside driver must stay inside throughout the entire turn into the straight: correct?

In my experience overall, when I am the outside driver, I get pushed out by the inside driver because he doesn't stay inside throughout the turn all the way into the straight. I have done this and been accused of dive bombing. Therefore, I don't even attempt it anymore.



I am not talking about anyone specifically. Just to be perfectly clear. If I were, it would be in a PM.

 

[kcheeb]

This is where I have issues: The breaking zone. Say I do this (pop inside...) before the zone but do not have overlap. Has the track now been divided into two parts; inside line & outside line? If so, the inside driver must stay inside throughout the entire turn into the straight: correct?

In my experience overall, when I am the outside driver, I get pushed out by the inside driver because he doesn't stay inside throughout the turn all the way into the straight. I have done this and been accused of dive bombing. Therefore, I don't even attempt it anymore.



I am not talking about anyone specifically. Just to be perfectly clear. If I were, it would be in a PM.

I mostly use early braking or back off a little before a corner to create a small gap. I can then catch up by using less brake and hopefully get a run coming out of the corner.

Judgement of how early or how large a gap to leave is getting better, but still causes issues from time to time. Typically the bumps are small as the speeds (or differential in speeds) are much less, near the end of the braking zone when the contact happens. It doesn't usually force the driver in front to go into recovery mode.

 

[JLBowler]

This is where I have issues: The breaking zone. Say I do this (pop inside...) before the zone but do not have overlap. Has the track now been divided into two parts; inside line & outside line? If so, the inside driver must stay inside throughout the entire turn into the straight: correct?

In my experience overall, when I am the outside driver, I get pushed out by the inside driver because he doesn't stay inside throughout the turn all the way into the straight. I have done this and been accused of dive bombing. Therefore, I don't even attempt it anymore.



I am not talking about anyone specifically. Just to be perfectly clear. If I were, it would be in a PM.

The way I interpet it is that if you are the trailing driver and don't establish overlap at the moment of turn in, you have no rights to the corner and the lead driver can take whatever line they want.

 

[Drgreenthumb977]

When you are slow with any cars or tracks you have 2 positive choices in a ahead position... Play defensive (but need to gain speed) for no frustration or you let pass him( not the train just 1 racer) and you follow him to gain speed and take a look about his race line to rejoin. In fact you have more advantage to follow him than slowed him!!!!!

 

[Luv2Coach]

...I've been in several other incidents or close calls with you. The corkscrew was one of the most recent. I did not "pay you back" afterward. I looked at that race again and wish the incidents would have gone to the stewards. I really doubt it would have been seen as an eye for an eye.

Wow. If that wasn't a payback on that incident, then you made a mistake too. I admitted to mine, but you refuse to admit yours. You definitely inside-outed me. If you don't see that, then ok. We will once again disagree.

Last night was absurd. That was my first race of the night, as well. You got into my side and made my bounce off of a wall shortly after the start, then all-out pitted me during breaking mid-track. You drove on instead. I got to "race" by myself for the rest of the race.

I addressed this too and apologized, minus the start. The start was rough and I got bounced around too. My error or not, I do not know. I may have been knocked into you. I just don't remember. I am willing to know should anyone have the replay. If I am in the wrong, I am sorry. Like I said earlier, it was an incident free night after that race.

I left the room not out of anger but because I couldn't see someone else on-track. I decided it wasn't worth trying to fix it, particularly because I was frustrated enough already, so I went to the other practice room.

I apologize for misinterpreting your exit. I took it that way because of our history. I assumed you left b/c of me.

I'm not holding things against you, it merely seems that way because you continuously find ways to raise my ire.

May be due to our being competitive. It is not intentional.

 

[Luv2Coach]

The way I interpet it is that if you are the trailing driver and don't establish overlap at the moment of turn in, you have no rights to the corner and the lead driver can take whatever line they want.

That's what I thought, but according Joe's post from his resource it seems to conflict our way of racing. In any case, I will continue to err on the side of caution and make sure of overlap.

On a personal note, I like Joe's quoted resource provided the drivers understand that it would then divide the track into inside/outside lanes throughout the turn into the straight. However, I understand our rule and will abide as such.

 

[jobyone]

In a rare event I am actually home and will be online from 4:30-6:00 est. anyone likely to be around for practice/fun?