1.17 update major issue *READ*

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

If final is at, say, 2.500, you get [6.000/4.000/3.000/2.250/1.750/1.500] for x top speed setting. Move the final to 5.000, wiggle the top speed slider to reset the ratios to match the new final, and you'll get something close to [3.000/2.000/1.500/1.125/0.875/0.750]

Well, seems you are right, I just checked and indeed the individual gears do get a different set of available ratios after doing the "flip", that's what I get for working off the top off my head and not having the game running at the time of posting.

However, it's still a "trick" in my opinion. You need to fiddle with a setting that does not exist in real life (speed slider) in order to force the game into giving you longer gears, even when the max speed and final gear are the same. There is nothing in the tips/hints box that indicates that changing the final gear, flicking the max speed setting up/down one setting and immediately putting it back to where it was as well as the final gear gives you wildly different gear ratios. Instead, it pretty much says that you define gear ratios by selecting a maximum speed, more speed = less acceleration especially on hills. That's it, no where does it say that by flicking a setting back and forth will almost double your gear length. Somebody had to find this trick.

Example:
First pic, everything on default. Changed final gear ratio to 2.000 only.
Second pic, everything on default. Changed final gear to 5.000, flicked the speed slider from 193 to 199 and back to 193, changed final ratio back to 2.000. Max speed and final gear are the same and now the individual gears have gone bonkers.

If that's by design then that is a terrible implementation by PD. Unless I am having a brain fart, they don't explain how to do this, there's no reason why it should do this, and it's even more baffling why we can't just have the entire range of ratios available from the get go without having to tweak a speed slider and final gear back and forth, back to the same as what they were to unlock a different, restricted range of ratios.

I would still call it a bug personally.

 

[Brewguy44]

Not going to be doing any Tunes until this gets Fixed Why can't PD get there S:censored: together and do it right!!! C'mon how hard can it be?

 

[Mike_grpA]

Again, I don't know what game you're playing but GT6 gives you the same road speed at the same rpm given identical gear ratios and final drive ratio.

Edit - I read your post again. When you said top speed slider, did you really mean final drive ratio?

Your post would make sense then.

No, I meant the top speed slider, after all, that's the whole point of flipping the transmission is it not? if the top speed slider doesn't affect the rest of the ratios at all then why does anyone do the flip trick? It would be no different to just changing the individual ratios and final drive. All it does is gives you a wider window than you would've had otherwise, which is why I don't understand the point of even having it instead of just having a wider variety of ratios.

 

[Furinkazen]

Over in the FRL league a couple members have done digging and claimed that it does NOT affect community mode club lobbys / events.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Over in the FRL league a couple members have done digging and claimed that it does NOT affect community mode club lobbys / events.

This is good news, thanks!

 

[twitcher]

SMH

Flipping the transmission is not a glitch. It's been around since GT4, maybe even GT3. If it was a glitch or bug, it would have been corrected.

I'm not saying that the current way we set up transmissions in GT6 isn't odd as hell....and I'll admit, I still don't fully understand it myself after all these years...but it's not a glitch. It is a totally legitimate way of adjusting the sliders provided to us.




The glitch is that customized transmissions are being reset to default. That should not be happening at all, and it needs to be fixed ASAP.

Well, now that I find out about the "tranny flip" trick, I don't feel so bad about being slow or losing races online. I mean, if the point of GT is to find endless little tricks in the code then I'm not that interested.

It's racing...the point is to be fast. In both real life, and in GT6, people literally spend hundreds of hours testing, tuning, and going through data, just to cut a lap time by 0.00X, or squeeze out an extra .25mph.

Don't hate just because someone spent more time fiddling with the tuning menues, and thus figured out how to tune a faster car than you (or copied a tune of the web, which you could do just as easily).

If you want racing where tuning is a non-issue, race stock cars, or in a league/club which prohibits tuning. Otherwise, anything shy of game-save modding is fair game.

 

[Mike_grpA]

SMH

It's racing...the point is to be fast. In both real life, and in GT6, people literally spend hundreds of hours testing, tuning, and going through data, just to cut a lap time by 0.00X, or squeeze out an extra .25mph.

Don't hate just because someone spent more time fiddling with the tuning menues, and thus figured out how to tune a faster car than you (or copied a tune of the web, which you could do just as easily).

