10 reasons why Ferrari Challenge is better than GT5P

[jjaisli]

My story is a little different. I'm not a big gamer. I bought a PS3 in October and it's the first game console I've owned since an Atari 2600 back in 1981. My 'gaming' days kind of ended with the Atari 8 bit/1040ST era. I just lost interest. For that mater, I'm not even really a sim racer--just an avid motorsports fan. I've been a Mac user since 1990 and as Biggles can tell you, racing sims for the Mac were few and far between. The one single exception was Feral's Total Immersion Racing. It was a pretty good sim for it's day but it's now 6+ years old and seriously long in the tooth. I've gone as far as I can go with it and then some. It pales in comparison to even Generation II games for the PS2/Xbox.

I have one friend who's a Forza 2 fanatic and another who was a big GT4/PS2 player. So I've been toying with idea of getting an Xbox360/PS2/PS3 for a few years. I just always had other priorities. When I bought the PS3, I purchased Ferrari Challenge, GT5P and F1:CE at the same time. For the first few weeks I was switching back and forth between the three. But I found the different physics and play systems were causing undue confusion and probably hindering my ability to improve and advance. Not being a regular sim player, I had a steep learning curve to overcome. So I shelved GT5 and F1 and decided to concentrate on FC:TP.

Over the last few days, I've gone back to GT5P, started from scratch, completed the A-B-C events, played it for many hours and purchased/unlocked about 3 dozen cars. So I didn't follow the normal route where I was a dedicated Grand Turismo player and looked upon FC:TP as a distraction or something to hold me over until the full version of GT arrives. I kind of came into both titles, as well as the PS3 itself, simultaneously.

As such, my experience is limited and I don't have the 100+ hours of game play that others can draw on. That said, I tend to agree with Biggles and many of his findings on the first page. I think FC is a fantastic game. And aside from a few niggling and often frustrating drawbacks, it's great to play on-line; it's private lobbies, open mics and side-by-side action is fantastic fun. I love the feel of the FFB in Ferrari Challenge. I love the feel of the weight transfer. GT5 requires a light touch. Many of the cars in FC need to be manhandled.

There's no arguing that GT5 has set the standard for photo-realistic game play. There's a level of sophistication in GT5P that's just missing in FC. After playing GT5 for a week, I played FC again last night for the first time. The first few minutes, it's cartoon like graphics, incredibly strong FFB and in-your-face action seemed overwhelming and bit odd. And I can understand how GT sim racers may initially view FC as a disjointed effort after many hours of the smooth and rich pouring cream like action of the High Speed Ring. But there's a certain visceral brutalness behind FC that's just sooo much fun and I have a tough time articulating why it appeals to me. GT5 is the high society lady. FC is like the sleazy bad girl. When you're with either one, you're having too much of a good time to think about the other.

As others have pointed out so succinctly, GT5P is a work in progress and there are many elements that are currently missing that will undoubtedly be addressed upon it's full release. FC is not a replacement for GT5 and it never will be. But right now, side by side, I think FC has arguably better physics (or at least on par) and with it's greater variety of tracks, it's perhaps just simply more fun.

 

[myke6699]

I love the feel of the FFB in Ferrari Challenge. I love the feel of the weight transfer. GT5 requires a light touch. Many of the cars in FC need to be manhandled.

To me the fact that you need to manhandle a F430 or a 575 is why FC fails. The F430 should have a light but precise steering. It would be fine had Sytem 3 rebadged the game from FC to American Muscle Car Challenge. Instead, it's Ferrari and no Ferrari should feel like that. In Prologue, you get the preciseness of the F430 but at the same time if you jump in the Tuned Corvette or better still the Ford GT LM, you'll need to manhandle those cars.

 

[jjaisli]

To me the fact that you need to manhandle a F430 or a 575 is why FC fails. The F430 should have a light but precise steering. It would be fine had Sytem 3 rebadged the game from FC to American Muscle Car Challenge. Instead, it's Ferrari and no Ferrari should feel like that. In Prologue, you get the preciseness of the F430 but at the same time if you jump in the Tuned Corvette or better still the Ford GT LM, you'll need to manhandle those cars.

No, it should NEVER be light. Precise yes, which it is. Ferraris are NOT dainty cars and never were. Ever. Especially the older cars from the 60s, 70s and even 80s. They were beasts to handle and everything from steering input to pedal feel to gear throws required a firm and concerted effort.

