10 reasons why Ferrari Challenge is better than GT5P

[Hun200kmh]

Has anyone played FC with an EX and had a "normal" experience?

When it was released, I tried to play FC with a 200º wheel (the old Driving Force, bought to play GT3) , and I had a hard time to keep the car straight, so I chose to play it with the pad.

Back then the deadzone was huge, and we didn't have the option to change the wheel settings. When the patches were released I was playing GT5P again, and only got back to FC when my old DF broke and I got myself a G25, so I can't help you with settings for a 200º wheel. Try 750F's settings, the FF on high makes the deadzone almost non-existent, and it seems logical that setting the wheel sensitivity on "low" could solve the problem you described.

 

[zazaza]

I have both games and I play them with G25. FC it's an amazing game that have a lot of great feautures, great physics, amazing car sounds and great tracks that arn't in any GT. But I always play GT5P because Gran Turismo have something that other games havn't.. it's like the feeling that GT gives to you, GT5P it's a demo and I don't get it bored, it has hundred of hours of playing, GT makes you have a lot of fun.

 

[Biggles]

As there are some interesting new online events, I jumped back into GT5P last night, after weeks of only playing Ferrari Challenge. After adjusting to the completely different feel of the game, I enjoyed myself. BUT: anyone thinking GT5P's physics are more "realistic" than FC is delusional.

It was more obvious than ever how understeery GT5P really is. In FC the tires grip the road & as the car corners, the car starts to "lean out" over the tires as the weight shifts to the outside, until the grip is overcome by the centrifugal force & the tire start to slip. Driving fast & in control in FC means constantly balancing the shifting center of gravity of the car.

In GT5P the car's over-riding tendency under cornering is to understeer - sliding sideways with almost no sense of the car's weight shifting. This is most obvious on the Eiger track, where in spite of the extreme, downhill, off-camber corners, my Golf GTi stayed as rigid & flat on the road as an F1 car. No sense of weight transfer - the only thing required was to balance the understeer with throttle & steering. What a contrast with the brilliant & demanding challenge of driving the downhill sections of Spa in FC.

Honestly, anyone who has not yet given FC a long, serious drive is really missing out...

 

[GT-Mauri-34]

i had both games and fc isnt comparable with gt prologue.
the physics arent realistic in fc and for a finish game (gt is only a better beta)like fc my opinion is ****.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I have a feeling of "deja vu" with this thread. I remember back in the day of the discussions between GT4 and Enthusia's physics 99% of users here saying GT4 physics were perfect. Aparentely (and thankfully) someone at PD realized they weren't considering how different GT5P is from what GT4 was. Did they read those discussions? Did they try EPR and realized something had to be done in the physics of their next GT? I don't know, but I thank them for the major physics improvement from GT4 to GT5P.

Now I can only hope they are still working on the car-physics and FFB implementation for GT5. A big game, with awesome graphics, hundreds or cars, 50 tracks, day/night/day, sun and rain, with better physics and FFB than GT5P ... that would be my perfect GT5.

 

[steve30x]

I have ferrari Challenge and find the cars to be way too understeery. I much rather GT5P than Ferrari Challenge any day.

 

[jjaisli]

I have ferrari Challenge and find the cars to be way too understeery. I much rather GT5P than Ferrari Challenge any day.

Well, it depends both on the car and on the circumstances. 'Road Cars' like the 550M/360M/575M/355B, etc, all understeer quite a bit, especially under braking and even more so coming in 'too hot' on off camber corners. But the challenge cars and especially pure racing cars are very different.

Drive the 360GT or the 250LM or the 512M (all rear engine cars) and tell me if you still think they understeer. Of course all cars will understeer under certain circumstances. And I don't think it's unrealistic. Cars like the 250GTO with forward weight bias and skinny tires also tend to understeer initially and then flip to oversteer as you come on or off the throttle. But I think the beauty of FC's force feed back is that it manages to emulate this transfer of weight and balance so well. You can almost feel the wheels fighting for grip. You can feel the balance of a car changing as it switches between understeer and oversteer. You can feel the weight of the car shift from side to side in a way that GT5 just doesn't convey.