If you want racing where tuning is a non-issue, race stock cars, or in a league/club which prohibits tuning. Otherwise, anything shy of game-save modding is fair game.

I can see both sides of this. You can't complain because someone has more tuning knowledge than you. As you say, there are always stock lobbies.

However, I also dislike how unrealistic the tuning in gt games is. We don't all have hundreds of hours to spend on trial and error tuning, to find ridiculously unrealistic settings that somehow are the fastest. I once dominated a race in an online series with a car that had much higher front ride height than rear, max rear spring siffness, min front, no camber, -0.60 front and rear toe, a huge rearward brake bias, and max front downforce, min rear. No way anyone would set a real car up like that haha, but it was a beast in gt6.

It would be much better to have realistic tuning so that you can use logic to tune cars, based on real world knowledge, rather than having to know all the little "tricks", or spend an eternity trial and error tuning and testing every single change to find those tricks.

If I didn't have the net, I doubt I would've even tried 0 camber or reverse ride height.

 

[ChocolateSiao]

No wonder i felt it weird when i was trying to break my record during the 500pp midway seasonal.

 

[twitcher]

I can see both sides of this. You can't complain because someone has more tuning knowledge than you. As you say, there are always stock lobbies.

However, I also dislike how unrealistic the tuning in gt games is. We don't all have hundreds of hours to spend on trial and error tuning, to find ridiculously unrealistic settings that somehow are the fastest. I once dominated a race in an online series with a car that had much higher front ride height than rear, max rear spring siffness, min front, no camber, -0.60 front and rear toe, a huge rearward brake bias, and max front downforce, min rear. No way anyone would set a real car up like that haha, but it was a beast in gt6.

It would be much better to have realistic tuning so that you can use logic to tune cars, based on real world knowledge, rather than having to know all the little "tricks", or spend an eternity trial and error tuning and testing every single change to find those tricks.

I didn't realise you were referring to being turned off by the somewhat "gimmicky" nature of GT6's tuning. I shouldn't have assumed, my bad. What you just said pretty much sums up what I think about tuning in GT6

If I didn't have the net, I doubt I would've even tried 0 camber or reverse ride height.

Oddly enough, that's pretty close to how I set up most of my drift cars

 

[kukenjitsu]

Well, seems you are right, I just checked and indeed the individual gears do get a different set of available ratios after doing the "flip", that's what I get for working off the top off my head and not having the game running at the time of posting.

However, it's still a "trick" in my opinion. You need to fiddle with a setting that does not exist in real life (speed slider) in order to force the game into giving you longer gears, even when the max speed and final gear are the same. There is nothing in the tips/hints box that indicates that changing the final gear, flicking the max speed setting up/down one setting and immediately putting it back to where it was as well as the final gear gives you wildly different gear ratios. Instead, it pretty much says that you define gear ratios by selecting a maximum speed, more speed = less acceleration especially on hills. That's it, no where does it say that by flicking a setting back and forth will almost double your gear length. Somebody had to find this trick.

Example:
First pic, everything on default. Changed final gear ratio to 2.000 only.
Second pic, everything on default. Changed final gear to 5.000, flicked the speed slider from 193 to 199 and back to 193, changed final ratio back to 2.000. Max speed and final gear are the same and now the individual gears have gone bonkers.

That's because when you move the top speed slider, its like opening up the gearbox and pulling out and changing each and every set of gears, or maybe getting a completely separate gearbox, so you can reach that specific top speed based on the final gear ratio. When you then reduce the final gear ratio with those gears, the top speed is extended because then the total gear ratio of the system is extended.

Let's do the math: Take the 6th gear ratio and multiply it by the final gear ratio to get the total gear ratio, and set that equal to 193 mph.

(0.928 x 2.000) = 193 mph

Then, if you look at the second set of numbers and do the math, then you should realize that the math won't be the same.

(0.606 x 2.000) ≠ 193 mph

So then, if we do the math:

(0.606 x 2.000) = 295.5 mph

And now we know that:

(0.928 x 2.000) ≠ (0.606 x 2.000)

For them to have the same total gear ratio (and, by effect, the same top speed), you would have to set the final gear to about 3.063 for the second set of gears, or about 1.306 for the first set of gears.

Essentially, you can do this in real life, but just like in the game, it's complicated, and it would yield the same results.