The only 'modern' Ferrari I've driven is a 360 Modena. And while I only drove it at relatively low speeds I can tell you that it was certainly NOT light.

 

[slicecom]

GT5 is the high society lady. FC is like the sleazy bad girl. When you're with either one, you're having too much of a good time to think about the other.

Great summary right there.

To me the fact that you need to manhandle a F430 or a 575 is why FC fails. The F430 should have a light but precise steering. It would be fine had Sytem 3 rebadged the game from FC to American Muscle Car Challenge. Instead, it's Ferrari and no Ferrari should feel like that. In Prologue, you get the preciseness of the F430 but at the same time if you jump in the Tuned Corvette or better still the Ford GT LM, you'll need to manhandle those cars.

The fact is that all sim games have MUCH too light steering as it is. If you own a car in Gran Turismo and in real life, think about how much more muscle you have to use to turn the real thing! Probably 10x as much. Therefore, I don't think heavy steering is unrealistic for any car, rather you're used to unrealistically light steering in sim games.

As for having to manhandle a car, any car driven at its limit will have to be manhandled. Look at the youtube videos of the F430 being driven hard. They're a handful!

 

[m00ndancer]

You lot just made me go and order FC. 7 days for delivery.
Price was ok, about €31 incl p&p.

 

[myke6699]

No, it should NEVER be light. Precise yes, which it is. Ferraris are NOT dainty cars and never were. Ever. Especially the older cars from the 60s, 70s and even 80s. They were beasts to handle and everything from steering input to pedal feel to gear throws required a firm and concerted effort.

The only 'modern' Ferrari I've driven is a 360 Modena. And while I only drove it at relatively low speeds I can tell you that it was certainly NOT light.

It's not dainty light but it's certainly as light as most modern performance cars. Even when I have FC FFB set to medium, I feel it's slightly heavier than what I think should the optimum steering weight. Set to Low however, I lose even more precision. My only exposure to Ferraris is the 512 Boxer and to me the steering feels very much like my Honda/Acura NSX- if you happen to have a Logitech G25 steering wheel, pick the Acura (not Honda) NSX, set the FFB to 9 and use the S1 tires and you get uncanny version of the real thing.

 

[JosVerstappen]

Great summary right there.



The fact is that all sim games have MUCH too light steering as it is

crank up you're g25 settings too 150 % then, that'll give you a workout.

 

[jjaisli]

It's not dainty light but it's certainly as light as most modern performance cars. Even when I have FC FFB set to medium, I feel it's slightly heavier than what I think should the optimum steering weight. Set to Low however, I lose even more precision. My only exposure to Ferraris is the 512 Boxer and to me the steering feels very much like my Honda/Acura NSX- if you happen to have a Logitech G25 steering wheel, pick the Acura (not Honda) NSX, set the FFB to 9 and use the S1 tires and you get uncanny version of the real thing.

It's been a few years since I drove the car so it's difficult for me to really make fully accurate comparisons. And at the time my heart rate was somewhat elevated. But I think slicecom is correct when he says that FFB in general is too light compared to most cars IRL. I can tell you as an example, the steering in my Cooper S is MUCH heavier than the settings in GT5P set to max (G25).

 

[Hun200kmh]

I think we have to separate two things, concerning FFB:

1) FFB Strengh

2) FFB implementation


About "Strengh", I think everyone has to agree that in-game wheels are much more "lighter" than the real thing. If any of you have already tried racing go-karts? You do 30 minutes of that and your arms will suffer. My "closest to racing" eperience was doing a few laps around the Estoril track with a MX5 cup car, with slicks. Even if I did it with caution and not at all at "race speed" ... that was a workout also for my arms.

Anyway, we can set the FFB strengh to our liking, both in GT5P and in FC. I prefer strong FFB (I have it set at "8" in GT5P and at "High" in FC), others prefer weaker FFB, it's just a question of choice.


What really matters, however, is how FFB is "implemented" ingame. Because the implementation is what really gives you the feel of what's happening the car. Can you feel the weight transfer? Can you feel the front tyres locking up or losing grip? Can you feel your car getting unballanced? Does grabbing the wheel give you any relevant information that the tv screen and the screeeching noise just fail to deliver?



In conclusion, what I'm trying to say is: What gives FC the edge on GT5P in the FFB issue isn't
"FC's FFB is stronger than in GT5P".

It is

"FC's FFB is better implemented than in GT5P".