How I think GT5 is more realistic (and this may seem silly) is that it's possible to drive the car slowly and the car will react acccordingly in a docile manner. In FC, even with the pedal sensitivity set to low, the game somehow assumes you want to give generous inputs of gas and brake and the cars can seem very nervous and twitchy even when driven slowly. You could easily parallel park a car in GT5. In FC it would be pretty tough.

But they're racing games so this is a non issue. And when you push the cars, I think GT5 emulates how we might WISH cars drove in the real world but FC better emulates how they really do. (Not that either are anywhere close to perfect.)

I will also mention that visually, GT5P is SOOO far ahead of anything else that initial impressions of any other sim fall short from that alone. But eventually you get past the impressive graphics and concentrate on the racing.

 

[DaddyVDUB]

Thats so true at first I had a hard time getting past the graphics of FC.I really didnt like the game,but because I was tring to drive like in GT5P WONT WORK. FC WONT let you get away with poor driving choices,you hit a turn too fast guess what happens? You must pay more attention to braking,weight shift,and hitting the apex. I too really love how you can "feel" the input from the tires. Dont try to make this game into Gran Turismo, DO what the car is telling you to do and you will come to terms with it. Man if F1CE had the kind of force feedback that FC has I would never stop playing.

 

[Biggles]

The contrast between FC & GT5P is reminiscent of the difference between Enthusia & GT4. In both cases people tend to accept the GT series as being more accurate because it is the "norm" - it is what people are used to. It takes some serious time & commitment to FC (as with Enthusia) before you realise that the physics aren't "weird", but are actually attempting something that the GT series hasn't (so far).

After driving in Enthusia a lot , going back to GT4 it was very obvious what the shortcomings of GT4 were. The same is true of FC & GT5P. GT5P is a big improvement over GT4, but it still does not model some of the things that FC does (primarily weight-transfer & the on-&-off feel of tire grip. I can still really enjoy GT5P but it definitely feels like there is something lacking compared to FC

Finally, I really wish people would not post comments like: "I tried FC & I think it sucks!" unless they have spent some serious time getting used to the game (at least 20 - 30 hours).

 

[mu22stang]

I think FC is a great game, and so is GT5P. I think if people actually drove with the correct tires on GT5P the similarities between the two would start to materialize. They are different, but comparing a road car with S1s to any car on FC is nonesense. If you think cars in FC are too understeering AND are trying to make a comparision between FC, GT5P and reality, start racing with N1s-N3s - you will see the light.

 

[Biggles]

In general, the cars in FC do NOT understeer much. That's because many of them (especially the ones people tend to race in the game) are RACE cars, presumably with racing tires. However, the non-race cars - the Modena 360 for example - do exhibit understeer.

What struck me last night, running a few laps in the online Eiger event, was that you can throw the car around the corners with no thought about the downhill & off-camber character of the turns, because the car's weight does not shift around, the way it would IRL, & the way it does in FC. This is a BIG part of the driving skill in FC - it forces you to plan your line through the series of corners, not just each single corner. You have to continually re-balance the car.

 

[G.T.Ace]

I am confused why so many people say Ferrari Challenge has oh so realistic physics...
The game is cool, no doubt, but it is not very realistic at all.
The cornering speeds are ridiculous, theres an automatic countersteering which makes steering with the throttle almost impossible, theres no real simulation of centrifugal forces and so on. The only car that is a bit better simulated is the F430 Challenge.

And yes i played it without any driving assists, i played it only in cockpit view (which is also quite ugly in a lot of the cars).

The sound is also not all that great.

 

[Hun200kmh]

... theres an automatic countersteering which makes steering with the throttle almost impossible

That is true on corner-entry IF you play with a controller. FC is in general, much easier to play with a controller than GT5P. However, this "autocorrect" feature, that acts when you understeer on entry (not after that, you can easily "powerslide" yourself coming out of a long corner, like the Monza Parabolica), makes accurate braking critical.

That's why, when I first played this game (did it with a controller), I always kept the "racing line-braking zones" on. A bit too late on the brakes meant you would lose all momentum if you didn't lose the car altogether.

However, there's no steering "autocorrect" assist if you use a wheel. In this case, the front wheels are under your full command.