 

[elston87]

Fantastic. PoDi has literally killed half the time that I spend on GT6; most cars that have a full-custom tranny slapped on them have the gears extremely close, so I always tweak the tranny to match the car's horsepower or the course appropriately. More often than not, I have to widen the gears to get more speed on the appropriate sections.

Now with this bug, what am I gonna do apart from driving cars stock? Egh; usually they gimme a reason to go back and play for a few minutes/hours, but now this happens?

This game is turning out to be like GTA V; one year and a few months later, the game still isn't finished, and new bugs seem to always breed within this big nest of code no matter how many of them PoDi manages to exterminate. I have a pretty big love/hate relationship with GT6, just like GTA V.

I realized that my complaining should be appropriately posted in another thread, but I had to get it out, because...come on guys; this is just getting silly. Glad to hear that it hasn't affected some of the online gameplay, but me being an offline player...ugh...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Well, seems you are right, I just checked and indeed the individual gears do get a different set of available ratios after doing the "flip", that's what I get for working off the top off my head and not having the game running at the time of posting.

However, it's still a "trick" in my opinion. You need to fiddle with a setting that does not exist in real life (speed slider) in order to force the game into giving you longer gears, even when the max speed and final gear are the same. There is nothing in the tips/hints box that indicates that changing the final gear, flicking the max speed setting up/down one setting and immediately putting it back to where it was as well as the final gear gives you wildly different gear ratios. Instead, it pretty much says that you define gear ratios by selecting a maximum speed, more speed = less acceleration especially on hills. That's it, no where does it say that by flicking a setting back and forth will almost double your gear length. Somebody had to find this trick.

Example:
First pic, everything on default. Changed final gear ratio to 2.000 only.
Second pic, everything on default. Changed final gear to 5.000, flicked the speed slider from 193 to 199 and back to 193, changed final ratio back to 2.000. Max speed and final gear are the same and now the individual gears have gone bonkers.



If that's by design then that is a terrible implementation by PD. Unless I am having a brain fart, they don't explain how to do this, there's no reason why it should do this, and it's even more baffling why we can't just have the entire range of ratios available from the get go without having to tweak a speed slider and final gear back and forth, back to the same as what they were to unlock a different, restricted range of ratios.

I would still call it a bug personally.

The ability to alter final and top speed ( auto set ) is important for me to fix the wrong gearing often found in GT6 cars Sometimes I can use default final, sometimes I have to wrestle the final to certain value and move the top speed slider to find the gear range I need to have to correct the often 'broken gearing " of stock car in GT6. I lost count how many replicas I have built with gearing corrections, maybe every 2 cars I drove The latest ones are the Yellow Bird, Diablo ( GTR, SV-R, Base ) and Murcielago + Aventador SV. Often cars with center diff ( AWD ) do not work correctly ( incorrect speed ) due incorrect gear ratio and when I have to fix it, I found PD not calculating the transfer gear ratio on custom transmission final drive. The Tremec series gearbox used on US cars also often have one of the gears needs correction, due to the low value nature of gears and final drive, playing with final and top speed slider is paramount.

Often times, I also want to adapt real life close ratio kit that works so well in GT6, and I need the top speed slider to get into their range of values. The bonkers range of value at times helpful to get into the correct value.

PD should have just allow us to input gear ratio value individually

 

[trustjab]

Adjusting top speed worked for me on the latest seasonals.

 

[eran0004]

Adjusting top speed worked for me on the latest seasonals.

You can still adjust the gearbox. What you can't do anymore is to set the final drive ratio without also setting the top speed after.

So if you first adjust top speed and then adjust final drive, the gearbox will return to a default setting.
If you first adjust final drive and then adjust top speed, your gearbox settings will be saved.

So, the procedure to set the gear box, while we wait for a bug fix to be implemented, would be:

1. Set final drive.
2. Set top speed.
3. Set individual gear ratios.

Edit: I think I may have found the culprit behind this. Check the gear ratios of the Alpine VGT, the 1st gear has a ratio of 13.660 and a final drive of 1.150. To make such extreme settings possible they may have been forced to tweak the transmission script and while they did that they accidentally broke something...

It's interesting though that it still seems to work online. Would that indicate that there's a different script for online racing, possibly more streamlined than the offline script?