This is my view, of course. Others will feel it differently.

 

[svenfendersen]

As a big Ferrari fan (not an elitist, I like all sports cars) I was very excited at the prospect of Ferrari Challenge, and I had become frustrated with GT5P's lack of variety in tracks (I want autumn ring in full HD glory!) so I pre-ordered FC for something like 30$. My initial impression of the game was very good; many more (and arguably better) tracks than GT5P, paint customization options, plus the novelty of some very under-represented Ferraris. After a few days, however, the sparkle seemed to wear off. Here are my biggest gripes:
-Tuning? GT5P also falls short in this respect, but one of the things I have always like about games like GT and Forza is tweaking every bit of your cars to maximise their potential and make them more fun. This aspect of FC sorely dissappoints.
-Load Times? It seems to take an eternity just to get through the menus to some sort of racing. It seems like I cant just sit down and play for a few minutes at a time.
-Glitches? I cant watch a replay of my race without the game freezing (and thus losing my progress when I have to shut the thing down)
-Paint Shop? Customizing the car's paint is cool, but it seems very un-intuitive, even painstaking. Forza pulled this off much better.

That being said, I do think that FC is comparable to GT5P, and it is certainly better than every Test Drive/Need for Speed/PGR game ever made. The thing that makes me choose GT5 is the overall level of polish and feeling of quality. I find it ironic that GT5P (a big demo) seems to be a more complete game than FC. Thoughts?

 

[jjaisli]

I think this is a pretty fair assessment and I generally agree with you. But a few comments:

-Tuning? GT5P also falls short in this respect, but one of the things I have always like about games like GT and Forza is tweaking every bit of your cars to maximise their potential and make them more fun. This aspect of FC sorely dissappoints.

I would like to see more tuning options as well. But, the LACK of tuning is a part of what makes the on-line racing in FC so great. Many also lament not being able to race different model cars together. But it does create a very level playing field. If somebody is faster than you, it's all down to driving skill. So I would like to see more tuning options but not on-line.

-Glitches? I cant watch a replay of my race without the game freezing (and thus losing my progress when I have to shut the thing down)

This was addressed and fixed in the last patch, over a month ago. The only issue with the replay is that it often does make it to the end of the race and you suddenly see your car crash out when in reality you may have finished. But it should NOT cause the game to freeze and if yours is freezing there may be another problem. Have you updated/played the game since Nov 18th?

-Paint Shop? Customizing the car's paint is cool, but it seems very un-intuitive, even painstaking.

I'm not a big fan of the editor either. But Take a look at this link and you can see some images of what other people have been able to do with the editor. I think it's very, very impressive work. But yes, the tools to do it could be improved.

 

[Zer0]

The fact is that all sim games have MUCH too light steering as it is. If you own a car in Gran Turismo and in real life, think about how much more muscle you have to use to turn the real thing! Probably 10x as much. Therefore, I don't think heavy steering is unrealistic for any car, rather you're used to unrealistically light steering in sim games.

As for having to manhandle a car, any car driven at its limit will have to be manhandled. Look at the youtube videos of the F430 being driven hard. They're a handful!

Looks pretty much my G25 at 100% feedback or at times even lighter.

 

[Biggles]

As Hun has said it's not about the weight of the FFB, it's about the implementation of the FFB.

There's no question that GT5P is a much more polished presentation in every way. But FC has come up with a FFB feel that is different from any other game that I've tried - more physical & more intuitive. In comparison GT5P feels rather cold & cerebral.

The one-make car races (no EVO, no GT-R to deal with) & lack of tuning has also resulted in much closer, more exciting online races, even though the number of racers participating is much smaller. Hopefully, that will change with more GTPers trying the game a a result of this thread - which was my original intention.

 

[arvin charles]

I'm enjoying Ferrari Challenge so far, even though I'm playing a lowly PS2 version (required less $$). I LOVE the track selection! And of course, the cars are awesome, but then again, I've always loved Ferraris (who doesn't?).

 

[MJH]

As Hun has said it's not about the weight of the FFB, it's about the implementation of the FFB.

There's no question that GT5P is a much more polished presentation in every way. But FC has come up with a FFB feel that is different from any other game that I've tried - more physical & more intuitive. In comparison GT5P feels rather cold & cerebral.