 

[Biggles]

I am confused why so many people say Ferrari Challenge has oh so realistic physics...
The game is cool, no doubt, but it is not very realistic at all.
The cornering speeds are ridiculous, theres an automatic countersteering which makes steering with the throttle almost impossible, theres no real simulation of centrifugal forces and so on. The only car that is a bit better simulated is the F430 Challenge.

And yes i played it without any driving assists, i played it only in cockpit view (which is also quite ugly in a lot of the cars).

The sound is also not all that great.

I wouldn't say that FC has "oh so realistic physics", but I would say they are more realistic than GT5P's in some (important) ways.

Cornering speeds are high because many of the cars are race cars. For me, the F430 is one of the least interesting cars in FC, but it's the one that most (inexperienced) drivers in FC generally drive.

You can definitely use the throttle to steer in FC. "Pivoting" the car around the the front wheels using oversteer works pretty well in FC.

IMO "centrifugal forces" is precisely what FC does simulate much better than GT5P.

The cockpit view is pretty bad in FC.

The sound (like the graphics) has a bit of an arcadey quality, but it IS loud, raw & fun.

Again, with all due respect, I find myself asking how much did you play FC, how many cars did you drive before you came to your conclusions?

 

[G.T.Ace]

Oh how much.... i rented it for a week and played it almost every day.
I drove the F430 Challene, 575 GTC, 512, F50, 355 Challenge, 348 Challenge and a couple more. The only thing that FC does better than GT5P i would say is the breaking.
The cornering speeds have nothing to do with the vehicles being race cars, because theyre stupid in FC with every vehicle, which also includes road legal cars and i already played enough sims with race cars and watched enough motorsport to know what a "race car" (stupid term there are so many different race cars out there...) is capable of.

GT5P is, compared to sims like M3 Challenge, GTL & LFS, far more realistic than Ferrari Challenge.

Note that i cant drive with wheels because of a handicap, i drove everything with pad (SIXAXIS controller on the PS3 and DualShock2 on PC) so i cant judge force feedback and such, but this also means i can compare the pure physics and car handling perfect.

 

[Biggles]

A week is not long enough IMO. When I bought FC, I was, at first, ready to return it I was so disappointed with it . I stuck with it & after a while began to feel it was "OK". Then I began to feel it was pretty good. Finally, I have to come to think is very good.

I remember thinking the cars cornered "too fast' in FC. Perhaps they do. However, all the cars you mentioned are "race cars". What that means is they have very sticky tires (unlike GT5P, there is no option to switch tires) & significant downforce. The "street cars" in FC have much slower cornering speeds.

If you haven't tried FC (or other sims) with a wheel, you're in the opposite situation from me, because I haven't tried FC (or any other PS2/3 racer) with a controller - I would never presume to compare how these different games feel with a pad.

The strange thing about FC is that it is an "arcade" looking game with surprisingly realistic (although admittedly imperfect) physics. GT5P, on the other hand, may be the most "realistic" looking game out there, but it still has some serious flaws in its physics.

 

[jjaisli]

...The cornering speeds have nothing to do with the vehicles being race cars, because theyre stupid in FC with every vehicle, which also includes road legal cars and i already played enough sims with race cars and watched enough motorsport to know what a "race car" (stupid term there are so many different race cars out there...) is capable of....

In truth, this proves 'absolutely nothing' but I think at least it shows the 'cornering speed' is similar. One also has to account for the fact that the camera in the real Ferrari F430 is fixed and the video in the game 'jumps' when the car hits the curbs.

I don't mean to suggest that the physics in FC:TP are just like the 'real thing'. But I think in many ways they are closer to real life than GT5P. And in general, I think your observation above is very off base and real world numbers prove this. I do agree the 'ugly' interior visuals though.

 

[G.T.Ace]

A week is not long enough IMO. When I bought FC, I was, at first, ready to return it I was so disappointed with it . I stuck with it & after a while began to feel it was "OK". Then I began to feel it was pretty good. Finally, I have to come to think is very good.

Well if a week playing a racing game is not enough to judge its physics i dont know i you could ever judge a racing games physics....
I also didnt say FC is a bad game or anything, i think the opposite, especially coming from a relative small dev team. But i just diasagree with all the comments here praising its physics.