 

[pogledrip]

Setting aside the rights and wrongs of how the gears are set,is it only me that gets the feeling this is not going to be sorted out ? Usually when theres a bug/glitch its fixed ASAP,however this has been over a day now and still no resolution...I sincerely hope that i'm wrong.
When I got back into GT(hadn't played since GT1)and found the planet,I didn't get why people were constantly complaining about this and that,its a great game,but as I got more and more into it I could start to see their point,naff AI,lack of offline content,constant bugs and weird glitches,being forced to drive PD's way(srf forced on for example)etc,and now this...
Much as I love playing GT6(its the only game I play)its getting to the point where i'm considering jacking it in.I've heard good things about Grid Autosport,might be time for a change,which would be a great shame...
Anyways carry on...

 

[Pubs16]

I've just done a heap of testing in club lobbies and thankfully all my settings have not changed!
Was so worried when I saw this thread today, lots going on this weekend for online racing.

 

[Imari]

I would still call it a bug personally.

The flip has always been kind of a bug, or at least a very counter-intuitively implemented feature, but it's been around for so long and is so widely used that removing it at this point seems like it does more damage than just leaving it.

I'd expect them to fix it for GT7, but they should have just left it alone in GT6, imo. Doing this now breaks too much work that people have already done for a fix that really doesn't make that big of a difference. And the people it affects the most are the people who have spent heaps of time and are still playing after 16 months. Those are your most loyal customers, not the ones that you want to irritate.

I can't imagine many people thinking "thank God they finally fixed that!", whereas I think there's more than a few that thought of kicking a puppy at this news.

 

[Tijee]

I can't imagine many people thinking "thank God they finally fixed that!", whereas I think there's more than a few that thought of kicking a puppy at this news.

I think there's also a lot of people (including me) who have always considered the flip as the normal way to setup the transmission. Should have taken the blue pill...

 

[Mike_grpA]

It's interesting though that it still seems to work online. Would that indicate that there's a different script for online racing, possibly more streamlined than the offline script?

The physics are slightly different online, or at least the way the cars react to set up changes is. I never do set ups offline now because of it. You'll get the car exactly how you like it offline, then take it into an online race, and it's a dog. So very weird, but so very PD lol.

Back OT I did some practice just now for the CORE V8 series, and trans tuning was all that was left for my set up for the next round, lucky me I was thinking 'till someone said online isn't bugged, which relieved me so much to hear lol. I can now also confirm that online is fine. I fine tuned every gear, including flipping the trans first, then setting the final drive and each individual ratio, testing in between each change, and it all responded as per usual, and no resetting thankfully.

Luckily I have all my tunes written down on a notepad document, because I figured something would go wrong knowing PD's track record for introducing odd, game breaking bugs, so I'm a bit paranoid about that lol.

 

[xiando]

*delete*

 

[CSLACR]

People calling transmission "flipping" a "bug" have absolutely NO IDEA what they're talking about.
For starters, it's been around since at least GT4.
Second off, realistic gearing can NOT always be obtained without "flipping" your transmission.

But I guess if fanboys need an excuse for PD bringing us "free bugs" they'll make whatever they can.

It's an intelligent way around unrealistic limitations of PD's decade-old tuning crapbox.

 

[Dr Fourtrack]

I had adjusted by Brera for the 450pp Madrid Seasonal so that i was in the medals but ran out of time to try my last tweek. The next day I went for the Vision GT freebies, now I'm back to Madrid and spent ages trying to understand what the 🤬 was going on.
I'd spent ages getting this so I could get the Seasonal and now it's wrecked.

 

[Jaywalker]

I had adjusted by Brera for the 450pp Madrid Seasonal so that i was in the medals but ran out of time to try my last tweek. The next day I went for the Vision GT freebies, now I'm back to Madrid and spent ages trying to understand what the 🤬 was going on.
I'd spent ages getting this so I could get the Seasonal and now it's wrecked.

See post #134 above.

 

[Cowboy]

Am i the only one who didn't get affected by the update. My transmission stays the same no matter where I go.

 

[eran0004]

Am i the only one who didn't get affected by the update. My transmission stays the same no matter where I go.

As long as you did set the top speed after you set final drive you're fine. It's only when you adjust final drive after setting top speed that the transmission reverts to a default setting.

My Alpine rally car replica is fine as well.

 

[Voodoovaj]

This is the perfect thing for my new Final Drive tuner

But it does seem like this was a silly bug to fix on the surface. I wonder what the motivation was.

 

[eran0004]

This is the perfect thing for my new Final Drive tuner

But it does seem like this was a silly bug to fix on the surface. I wonder what the motivation was.