The one-make car races (no EVO, no GT-R to deal with) & lack of tuning has also resulted in much closer, more exciting online races, even though the number of racers participating is much smaller. Hopefully, that will change with more GTPers trying the game a a result of this thread - which was my original intention.

be carefull what you wish for, because the servers will boot players if you have anything approaching half a room full of players.

 

[Hun200kmh]

be carefull what you wish for, because the servers will boot players if you have anything approaching half a room full of players.

Matt, don't be so negative. The test was carried out, you were a part of it and I thank you for that.

So, if by "half a room" you mean "half a 16 players room" you are correct, 16 player lobbies are unstable.

But don't forget that the "test" we conducted was even more ambitious than what GT5P gives us. Like this:

a) 16 player World Event lobby (no such thing in GT5P. In fact, no WE in PRO mode)
b) with voice chat (no such thing in GT5P)


8 player lobbies work fine, however, and 8 players is more than enough to have fun, as you know also from GT5P.

 

[MJH]

Matt, don't be so negative. The test was carried out, you were a part of it and I thank you for that.

So, if by "half a room" you mean "half a 16 players room" you are correct, 16 player lobbies are unstable.

But don't forget that the "test" we conducted was even more ambitious than what GT5P gives us. Like this:

a) 16 player World Event lobby (no such thing in GT5P. In fact, no WE in PRO mode)
b) with voice chat (no such thing in GT5P)


8 player lobbies work fine, however, and 8 players is more than enough to have fun, as you know also from GT5P.

when we went for more than 8 player lobbies, people got kicked every time, the worst being when only 2 people finished the race. Also we never tried anything near 16 player lobbies. What was the biggest lobby we had? The voice chat didn't work at all, apart from a few mumbles from someone which sounded as clear as a fart in a bath. Plus lag is guaranteed in every race in fc. P.s. You need to empty your pm box hun lol.

 

[Lofasz]

Wait, you guys have voice chat working, in FC?

I have the Bluetooth mic/earpiece thingy, how are you guys connecting by voice?

I've just gotten the game recently, and haven't played it online yet. Sounds like it will be a lot of fun.

 

[MJH]

Wait, you guys have voice chat working, in FC?

I have the Bluetooth mic/earpiece thingy, how are you guys connecting by voice?

I've just gotten the game recently, and haven't played it online yet. Sounds like it will be a lot of fun.

i have never experienced it working properly, see above.

 

[Hun200kmh]

when we went for more than 8 player lobbies, people got kicked every time, the worst being when only 2 people finished the race. Also we never tried anything near 16 player lobbies. What was the biggest lobby we had? The voice chat didn't work at all, apart from a few mumbles from someone which sounded as clear as a fart in a bath. Plus lag is guaranteed in every race in fc.

Again, we took the game to the redline, the purpose was exactly to know how far it would go. The biggest lobby had 11 players, the race were most finished was Silverstone (9 players). And - again - 8 players lobbies DO work fine.

About the lag you mention, it's true we usually get a bit if that (it has been mentioned in almost every page in this thread, even the OP mentions that) and it's true it is annoying to have it. However, it's not unbearable and we can have (in fact, we're having) many pleasant close races online in FC.

In short: FC has it's own flaws/issues, yes. Nobody is trying to conceal them (it would be futile anyway) and nobody is exactly a FC "fanboy".

However, it is a very good racing sim game.



EDIT:

Wait, you guys have voice chat working, in FC?

I have the Bluetooth mic/earpiece thingy, how are you guys connecting by voice?

I've just gotten the game recently, and haven't played it online yet. Sounds like it will be a lot of fun.

If the PS3 recognizes it, FC will recognize it also. However, clear voice chat, from my experience, only works properly with few players in-lobby (it works fine with lobbies of six players, I have experienced that ... but I'm stioll unsure how it works in fully filled 8 player lobbies).

 

[thugbear2005]

Has anyone done any FC drift videos?

 

[Hun200kmh]

Yes, pino-r did, never searched for others.

 

[k1lo5]

best thing about ferrari challenge, is that i got more $$$ back on trading it in, then what i paid for it. GT5 all the way

 

[jjaisli]

i have never experienced it working properly, see above.

Matt, I don't think the voice chat is bad with 5-6 people or less. Even if you talk on the phone with multiple parties connected you can't figure out what's going on with more than 4-5 people talking at once. Granted it does not work with 10+ people as we found out. But I also think what partially contributes to the problem are people who don't turn down the game volume when they have their headsets on so there's just too much distortion.