I remember thinking the cars cornered "too fast' in FC. Perhaps they do. However, all the cars you mentioned are "race cars". What that means is they have very sticky tires (unlike GT5P, there is no option to switch tires) & significant downforce. The "street cars" in FC have much slower cornering speeds.

No not all cars i mentioned were race cars, the F50 isnt and like i also said i drove a some more, including road cars and it was still unrealistic.

If you haven't tried FC (or other sims) with a wheel, you're in the opposite situation from me, because I haven't tried FC (or any other PS2/3 racer) with a controller - I would never presume to compare how these different games feel with a pad.

The strange thing about FC is that it is an "arcade" looking game with surprisingly realistic (although admittedly imperfect) physics. GT5P, on the other hand, may be the most "realistic" looking game out there, but it still has some serious flaws in its physics.

Yes GT5P has flaws in the physics, but way less than FC.

@jjaisli: This video shows nothing except that you dont need alot of steering in FC to drive through the corners. I also mentioned that the F430 is better simulated than other cars in the game. The best example i can give you is the 512. Its so easy to drive, almost zero oversteering. You steer left, the car goes left, you steer right, the car goes right. Theres no indication that this is a V12 (not sure about the 12 lol) mid-engine monster with rear wheel drive.

And again: Im not saying FC is bad, its a great racing game and im really looking forward to SuperCar Challenge (im in the Beta), but GT5P (while still far from perfect) beats it in the realism department physics wise.

EDIT:

I think your observation above is very off base and real world numbers prove this.

Btw. could you explain this a bit more?

 

[jjaisli]

@jjaisli: This video shows nothing except that you dont need alot of steering in FC to drive through the corners. I also mentioned that the F430 is better simulated than other cars in the game. The best example i can give you is the 512. Its so easy to drive, almost zero oversteering. You steer left, the car goes left, you steer right, the car goes right. Theres no indication that this is a V12 (not sure about the 12 lol) mid-engine monster with rear wheel drive.

And again: Im not saying FC is bad, its a great racing game and im really looking forward to SuperCar Challenge (im in the Beta), but GT5P (while still far from perfect) beats it in the realism department physics wise.

EDIT:
Btw. could you explain this a bit more?

Well, keep in mind the 512M is a pure racing car. Sure it's early 1970s technology but compared to many of the other cars in FC, it has a lot of downforce, not to mention very wide racing tires. So it has the benefit of both mechanical and aerodynamic grip that many other cars don't. You can easily take Blanchimont at Spa flat out without lifting or correcting your line--something you can't do in many of the cars in this game. But try driving this car at Infineon or VIR in the wet and tell me it doesn't oversteer. It does in a very big way. In gears 1-2 if you give more than 50% throttle in anything other than a straight line the result is tons of wheel spin and oversteer. It's a beast to control at those tracks. Also keep in mind that it has a very high strung racing engine, making enormous power high in the rev range but it was relatively flat with very little torque at low RPM.

It's a shame that the video is shot from the passanger side of the real car so it's really not a direct comparison. But either way, the steering input on screen does not always match what my wheel is doing--it depends on the settings.

The videos are not synced. But if you really time from initial steering input to the apex and final exit, I think you'll see that the real car and the sim car take the corners at nearly the same speed in most cases. But as I said, this doesn't prove much. It's too hard to see and it's just not an accurate comparsion. But there are plenty of interviews where the developers of FC made a great effort and did a lot of fine tuning to match the performance of the game to the real cars. Perhaps the F430 is better simulated for this very reason, becasue there is much more real world data to extrapolate from. You can easily compare lap times from most of these tracks in the game with real Ferrari Challenge races at the same tracks.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Well, keep in mind the 512M is a pure racing car. Sure it's early 1970s technology but compared to many of the other cars in FC,

K i will quit here now....

 

[Hun200kmh]

I fail to see the point here. It's maybe my problem, but:

a) The 512M in FC is a beast, I don't find it easy to drive at all;

b) It oversteers HEAVILY (I said it, maybe it's my driving that sucks ... )

c) Very good brakes, but if the car isn't balanced ... off you go to the nearest country in Europe (or state if in a USA track);


I guess I can compare it to the GT40 we had in GT3 and GT4. Again, I find it much harder to drive, even if the 512M is a early 70's and the GT40 is a late 60's car.