It's a bug, not a bug fix

It just happened to disable another "bug" (it seems to be disputed wether or not the transmission flip thing is a bug) in the process.

Edit: Actually, if there ever was a bug (or intended feature) that made the car slightly faster if the final drive ratio was lower, it's still there. Because you can still set the final drive to whatever you like and build your transmission from there. You don't need to do a transmission flip to obtain that.

 

[Garage13]

That's because when you move the top speed slider, its like opening up the gearbox and pulling out and changing each and every set of gears, or maybe getting a completely separate gearbox, so you can reach that specific top speed based on the final gear ratio. When you then reduce the final gear ratio with those gears, the top speed is extended because then the total gear ratio of the system is extended.

Let's do the math: Take the 6th gear ratio and multiply it by the final gear ratio to get the total gear ratio, and set that equal to 193 mph.

(0.928 x 2.000) = 193 mph

Then, if you look at the second set of numbers and do the math, then you should realize that the math won't be the same.

(0.606 x 2.000) ≠ 193 mph

So then, if we do the math:

(0.606 x 2.000) = 295.5 mph

And now we know that:

(0.928 x 2.000) ≠ (0.606 x 2.000)

For them to have the same total gear ratio (and, by effect, the same top speed), you would have to set the final gear to about 3.063 for the second set of gears, or about 1.306 for the first set of gears.

Essentially, you can do this in real life, but just like in the game, it's complicated, and it would yield the same results.

I actually have a book that contains a section on optimum gear ratio theory and yes to get the required ratios factor in things that polyphony doesn't give us so we can figure it out like tire size(345/55R20 as an example) that would be required to figure out what the Tire rolling diameter is.I could give you the formula but I don't have the book with me at the moment.
The transmission flip as far as I am aware you can do since GT3,never tried it on GT1 OR GT2.The main issue with the transmission flip in GT3-GT6 is that the layout was much easier to do in GT5 because it told you what your theoretical top speed was. Mine was always ridiculous

I know this may sound somewhat noobish but I do also have a book on real life race car development and tuning. The author worked on Foyt's and Iyckx's cars along with some other names you might recognize

 

[Otaliema]

So for all this all we have effectively lost is the tighter gear ratio's on the flipped transmissions? This will slow the cars down a tad but a well made transmission will only be affected a little bit. Just have to rebuild the transmission for every track right now.
Set your Final drive to place you normally would at the end of your transmission tuning.
Set your top speed to what you need +2 clicks if you reduce your last gear to shortest possible.
Build your transmission.
Honestly it makes more sense and it easier this way. More realistic, sorta. PITA? yes.

 

[Speed Fiend]

Oh lawd teh misinformation.



GT1's showing of individual gear speeds was excellent. I *think* GT2 had the 25-position autoset and know for a fact GT3/4 did. GT5/6 use the exact same system (still 25 increments too) just with autoset rebranded as "top speed".



Ummm... You wouldn't be able to set the same gears doing so. You'd wind up with a completely different set of ratios available.

Example of how it actually works (arbitrary numbers but the math should be fairly correct)
If final is at, say, 2.500, you get [6.000/4.000/3.000/2.250/1.750/1.500] for x top speed setting. Move the final to 5.000, wiggle the top speed slider to reset the ratios to match the new final, and you'll get something close to [3.000/2.000/1.500/1.125/0.875/0.750]. Then when you move the final gear back down, HEY! Closely spaced gears, except long!



That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works. If you don't give how you set the trans up, nobody will be able to get the ratios you used. I've been known to use arbitrary base finals to set ratios as I generally use minimum final (there's a very minor gain to be had in acceleration from doing so while maintaining the same overall ratios).


Anyway, point being it isn't exactly a glitch. It's been baked in to Gran Turismo for at least two console generations, they wouldn't simply say "NOPE THIS ISN'T HOW THIS WORKS ANYMORE" without saying something about it. Therefore, the whole "yeah let's just default your gearing" thing going on with 1.17 is in fact the glitch, not gearing working how it was always intended to.

EXACTLY!!! (why don't these amateurs get it?) THIS IS A GLITCH not a fix to some perceived manipulation of the system. the gearbox is not returning to default only the top speed slider and final drive go back to default the numbered gears all slide far left!!!!!!! which is not their default position thus IT IS A GLITCH