FWIW, I was on-line the other day and entered a lobby with 2 other players. When we finished the race, there were an additional 4 players waiting, at least 3 of whom were using headsets. We went another round and then the host switched tracks several times. We ran at least 5 races in a row with a 7 player lobby and (at least) 4 of us using headsets and nobody got kicked out and I could hear the other players very clearly. Granted the races were only run for 5 minutes. But I think with 8 players or less the on-line is pretty stable.

I also wanted to mention that on Sunday night I created a private lobby for one of my friends who recently bought Ferrari Challenge. I know he and I both have very fast internet connections. He's not close to me (~850 km) but we're on the same continent. I was amazed at how smooth the on-line play was. There was very little stuttering and it only happened when I was literally right on top of him. But either way it was much less than I normally experienced. So I certainly don't want to suggest that there isn't a problem or there's no room for improvement but:
- I'm beginning to think the latency problem is largely due to people's connection/speed.
- The game is certainly playable on-line with up to 8 people.
- The headsets do work with smaller lobbies.

 

[Zer0]

As Hun has said it's not about the weight of the FFB, it's about the implementation of the FFB.

If we speak about realistic steering then is about both, and certainly an F430 not need much muscle to steer, look very gentle.

As suggested on this thread a realistic steering would be the same as a truck without assisted steering...

 

[Hun200kmh]

If we speak about realistic steering then is about both, and certainly an F430 not need much muscle to steer, look very gentle.

As suggested on this thread a realistic steering would be the same as a truck without assisted steering...

I don't get what you're trying to say. You can set FFB Strengh to your liking, if you think it is more realistic to have it "light", you just choose that setting.

However, be it strong or weak setting, how does the wheel behave and inform you about what's going on with the front wheels and the car as a whole?

There is one very simple example about this.

This is the situation: You come to a corner, brake, turn in, but the car understeers on entry. The front tyres lose grip - not completely, because the car still turns, a bit wider but it turns - and they glide a bit until the balance and momentum of the car allows them to grip again.


How does FFB implementation work in this very common situation?

a) in GT5P you hear the screeching noise of the tyres, you see in you screen that the car is understeering, but the FFB remains more or less constant, and if you turn the wheel a bit more the strengh of it will increase, even if the front tyres lost even a bit more of grip because you did it.

b) in FC, the wheel becomes suddenly lighter, almost detached, and when (eventually) the front tyres regain grip it also becomes suddenly heavier.


Pick your choice about what is more realistic. I don't care what others think of it, we're all entitled to our own opinions and "feel".

My point is just this: "FFB Strengh" settings can be changed. "FFB implementation" cannot be changed, so it is distinctive from one game to another. And "FFB implementation" in GT5P is very different from "FFB implementation" in FC.

 

[Zer0]

I don't get what you're trying to say. You can set FFB Strengh to your liking, if you think it is more realistic to have it "light", you just choose that setting.

I'm not comparing both games.

I copy this quote again:

The fact is that all sim games have MUCH too light steering as it is. If you own a car in Gran Turismo and in real life, think about how much more muscle you have to use to turn the real thing! Probably 10x as much. Therefore, I don't think heavy steering is unrealistic for any car, rather you're used to unrealistically light steering in sim games.

As for having to manhandle a car, any car driven at its limit will have to be manhandled. Look at the youtube videos of the F430 being driven hard. They're a handful!

 

[MasterGT]

It's nice to hear that no-one is having the same wheel problem with this game that I have, but it doesn't help me much.

I use a recent 200* wheel, the Logitech EX, and it doesn't seem to work with FC. When I turn the wheel, the screen image of the wheel seems to turn about the right amount, but I feel the wheel turns about 2 to 3 times as much, therefore the feeling/feedback I get is useless at controlling the car. It is really difficult just trying to stay on the track, let alone trying to win a race.

Yes, I fiddled with the settings, but it wasn't enough.

Has anyone played FC with an EX and had a "normal" experience?

 

[DubVipers]

i guess it's an all Ferrari game, that needs to be added to my Ferrari Collection =]

 

[750F-RM]

Has anyone played FC with an EX and had a "normal" experience?

hi mine is ok with the ff on high, wheel sensitivity on low, and pedals on medium

i'll confess to having to tcs and abs on 3, but i don't use asm

as has been mentioned in this thread, i don't doubt that gt5p is more refined in feel

fc however has a visceral touch that's great fun 👍