 

[Biggles]

Well if a week playing a racing game is not enough to judge its physics i dont know i you could ever judge a racing games physics....

Leaving aside the difference in feel between playing these games with a pad vs. a FFB wheel, the reason it is not enough time, is because it's likely that you came to FC with many hours already spent in GT5P. The result is that there is a tendency (conscious or sub-conscious) to compare FC to GT5P & not to "real life". If GT5P is the norm for physics & if FC feels different, it must therefore be "wrong". (It is the same reason Enthusia felt so weird to many people after becoming used to GT4)

This is exactly the way I felt about FC, until I played it for many hours, & became used to the feel of the physics. Now, when I go back to GT5P, the shortcomings of GT5P's physics is very obvious to me.

Anyway, I would never argue that FC's physics are perfectly accurate - they clearly aren't, but I do think they are more accurate then GT5P's in some (significant) ways.

 

[JosVerstappen]

so biggles, I was wondering what other sim games do you play?

 

[RacerPaul]

Hi I'm no expert on game or indeed real life racing/driving physics, but i do know that i prefer the feel of the handling model in FC

It's so much more visceral than GT5P's, and i feel more involved in the races

GT5P is very sterile. I'm a fan and buyer of the entire series of GT games, but i think they need to get a bit more grimy and noisy, like real life

 

[Hun200kmh]

Hi and welcome RacerPaul! If you play online don't forget to show up at night. Currently there's a 250's (GTO/Testarossa/LM) frenzy among GTP players, but basically all cars have been used in GTP hosted lobbies 👍

 

[G.T.Ace]

Leaving aside the difference in feel between playing these games with a pad vs. a FFB wheel, the reason it is not enough time, is because it's likely that you came to FC with many hours already spent in GT5P. The result is that there is a tendency (conscious or sub-conscious) to compare FC to GT5P & not to "real life". If GT5P is the norm for physics & if FC feels different, it must therefore be "wrong". (It is the same reason Enthusia felt so weird to many people after becoming used to GT4)

This is exactly the way I felt about FC, until I played it for many hours, & became used to the feel of the physics. Now, when I go back to GT5P, the shortcomings of GT5P's physics is very obvious to me.

Anyway, I would never argue that FC's physics are perfectly accurate - they clearly aren't, but I do think they are more accurate then GT5P's in some (significant) ways.

I came to FC after spending hours and hours in several racing sims.
I dont just compare FC & GT5P, i compare FC to GT5P and Live For Speed, GT Legends and M3 Challenge (which is based of the GTR engine).
The only sims i havent tried so far are rFactor, the real GTR/RACE and iRacing (which is too expensive for me).

 

[Biggles]

so biggles, I was wondering what other sim games do you play?

I have owned (& played extensively): GT3, GT4, CM 5, Forza 1, Enthusia, F1CE, GT5P & FC. I have not played PC sims (as I have always been a Mac user), so I have never attempted to compare FC, or any other game, to PC sims.

 

[panjandrum]

I'm certainly not a race-car driver, but for 4 years now I have been an avid auto-crosser, so I do know how a number of different cars feel "on the limit" (and occasionally past it, oops! :-) During that time I've frequently raced a classic VW (a very tricky car to drive fast), a Subaru Impreza (very nice balance!), a Toyota Prius (yes, really - understeer city unless you left-foot brake), and a Mini Cooper S (definitely the "best" of the lot, but I actually prefer driving the Bug).

To me, FC (after the update), does indeed feel much closer to real life than GT5P. As you may know from other threads, I also feel that GT5P had it pretty close in the Spec I release and has botched it since (this is one of the reason's why you don't see me out there very much anymore - I've been back driving GT4 and other racing SIMS, and only playing GT5P on occasion).

One clear-cut example from real-life - when you push a real car far beyond it's front-end grip limit, it can feel like you are suddenly on ice with the front end. The steering wheel can severely (and suddenly) lighten-up. Turning the wheel becomes very easy and has little to no impact on the direction the car is going. In fact, the first time I did this in Auto-cross I was sure something in the front-end had *broken* and proceeded to drive gently off the course to check out my car. This isn't currently modeled properly in GT5P, but it is in FC. This is something which is very important because it lets you know the limit of the car. Without it GT5P doesn't feel as real as it could. I'm not trying to say that GT5P's physics are awful, they simply aren't great as they currently stand, and many other SIMS currently seem to have better physics when compared to real-life. Comparing SIMS directly to other SIMS is useful only for purposes of comparison of course, the only real test is comparing them to real-life, and in the understeer example above GT5P clearly fails.

Obviously GT5P has some other aspects which make it desirable (for one thing, the graphics are superb). It is in many ways an excellent game, but as the physics stand I don't consider it a true SIM, more of a game with some SIM-like qualities. Unfortunately the FC graphics are so awful in comparison to GT5P that I haven't finished it. I'll go back and get into it more sometime, but the graphics quality is very poor.

 

[wnffe]

The contrast between FC & GT5P is reminiscent of the difference between Enthusia & GT4. In both cases people tend to accept the GT series as being more accurate because it is the "norm" - it is what people are used to. It takes some serious time & commitment to FC (as with Enthusia) before you realise that the physics aren't "weird", but are actually attempting something that the GT series hasn't (so far).

After driving in Enthusia a lot , going back to GT4 it was very obvious what the shortcomings of GT4 were. The same is true of FC & GT5P. GT5P is a big improvement over GT4, but it still does not model some of the things that FC does (primarily weight-transfer & the on-&-off feel of tire grip. I can still really enjoy GT5P but it definitely feels like there is something lacking compared to FC

Finally, I really wish people would not post comments like: "I tried FC & I think it sucks!" unless they have spent some serious time getting used to the game (at least 20 - 30 hours).

I'm suprise there are so much good review from the North American region. I wonder whether the latest update that the EU region had never received would made any significant change to the overall feel in FC.

GT4 and Enthusia physics comparison is an absolute obvious but I would not compare it on FC with GT5P. Although, there is no doubt both have flaws on its own.

So many people argue about the weight transfer and undesteer force feedback being a big flaw in GT5P. Well, I would like to explain my very best on this arguement, but before that, we must understand that the concept of racing/ car control and act of reaching just at the limit still remain the same, which is traction feel and sensing. Like any other driving sim, there is no G-force to your body...so really, you need at least 100 or more hours in any sim to get really accustomed and start 'communicating' or 'imagining weight transfer' with your car, before feeling where that exact limit is. I bet even M. Schumacher will crash big time playing GT5P or FC in his first time or two...

What I can say is, based on my real life experience, suspension model or weight transfer in Gt5P is not a big flaw...the flaw is very minor in force feedback department but not too significant that I would consider unrealistic. It's just a matter of feel that is important...and other than physical forces to your body, visual and hearing skills still help you a lot in gaining traction sensing. If the physics flaw.. how do you explain trail braking/ threshold braking and all sort of real drifting techniques is possible in GT5P?

What I strongly think, the hidden draw down in GT5P is actually its ABS. The ABS is far too perfect. Why? Well..I have made quite a bit of observation on this so lets open this to discussion and be interactive by considering some simple experiment with me. If you don't mind..

The objective:
to prove there are actually huge amount of weight transfer and good suspension modelling in GT5P but ABS in GT5P is too good to be true it just eliminates a lot of it.

Apparatus:
Choose any standard RWD car so it is more comparable to cars in FC (Of course Ferrari would be better). To minimise human error and as it involves brake testing, I would prefer automatic transmission. Turn the ABS off, pro physics and use any reasonable tyres. try avoiding R and N1 tyres because it will be much difficult to appreciate the effects. Don't change any other settings. Take a spin to Eiger.

Situation A:
Weight transfer without any braking
Drive at moderate speed so you don't need to brake. Not too fast or else you will be either over or understeering too much and crashing. Try making the car slow down by shifting the weight transfer either lifting off throttle or aggressive steering. You will notice the weight is transferring through the downhill section is actually huge. Remember..don't brake otherwise you won't get proper results.

Situation B:
Weight transfer with ABS=1
Drive at previous speed and then race speed. Notice on the weight transfer. Can you turn in easily? Can you brake on corners? Try braking moderately... The car is very stable because ABS is working very very perfectly. Very less weight transfer indeed because weight seems to be distributed almost evenly. ..Well.. Should this happen on sharp down hill in real life? Ermm..I don't think so..

Situation C: (the most significant):
Weight transfer with ABS=0
Drive at race speed. Did you Notice any lock-up or bad understeering at corner entry? Oversteering on exit? Too much lock up?...Did you notice any dangerously weight transfer? exactly. This is actually very difficult to accomplish because you need to be very gentle on the brakes..If you still don't feel the huge weight transfer..my further observation might explain why..

Observations from Situation A,B & C:
1) Input implementation to the pedals are way too sensitive
Whatever wheel you are using, I would say the inputs to the pedals in GT5P are too much. Pressing the brake pedal at 50% makes it feel like 80% and its obviously non-linear. That explains why you are locking up so easily. That also explains why people feel its unrealistic with ABS=0. Because once lock-up, there will be no result..simple. The car is not responding to your demand thus no carrying speed to corners nor sliding or such and such it is not doing what I want so I dont want to drive it anymore...Well, calm down..

For me the solution is by doing the 'brake mod' to my G25 to get a firmer feel at 70% braking threshold. Very important to avoid lock-ups..so trail braking and thresold braking can be done consistently and effectively. I do think it is as important as getting any wheel with clucth or H gears or 900 deg wheel just to get drifting done properly. The ABS=0 is the only way forward if you are concern about forward weight shifting like it should be. You will be suprise what pro GT5P can really offers you.

2) the tyre model in GT5P is quite poor (not flaw).
In GT5P, the tyres give up really easily under braking. To achieve proper braking with ABS=0, feel is very important. As there is no ABS interfering now, the weight is mostly shifted to the front properly as it should. I know the force feedback is not greatly implemented during corner entry understeer so the only way to communicate to your car is... 'talk' and 'listen' to your tyres. As you all know..during braking, the tyre language sequence will be 'growling', 'screeching' and finally 'screaming'. So, If you want to talk and ask for it to turn, then don't wait until it is 'screaming' to you. Talk when it is in good mood.. In proper word, don't put any brake pressure when it started screeching...the tyre will just give up..making big understeer and hence locking up. So, in other way, treat your tyre with respect..like treating a woman. There is no point asking a favour when they are screaming at you. They just won't listen. Same thing, If you want your car to turn, ask them nicely when they are quiet, then it will do what you ask.

Lower down your brake bias until it suits you. Once you get accustomed with no ABS and start respecting your tyres, then you will start to see the huge weight transfer big time under braking. Minor mistakes with the brake can then really upset the balance.

Once you get the hang of it, You can then start 'trail braking' and 'threshold braking' easily. These are very hard to accomplish with ABS on without proper setting in GT5P.

Just like in real life, you don't actualy have to be on full braking without ABS. A brush of brake will do in most corners. Unless you master the threshold braking, then it'll be an advantage. I must say it took a lot of time to teach my foot for proper threshold braking in GT5P...

3) ABS in GT5P is too much.
Under braking, the front wheel seems to slow down equally as rear wheel thus making the forward weight transfer greatly reduced. No wheel lock-up at all even on nano seconds to slow down front tyres more than the rear. Perhaps that explains why driving in GT with ABS on is so smooth, yet difficult to rotate the car and very difficult to brake very late.

My Conclusion:
Weight shifting in GT5P is as good as in FC, with condition that ABS must be off or ABS=0. Nothing signifficantly wrong with the physics. It's just feel that is lacking, which is the understeer FFB,which does not really bother me anyway. I would rather have more accurate oversteer FFB, which is far better implemented in GT5P. Less feel of weight transfer is simply because of too perfected ABS in the game. End.👍

 

[G.T.Ace]

I cant believe that you just, really, found the words i was always searching for.
Praise the lord, praise who- or whatever you believe in.

You get a virtual hug: *hugs*

This is exactly what i think too.